Guild Wars 2

As the title suggests this has become the common LFG subject for raids. GG Anet making everyone hate Rev as a class because it contributes so little in raids compared to the Great 5 classes- PS, Ele, Chrono, Necro, Druid.

So much hate by Anet against a class they created a year ago and now its usefulness is gone out the window. Way to go Anet by destroying the diversity in raids!

Or people are just overreacting and exaggerating the impact of the patch.

Kinda funny when Rev and it’s buffs is still very viable and the profession hardest hit is actually Necro. But, groups of pugs are called grumbles for a reason

Outside of Slothasaur, Mathias, and Gorseval, why would you want a Necro anymore? Didn’t their DPS just get murdered with the horror change?

Jerus.4350:

Kinda funny when Rev and it’s buffs is still very viable and the profession hardest hit is actually Necro. But, groups of pugs are called grumbles for a reason

Necro is still desired because they still fit so well on certain fights, even if they took a big hit overall.

Rev doesn’t really have any fight that requires or highlights its strengths.

Dahkeus.8243:

Jerus.4350:

Kinda funny when Rev and it’s buffs is still very viable and the profession hardest hit is actually Necro. But, groups of pugs are called grumbles for a reason

Necro is still desired because they still fit so well on certain fights, even if they took a big hit overall.

Rev doesn’t really have any fight that requires or highlights its strengths.

The thing about Rev is, it can provide to the group (on small hit boxes) pretty much exactly what a DH can. Comparable utility and comparable DPS. Add to this, it also has the Boon Duration.

The thing about Boon Duration though is that, with 50% Boon Duration, Chronos could run full zerkers, 1 piece of boon duration food, and the sigil of concentration and everything was fine. With only 33% though and the nerfs to SoI, Chronos now have to run some boon duration gear, and with the crappy DPS Chronos do anyway, you might as well just go 100% self sustain boon duration and replace the Rev with a Thief or Ele for the extra damage.

Rev doesn’t suck, it’s in a difficult place since it’s place in raids was completely reliant on Chronos. The nerf to Chrono however forced an adjustment that doesn’t require Rev, so Rev has to be on the sidelines.

As far as Necro goes, I don’t understand why they nerfed it the way they did. It changes nothing. They lowered a Necro’s personal DPS a little, but Necro’s were never taken for their personal DPS. They were taken because of how Epi works, and because of their survivability and utility… things that are completely in tact. You have made fights slightly longer by nerfing Necro, but nothing changed over all.

Dahkeus.8243:

Jerus.4350:

Kinda funny when Rev and it’s buffs is still very viable and the profession hardest hit is actually Necro. But, groups of pugs are called grumbles for a reason

Necro is still desired because they still fit so well on certain fights, even if they took a big hit overall.

Rev doesn’t really have any fight that requires or highlights its strengths.

Yeah I always say people underestimate Plague signet, or at least forget to mention it when talking about Necro.

Anyways, Rev still has plenty of strengths, want perma protection and gap filling fury/might as well as an equivalent amount of DPS? Well rev provides that!

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/58jv0l/raidschronomancer_a_test_on_the_new_quickness/d91aqoe/

Guy outlines it there pretty well. The numbers usually posted include that extra 150 ferocity, take that out and dps drops on everyone. His math shows that with your normal build the dps will drop around 400 which is actually something that can be made up with the mesmer swapping an air sigil sword in for the concentration one.

So again, equal or at least comparable damage with full protection uptime and backup might/fury just in case. Not a bad deal at all. Large hitbox I’m sure Ele’s take the cake but either way Rev is still alive and well.

Ging.6485:

Dahkeus.8243:

Jerus.4350:

Kinda funny when Rev and it’s buffs is still very viable and the profession hardest hit is actually Necro. But, groups of pugs are called grumbles for a reason

Necro is still desired because they still fit so well on certain fights, even if they took a big hit overall.

Rev doesn’t really have any fight that requires or highlights its strengths.

The thing about Rev is, it can provide to the group (on small hit boxes) pretty much exactly what a DH can. Comparable utility and comparable DPS. Add to this, it also has the Boon Duration.

The thing about Boon Duration though is that, with 50% Boon Duration, Chronos could run full zerkers, 1 piece of boon duration food, and the sigil of concentration and everything was fine. With only 33% though and the nerfs to SoI, Chronos now have to run some boon duration gear, and with the crappy DPS Chronos do anyway, you might as well just go 100% self sustain boon duration and replace the Rev with a Thief or Ele for the extra damage.

Rev doesn’t suck, it’s in a difficult place since it’s place in raids was completely reliant on Chronos. The nerf to Chrono however forced an adjustment that doesn’t require Rev, so Rev has to be on the sidelines.

As far as Necro goes, I don’t understand why they nerfed it the way they did. It changes nothing. They lowered a Necro’s personal DPS a little, but Necro’s were never taken for their personal DPS. They were taken because of how Epi works, and because of their survivability and utility… things that are completely in tact. You have made fights slightly longer by nerfing Necro, but nothing changed over all.

Rev definitely doesn’t suck. My guild cleared everything fine last night while running with a rev.

However, it’s not optimal anywhere. Necros are still at least optimal in some fights.

Really all we need is for [qT] to make a Reddit thread that outright says what most of us know that Heralds are still perfectly valuable as one of the DPS options due to offensive support, great CC, and good-enough DPS. Once that happens, people will get in line, but for now all pubs really have to go on is Reddit overreaction.

Dahkeus.8243:

Ging.6485:

Dahkeus.8243:

Jerus.4350:

Kinda funny when Rev and it’s buffs is still very viable and the profession hardest hit is actually Necro. But, groups of pugs are called grumbles for a reason

Necro is still desired because they still fit so well on certain fights, even if they took a big hit overall.

Rev doesn’t really have any fight that requires or highlights its strengths.

The thing about Rev is, it can provide to the group (on small hit boxes) pretty much exactly what a DH can. Comparable utility and comparable DPS. Add to this, it also has the Boon Duration.

The thing about Boon Duration though is that, with 50% Boon Duration, Chronos could run full zerkers, 1 piece of boon duration food, and the sigil of concentration and everything was fine. With only 33% though and the nerfs to SoI, Chronos now have to run some boon duration gear, and with the crappy DPS Chronos do anyway, you might as well just go 100% self sustain boon duration and replace the Rev with a Thief or Ele for the extra damage.

Rev doesn’t suck, it’s in a difficult place since it’s place in raids was completely reliant on Chronos. The nerf to Chrono however forced an adjustment that doesn’t require Rev, so Rev has to be on the sidelines.

As far as Necro goes, I don’t understand why they nerfed it the way they did. It changes nothing. They lowered a Necro’s personal DPS a little, but Necro’s were never taken for their personal DPS. They were taken because of how Epi works, and because of their survivability and utility… things that are completely in tact. You have made fights slightly longer by nerfing Necro, but nothing changed over all.

Rev definitely doesn’t suck. My guild cleared everything fine last night while running with a rev.

However, it’s not optimal anywhere. Necros are still at least optimal in some fights.

I agree that rev is pretty decent, the only thing keeping it from being really good is the existence of hammer guardian. Still, rev is a great option if your chrono doesn’t have 100% boon duration gear or if you are having trouble maintaining 25 stacks of might for whatever reason.

Necro though…I don’t think it’s good anywhere anymore. The condi cleanse is helpful against matthias but far from necessary, and it no longer makes up for its poor starting damage later in the fight. Keep in mind that in addition to losing the normal damage inflicted by jagged horrors, necromancer also lost the ability to consistently transfer conditions back onto matthias. If jagged horrors aren’t up, you can only transfer one condition every 5 seconds on average, assuming you have a blood fiend and a flesh wurm. Everywhere besides matthias necro is just bad. It might help if there were more condi classes in the meta so epi would transfer good burns and maybe even confusion and torment, but as it stands you aren’t making up enough DPS with epi bouncing to justify using it.

I guess to be fair necro is still good on bandit trio but I think most people don’t consider that fight (or escort) when discussing raid viability.

FYI, Epidemic used the Necro’s Condition Damage on the copied conditions, so “good burns” aren’t necessary. Just stacks of it.

Necros are pretty much kittened imo
Why would you bring one now?
You have about 20k dps, epi bounces (aka 2+ necros) aren’t going to make up the dps you lose by bringing two necros instead of other classes. Blood magic is okay, but by no means extremely strong support outside of the transfusion teleport, which can shine at matthias. At said boss you can still transfer a fair amount of conditions with traited suffer, deathly swarm etc. but that’s about it. Outside of Matthias plague signet is decent in some fights and then there’s those where almost to no condis are in play. At Xera you most definitely wouldn’t pick a necro now if you want to keep her on spot. KC never was condi necro land, at VG they could technically still be taken for circle-duty if you run them. If you need add clearing, you got enough other ways to do so which work just as well.

I don’t mind honestly the nerf on necro and it wasn’t a direct nerf either cos those minions were way out of hand either way u ask me..

not only cos I don’t play necro neither. I tell u a story of a random pug story mayb like a day ago at bloomhunger we had 2 necro in grp very high ap much wow and everyone knows necro used to running selfish build so it’s ok. I manage to do fine melee every time I never down but look they have multiple down and at last phase ye it’s hard so we got 3 dead body piling up including a necro. What the other surviving necro do well why dps boss when at 10% right so he just focused on ressing dead body entire time. I do well ok I am keep his attention and kite away but I down as I run away from boss and some unseen aoe circles get me and I’m like help wtf are u doing (cos I’m downed long time and boss charges instead of leaps, plus there’s abt a 10sec window when boss is so far away but o guess what the necro doesn’t move a single inch he’s so focused on ressing and dead guy at 90% health alrdy. Then someone else in grp is targeting my downed body cos their like wtf is he/she doing but that’s aite np just let me die cos dead>downed and ye let’s face it I was good distraction nothing more. So yay for necro he resses 1 more after that and boss by this point alrdy at 5% and they saying omg just kill alrdy so ye they 3man boss with both necros alive so yay they got their wish and ye double necro power much wow.. told as well at end that I felt kittened cos idk maybe they think they’re superior class or something bc no problem they can facetank tougher bosses like bloomhunger without barely taking a scratch like wow such ego why not roll a necro urself and see what its all abt.. but more seriously tho I wouldn’t mind if the nerf hit them much harder or if it nerfed their skills instead of their pets but wow such attitude among those players is like the norm I swear.. I even ran with 4 necro group as war earlier and I downed/died so many times on ez fractal, ofc they provide no boons at all and instead ask innocently ‘yo what’s downing u so much bro?’ yeah I left after that one fractal cos I felt embarrassed and i learned my lesson never join a group with to many necros.. like srsly this is getting out of hand.

anet pls answer me how can u nerf rev when they are so much nicer ppl they have done nothing and they depend on chrono so much for pve and they have to change their build to always help there group cos they have only support very low dps on their own.. but instead u bring ur hammer down on the same class that u left kinda unfinished even before that and u only buff the dps of those self-motivated ppl who only want 5 necro group only facetank everything ez mode and run selfish builds is ok as long as entire group is doing it yay and look they despise anyone else even druids there like nuuuhh we too strong and unstoppable to need a puny healer, we are necros we have more lives than a cat does.. anet is promoting PHIW selfish condi builds instead of useful support roles that buff groups in group setting so whatever we have to accept it we have no choice guis

Wow that was actually difficult to read

How does meeting some, lets say less pleasant necros justify nerfing the class once more into the ground? It was trash-tier in PvE all the time before HoT and just a bit after it turned out to be viable until now, where it’s back to “lol nope”
Necro didn’t get any condi buffs whatsoever.
I agree that the whole minion thing was dumb and greatly reduced any skill you need, but they should have compensated this otherwise.
Revs are actually still fine for the most part, too.

Not to mention there’s plenty of nice necros and kitten revs around.
Sorry to hear you had a bad experience, but hoping a class gets completely gutted (not that there’s much left to gut besides some few skills…) because of a/some bad experience(s) is not very nice either.

Necros are still super strong in fractals after the nerf. The minion nerf on lich doesn’t matter that much in fractal since the fights aren’t long like raids and if you’re pugging there ain’t nobody healing yo minions.

You are also complaining about necros as a class when you are looking at the trash players who play it which is the wrong way to judge what a class brings. A good necro can bring epi (clears ads), projectile absorb (CPC) and support allies by removing condis as well as bring solid CC in reaper form as well as transfusion to pull people out of bloomhunger stomps. Just because they don’t bring fury/might doesn’t mean they’re useless and just because the class can be good doesn’t mean there aren’t trash players playing it poorly.

“As the title suggests this has become the common LFG subject for raids”

Screenshot?

fishball.7204:

Necros are still super strong in fractals after the nerf. The minion nerf on lich doesn’t matter that much in fractal since the fights aren’t long like raids and if you’re pugging there ain’t nobody healing yo minions.

You are also complaining about necros as a class when you are looking at the trash players who play it which is the wrong way to judge what a class brings. A good necro can bring epi (clears ads), projectile absorb (CPC) and support allies by removing condis as well as bring solid CC in reaper form as well as transfusion to pull people out of bloomhunger stomps. Just because they don’t bring fury/might doesn’t mean they’re useless and just because the class can be good doesn’t mean there aren’t trash players playing it poorly.

I wouldn’t consider them super strong. The things a necro brings are usually already covered by other classes in organized groups. At best, a necro would remove some “pressure”, if there even is any, in most cases. Transfusion is indeed strong and the combination of transfusion + vampiric presence helps your team maintaining scholar buffs.

They’re basically back to “it’s pretty decent to have one when playing in pugs/completely unorganized groups, but the more organized it is, the less need there is for one”

nagr.1593:

…

Your whole post clearly shows that you have no clue about the condi reaper and how it is working!

Btw. it helps if you generally shorten your posts. They are very hard to read and to understand every single time you’ve posted them into this forum. Write short sentences and use more paragraphs. ty

of course you can bring rev to raids. thats not the issue. the issue is getting a group. whats meta matters. 3 people can kill VG. but are you going to see constant 3 man groups running it? no. you have to be part of the meta to actually play.

sophiewhite.3149:

of course you can bring rev to raids. thats not the issue. the issue is getting a group. whats meta matters. 3 people can kill VG. but are you going to see constant 3 man groups running it? no. you have to be part of the meta to actually play.

Rev isn’t just ‘ok’ it’s a meta option. 2Ele = best dps on large hitbox, 1 Ele + 1 Rev and 2 D/W Ele’s are equivalent DPS so on small hitboxes Rev is a great choice. But then you also get perma protection which should not be discounted especially in groups where ‘you have to be part of the meta to actually play’ because if the group is thinking like that having that 33% less damage taken is HUGE.

I organise raids every week. For me rev is still an indispensable profession for my raids. That 33% boon duration + fury + 33% damage reduction + good cc. Simply replace useless necro for revs in almost every boss fight except matthias and sloth. And for that boss fight just get 1 necro. gg

I think new meta for raids is going to be; 3ele, 2Ps, 2druids, 1rev, thief (necro for few fights and DH is also going to be good), 1 chrono. I still don’t think we need 2 chronos. Chronos have such bad dps that 2nd chrono doesn’t justify for that extra 100% quickness uptime. You’re better of getting another Ele.

Rising Dusk.2408:

Really all we need is for [qT] to make a Reddit thread that outright says what most of us know that Heralds are still perfectly valuable as one of the DPS options due to offensive support, great CC, and good-enough DPS. Once that happens, people will get in line, but for now all pubs really have to go on is Reddit overreaction.

You can take it from me, Revs are still quite good in raids

NikeEU.7690:

Rising Dusk.2408:

Really all we need is for [qT] to make a Reddit thread that outright says what most of us know that Heralds are still perfectly valuable as one of the DPS options due to offensive support, great CC, and good-enough DPS. Once that happens, people will get in line, but for now all pubs really have to go on is Reddit overreaction.

You can take it from me, Revs are still quite good in raids

I trust this guy from qT more than you

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/58unld/revenant_and_raids_as_of_halloween_patch/d93l6n5/

We tested rev as a dps class in a full clear (3 wings) and it’s damage was terrible tbh. It’s on PS Warrior level without beeing half as useful. We really tried to find a spot for rev but unfortunately it’s in a very bad spot right now.

fishball.7204:

NikeEU.7690:

Rising Dusk.2408:

Really all we need is for [qT] to make a Reddit thread that outright says what most of us know that Heralds are still perfectly valuable as one of the DPS options due to offensive support, great CC, and good-enough DPS. Once that happens, people will get in line, but for now all pubs really have to go on is Reddit overreaction.

You can take it from me, Revs are still quite good in raids

I trust this guy from qT more than you

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/58unld/revenant_and_raids_as_of_halloween_patch/d93l6n5/

We tested rev as a dps class in a full clear (3 wings) and it’s damage was terrible tbh. It’s on PS Warrior level without beeing half as useful. We really tried to find a spot for rev but unfortunately it’s in a very bad spot right now.

This is exactly the point. The nerf to SoI and FoN made Revenant as a whole USELESS for raids since its dps is subpar and it doesn’t bring much to the table like a PS does. Now when will ANET read these forums and decide to actually do some beta testing before ruining the game’s diversity?

Vaelen.5294:

fishball.7204:

NikeEU.7690:

Rising Dusk.2408:

Really all we need is for [qT] to make a Reddit thread that outright says what most of us know that Heralds are still perfectly valuable as one of the DPS options due to offensive support, great CC, and good-enough DPS. Once that happens, people will get in line, but for now all pubs really have to go on is Reddit overreaction.

You can take it from me, Revs are still quite good in raids

I trust this guy from qT more than you

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/58unld/revenant_and_raids_as_of_halloween_patch/d93l6n5/

We tested rev as a dps class in a full clear (3 wings) and it’s damage was terrible tbh. It’s on PS Warrior level without beeing half as useful. We really tried to find a spot for rev but unfortunately it’s in a very bad spot right now.

This is exactly the point. The nerf to SoI and FoN made Revenant as a whole USELESS for raids since its dps is subpar and it doesn’t bring much to the table like a PS does. Now when will ANET read these forums and decide to actually do some beta testing before ruining the game’s diversity?

It’s sad but yeah, if they plan to go the way they are then the only saving grace for Rev is if they make it’s DPS comparable to the rest. Unfortunately, that would require a pretty jarring PvE/PvP split. They really messed things up here.

Honestly, the fix I would do to this is : revert Rev boon duration to 50% (PvE only) and increase the base quickness on Signet of Inspiration to 6 seconds (12 with 100% boon duration). Raids were hardly trivial content as a whole. Only the top groups really had them on farm status. PuGs and lower guilds would have nights where they banged their heads on bosses for 3 hours, even ones they cleared before. They needlessly increased the difficulty and decreased the amount of viable comps for lower tier groups.

Isn’kittens dps on the same level as guardian (according to qts dps chart), just that it has assassin’s presence as a bonus? It is certainly better than necromancer, that is pretty much useless. Even clearing adds with epidemic becomes kind of redundant when you run double chrono and therefore have double focus pull anyway.

I will never understand why people suck up to elitists so much. Imo you can run anything in raids and clear bosses as long people are not completely afk and know what they are doing. Reason elitists would run certain classes or not is speed clear or 6 man clear or w/e – does your average raid group run speed clears? No.

Shadowstep.6049:

I will never understand why people suck up to elitists so much. Imo you can run anything in raids and clear bosses as long people are not completely afk and know what they are doing. Reason elitists would run certain classes or not is speed clear or 6 man clear or w/e – does your average raid group run speed clears? No.

You’re assuming you can put together a 4/4/2 with casuals in mediocre dps gear and healer gear and actually be able to beat these bosses now, Wrong! basically everyone in raid must use A+B+C meta builds or else you will only get the boss to enrage and GL killing the boss in enrage mode. At the end of the day it is the math and numbers that counts, (1000+500) x10 = cannot be anything other than 15k dps. 15k dps should be the minimum for any dps (excluding a PS war, but PS usually pulls around 13-14k), the nerfanant barely pulls 10-11k dps making it a huge dps loss if you bring one. Sorry to burst your bubble here but the math and the time required are pretty much all calculated at the end of the day in order to complete raids now. If you want to argue that all math is elitist and shouldn’t be implemented this way then go tell ANET to actually test their game before they make patches like this one.

Vaelen.5294:

Shadowstep.6049:

I will never understand why people suck up to elitists so much. Imo you can run anything in raids and clear bosses as long people are not completely afk and know what they are doing. Reason elitists would run certain classes or not is speed clear or 6 man clear or w/e – does your average raid group run speed clears? No.

You’re assuming you can put together a 4/4/2 with casuals in mediocre dps gear and healer gear and actually be able to beat these bosses now, Wrong! basically everyone in raid must use A+B+C meta builds or else you will only get the boss to enrage and GL killing the boss in enrage mode. At the end of the day it is the math and numbers that counts, (1000+500) x10 = cannot be anything other than 15k dps. 15k dps should be the minimum for any dps (excluding a PS war, but PS usually pulls around 13-14k), the nerfanant barely pulls 10-11k dps making it a huge dps loss if you bring one. Sorry to burst your bubble here but the math and the time required are pretty much all calculated at the end of the day in order to complete raids now. If you want to argue that all math is elitist and shouldn’t be implemented this way then go tell ANET to actually test their game before they make patches like this one.

I have killed bosses in enrage mode. But frankly most of the time the reason why boss gets to enrage mode on first place is because people go down and die too much (dodging is hard yo) so you waste more time rezzing them or having 1-2 man down completely. Issue is always between chair and monitor. Also, i would dare to say that most people that run raids have ascended gear with decent stats.

Vaelen.5294:

Shadowstep.6049:

I will never understand why people suck up to elitists so much. Imo you can run anything in raids and clear bosses as long people are not completely afk and know what they are doing. Reason elitists would run certain classes or not is speed clear or 6 man clear or w/e – does your average raid group run speed clears? No.

You’re assuming you can put together a 4/4/2 with casuals in mediocre dps gear and healer gear and actually be able to beat these bosses now, Wrong! basically everyone in raid must use A+B+C meta builds or else you will only get the boss to enrage and GL killing the boss in enrage mode. At the end of the day it is the math and numbers that counts, (1000+500) x10 = cannot be anything other than 15k dps. 15k dps should be the minimum for any dps (excluding a PS war, but PS usually pulls around 13-14k), the nerfanant barely pulls 10-11k dps making it a huge dps loss if you bring one. Sorry to burst your bubble here but the math and the time required are pretty much all calculated at the end of the day in order to complete raids now. If you want to argue that all math is elitist and shouldn’t be implemented this way then go tell ANET to actually test their game before they make patches like this one.

When it is possible to 3 man a boss designed for 10 it’s not a dps issue!! It’s a player issue.

Dinosaurs.8674:

necromancer also lost the ability to consistently transfer conditions back onto matthias. If jagged horrors aren’t up, you can only transfer one condition every 5 seconds on average, assuming you have a blood fiend and a flesh wurm.

flesh wurm, wtf? best dps minion for viper necro is bone fiend, the devourer one. shoots 2 100% combo projectiles with each attack.

and next patch it’ll be another class, and so on.

Basing balance on LFG is a special kind of dumb. Consider the actual utility for clearing content, not the utility of classes for speed clearing content. No game developer balances around optimal clear times because it is patently impossible to make every option equally viable. There will always be a mathematically superior option and players will find it extremely quickly.

What is important from a balance standpoint is whether or not there’s enough wiggle room between “optimal” and “acceptable”

LFG will ALWAYS be looking for “optimal” but in reality GW2, and every other game isn’t balanced around optimal. It’s balanced around “acceptable” and only players stubborn enough to ignore the meta will even know the difference.

So, basically, don’t complain about the meta changing and invalidating your meta build if all you do is run meta parties. If you expect optimal clear times, you must also accept that means always rolling optimal builds.

fishball.7204:

NikeEU.7690:

Rising Dusk.2408:

Really all we need is for [qT] to make a Reddit thread that outright says what most of us know that Heralds are still perfectly valuable as one of the DPS options due to offensive support, great CC, and good-enough DPS. Once that happens, people will get in line, but for now all pubs really have to go on is Reddit overreaction.

You can take it from me, Revs are still quite good in raids

I trust this guy from qT more than you

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/58unld/revenant_and_raids_as_of_halloween_patch/d93l6n5/

We tested rev as a dps class in a full clear (3 wings) and it’s damage was terrible tbh. It’s on PS Warrior level without beeing half as useful. We really tried to find a spot for rev but unfortunately it’s in a very bad spot right now.

There is hyperbole in that quote. Rev is virtually indistinguishable from hammer guard in terms of team comp result.

Edit: read the replies. Particlar pretty much shows the hyperbole to be hyperbole. As I’ve said in multiple places, dealing in percentages is irrelevant when discussing nominal amounts.

Sublimatio.6981:

Dinosaurs.8674:

necromancer also lost the ability to consistently transfer conditions back onto matthias. If jagged horrors aren’t up, you can only transfer one condition every 5 seconds on average, assuming you have a blood fiend and a flesh wurm.

flesh wurm, wtf? best dps minion for viper necro is bone fiend, the devourer one. shoots 2 100% combo projectiles with each attack.

Well the damage for all of them is bad, you bring flesh wurm for matthias because it lets you teleport back to the stack quickly after dropping off poison, allowing you to get in more DPS as well as avoid unintentionally pulling him out of the middle. It also gets you out of a tornado and you can use it while stunned to avoid killing your teammates with the timed bomb. Teleports in general are really good against matthias and there isn’t a great 3rd slot DPS skill unless you’re willing to risk cpc, so most everyone I know takes flesh wurm for that fight.

As far as rev goes it’s not that bad. It’s just that everything useful it does guardian can also do, and guardian has a little bit better DPS and a few other goodies. Rev is still totally usable it’s just not optimal for speed clears.

I would even say you should bring a revenant if your group sucks at stacking up against matthias, because the might ramp up is pretty decent and allows for players that are further apart.

Dinosaurs.8674:

Well the damage for all of them is bad, you bring flesh wurm for matthias because it lets you teleport back to the stack quickly after dropping off poison, allowing you to get in more DPS as well as avoid unintentionally pulling him out of the middle. It also gets you out of a tornado and you can use it while stunned to avoid killing your teammates with the timed bomb. Teleports in general are really good against matthias and there isn’t a great 3rd slot DPS skill unless you’re willing to risk cpc, so most everyone I know takes flesh wurm for that fight.

every issue you wrote doesn’t concern me so i’m better off using bone fiend. it’s just optimal if you play perfectly

Sublimatio.6981:

Dinosaurs.8674:

Well the damage for all of them is bad, you bring flesh wurm for matthias because it lets you teleport back to the stack quickly after dropping off poison, allowing you to get in more DPS as well as avoid unintentionally pulling him out of the middle. It also gets you out of a tornado and you can use it while stunned to avoid killing your teammates with the timed bomb. Teleports in general are really good against matthias and there isn’t a great 3rd slot DPS skill unless you’re willing to risk cpc, so most everyone I know takes flesh wurm for that fight.

every issue you wrote doesn’t concern me so i’m better off using bone fiend. it’s just optimal if you play perfectly

Flesh wurm a more reliable option and is only an extremely minor difference in dps, so I think is more applicable to the raiding community as a whole.

If you’re playing for speed kills assuming you play perfectly you would bring cpc anyway, since in a group that plays perfectly the boss will rarely move out of the aoe and you can time it to not block the pea shooter. Or you just wouldn’t bother to bring necromancer at all lol.

I bring “Suffer!” for Matthias because of the extra condition transfer. I find it does more consistent damage during fire / rain / abom phase than anything else, and it also has a lot of valuable utility as well (I can spread fire phase burns to lingering ice patches to kill them).

Rise with Death magic. Am i doing it wrong? ez solo plague signet.

If you want to play revenant or your group is used to have a revenant then play it, even in 5-5.

Revenant is not super bad or something. it can give nice buffs and utility, espiaclly to inexperienced groups.

same for necromancer tbh. you can still play it and epi bounce does still good damage.

it wont make the difference between success or failure in a raid bringing a revenant or a necromancer.

here is a random gorseval kill where we tested stuff after the patch and still achieved a good time even tho bringing a revenant and 2 necros.

Rising Dusk.2408:

I bring “Suffer!” for Matthias because of the extra condition transfer. I find it does more consistent damage during fire / rain / abom phase than anything else, and it also has a lot of valuable utility as well (I can spread fire phase burns to lingering ice patches to kill them).

minion with death magic would transfer condis more frequently and deal more damage

Sublimatio.6981:

minion with death magic would transfer condis more frequently and deal more damage

You’re right, but you can’t control when that transfer will proc. I’ve tried that and sometimes I’ll be sitting with 25 poison, Plague Signet on cooldown, and my minion transfers on ICD. Those cases happening so often is why I ended up going with “Suffer!”.

Also: most of the time pubs demand Blood Magic for Transfusion and Reaper is too good IMO to give up post-DM-nerf.