Guild Wars 2

Please nerf silver rewards of easy dungeons like AC and CoF. AC currently makes you about 3g per hour with a good group, much more than you can make off in dungeons like arah or coe. This is totally unbalanced and leads to inflation and people farming off easy dungeons just for the gold. Every day people in my friendlist/guild try to force me to farm it with them, since its just that much more profitable than anything else unless you get lucky drops.
For the record AC gives 10s for troll, 10s for Kholer, 10s for spiderking, 5s per champion graveling after Kholer, 15s for endboss and 26s endreward. Doesnt this seem totally out of line for a dungeon which can be completed in under 30min? If you add buff food with 30 or 40% additional gold it becomes even more outrageous.
Not to mention the bags of wondrous goods with another 2-4s each, 3 tokens and 400 karma.

CoF gives a bit less money, but still very fast and easy for the money/hour.

What’s even better, AC has been the best goldmine since the release, being the only dungeon with gold-dropping mobs in the game before the recent update. It also has the best and cheapest exotic armor set.

I don’t think there’s a need of balancing anything here, though. If you nerf the ‘easy’ dungeons (what’s ‘easy’? for my team everything is easy, just some routes are longer than others; for other people some stuff might be hard, and different stuff at that), what is now ‘medium’ will become the new ‘easy’, seeing the most farming.
In essence, you can nerf the general gold/hour farming, but you can’t prevent the farmers focusing on one place, as there will always be one-two spots yielding best gold/time ratio, and they will see the most play.
Then the question becomes – which dungeons we want to see being promoted…

Instead of nerfing, they should buff other dungeons…

Arah actually gives probably more gold than anything else if you just keep doing path 3 first 2 champs over and over. Over 28s with gold food+ chest and two bags in 5-10 minutes at most.

They buffed drops and i guess that’s fine, but they should have tuned the drops according to the dungeon a bit more instead of giving everything the same reward (10s+bag to every boss-semi boss). But i don’t think the drops are excesive considering that you can do outside dungeons the same and more gold than that.

Without coin rewards dungeon will be just empty at all. It’s the only reason for now to run them at all. After 1380 tokens and some for weapons + optional 500 for gift there is no reason for running them.
Without rewards for bosses ppl would just skip everything in this dungeon (spider, champions, kohler, troll) and do a 10 min run for 26 silver. Reward for clearing is imo way better game design than skipping content because reward is poor.
If you want to focus all ppl on fractals it’s your choice. IMO dungeon rewards for now a quite good, because it’s steady amount of coin + karma+xp + tokens (so exotics) + rng chance for cores/lodestone/whatever.
On fractals I have rng on everything, I can end up with exotics or ascended but I can also end up with blue one. No karma, low xp, everything based on rng. And for tokens I can buy what? 20 slot box…

They need to just fix dungeons, because amount of bugs is just funny. Than they need to rework strange and way too hard paths and bosses. They should have similar amount of time needed to complete them, not as for now where one path is 30 min, second 1h and third is so hard and stupid that nobody do it.

bullkitten, make other dungeons ON PAR.

“strange and way too hard paths” there are none, they are just very easy and easy pathes.

instead of silver they should think of something else, putting a stupid amount of silver drops on everything is not a good way to make a dungeon worthwhile

Malediktus.9250:

“strange and way too hard paths” there are none, they are just very easy and easy pathes.

instead of silver they should think of something else, putting a stupid amount of silver drops on everything is not a good way to make a dungeon worthwhile

how I love this elitism on this forum

what is better than coin? You need coin for everything, starting from waypoints ending on legenderies.

The 26s silver at the end is good enough for 20-30min.
The main reward of the dungeons should consist of rare unique drops you can only get in that dungeon or good crafting materials.
The current rare drops dont cut it thought, the ones I saw so far were just more merchant food. GW1 did it much better in this case, plenty of unique skins to find and not an overly large amount of gold.

No, please don’t nerf the rewards for dungeons; I’m glad that I can finally make money playing the endgame content of the game. It’s worth noting that AC doesn’t have a chance to drop cores/lodestones of any kind, which is actually a huge hit for the value of running it. It’s still great and worth the effort, don’t get me wrong, but it’s not offering those big potential payoffs.

If you ask me, other dungeons (harder dungeons) should have their rewards buffed slightly so that it’s worth it to run them compared to AC. I would suggest the following:

Any dungeon that gives a core or lodestone type should give a guaranteed core in the end chest of that dungeon’s explorable paths.

AC: —
CM: --
TA: Onyx Core
HotW: Glacial Core
CoF: Molten Core
SE: Destroyer Core
CoE: Charged Core
Arah: Corrupted Core

I know Arah doesn’t drop corrupted cores, but it deserves something. Maybe it’s hard enough that it should give a lodestone instead of a core. Also, didn’t factor in crystal cores, but maybe they could go somewhere too. Anyway, this would really encourage people to play the harder dungeons more.

They should all have a higer chance to drop lodestones and t5&6 mats, new unique materials only avaible in that 1 dungeon (and nowhere else!) for interesting recipes.

Silver is one of the worst and laziest rewards I can think off.

Yes, i agree with the above post…rewarding more silver will increase the prices for everything where as instead of rewarding silver if you got more lodestones and T6 mats it would not just make prices cheaper but would give a better economy overall.

However the silver gain is “fine” because it doesn’t give you more gold than what a MF farmer could get doing events. But giving more silver is not better, it just makes the gap between new players and old players much bigger because prices on everything will be a lot more expensive.

Rising Dusk.2408:

No, please don’t nerf the rewards for dungeons; I’m glad that I can finally make money playing the endgame content of the game. It’s worth noting that AC doesn’t have a chance to drop cores/lodestones of any kind, which is actually a huge hit for the value of running it. It’s still great and worth the effort, don’t get me wrong, but it’s not offering those big potential payoffs.

If you ask me, other dungeons (harder dungeons) should have their rewards buffed slightly so that it’s worth it to run them compared to AC. I would suggest the following:

Any dungeon that gives a core or lodestone type should give a guaranteed core in the end chest of that dungeon’s explorable paths.

AC: —
CM: --
TA: Onyx Core
HotW: Glacial Core
CoF: Molten Core
SE: Destroyer Core
CoE: Charged Core
Arah: Corrupted Core

I know Arah doesn’t drop corrupted cores, but it deserves something. Maybe it’s hard enough that it should give a lodestone instead of a core. Also, didn’t factor in crystal cores, but maybe they could go somewhere too. Anyway, this would really encourage people to play the harder dungeons more.

I fully agree with a garantee core after a run, we are not asking for a lodestone but just one core will help us. These lodestones are extremely rare and we need a viable way of obtaining them.

Hexgame.4802:

Instead of nerfing, they should buff other dungeons…

This is what they should do. The problem isn’t that AC is rewarding. It is that the AC dev is the only dev doing his job. All the other dungeons still have bosses that fail to drop a bag of gems or money. AC is rewarding to do, other dungeons are not.

For example in CoE you fight subject alpha 3 times. He takes quite some time to kill. Two of those times you get absolutely nothing for it.

AC is not only the easiest but also the most rewarding dungeon atm, something is clearly wrong here…

“AC gives an adequate amount of reward for time invested!!! NERF IT!!!”

completely agree with those in the “BUFF OTHER DUNGEONS” coalition.

what do those advocating more core drops thing of cores for tokens? idk how that would work exactly since all the other token rewards are untradeable, but it would at least make it a more fixed thing. basically i’m going to fight anet on every front that they want to inject randomness into the game.

It’s the only reason people are running this content atm. Make it less profitable and people will just quit running it and exclusive run FotM (which we are almost seeing anyway). Even with the silver rewards I have multiple baddy teams that refuse to do Kholer or gravelings and no-one did them before this patch. The dungeon needs these rewards (and thank god other dungeons got a silver buff, previously AC was far more rewarding anyway).

They need to balance other dungeons instead of nerfing the ones people want to run. Other content is becoming more and more desperate for a rewards and difficulty balance when we keep getting easy content like FotM that is more rewarding in one run than three runs through any of the existing dungeons.

Dungeons should give less coin but more useful / valuable items. Raw coin only increases inflation rate.
I’d rather have things like high crafting materials drops, more rares / exotics and more generously cores / lodestones.

Nerfing it will make it worse, everyone is running Fractal. Almost no one is going to run other dungeons for the moment. If you nerf it, there will be zero people interested to run any other dungeons than Fractal.

So why are you que que’ing about this? Why don’t you just midn your own business and let people enjoy the rewards from completing a dungeon… sheesh

Coin Flunk.3024:

So why are you que que’ing about this? Why don’t you just midn your own business and let people enjoy the rewards from completing a dungeon… sheesh

Because the easiest dungeon of the game shouldnt be the most profitable. Sure others can be rewarding, but involving RNG be heavily on your side.

I’m in the buff other dungeons crowd. Make lodestones and T5/6 mats drop more in higher dungeons and make bosses and boss chests in higher/harder dungeons have better loots.

Inflation and dungeon run value are issues which impact on everyone who does dungeons (the former impacts on everyone who takes part in the economy). Personally I don’t see an inflation issue, dungeons aren’t run that much by too many people in the community and the time taken to get through these dungeons for most people is considerable, the reward is not superior to the effort and time taken (unlike FotM atm). People should be rewarded well for the more difficult content in the game. The issue of some dungeons being more rewarding than others is a big one. Players don’t need incentives to run one dungeon over another, that will make doing certain paths very difficult to find a group for. Hopefully rebalancing dungeon paths to retain their difficult but perhaps not take as long is one of the things the dungeon team is looking at.

Shiren.9532:

Inflation and dungeon run value are issues which impact on everyone who does dungeons (the former impacts on everyone who takes part in the economy). Personally I don’t see an inflation issue, dungeons aren’t run that much by too many people in the community and the time taken to get through these dungeons for most people is considerable, the reward is not superior to the effort and time taken (unlike FotM atm). People should be rewarded well for the more difficult content in the game. The issue of some dungeons being more rewarding than others is a big one. Players don’t need incentives to run one dungeon over another, that will make doing certain paths very difficult to find a group for. Hopefully rebalancing dungeon paths to retain their difficult but perhaps not take as long is one of the things the dungeon team is looking at.

Rewards for FoTM sucks unless you get very lucky. I am lvl 17 fractals now and made less than 10g (I am using t6 mats and ectos for myself, lets say 15g if you include mats) profit. I could have made 50+ gold doing AC in that time.

Endless whine. “We are poor, give us gold”. We have a patch for a lot of gold. “We are rich, remove gold”. Now you ask a patch removing gold. Isn’t it a bit pathetic?

Wow… people will whine about anything.

Without AC having good silver drops people would stop running it completely. Higher tier dungeons not only drop cores/lodestones but you can convert the tokens into 70+ rares that can be SALVAGED for ECTOS. 1 run of CoF for example is 2 guaranteed rares; if you get 2 ectos from that you beat out an AC run easily. CoE you can do the same and you got a chance at CHARGED LODESTONES (i used to farm CoE like mad and made more money from charged lodestones when they were 2g50s than i did from AC seed runs)

A legendery as the situation is needs about 200 hours farm?maybe bit less,maybe more!if you nerf the gold farm for some easier dungeons then acquiring them would be farther than frustrating and i guess a reason to stop playing for some.If you have a problem that Arah or CoE arent rewarding enough then either stop duying there so your can actually farm or don’t “farm” there if you need more gold!Those 2 instance are very good for there looks,so imo they worth the time.And to close,its quite meany to screw everyone else cause u simply don’t wanna go there!

I can’t believe it. I mean, really. I can’t believe it.
Before the patch, dungeons were a pretty inefficient way of getting gold; Orr was way faster. That couldn’t be the case, since dungeons were advertised as a high-level instance required (high-risk=high rewards). Dungeons actually gave about 50-60s before this patch… so the difference isn’t immense.
People complained the rewards weren’t enough. Anet, for once, listened. Now dungeoning is rewarding as it should be: playing a more challenging instance to get a bit more gold than mindlessy farming Plinx.
I can’t, honestly, believe that someone is complaining about a good thing. With the nerf of Orr, running dungeons is the only efficient way of making some money in this gold-sink filled game.
What about AC giving more money? Have you ever really thought about the reason why? Because ANET is a bunch of idiots? Not really. AC has no chance of dropping lodestones and cores, you can’t salvage the rares (you get with tokens) for ectos, no high level jewels.
But okay, let’s reduce the silver rewards by 50s. Then what? They’ll keep on farming CoF, since it’s faster. Well, let’s also nerf CoF. Good, they’ll move into TA. And so on, and so forth. In fact, emptying some dungeons in favor of others is a bright idea. Never thought about that.
No gold nerf will solve the fact that Arah is way longer than AC, with Lupicus being the nightmare of any baddie (bug fixes would help more). No more efficient dungeons to make gold? They’ll find a way to farm bandits in Queensdale, since that’s the point of farming. Efficiency.
Raise the droprate of lodestones, instead of this nonsense suggestion to cripple the money income even more. Hell, really. We’ll reach a point where we’ll pay gold to have the luxury of playing.

I just hate looting a boss/champion and seeing copper coin-icon.

Venirto.4208:

AC is not only the easiest but also the most rewarding dungeon atm, something is clearly wrong here…

Yes, something is wrong, the rewards for the other dungeons suck. They tried the nerfing rewards thing when they moved all the tokens to the end. You know what happened? People started skipping bosses. You know who I don’t skip anymore, Kohler. You know why, he gives 10 silver + 3 silver from his bag.

You know what would make other dungeons more appealing, rewards proportional to their challenge and the time it takes to complete them. Arah should give 60+40 tokens per path and 50 silver at the end. CoE should give more for the time it takes to complete, especially for path 2 and 3.

The other dungeons should be rewarding, they are not. The solution is to make them rewarding (and fix the bugs that have been left in for months) it is that simple.

More t6 mats and lodestones would be the best solution in my opinion.

I’m glad my previous post directed the discussion toward “AC is fine, buff other dungeons’ rewards”.

Please God I hope the devs read and appreciate what is being said here. Arah and the high end dungeons desperately need better rewards compared to the lower level dungeons. 60 tokens for a path of Arah is not enough, whereas 60 tokens for a path of AC is perfectly fine. 26s for finishing a run of AC is perfect, but 26s for finishing a run of Arah is a slap in the face. That said, I still believe that above all else (like I and others have said already) lodestones and Cores are the single best way that the developers could improve the value of investing time in higher level dungeons. Guaranteed cores and / or lodestones would do leaps and bounds for making those dungeons worth it to run.

This is exactly what GW 2 needs : even less reasons to play the old dungeons.

Yeah, you should be rewarded the same for 20 minutes in AC as you are for 6 hours on Arah 4.

What a silly post, Mr. Hrouda. I see a lot of words there but no real substance.

I think the blanket fix to dungeon rewards helped a lot. It’s a huge step in the right direction, and I’m very glad the developers heard us loud and clear there. Still, I do think there’s more work to be done.

I agree with Rob that rewards shouldn’t be based solely on time, but in general, things take time because they are more difficult. If everything in Arah were as easy as everything in AC, I doubt anyone would mind! That it is the hardest dungeon, however, is virtually indisputable. There is always the argument that “every dungeon is easy for a well-prepared team”, but there is a measure of objective difficulty inherent in many dungeons that are steps above that seen in, for instance, AC. Some tuning would be great, and so long as the team is constantly making tweaks, that is good news to me.

P.S. I still think the lodestone / core idea is a great way to encourage people to do tougher dungeons.

Maybe there should be more items you can exchange for tokens. Such as cores and lodestones.

Or maybe have a special token vendor (or mystic forge) who sales special items for specific tokens and the item will change periodically so that dev can adjust fairness of rewards from each dungeon can be easily adjusted. So for now, with AC and CoF token you can get some uninteresting items while with CoE or Arah tokens you can get more valuable items.

Robert Hrouda.1327:

Right now, with the way our dungeons are balanced, it’s not an easy thing to nerf/buff/balance the rewards for each dungeon individually compared to other dungeons. Even within a single dungeon’s paths there can be different difficulties (Detha vs Hodgins for example), so making AC reward different from CoE would still not be entirely fair.
….

Rest assured though, that we are not done with loot changes. We are always analyzing, evaluating, and changing as needed to try and make things better.

…..

To sum up your point. Wouldn’t difficulty measure by the time it take to finish it?

If so, why people get more reward for doing easier dungeon FASTER and get MORE REWARD. While doing HARDER dungeon LONGER and get LESS reward.

It would be like telling, here is the easy one, do this one only cause it’s quick and easy, better reward too, don’t do that hard one over there cause it’s bad take too long and not worth the time for too little reward.

Then what is the point for Developers to waste all these time making 7 dungeons not worth doing and why not just make 1 dungeon, AC, save time effort and development cost.

I don’t say we should give more or give less, but my point is, please make it FAIR. So people don’t spend 30 and get 3 and not spend 45 and get only 1.

They definitely care about all of the dungeons. Notice that Rob didn’t say “Time invested doesn’t matter at all”, he just remarked that he feels that dungeon difficulty matters more than dungeon time investment. Note this key statement of his:

Robert Hrouda.1327:

My feelings towards Arah vs AC rewarding is of course that there is an imbalance due to time that is fairly steep, but rewards shouldn’t be based solely on time, but also on difficulty.

See how he clearly denotes his understanding of the imbalance in Arah vs. AC? That’s the most extreme example, of course, but I’m sure he’s aware that dungeons like CoE are leaps and bounds more difficult than AC, and also more time-consuming, and thus deserving of better rewards. These tweaks will be present in future, as-of-yet undetermined, patches for sure.

If so, why people get more reward for doing easier dungeon FASTER and get MORE REWARD. While doing HARDER dungeon LONGER and get LESS reward.

It would be like telling, here is the easy one, do this one only cause it’s quick and easy, better reward too, don’t do that hard one over there cause it’s bad take too long and not worth the time for too little reward.

Then what is the point for Developers to waste all these time making 7 dungeons not worth doing and why not just make 1 dungeon, AC, save time effort and development cost.

Maybe not everyone wants to do things easy in life. Some people actually like a challenge and a bit of variety.

THM.2036:

Maybe not everyone wants to do things easy in life. Some people actually like a challenge and a bit of variety.

Yes the casual one, the one who only on couple hours to find something fun to do, cause they have too many golds and time and not care about repair cost.

But the dedicated players, who sit there for hours and hours to play (farm) the game. Why pick the painful hard path to do? It’s like if you know you have to drive to work every day. Would you want a shorter path to work? rather than long path so you can enjoy the beautiful street.

Why nerf AC instead of buffing the other dungeons to it’s level? The only thing nerf does is pissing people off, whereas buffing other things to the imbalanced one’s level would please a lot of people while reaching the same result.

Looking forward to the improved rewards on harder dungeons. I do like the “blanket fix”, it was much needed, but it made a short and easy dungeon like Ascalonian Catacombs or Citadel of Flames way too rewarding in comparison to many other dungeons.
I do hope these new rewards don’t just mean more cash, but maybe focus more on handing out more high level crafting materials, cores/lodestones and a higher chance for looting rares/exotics.

wtf.. OP you serious ?

azizul.8469:

wtf.. OP you serious ?

Yes, its serious.

Malediktus.9250:

Yes, its serious.

Surely you cannot be serious.

People will always find a way to get rewards afap.
Also, just about everything in pve is rather easy and brainless just because theres a set amount of possible situations that can occur. That’s why pve is easy: we can adapt to those situations quite fast.

So essentially it’s not really adviced to reduce some of the easier dungeonrewards as they all have a specific approach, once you know how to do them properly then theres not really a challenge anymore and they all on the same level.