Guild Wars 2

You state arenanet, that you want all content to be fun and encouraged to explore all kinds of different areas, and not having to repeat the same content over and over with very little bursts of reward or fun, as quoted today with your latest article.

And yet.

Here we are, farming the first boss of Arah because 90% of parties are only going there for the tokens.

4 tokens at an average rate of 10 minutes. (You nerfed the quick second boss, rightfully so I guess.)

Oh wait, I need 330 Tokens for Chest, 1 piece of “fun reward”.

Its the most illogical grinding mechanic in dungeons to date, what a boring concept, NOTHING good drops from the later bosses either so it makes going to them pointless, the token amount doesn’t increase, and overall it is just too slow to complete the dungeon.

To make it worse? Instead of being able to go and complete all the dungeon exploration modes, if I want ANY armour let alone the one I really like (Arah Exotic) you FORCE me to go to that instance because you have seperate tokens for everything instance, a completely and utterly HORRIBLE idea.

You really had no plan for end game did you?

The rest of the game is great, but I am now sat here thinking “You should of just looked at World of Warcraft’s end-game and copied that BUT with your personal innovations mixed in”.

Because lets face it, they do it best. and you currently have done one of the worst grinds in many years.

Surely I am not the only one that feels this way? This token grind is horrendous and the whole way the end-game is setup discourages exploration, challenge and is overall just lame.

just copy and paste this in to one of the other “dungeons make me sad” topics and delete this

I think this topic belongs to:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons

And there are already multiple threads with this current topic.

It’s annoying I can’t even find a group doing anything but farm Arah like this. Dungeon rewards need to be better, ideally they would scale so you get say 5 tokens for the first boss, 10 for the second, 20 for the third. Just playing the game the intended way should be rewarding.

Yes sadly if there is a fast way to play an MMO these days, the kids will find it, if they can’t they will cry loudly and stamp their feet about it. If it were me there would be an xp loss at death and would take literally 6 months to get to level 80. I’m tired of seeing so much rushing and the need for instant gratification from children in every single MMO released, and even more tired reading about it over and over in forums. Blizzard set a precedence of caving in to a whiny playerbase and dumbing down their game to suit the current generation of players. Now the players expect it everywhere.

Salt.4621:

Yes sadly if there is a fast way to play an MMO these days, the kids will find it, if they can’t they will cry loudly and stamp their feet about it. If it were me there would be an xp loss at death and would take literally 6 months to get to level 80. I’m tired of seeing so much rushing and the need for instant gratification from children in every single MMO released, and even more tired reading about it over and over in forums. Blizzard set a precedence of caving in to a whiny playerbase and dumbing down their game to suit the current generation of players. Now the players expect it everywhere.

I’m sorry to hear that you value a game so highly that you like being painfully whipped, bound and gagged to the point where you see that as fun, but the rest of the world doesn’t see it that way and we are certainly not kids, we are adults that know this masochist game design has no place in modern standard, especially considering this game is far from advertised as such and I question why you are here in the first place.

1) I have not complained about difficulty.
2) Blizzard’s Heroics and End-Game still requires more effort and tactics than this, sorry if you don’t like to hear that, and even its challenge mode is better done than the dungeon scaling in this. (Mists of Pandaria)

I am complaining about the lack of any kind of reward, that is not being an instant-gratification kid. IF you feel cool for spending all day grinding the first boss of these instances is for one piece of gear than good for you, I however live in reality.

If you play for item rewards, every game you ever play will be a grind forever.

Instead, try playing in a fashion that maintains as much dopamine in your brain as possible.

Then no game will ever feel like a grind.

Ideally, there should be continual diminishing returns on the dungeon awards you can earn from a single boss in a day (eg, 4 for first kill, 2 for second, 1 for third, 0 for any after that). It would encourage people to tackle the entire dungeon versus grinding and make it easier for players playing for fun to find groups.

Fleshgrinder.6724:

If you play for item rewards, every game you ever play will be a grind forever.

Instead, try playing in a fashion that maintains as much dopamine in your brain as possible.

Then no game will ever feel like a grind.

.. Gaming is meant to be rewarding, and its factual that while challenge is it’s own reward, other intensives are alot more stimulating to have. hence why most of the player base wants these tokens.

Your philosophy is flawed because of this, you can’t change the way the human brain works, if I am going to fight my way through the same dungeon, and if its so challenging that it takes a few hours I SHOULD be able to get a piece of gear at least every 3-4 runs TOPS. not 60-hour grinds long after the challenge is gone just to get ONE piece of gear.

I can’t believe what I am reading….. the level of defence of a poorly designed end-game system is just too laughable. considering it goes against the philosophy of the entire game thus far.

Dungeon gear is not meant for everyone. – ANet even stated in one of their promotional videos, that there will be elite exclusive dungeon crawler reward gear, that only those who truly mastered one given dungeon can have. They simply followed this until the release. And mastering a dungeon is different than “having fun”.

Blaeys.3102:

Ideally, there should be continual diminishing returns on the dungeon awards you can earn from a single boss in a day (eg, 4 for first kill, 2 for second, 1 for third, 0 for any after that). It would encourage people to tackle the entire dungeon versus grinding and make it easier for players playing for fun to find groups.

No, that would make the grind even worse. This isn’t world of warcraft raiding, we shouldn’t have to wait for a “timer” to have fun.

The easiest fix is to

1) Lower the ammount of tokens required, it really is too much at the moment, even 50% less seems a legit ammount of time.

2) make one universal dungeon token, so we can go around exploring different dungeons, aim for “dungeon master” AND be rewarded with a gear set WE LIKE THE LOOK OF MOST.

Simply changes that fit the philosophy of this game all in one.

zogrim.6925:

Dungeon gear is not meant for everyone. – ANet even stated in one of their promotional videos, that there will be elite exclusive dungeon crawler reward gear, that only those who truly mastered one given dungeon can have. They simply followed this until the release. And mastering a dungeon is different than “having fun”.

So tell me why the hordes of full Arah Exotic players I see around me at the moment who have simply killed the first 2 bosses over and over (or now first boss) have somehow “mastered a difficult dungeon” have achieved anything other than their time stolen by repeating mindless easy content?

On paper, and in your heads you think its working , but it isn’t.

Birdy.4816:

I can’t believe what I am reading….. the level of defence of a poorly designed end-game system is just too laughable. considering it goes against the philosophy of the entire game thus far.

The philosophy of the entire game is to give a fun and meaningful activity for everyone.
There is story, PvP, scenic environment, massive sieges, small team elite content and they also have something for those who have the time and like to grind. Yes there are people who like to grind. And they are appropriately rewarded with exclusive elite cosmetics. That gives no benefit at all except cool looks.

Birdy.4816:

Fleshgrinder.6724:

If you play for item rewards, every game you ever play will be a grind forever.

Instead, try playing in a fashion that maintains as much dopamine in your brain as possible.

Then no game will ever feel like a grind.

.. Gaming is meant to be rewarding, and its factual that while challenge is it’s own reward, other intensives are alot more stimulating to have. hence why most of the player base wants these tokens.

Your philosophy is flawed because of this, you can’t change the way the human brain works, if I am going to fight my way through the same dungeon, and if its so challenging that it takes a few hours I SHOULD be able to get a piece of gear at least every 3-4 runs TOPS. not 60-hour grinds long after the challenge is gone just to get ONE piece of gear.

I can’t believe what I am reading….. the level of defence of a poorly designed end-game system is just too laughable. considering it goes against the philosophy of the entire game thus far.

As I said, if you require reward to have fun, you’re screwed. Every game you ever play will be a grind.

I play for dopamine. If that flow ever stops, I stop playing.

If you’re still playing after the dopamine drip stops, there’s something wrong.

Fleshgrinder.6724:

Birdy.4816:

Fleshgrinder.6724:

If you play for item rewards, every game you ever play will be a grind forever.

Instead, try playing in a fashion that maintains as much dopamine in your brain as possible.

Then no game will ever feel like a grind.

.. Gaming is meant to be rewarding, and its factual that while challenge is it’s own reward, other intensives are alot more stimulating to have. hence why most of the player base wants these tokens.

Your philosophy is flawed because of this, you can’t change the way the human brain works, if I am going to fight my way through the same dungeon, and if its so challenging that it takes a few hours I SHOULD be able to get a piece of gear at least every 3-4 runs TOPS. not 60-hour grinds long after the challenge is gone just to get ONE piece of gear.

I can’t believe what I am reading….. the level of defence of a poorly designed end-game system is just too laughable. considering it goes against the philosophy of the entire game thus far.

As I said, if you require reward to have fun, you’re screwed. Every game you ever play will be a grind.

I play for dopamine. If that flow ever stops, I stop playing.

If you’re still playing after the dopamine drip stops, there’s something wrong.

So having a Gordian looks bland and basic unless I grind a supposed "Challenge (which it isnt) for 200+ hours is fun?

I mean if there was legendary gear I would understand, but the current end-game reward system really REALLY needs work.

You all complain about other mmos, their grinds and how Guild Wars 2 would make all aspects fun, I am pointing out where they have failed and suddenly its ok.

Have you seen the ammount of complaints in game and on this very forum? It is a crap end-game. how can you not see that? why would you defend it?

Its so sad, most here would willingly bash WoW for “instant gratification” (Despite having multiple more layers of difficulty and reward for everyone, which ironically this does not have.) and yet you will happily grind mindlessly for 200+ hours and claim thats good for anyone.

So bad.

Birdy.4816:

So having a Gordian looks bland and basic unless I grind a supposed "Challenge (which it isnt) for 200+ hours is fun?

I mean if there was legendary gear I would understand, but the current end-game reward system really REALLY needs work.

You all complain about other mmos, their grinds and how Guild Wars 2 would make all aspects fun, I am pointing out where they have failed and suddenly its ok.

Have you seen the ammount of complaints in game and on this very forum? It is a crap end-game. how can you not see that? why would you defend it?

Its so sad, most here would willingly bash WoW for “instant gratification” (Despite having multiple more layers of difficulty and reward for everyone, which ironically this does not have.) and yet you will happily grind mindlessly for 200+ hours and claim thats good for anyone.

So bad.

I complain about other MMOs when they’re not fun. The grind isn’t why they’re not fun, it’s the extremely boring combat.

I.do.not.care.about.rewards.

I care about dopamine.

I couldn’t care less about gear, it would be physically impossible for me to care less.

I only care about my brain filling up with happy juice.

No endgame in MMO history, GW2 included, has produced dopamine in my brain.

It’s beating up a training dummy for a shinny digital skin, it’s pretty much the antithesis of fun.

See, you seem to think there’s some way to fix this.

What you fail to understand is that dungeon running is inherently unfun and grindy.

It can’t be fixed, it’s the nature of PvE.

Every MMO in history has had bad PvE, because there’s no such thing as good PvE.

That’s the problem, and why these threads pop up on every MMO forum.

People keep doing PvE and not realizing they aren’t enjoying what they do, then they figure it out and think it’s “X game has bad PvE” instead of the true statement of “PvE is a bad game mechanic.”

Oh my god.

If you don’t like “end-game” then stop playing. As I said, they wanted to appeal for those like doing repetitious hard tasks.

No one said, that GW2 will have 0 grind. Grind will make items more valued, thus giving the one who does the grinding a certain level of achievement. And here it is the ability to wear something.

The game is not revolving around endgame, there is no such a thing. There is no subscription fee, you CAN leave and COME BACK whenever you want. There is no need to give rewards for those who stay. Stay if you like, leave if you feel bored, come back if you feel like playing again.

zogrim.6925:

Oh my god.

If you don’t like “end-game” then stop playing. As I said, they wanted to appeal for those like doing repetitious hard tasks.

No one said, that GW2 will have 0 grind. Grind will make items more valued, thus giving the one who does the grinding a certain level of achievement. And here it is the ability to wear something.

The game is not revolving around endgame, there is no such a thing. There is no subscription fee, you CAN leave and COME BACK whenever you want. There is no need to give rewards for those who stay. Stay if you like, leave if you feel bored, come back if you feel like playing again.

To the guy before you – fine I don’t care if you don’t like rewards, ALOT of people do, I thougght “this was the mmo for everyone that likes and hates mmos” funny, to live up to that you have to actually appeal to more people, not just grind aholics.

Your all posting excuses. when arenanet has even stated that their goal NOW onwards IS the end-game. I am suggesting to steer it in the right direction, what we don’t need is a bunch of apologist dismissing this kind of comment because they love the game so much up the rear that they will make an excuse for content that mayaswell be there.

They have a business model in place that encourages people to stay A LONG TIME (Gem store) like any other free2play MMO (only with this they have the added bonus of ridiculous box price.) so stop making these fanboy excuses. They know it,we know it, the more people they keep playing, the more profit, THIS IS NOT GUILD WARS 1.

Even advertised to appeal to people who like MMOs. Guess what the most popular and liked aspect is of modern MMOs? OH IS IT THE END-GAME? Lets ignore that large majority because some people like the journey more.

Or here is a better idea for both their financial success and consumer happiness, FOCUS ON BOTH? OMG SHOCKING CONCEPT I KNOW!

Yes, the journey and the little additions are great, and yes its probably not feasable for them to have developed all this AND focused on end-game. I am merely pointing out the current big flaws in that section which they didn’t have time to do and will no focus on.

But please, don’t defend mediocrity. fact of the matter here is, Guild Wars 2 has accelled in many areas that other mmos even WoW have failed in. BUT there is one aspect that it falls far behind in. its simple logic really.

If they now focus on the end-game, even making it nearly a clone of WoW’s (but obviously with this games combat ect) then it literally will be the MMO for everyone.

Currently that is nowhere near the case and as soon as your 80 its “… oh….”

Only fools would believe that its not beneficial to them or us not to ensure these things get done, im sure they know it themselves.

Birdy.4816:

2) make one universal dungeon token, so we can go around exploring different dungeons, aim for “dungeon master” AND be rewarded with a gear set WE LIKE THE LOOK OF MOST.

Except that, with this in place, people will simply farm the easiest dungeon out of the lot and the rest will gather cobwebs as not a foot is set in them.

Fiennes.9568:

Birdy.4816:

2) make one universal dungeon token, so we can go around exploring different dungeons, aim for “dungeon master” AND be rewarded with a gear set WE LIKE THE LOOK OF MOST.

Except that, with this in place, people will simply farm the easiest dungeon out of the lot and the rest will gather cobwebs as not a foot is set in them.

Because the loot in all the dungeons is so bad at the moment, which is another aspect that needs fixing.

This problem didn’t exist in world of warcraft because the dungeons actually gave things worthwhile alongside a universal token.

The dungeon grind for what you get from them is EXCELLENT and PERFECT in the amount of time it takes to get completely decked out. I’ve said it before and I’ll keep saying it some things in these games should take MONTHS and even YEARS to obtain just like in EVERQUEST.

Maybe the OP has a point. Maybe the OP should help other game developers who might listen. Maybe Capcom will listen to the OP and adjust the token rate for beating Seth in Street Fighter 4. Come on. NO ONE and I mean NO ONE players Street Fighter 4 for the fun of playing SF4. It’s clearly for the XP, gear rewards you get for winning. So yeah. SF4 better gear rewards? huh. Op’s got a point. Capcom’s SF4 just does a better job.

ravinhood.3981:

The dungeon grind for what you get from them is EXCELLENT and PERFECT in the amount of time it takes to get completely decked out. I’ve said it before and I’ll keep saying it some things in these games should take MONTHS and even YEARS to obtain just like in EVERQUEST.

Says that yet people have these sets by playing it challenge less for hours on end.

but as the decline of people outside dungeons shows, there is nothing good or worthwhile about doing it.

Birdy.4816:

ravinhood.3981:

The dungeon grind for what you get from them is EXCELLENT and PERFECT in the amount of time it takes to get completely decked out. I’ve said it before and I’ll keep saying it some things in these games should take MONTHS and even YEARS to obtain just like in EVERQUEST.

Says that yet people have these sets by playing it challenge less for hours on end.

but as the decline of people outside dungeons shows, there is nothing good or worthwhile about doing it.

There will be other things as the content doesn’t end with GW2 first chapter.

jayderyu.3751:

Maybe the OP has a point. Maybe the OP should help other game developers who might listen. Maybe Capcom will listen to the OP and adjust the token rate for beating Seth in Street Fighter 4. Come on. NO ONE and I mean NO ONE players Street Fighter 4 for the fun of playing SF4. It’s clearly for the XP, gear rewards you get for winning. So yeah. SF4 better gear rewards? huh. Op’s got a point. Capcom’s SF4 just does a better job.

Comparing a 1 on 1 fighter to an online-RPG and trying to be sarcastic and funny….. complete fail.

Good job people like you are and the other apoligists are not in charge of mmo development…. nobody would play the genre to play the same dungeons over and over again “purely because its the most fun im pretending to have in my life with no reward”

Denial.

I agree, setting a generic dungeon token that can be used to buy whichever dungeon set you want would be the way to go. Or at least have 2 sets of tokens, 1 for the lower lvl dungeons and one for the higher, like 30-60 gets one token and 60-80 get another. Maybe make it so that the higher lvl dungeon token can get any dungeon gear they want.

while you are at it I would like to obtain pvp rank 80 in 2 weeks please

scratch.6187:

I agree, setting a generic dungeon token that can be used to buy whichever dungeon set you want would be the way to go. Or at least have 2 sets of tokens, 1 for the lower lvl dungeons and one for the higher, like 30-60 gets one token and 60-80 get another. Maybe make it so that the higher lvl dungeon token can get any dungeon gear they want.

No, no I don’t like this idea. You have to earn/work for EACH set of gear in each instance so no generic tokens. Work long hard hours/days/weeks/months and even years because what else do you have to do in the game?

You would still have to work at it to get it. Not like you can get 300 tokens and buy all the gear at once. If you need 300 for the chest piece alone and you can get 8 different chest pieces you are still spending alot of time just to get one piece for each set.

Dallas.2536:

while you are at it I would like to obtain pvp rank 80 in 2 weeks please

Why not, apparently you apologists are playing for fun so why do the grinds need to be so long and why does it matter what we wear over other people?

Hypocrites to the highest degree.

Everyone has to come to the realization that all MMORPGs are finite. This means that at some point, you will run out of “new” stuff to do, and have to repeat stuff you have already done over and over again.

There is quite literally, no way around this. The rate of content consumption vastly exceeds the rate of content generation. You will run out of content.

So either find something in the game that you enjoy doing repeatedly…or just stop playing for now, do something else, and come back when new content is added.

Creslin.1758:

Everyone has to come to the realization that all MMORPGs are finite. This means that at some point, you will run out of “new” stuff to do, and have to repeat stuff you have already done over and over again.

There is quite literally, no way around this. The rate of content consumption vastly exceeds the rate of content generation. You will run out of content.

So either find something in the game that you enjoy doing repeatedly…or just stop playing for now, do something else, and come back when new content is added.

…. good business model.

Why make this excuse when every other mmo at least tries to make repeatable content worhwhile where as this game currently doesn’t

mind boggeled at these responses. they are missing a major part of the MMO and because the rose-tinted goggles are still in place these kind of excuses fly out of the woodwork that would simply not be accepted in any other game.

Its madness.

Agree 100% with the OP. I can say all my friends also agree, as we have all stopped playing. I’ll pick the game back up in a few months and hope there is something more rewarding in PVE after 80.

Borderlands 2 on Tuesday, will keep me busy for a few weeks. Probably try it again after that…

Creslin.1758:

Everyone has to come to the realization that all MMORPGs are finite. This means that at some point, you will run out of “new” stuff to do, and have to repeat stuff you have already done over and over again.

There is quite literally, no way around this. The rate of content consumption vastly exceeds the rate of content generation. You will run out of content.

So either find something in the game that you enjoy doing repeatedly…or just stop playing for now, do something else, and come back when new content is added.

Not true. If you make content challenging enough, but also fun, it can take longer to clear all the content than it does to make it.

WoW has done it many times. If you want to clear out hard modes, you need to be in a very good guild and play almost every night. There is always something to work on, and it always feels rewarding because each boss drops upgrades for the guild. WoW’s PVE endgame is vastly better than GW2’s PVE endgame. However, GW2 has done EVERYTHING else better. It sad though, because when it comes down to it PVE Endgame is the most important part in my opinion.

I don’t play WoW anymore, but I got bored of GW2 very fast after reaching 80. It took me a good 4 years to get bored of WoW’s end game. There was always something to do that felt rewarding.

Tyrindor.5049:

Agree 100% with the OP. I can say all my friends also agree, as we have all stopped playing. I’ll pick the game back up in a few months and hope there is something more rewarding in PVE after 80.

Borderlands 2 on Tuesday, will keep me busy for a few weeks. Probably try it again after that…

Creslin.1758:

Everyone has to come to the realization that all MMORPGs are finite. This means that at some point, you will run out of “new” stuff to do, and have to repeat stuff you have already done over and over again.

There is quite literally, no way around this. The rate of content consumption vastly exceeds the rate of content generation. You will run out of content.

So either find something in the game that you enjoy doing repeatedly…or just stop playing for now, do something else, and come back when new content is added.

Not true. If you make content challenging enough, but also fun, it can take longer to clear all the content than it does to make it.

WoW has done it many times. If you want to clear out hard modes, you need to be in a very good guild and play almost every night. There is always something to work on, and it always feels rewarding because each boss drops upgrades for the guild. WoW’s PVE endgame is vastly better than GW2’s PVE endgame. However, GW2 has done EVERYTHING else better. It sad though, because when it comes down to it PVE Endgame is the most important part in my opinion.

I don’t play WoW anymore, but I got bored of GW2 very fast after reaching 80. It took me a good 4 years to get bored of WoW’s end game. There was always something to do that felt rewarding.

And I got bored of WoW’s endgame by the time I was done Molten Core.

Just because YOU grinded a bad game longer doesn’t mean it was an objectively superior endgame. I felt PvE in WoW was horrible.

Now, to be fair, I think PvE is inherently horrible, but WoW’s was particularly bad.

It was the lack of challenge. I was the main tank AND pulling in the top 20 on DPS on 40 man raids.

That’s not fun, it’s just grind. It’s a training dummy with dance steps.

Simple…

Don’t grind them.

There’s zero reason to grind for dungeon gear besides wanting dungeon gear. If you don’t want it, don’t do it.

Birdy.4816:

Creslin.1758:

Everyone has to come to the realization that all MMORPGs are finite. This means that at some point, you will run out of “new” stuff to do, and have to repeat stuff you have already done over and over again.

There is quite literally, no way around this. The rate of content consumption vastly exceeds the rate of content generation. You will run out of content.

So either find something in the game that you enjoy doing repeatedly…or just stop playing for now, do something else, and come back when new content is added.

…. good business model.

Why make this excuse when every other mmo at least tries to make repeatable content worhwhile where as this game currently doesn’t

mind boggeled at these responses. they are missing a major part of the MMO and because the rose-tinted goggles are still in place these kind of excuses fly out of the woodwork that would simply not be accepted in any other game.

Its madness.

Whether something is or is not worthwhile is a matter of opinion. To me, the raiding and gear treadmill at the end of WoW and most other MMORPGs was never worthwhile.

In fact, the idea of having to reserve every Saturday or something to repeat a raid that I already did, just so I can hopefully get some shiny, was so unappealing to me that I never even got to max level in any MMORPG, save AoC where I got max level and immediately quit.

GW2’s end-game actually seems much more worthwhile to me. I have tons of options of what I can do. I can go anywhere in the world because of down-leveling. I can do challenging explorable dungeons, of which there are basically 24 options. I can do world versus world and fight for my server. Or I can do structured PvP, which is almost a game in and of itself.

I seriously fail to see how this is less worthwhile than doing the same raids over and over again. Opinion, I know, but still.

Its like how they are on the GAME LAUNCHER saying about End Game Reimagined. Im sorry I see right through that. It was simply easier not to program solid end game or create more of it so they say its for the players benefit. So the dungeon grind is just a lame bit that is totally against everything said in that LAUNCHER thread.

Makes no sense, and I dont believe it…the grind is as bad as any other game it just lacks more core content, I would assume it was a NEED TO RELEASE FASTER kinda thing.

Zombius.1243:

Its like how they are on the GAME LAUNCHER saying about End Game Reimagined. Im sorry I see right through that. It was simply easier not to program solid end game or create more of it so they say its for the players benefit. So the dungeon grind is just a lame bit that is totally against everything said in that LAUNCHER thread.

Makes no sense, and I dont believe it…the grind is as bad as any other game it just lacks more core content, I would assume it was a NEED TO RELEASE FASTER kinda thing.

lolwat

Did you even play Guild Wars?

Is it a prerequisite to play the first in a series of games to have an opinon about the sequal?

I feel arguing about this is arbitrary, so I will refrain from devolving this matter further.

Simply an opinion.

Zombius.1243:

Is it a prerequisite to play the first in a series of games to have an opinon about the sequal?

I feel arguing about this is arbitrary, so I will refrain from devolving this matter further.

Simply an opinion.

When you are making claims that simply aren’t true based on having not the foggiest clue of the predecessor, yes, it would be nice if you had the foggiest clue about the predecessor.

GW2 challenge=Finish the dungeon=reward: fun + cool looking armor + run it again in a different mode that is still challenging. go back to WE’s and exporing.

WoW challenge=Get the best gear=reward: gear that makes the rest of the game trivial and boring + Stand around in the Org/Sw Lobby.

GW2 Challenge =/= get the best gear. you are playing the right game the wrong way friend.

Apathy.6430:

Zombius.1243:

Is it a prerequisite to play the first in a series of games to have an opinon about the sequal?

I feel arguing about this is arbitrary, so I will refrain from devolving this matter further.

Simply an opinion.

When you are making claims that simply aren’t true based on having not the foggiest clue of the predecessor, yes, it would be nice if you had the foggiest clue about the predecessor.

Maybe you didnt read my post I said it was an opinion. Your calling it a claim. I would like to add that your Need to know about the original is irrelevant why would they put the effort out to create a true sequal rather than another expansion.

But feel free to come back at me with a response that demeans my opinion due to not having 500 hours of Guild Wars 1 played…i’m done here.

PLEASE BACK ON TOPIC.

Thread shouldn’t be deleted.
What OP is focusing on is the fact that GW2 rewards players for optimizing a particular route.
If I want to get ANY rewards for doing the dungeons, instead of playing EVERY explorable mode in every dungeon, I get a MUCH larger reward if I just do the same explorable mode in the same dungeon over and over and over and over.

For people who still think GW2 doesn’t require grind, you haven’t looked at the math. They want over around 1000 tokens for exotic armor. An average run gives 25 and can take over 2 hours. That’s around 40 runs. Fourty runs doing the SAME THING OVER AND OVER.

The point is that the rewards are geared towards grinding a single mode, instead of encouraging players to go through everything.

Why didn’t they just use the dungeon-book mechanic from guild wars 1?? Well, maybe because all the developers are completely different people and don’t know anything about guild wars 1.

So they didn’t want people to feel the grind of running instances for gear, so they took the boss rewards away and force people to run 70+ runs to get the set with tokens.

IMO grinding for tokens/mentos [if anyone gets the reference] is the absolute worst type of grind there is.

That’s just my opinion. I think I’ll just leave before this devolves into a foggy arbitrary argument.

Tismo.3720:

So they didn’t want people to feel the grind of running instances for gear, so they took the boss rewards away and force people to run 70+ runs to get the set with tokens.

IMO grinding for tokens/mentos [if anyone gets the reference] is the absolute worst type of grind there is.

That’s just my opinion. I think I’ll just leave before this devolves into a foggy arbitrary argument.

+1

^^

Tismo.3720:

So they didn’t want people to feel the grind of running instances for gear, so they took the boss rewards away and force people to run 70+ runs to get the set with tokens.

IMO grinding for tokens/mentos [if anyone gets the reference] is the absolute worst type of grind there is.

That’s just my opinion. I think I’ll just leave before this devolves into a foggy arbitrary argument.

Here’s a crazy idea…don’t grind it?

If you arent’t enjoying doing the dungeon, don’t do it. Do something else. Roll another character. PvP.

Pretty simple concept. There’s literally zero reason to farm for dungeon armor besides wanting the look of dungeon armor. Whining about WANTING IT NOW just comes off as a child throwing a tantrum because they want the robot dinosaur boat.

BlueCheez.4873:

Thread shouldn’t be deleted.
What OP is focusing on is the fact that GW2 rewards players for optimizing a particular route.
If I want to get ANY rewards for doing the dungeons, instead of playing EVERY explorable mode in every dungeon, I get a MUCH larger reward if I just do the same explorable mode in the same dungeon over and over and over and over.

For people who still think GW2 doesn’t require grind, you haven’t looked at the math. They want over around 1000 tokens for exotic armor. An average run gives 25 and can take over 2 hours. That’s around 40 runs. Fourty runs doing the SAME THING OVER AND OVER.

The point is that the rewards are geared towards grinding a single mode, instead of encouraging players to go through everything.

Why didn’t they just use the dungeon-book mechanic from guild wars 1?? Well, maybe because all the developers are completely different people and don’t know anything about guild wars 1.

So? How many runs in GW1 did you do for OBSIDIAN ARMOR? (before other chapters came out) Hrmmm? Cmon I’m waiting…..taps foot impatiently.

Apathy.6430:

Tismo.3720:

So they didn’t want people to feel the grind of running instances for gear, so they took the boss rewards away and force people to run 70+ runs to get the set with tokens.

IMO grinding for tokens/mentos [if anyone gets the reference] is the absolute worst type of grind there is.

That’s just my opinion. I think I’ll just leave before this devolves into a foggy arbitrary argument.

Here’s a crazy idea…don’t grind it?

If you arent’t enjoying doing the dungeon, don’t do it. Do something else. Roll another character. PvP.

Pretty simple concept. There’s literally zero reason to farm for dungeon armor besides wanting the look of dungeon armor. Whining about WANTING IT NOW just comes off as a child throwing a tantrum because they want the robot dinosaur boat.

By all means, let’s just totally eliminate one portion of the game people love – and have loved for many years – because of artificial difficulty in acquiring particular armor skins! Yes, that sounds MUCH better than making it more approachable to the less grind-oriented players.

Gave.9408:

Apathy.6430:

Tismo.3720:

So they didn’t want people to feel the grind of running instances for gear, so they took the boss rewards away and force people to run 70+ runs to get the set with tokens.

IMO grinding for tokens/mentos [if anyone gets the reference] is the absolute worst type of grind there is.

That’s just my opinion. I think I’ll just leave before this devolves into a foggy arbitrary argument.

Here’s a crazy idea…don’t grind it?

If you arent’t enjoying doing the dungeon, don’t do it. Do something else. Roll another character. PvP.

Pretty simple concept. There’s literally zero reason to farm for dungeon armor besides wanting the look of dungeon armor. Whining about WANTING IT NOW just comes off as a child throwing a tantrum because they want the robot dinosaur boat.

By all means, let’s just totally eliminate one portion of the game people love – and have loved for many years – because of artificial difficulty in acquiring particular armor skins! Yes, that sounds MUCH better than making it more approachable to the less grind-oriented players.

Wait…what is this portion of the game people love?

The grind they are whining about?

ravinhood.3981:

BlueCheez.4873:

Thread shouldn’t be deleted.
What OP is focusing on is the fact that GW2 rewards players for optimizing a particular route.
If I want to get ANY rewards for doing the dungeons, instead of playing EVERY explorable mode in every dungeon, I get a MUCH larger reward if I just do the same explorable mode in the same dungeon over and over and over and over.

For people who still think GW2 doesn’t require grind, you haven’t looked at the math. They want over around 1000 tokens for exotic armor. An average run gives 25 and can take over 2 hours. That’s around 40 runs. Fourty runs doing the SAME THING OVER AND OVER.

The point is that the rewards are geared towards grinding a single mode, instead of encouraging players to go through everything.

Why didn’t they just use the dungeon-book mechanic from guild wars 1?? Well, maybe because all the developers are completely different people and don’t know anything about guild wars 1.

So? How many runs in GW1 did you do for OBSIDIAN ARMOR? (before other chapters came out) Hrmmm? Cmon I’m waiting…..taps foot impatiently.

You could purchase ingredients for obsidian armor. Also, fissure of woe and underworld also had MANY different routes you could take and do.