Guild Wars 2

First off, I’m pretty happy with the change to the seals. It’s much faster and smoother. It’s not a painful grind that takes aaages for a relatively easy fractal. Definitely happy with that, especially since I think dungeons and raids etc should be less about the journey to the boss, and more about the boss itself.

HOWEVER, I think the boss fight has ruined it and made the whole fractal worse than before. They’ve taken an easy fight, and instead of making it fun/challenging, its painfully tedious.
Just a couple of reasons that make me dislike it so much, which would be easy fixes and make it much more entertaining to do. The one big thing I hate about it is he shadowsteps. Way. To. Much. Playing on a greatsword Reaper my hits would miss like 75% of the time, since my attacks were so slow and he was porting every 2 seconds, I was forced to go range just to hit him and do any damage. This is just ridiculous. If you’re gonna let him shadowstep making it at least a 15-20s lockout or something, not something he can spam.
Secondly, his damage for his little hits is a little on the high side. With 26k HP on my reaper, having him shadowstep to me and take half my HP before i even noticed he was next to me was a little absurd.
Apart from these two things, I think the fight is good. The hammer swing attack is fine, although no time to break the bar, but easy enough to evade. The change to the cage attack means you actually get a chance to avoid being caged.
Mostly just the shadowstepping I think is ruining the fight. Nerf that, and his little attacks damage a bit, and it’ll be much better.

No, absolutely, no!

The encounter is way better than before. It just punishes bad players or groups. Standing far away from each other and give the opportunity to afk- or semi-afk-range bosses should never be a possibility – never ever. If you stand together meleeing he won’t shadowstep and it forces you to keep an eye on his animations.
Study this video of a lvl 33 run (not mine) and you can see that a shadwostep is not done out of the air, he only steps to players that aren’t to reach for him with his hammer attacks:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dH498Ke7UrM
The damage is also fine, because you only get hit if you don’t dodge immediately when he is shadwostepping. This divides skilled players from lesser skilled ones!
Maybe you and your group should practice this fractals at a lower tier.
We did him around lvl 30-40 with less experienced players and it was no difference comparing to other fractal encounters a.k.a. it was new but still easy.
A total difference from lvl 94 when I pugged later on and we had one wipe during his final phase but beat him the second try.

Yeah. the whole shadowstep thing sounds a lot like what we have with molten berserker: Stay close and it wont happen.
I agree on the small swing tho, that attack isnt telegraphed and deals enough damage to literally kill everything.

He’s only annoying with the last laugh instability. Last laugh in general is obnoxious on melee loadouts and those stupid spirit devourers just annoy the crap out of you.

Other than that, he seems much easier to me.

Before the change his simple melee attacks at scale 50 would one shot a berzerker ele. Now not even his teleport strike does that.

He’s a lot easier to melee now, not needing an anchor guardian or earth elemental to distract him so you can melee him without getting 1-shot by an autoattack.

He’s just harder to AFK range.

As a dagger/warhorn tempest main I’ve had to scold a lot of staff eles and dumb mesmers and rangers for not having the decency to stay close to melee so he doesn’t port all over the place.

They think because they got ranged weapons that they need to spread out. This boss punishes spreading out.

The teleport attack doesn’t move him out of range if the party is all in melee.

Edit: forgot a negative.

Vinceman.4572:

Aceofsppades.6873:

The teleport attack does move him out of range if the party is all in melee.

Didn’t happen to us like in the video I posted. But even if so, he will port back and you can dodge it.

Oops I forgot the “not” part of my post.

even if you do mellee, he will shadowstep to the player he cage (wich is kittened), i as on FA tempest, we were melleeing, my party were good players not chikens running around, but the boss was caging and shadowsteping do the caged player, I don’t believe that is intended, we were meelle and losing dps fix that anet pls!

Ofc is this intended. You should not be caged otherwise you will be punished, that’s it. Stay close, run out of the orange hammer indicator, don’t dodge it or only in emergency and then you’ll always have a dodge to not get caged (orange circle indicator).
With today’s daily I ran high cliffside twice now and it just depends on player skill. My pug today was horrible and we had about almost ten attempts till we succeeded because people didn’t dodge properly, dodged too much, ranged too long, stayed in the colored indicators and more. My group two days ago was way better due to a higher skill level than today.
—> Train hard and stop to complain.

Fight is nice but shadowstep needs tell for target. You shouldn’t eat sudden unpredictable spike just because someone was dumb and pulled him from group.

Stick in melee range and he wont shadow step around the arena.

TexZero.7910:

Stick in melee range and he wont shadow step around the arena.

1. Someone caged.
2. Shadowstep to cage
3. Shadowstep to group.
And no, “someone must git gud” is not an answer.

Rednik.3809:

TexZero.7910:

Stick in melee range and he wont shadow step around the arena.

1. Someone caged.
2. Shadowstep to cage
3. Shadowstep to group.
And no, “someone must git gud” is not an answer.

Get good. You can avoid being caged entirely.

TexZero.7910:

Get good. You can avoid being caged entirely.

And who exactly is “you”? You personally going to teach every pug on earth to not get caged or what?

Rednik.3809:

TexZero.7910:

Get good. You can avoid being caged entirely.

And who exactly is “you”? You personally going to teach every pug on earth to not get caged or what?

You is whoever is complaining about being caged by the exceedingly obvious giant telegraphed indicator that is 100% avoidable.

TexZero.7910:

You is whoever is complaining about being caged by the exceeding obvious giant telegraphed indicator that is 100% avoidable.

Again, do you have some magic way to guarantee that pugs will not get caged? I guess not.
Then why you trying to use cage mechanic as excuse for completely random shadowsteps into rest of the group?

Rednik.3809:

Again, do you have some magic way to guarantee that pugs will not get caged?

LOL, you’re seriously asking this on a fractal topic?
Please nerf the fight because my pugs can’t avoid a big red circle… /s

Guardian of Angels.9867:

LOL, you’re seriously asking this on a fractal topic?
Please nerf the fight because my pugs can’t avoid a big red circle… /s

My point was that having big ranged attack with almost no indication is bad. Or maybe you not agree with that?

Rednik.3809:

Guardian of Angels.9867:

LOL, you’re seriously asking this on a fractal topic?
Please nerf the fight because my pugs can’t avoid a big red circle… /s

My point was that having big ranged attack with almost no indication is bad. Or maybe you not agree with that?

Remember that I was answering to this quote of yours:
“Again, do you have some magic way to guarantee that pugs will not get caged?”

on the subject of him having a big ranged attack with almost no indication, if we’re talking about the 1 shot wide ranged attack than my answer would be:
It’s pretty noticeable if you pay attention, but yes I also get hit by it often – thankfully my teammates are there to ress me <3 (even pugs)

Rednik.3809:

Guardian of Angels.9867:

LOL, you’re seriously asking this on a fractal topic?
Please nerf the fight because my pugs can’t avoid a big red circle… /s

My point was that having big ranged attack with almost no indication is bad. Or maybe you not agree with that?

Except that all the attacks are telegraphed, so again…avoid them.

The teleport only occurs when people are too far away to be melee’d. Don’t get out of melee range and avoid the telegraphs.

But wait next thing you’re going to tell me is that you shouldn’t have to improve during fractals.

I would like them to change the first phase of the bossfight so that he has the same abilities like the first archdiviner had pre patch. The first fight was pretty fun for me and it’s sad that it’s just gone now.

TexZero.7910:

Except that all the attacks are telegraphed, so again…avoid them.

The teleport only occurs when people are too far away to be melee’d. Don’t get out of melee range and avoid the telegraphs.

But wait next thing you’re going to tell me is that you shouldn’t have to improve during fractals.

Again, someone was caged, he shadowstep to him, and then he shadowsteps back. So, how exactly you can stay in melee, magically teleport to him on first shadowstep? This is your “improve during fractals”?

Rednik.3809:

TexZero.7910:

Except that all the attacks are telegraphed, so again…avoid them.

The teleport only occurs when people are too far away to be melee’d. Don’t get out of melee range and avoid the telegraphs.

But wait next thing you’re going to tell me is that you shouldn’t have to improve during fractals.

Again, someone was caged, he shadowstep to him, and then he shadowsteps back. So, how exactly you can stay in melee, magically teleport to him on first shadowstep? This is your “improve during fractals”?

Why was someone caged to begin with ? This is your first problem…If you see a giant orange circle and you stand in it, you need to get good.

His shadowstep has an indicator, not on the teleport itself but on the 1 second windup for his hammer smash shortly after the teleport. So when you see him suddenly appear next to you, you should be immediately dodging.

The only remotely annoying skill of his is his aoe pull and the minions if you have last laugh instability.

TexZero.7910:

Why was someone caged to begin with ?

Because he is pug. Simple, eh?

Rednik.3809:

TexZero.7910:

Why was someone caged to begin with ?

Because he is pug. Simple, eh?

So he can still get good. Simple, no ?

It’s almost like, if you avoid the obvious you don’t have to deal with the additional mechanics that are meant to put strain on you. Shucks what a novel concept, and straight forward game design that actively rewards playing good and punishes poor play. Something you should expect from what they see as their end game 5 man content with scaling difficulty.

Rednik.3809:

TexZero.7910:

Why was someone caged to begin with ?

Because he is pug. Simple, eh?

Please change your nickname to Redneck… Can’t take you seriously anymore.
Troll be trolling!

TexZero.7910:

So he can still get good. Simple, no ?

It’s almost like, if you avoid the obvious you don’t have to deal with the additional mechanics that are meant to put strain on you. Shucks what a novel concept, and straight forward game design that actively rewards playing good and punishes poor play. Something you should expect from what they see as their end game 5 man content with scaling difficulty.

So, again, who is “you avoid the obvious you don’t have to deal with the additional mechanics”? It’s someone else who doing something wrong and then awesome shadowstep mechanic randomly brings some fat damage spike in your face. Or not brings anything, but you can’t tell because there is NO TELL FOR SHADOWSTEP TARGET before he actually ports.
I still wonder why you keep defending bad mechanics that not rewards your individual skill, but instead forces you to rely on some random person.

Rednik.3809:

TexZero.7910:

So he can still get good. Simple, no ?

It’s almost like, if you avoid the obvious you don’t have to deal with the additional mechanics that are meant to put strain on you. Shucks what a novel concept, and straight forward game design that actively rewards playing good and punishes poor play. Something you should expect from what they see as their end game 5 man content with scaling difficulty.

So, again, who is “you avoid the obvious you don’t have to deal with the additional mechanics”? It’s someone else who doing something wrong and then awesome shadowstep mechanic randomly brings some fat damage spike in your face. Or not brings anything, but you can’t tell because there is NO TELL FOR SHADOWSTEP TARGET before he actually ports.
I still wonder why you keep defending bad mechanics that not rewards your individual skill, but instead forces you to rely on some random person.

They don’t force you to rely on anything. You made the choice to pug it.

Your party member(s) made the choice to not respect the mechanics, you as a collective party must deal with that. It’s called good game design. You want a nice single player experience ? Dark souls 3 is out, go try it.

Isn’t it nice when a thread is derailed by the back and forth of two people?

TexZero.7910:

They don’t force you to rely on anything. You made the choice to pug it.

Your party member(s) made the choice to not respect the mechanics, you as a collective party must deal with that. It’s called good game design. You want a nice single player experience ? Dark souls 3 is out, go try it.

So having mechanics that punishes you for someone else mistakes in content designed with pugging in mind is good for you, I get it.
(And thanks, but I’m not fan of bad console ports.)

Zenith.7301:

Isn’t it nice when a thread is derailed by the back and forth of two people?

actually it’s still about the cliffside fractal :P
About wether or not a GIANT RED AOE circle is OP vs pugs xD

Also there’s this redneck who wants to be a solo hero in group content

Rednik.3809:

So having mechanics that punishes you for someone else mistakes in content designed with pugging in mind is good for you, I get it.
(And thanks, but I’m not fan of bad console ports.)

First, fractals were designed for groups although you can solo them. They weren’t specially designed for pugging.
Secondly, if we are going after your personal wishes, we have to rework almost every encounter where a pug can make your life harder, not only cliffside. This would be bullkitten. Get your pug straight, explain it to them. Try it several times, if they are too stupid to get it, leave or decide to go on without them.
In my opinion the encounter is fine. It punishes bad players which should be the case therewith not every semi-afk-ranged player can rush through.

Rednik.3809:

TexZero.7910:

They don’t force you to rely on anything. You made the choice to pug it.

Your party member(s) made the choice to not respect the mechanics, you as a collective party must deal with that. It’s called good game design. You want a nice single player experience ? Dark souls 3 is out, go try it.

So having mechanics that punishes you for someone else mistakes in content designed with pugging in mind is good for you, I get it.
(And thanks, but I’m not fan of bad console ports.)

Fractals were not designed with pugging in mind, they added LFG as a convenience tool for those too lazy to socialize and form a static group to run with. Additionally, yes any mechanics that punish poor play in a mode where in you are supposed to improve as the difficulty increases is good design. If your group is making mistakes and dying to them then the onus is on them to stop that from occurring, not on Anet to pander to bad players.

Rednik.3809:

TexZero.7910:

They don’t force you to rely on anything. You made the choice to pug it.

Your party member(s) made the choice to not respect the mechanics, you as a collective party must deal with that. It’s called good game design. You want a nice single player experience ? Dark souls 3 is out, go try it.

So having mechanics that punishes you for someone else mistakes in content designed with pugging in mind is good for you, I get it.
(And thanks, but I’m not fan of bad console ports.)

five man content where five people have to play the game is good.

Rednik.3809:

TexZero.7910:

So he can still get good. Simple, no ?

It’s almost like, if you avoid the obvious you don’t have to deal with the additional mechanics that are meant to put strain on you. Shucks what a novel concept, and straight forward game design that actively rewards playing good and punishes poor play. Something you should expect from what they see as their end game 5 man content with scaling difficulty.

So, again, who is “you avoid the obvious you don’t have to deal with the additional mechanics”? It’s someone else who doing something wrong and then awesome shadowstep mechanic randomly brings some fat damage spike in your face. Or not brings anything, but you can’t tell because there is NO TELL FOR SHADOWSTEP TARGET before he actually ports.
I still wonder why you keep defending bad mechanics that not rewards your individual skill, but instead forces you to rely on some random person.

It is a five person instance.

It is literally designed for you to rely on four other people.

If you don’t understand this, I question what you’re doing in a group instance.

I love the changes to cliffside. I just wish the Archdiviner was a bit bigger so we can see his animations and changes a bit easier. This fractal is so much more enjoyable now.

I think the entire fractal is great and among my current favorites. The boss fight is also great, and I find that his animations are all very clear and easy to see. The shadow step also has an animation if you notice, since he teleports to a far away person and has to face them before doing so. I’ve gotten in a good rhythm of dodging it every time at this point… and if you can’t then you should bring a stunbreak or something to get you back on your feet quickly. Even at 94 it doesn’t one-shot most ‘zerker classes. About the only suggestion I could have is for him to be a bit bigger so it’d be easier to pick his animations out, but it’s not really that bad currently.

Go ANet! Hopefully they redo uncategorized or snowblind next. The tedium that is champion Ettin/Shaman and Lornar Dragonseeker is painful at high scales.

The pain is not the shaman. It’s the stupid ice elemental before him and the idiots who keep using an outdated suicide rush strategy as a pug only to be wiping over and over because god forbid they try not to aggro adds or those they do aggro, they bother to kill instead of ignoring them and letting the 7k ice spikes pelt them to death.

There’s no greater stupid check than the Snowblind fractal. It will tell you straight away who’s the tunneling idiot.

Unfortunately, it has been 3 years of a game that encourages people to tunnel DPS so it’s a hard habit to erode and get people to actually do mechanics other than “kill it fast before it kills us”.

Rising Dusk.2408:

Go ANet! Hopefully they redo uncategorized or snowblind next. The tedium that is champion Ettin/Shaman and Lornar Dragonseeker is painful at high scales.

Your weakness makes me laugh! Dragon will devour all!

Hmz i’m just going to go ahead and repeat myself, if you’re finding T4 end bosses too long/tedious, look up raid builds, gear out, learn your rotation, consider getting a Viper condi class, and try running 1-4h after reset to get good pugs.

I’ve been doing T4 with peeps I raid with and Cliffside boss drops pretty quick (compared to say Snowblind boss, which takes slightly longer?)

I have only done it a few times, but I don’t see any issues with the fight itself. I don’t have all the mechanics objectively analyzed , but none of them couldn’t be intuitively avoided.

The only issue I’ve had with the fractal is the Last Laugh mechanic. Other melee besides my daredevil just don’t have the endurance to be able to consistently dodge the blasts in often rapid succession and the blasts do enough damage to remove a significant chunk of your HP. You can also get stun locked by an unfortunate chain of closing timed blasts. Increasing the delay on the blast and maybe, preventing overlapping explosions from doing increase damage would go a long way in making the mechanic more balanced.

Shadowstep is dodgeable enough, honestly.
What people seem to forget is that he (and many other bosses) steal boons on plenty of scales, so he gets Quickness which makes him seemingly go at sonic speed and makes his breakbar so difficult to break. So what you want to do is make him not get quickness or at least make sure he can’t enjoy it for long.