Needs a better PVE endgame
That is not true at all. This game is about horizontal scaling not vertical scaling. Grinding for better gear so you can do the next tier dungeon/raid is so lame in a game like this. Dungeons are meant to be done for the challenge not the gear grind.
If your the type of person who loves raiding there are plenty of other MMOS for those type of people. I for one love not having to keep up with the gear treadmill.
I agree with Arisal. GW2 ‘endgame’ is not and should not be what people typically expect from MMO’s (LFD, raids). Mostly because those aren’t very interested or fun systems. Gear grind is counter intuitive to what GW2 is all about – so no to “gear leveling” as well.
GW2 isn’t going to be like WoW, if you wanted WoW.. That’s why there’s WoW. GW2 will be its own game in its own right and I support the lack of traditional endgame content.
I don’t think the game needs gear grinding in a stat sense, but there really is a lack of progression at level 80, which is saddening. Arah explorable is no more difficult than any other explorable dungeon. They don’t need to necessarily implement raids, but there should be a tier system where you complete X dungeon which unlocks Y dungeon. Y dungeon would have harder trash and bosses etc.
I don’t mind my stats not going up. That isn’t too big of a deal for me. However, I feel like there should be something to work for like killing a really tough boss that takes a number of attempts. That’s what I enjoyed about raiding in WoW and would like that in this game either in the form of dungeons or raids. At the very least this should be an option for some players rather than just alienating those people.
Add all of this on top of the fact that almost all the bosses are mechanically boring and you’ve got dungeon content that isn’t all that exciting. There are 10 tank n spanks for every SE story mode final boss (forgot his name). Even then that boss is easier than most tank n spanks. Frankly GW2 could learn a thing or two from WoW’s dungeon/raid content.
That’s my 2 cents.
GM of Your Math Teacher [MATH] – Northern Shiverpeaks
(edited by Frost.9376)
Personally, I would try to make the dungeons more rewarding / interesting. At the moment, for completing Explorable modes, you’re always rewarded 20 tokens flat (30 for daily). In the chests, you get some random blues and every now and then, a rare. In order to get 5 pieces of Token gear, you need to run the dungeon 60 or so times. On top of that, dungeons such as Arah Explorable are too long to justify 20-30 token rewards, which is why most people avoid that set (for now). There’s also a difference in difficulty level between each dungeon, for example, Citadel of Flame is probably the welfare gear of GW2 at the moment since a full run takes only 15 to 20 minutes.
I feel as though the dungeon mechanics are exactly that – dungeon mechanics. Some are tank and spank easy, others are difficult. Either way, an average player shouldn’t have difficulty completing it. It get’s easier once you’ve done the fight a few times too, so by the time you reach your 50th run, you’ll most likely be doing the dungeon in your sleep. Not fun.
Getting to the point
I think they should add 10 man raids to make the PVE more interesting. This does NOT mean adding “bigger” stats or another tier of stats, this means making a higher player cap “dungeon” with a difficulty of a “raid” with the length of something like the current dungeon Arah. The rewards can be completely cosmetic, it could be
- Titles (for achievements)
- Special Recipe drops for professions (ie: Tailoring, Jewelcrafting, etc)
- Cosmetic gear only available from that raid
- Cosmetic weapons only available from that raid
- Necklace/Accessories/Rings available from that raid (since the only way to make Exotic accessories at the moment is by crafting. It’d be nice if there were another option)
It’d also make PVE players, such as me, feel like they’re doing more than running dungeons 60 times for cool looking gear. The raid can be challenging, no tank and spank mechanics and give players something to aim for. The bosses could be as epic and amazing as the World Boss dragons you see every now and then. Personally, I think if GW2 were to make a Raid, they’d be the best ones to bring back that “Omg That was beeping epic..” feel that so many raids now don’t have in other games.
The only problem is, people skipping the other dungeons in order to jump straight to the raid. They could put an attunement on the raid, such as “you need to do all of the dungeons atleast once in order to enter” – That way, it limits the amount of “I’m just going to say screw everything and jump straight into raiding” people. Also, they could make the difficulty high enough to where Exotic gear is mandatory, so people don’t try to run it in greens and blues.
Just my two cents. :P
Instead of raids u should ask for more world bosses , which is kinda the same thing .
Its more cheaper creating a boss , putting him into the open world , rather than creating a whole istance-raids for 1-15 million dollars just for him and some filler-mobs .
And its more fun , fighting him with 200+ ppl rather than few ppl .
U should propose some world bosses fun mechanics :P
Personally I’d like to see them add a large non-instanced dungeon (akin to Darkness Falls) that takes dynamic content to a whole new level. Secret rooms, hidden traps, random elite/boss spawns, passageways that open and close to make navigation different every time, events such as rescuing an NPC in the stockade who gives you a key that unlocks a secret door to a room with hidden dangers and puzzles to solve (a-la Indiana Jones!). They could even randomize the contents of various rooms so you’re constantly exploring them to see what new stuff is there.
The devs can’t easily change the outdoor areas that much because 1) it would require a lot of man hours to rework the surroundings, and 2) it might break certain events/quests. But in a controlled area like a dungeon they could have mini events within rooms that they could change frequently because it doesn’t have to affect anything but that 1 room, or even add a new room each week if they like.
I just don’t understand how people are level 80 already, unless they are only playing 1 character and racing to the end like theirs some finish line to reach. I’ve got 6 characters that I’m leveling up currently, and my highest one is level 33. (That’s playing about 6 hours a day)
I just don’t understand how people are level 80 already, unless they are only playing 1 character and racing to the end like theirs some finish line to reach. I’ve got 6 characters that I’m leveling up currently, and my highest one is level 33. (That’s playing about 6 hours a day)
You don’t have to race or power game to hit level 80 by now. The leveling curve is flat. Frankly, it gets faster (or it was for me) the higher you get given how many events there are. At minimum it takes about 45 minutes, max 1h 30m per level.
And yes, believe it or not, not everyone made a ton of alts. I found out the class I wanted to play in beta.
GM of Your Math Teacher [MATH] – Northern Shiverpeaks
I bet u all guys already have legendary crafted in forge wepons and jewels?
And yes, believe it or not, not everyone made a ton of alts. I found out the class I wanted to play in beta.
Oh so you were a beta player. Well that makes sense. I played LOTRO beta and was almost level capped about a week after it went live, because I knew where everything was and what to do.
For a person who just started playing during head start, I don’t think they’d be capped yet unless running with someone who was in beta, or just straight racing to end game.
I just don’t understand how people are level 80 already, unless they are only playing 1 character and racing to the end like theirs some finish line to reach. I’ve got 6 characters that I’m leveling up currently, and my highest one is level 33. (That’s playing about 6 hours a day)
I’ve been level 80 for over a week although no one in my guild is even at level 70 yet and I wasn’t trying that hard at all.
And yes, believe it or not, not everyone made a ton of alts. I found out the class I wanted to play in beta.
Oh so you were a beta player. Well that makes sense. I played LOTRO beta and was almost level capped about a week after it went live, because I knew where everything was and what to do.
For a person who just started playing during head start, I don’t think they’d be capped yet unless running with someone who was in beta, or just straight racing to end game.
If you have a lot of free time you could definitely be 80 right now. I agree that GW2 is more about stopping and smelling the roses, but you don’t need to power game to hit 80 quickly.
GM of Your Math Teacher [MATH] – Northern Shiverpeaks
devs dont care much about level 80.
next expansion will likely go to 160.
But it is a different experience to level so quickly.
is it really causing anyone a problem?
are you disappointed there wasn’t more or just cant find anything to do at 80?
I see high level folks all over the world.
This game has a lot of potential, I love the outdoor events and leveling up, but once you hit 80 the dungeons leave a lot to be desired. Unrewarding and no good grouping system like in WoW. I see a lot of PVE oriented players quitting at 80 if this isn’t fixed soon. Arena Net, work on this part of the game fast or you’ll see many players gravitate back to WoW.
Yea I get guild wars 1 was all about pvp, but guild wars 2 seems to take PVE more seriously. They just failed at the end game. But it can be fixed, just put a lot of developers to it and make a decent “item leveling” game where you do harder and harder dungeons and level up your gear, and implement raids. I know it’s done to death in WoW, but it’s really the only way to keep PVE interesting after you’ve leveled up your character to max level. Otherwise there’s nothing to look forward to except do that same dungeon again …
Sound like you want to grind in GW2, so I feel sorry to you because GW2 aspect is horizontal progression, ANet try to make the game has less grind than tradition MMO. So if you satisfy to grind endlessly, I suggest you to get back to WoW. For me, I don’t find it fun to do PVE in tradition MMO (like WoW) because only thing I have to do in endgame is grinding to get max gear while I realize they still already have better gears in the game when new patches come out.
(edited by Amadeuz.4617)
Reduce the max hp of trash mobs, give them spells that do a kittenon of damage if you dont dodge. Give then a variety of spells plus animations that we can interrupt . The dificulty is nice but done in a horribly wrong way. Its hard but not fun when you have to smash trash mobs for 10 minutes
MERC
I agree with you buddy, you have my vote.
I love how half of your comments are “don’t play so fast!”.
Gosh guys, what are you thinking playing at your own speed?! It’s not a race!
I actually like the trash pulls in dungeons. Particularly the Deadeye’s in Arah, they’re always good fun.
But I am quite disappointed with explorables. While we all knew it meant just a different path – I really hoped it also meant a different end boss. But sadly Arenanet did not take this approach. Otherwise dungeons are ok without all the bugs
Instead of raids u should ask for more world bosses , which is kinda the same thing .
Its more cheaper creating a boss , putting him into the open world , rather than creating a whole istance-raids for 1-15 million dollars just for him and some filler-mobs .
And its more fun , fighting him with 200+ ppl rather than few ppl .U should propose some world bosses fun mechanics :P
Except all the “world bosses” are just a huge zerg fest that take absolutely no coordination or tactics. That will not help keep the PvE crowd interested.
I personally couldnt care for raids. I started playing this game with 4 friends hoping to enjoy all end game content with a group of close friends. My concern is the lack of feeling of progression.
I do not understand for the life of me why stats could not be more meaningful as they provide a course of progression. I would have been much happier if there was 5 level 80 dungeons each getting progressively harder in difficulty requiring players to complete the previous in order to progress to the next and obtaining gear that improved stats so that they could logically take the next step.
What we have at the moment is a load of dungeons that apart from providing intrigue and in some cases fun (although this is limited by the lack of mechanics that seem to have been adopted possibly because there is no holy trinity in this game) on the first run through offer no feeling of satisfaction passed that. Once you have completed them once there is no real reason to go back apart from grind for gear that just provides a visual ‘upgrade’
I accept that this was done because it keeps PVP fair. Last thing you want is a bunch of players with super stats from PVE gear entering PVP and killing everyone easily in there. They wanted to keep it skill based. This is fair enough so make it so that PVE gear stats are restricted to a certain level when in PVP and WvWvW. I dont think any PVE players would have a problem with that.
I am level 57 at the moment so not reached end game but having seen a few of the dungeons now I cannot see myself staying interested much passed completing all the 5-mans that the game has to offer currently once. Because I have no interest in running dungeons more than once if there is no reason to. Without a slight linear progression to the game there is no reason to keep playing. Also the way looting works in this game would take away the competitive nature of the game. I for one tend to offer equipment around if I get something that I cannot use. The game has created a game that encourages people to be social, but the lack of end game progression has me perplexed.
What we have at the moment is a load of dungeons that apart from providing intrigue and in some cases fun (although this is limited by the lack of mechanics that seem to have been adopted possibly because there is no holy trinity in this game) on the first run through offer no feeling of satisfaction passed that. Once you have completed them once there is no real reason to go back apart from grind for gear that just provides a visual ‘upgrade’
So you want to be required to run the same dungeon over and over for “tokens” or some other currency, so that you can buy the required gear that you need to get in to the next dungeon… yeah there’s about 30 of those WoW clones that do that type of dungeon very well, I think you might be playing the wrong game.
ANet said they were removing the grind, and you want them to put it right back in.
ANet said they were removing the grind, and you want them to put it right back in.
Wait, they removed what? 400 tokens for a piece of gear isn’t grind?
I love how half of your comments are “don’t play so fast!”.
Gosh guys, what are you thinking playing at your own speed?! It’s not a race!
I love how over half this thread is “we want raids and gear grind carrot on a stick progression” even though GW2 having none of those things has been talking points about this game for over a year.
ANet said they were removing the grind, and you want them to put it right back in.
Wait, they removed what? 400 tokens for a piece of gear isn’t grind?
People need to re-phase that to “Does not require a grind”.
400 tokens equipments are entirely optional and does not offer any gameplay benefit.
Also I think the reward is fine that way it is. They do need to make the dungeon more fun and engaging though so people actually want to do dungeon for the experience of running the dungeon itself instead of grinding it for rewards.
Agreed with the OP.
Love the game so far ( I’m up to 75 ), but keep wondering what the point will be after playing a bit at 80.
Raids would help this.
Why do you need raids? They give you something to work toward. They give you progression to work on. They are a reason for improving other aspects of your character. In short – they give your character and the time you invest, “purpose”.
I’m all in favor of how the rest of the game has been built, including the dungeons. But I believe you need something bigger to look ahead to as well.
Cheers!
What we have at the moment is a load of dungeons that apart from providing intrigue and in some cases fun (although this is limited by the lack of mechanics that seem to have been adopted possibly because there is no holy trinity in this game) on the first run through offer no feeling of satisfaction passed that. Once you have completed them once there is no real reason to go back apart from grind for gear that just provides a visual ‘upgrade’
So you want to be required to run the same dungeon over and over for “tokens” or some other currency, so that you can buy the required gear that you need to get in to the next dungeon… yeah there’s about 30 of those WoW clones that do that type of dungeon very well, I think you might be playing the wrong game.
ANet said they were removing the grind, and you want them to put it right back in.
Compared to at the moment where you have to run a dungeon about 60 times to get a cosmetic piece of equipment which is just that. Cosmetic. At least running it 30 times to upgrade your gear so you can move into a new dungeon offers some form of progression.
Oh and btw there is always going to be a grind. There still is btw. A grind is doing the same thing over and over again.
Which guess what is still present in this game whatever your intentions are unless your intention is to get to level 80, clear all the dungeons and then not login again until an expansion is released in which case congratulations youll be done fairly quickly. But for those that are looking for something to work for at level 80 to keep us logging in this isnt enough. The gear doesnt even need to provide a boost to stats. It would just be nice if there was progression, by completing one dungeon to unlock the next which is harder than the one before.
(edited by OliShoey.3071)