New Raid-Composition with higher DPS

New Raid-Composition with higher DPS

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Posted by: EpheSOSIayer.6370

EpheSOSIayer.6370

Hello guys,

last month I presented a new Druid Build for Raids, but unfourtunately it does not fit in the current meta compositions. So I built a completly new comp around it which I want to introduce to you right now. Because its a mirror-comp I will only explain the 5 player group.

The basic Idea
Like I already explained in my previous post, I don’t like the fact that 60% of the players task in raids is to buff 40% damag-dealers. Form my point of view this is not a good balance. On the other hand, I like specialization of roles in raids and want to push this along. The build I introduced here opens the possibility to replace the Warrior in the raid with a third pure dps class. Having in mind that you play wihtout banners and empower allies in your group force you to play a with condis.

The Composition
I’m obviously a ranger/druid main, so I used only condi rangers for condi dps, because I can test this. This is not a bad choice since it has the highest dps of all classes on small hitboxes at the moment.
| Druid | Chrono | Condi-Ranger | Condi-Ranger | Condi-Ranger |

DPS Comparison
For DPS comparison I used the DPS values by qT. I think that these dps values are not realistic, but its up to you to think about that. 22k for Condi-PS and 39k for tempests are too high with respect to a real raid environment.
I took two different comps for comparison: Another pure condi comp and a standard power comp. You can see the dps values in the table attached, I didn’t take the DPS of druid and chrono into account, because they change only minor.

As you can see for big hitboxes the tempest composition is till the best, even if you take lower dps values. For small hitboxes you would usually take thiefs instead of tempests which do less damage than the 2nd comp which is a current meta condi group. However this do less dps than my suggested comp which is the third one. As you can see warrior buffs only reduce the dps of a condi ranger to ~29,8k.

Build Changes
Chrono does not need any changes compared to the current meta, but I’m not a chrono specialist. For Condi Rangers I would suggest to only take Healing Spring if you need the condi remove, because the druids will gain better regeneration with an 100% uptime. I would recommend to use “We heal as one!” to buff your pet in addition, e.g. after swap. Furthermore, one condi ranger needs to run Sun Spirit if you want protection from the druids.

Alternatives
There are several modifications which can be made. At first, since my comp is a mirror comp you can combine it with any other mirror comp. For example you can run one half with this group and the other half with a berserker tempest comp. If you want to replace the chrono with another condi ranger this is possible, but it will reduce the overall dps, since every condi ranger will lose ~6k dps. Furthermore one druid need to tank. As a final remark this comp takes into account that you want to run two druids with at least 500+ healing power. If you are running only one healer you will run with a condi druid I guess and you don’t have a mirror comp anymore. Therefore dps can increase of course.

Video
I evaluated the stuff explained here with a group yesterday. Please notice, that I build this group via LFG and I didn’t checked gear/food/experience. Fruthermore, no one had play in this comp before and some mistakes were done (e.g. one sun spirit was missing). Nevertheless it costs us half an hour to kill gorseval (~4 tries).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFbxJ3LRyrE

Future Work
I need to try more raid bossed than gorseval and I welcome it if someone share the experience with this composition here, because I don’t have the resources at the moment. Furthermore, other condi classes like engi or necro could increase the dps, but I’m not an expert with these classes.

Thank you for the time you read this and feel free to give some comments to my build/composition. I will read them all.

Edit: Link to the Might-Druid build: http://de.gw2skills.net/editor/?vNAQRBMhxG2J9qQNrYrKgvKARrYxQwg3qh1yqTrL21DYCArrGwFzdyE-TxROAB3p8relgGfSAAY/h50P89TAoO1fCAcA8e37e3DO+4jP+4j793f/93fvUA+t3C-e

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(edited by EpheSOSIayer.6370)

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Posted by: apharma.3741

apharma.3741

It would be helpful if you posted the gw2skills.net link to the builds you’re using. Currently using a tablet and having to hunt through your previous post and then being bounced to the YouTube app is making it a pain to see what’s going on with the different builds.

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Posted by: EpheSOSIayer.6370

EpheSOSIayer.6370

Thanks for the hint. I added the Link at the end of the post.

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Posted by: apharma.3741

apharma.3741

I take it the condi druids are just what qT uses. In that set up it works but would need for bosses to not really be moving as moving would reduce the condi rangers damage a lot.

I’m also seeing it probably relies on blasting fire fields to some extent to get might. This works if the whole raid is running rangers or classes that drop a load of fire fields. Where this build falls down would be moving bosses and if you start including things like fresh air tempests as they would be dropping lightning fields everywhere. Needless to say this doesn’t play well with others so it looks like it is mostly a niche build.

That isn’t to say it’s not creative or going to easily complete the raid bosses it will be fine for, it will, and it’s some really nice thinking behind it. Sadly outside of your own created raid groups you’ll have a hard time convincing anyone to give this a shot. Not because it’s bad but because most people in LFG are generally ignorant and not very creative.

Anyway best of luck with further refinements and tests that you will no doubt do.

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Posted by: Fluffy.1932

Fluffy.1932

Some notes about your dps comparison:

  • If in an all condi group, Condi PS can take Burning Arrows instead of EA for a 1-2k dps increase.
  • Condi Ranger dps benchmarks were done with Banner of Strength which gives 170 condi damage.

I plan on taking a closer look at your post later because I find it very interesting, but I’d imagine the dps is more equal than you originally suggested.

Edit: Looks like you accounted for lack of buffs somehow, so disregard that bullet.

Fluffy Fuz
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(edited by Fluffy.1932)

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Posted by: Xcorpdog.5618

Xcorpdog.5618

While a cool concept, just quick looking says that you’ll realistically maintain 22 might since you’ll be at odds with both the chronos and the poison field on ranger. Beyond that your ramp up on might unless I am mistaken is exceeding long if you rely on druids quick drawing warhorn 5.
Losing both warriors from the comp also causes you the issue of making the Rangers pet swap near constantly for break bars by comparison.
And on small hit box elementalists and Rangers are roughly equal with ele having an easier time bursting the boss than a Ranger.
Not to mention bosses like slothsor cleanse conditions with every break bar hurting all condition builds.

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Posted by: NikeEU.7690

NikeEU.7690

Now the hard part: you have to prove it. Good luck.

[DnT]::Nike::
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Posted by: EpheSOSIayer.6370

EpheSOSIayer.6370

Thank you for your anwers. I think I have to repeat some arguments mentioned in the post about the druid build.

While a cool concept, just quick looking says that you’ll realistically maintain 22 might since you’ll be at odds with both the chronos and the poison field on ranger. Beyond that your ramp up on might unless I am mistaken is exceeding long if you rely on druids quick drawing warhorn 5.

You do not need to blast fire fields all the time. Without any combo finisher you reach 20 stacks might with an uptime nearly 100% (pet+horn5+spirit). That means that with two out of 4/5 blasts on a fire field you would already reach 26 stacks. Even if you are running not only condi ranger there are other classes that make sure that there are at least sometimes firefields to blast. Based on my experience I had NEVER any problems with might as long I do the correct rota. That the might last longer than with PS is a benefit if you tought about sabetha cannons for example. And of course you have the chronos which I haven’t taken into account yet.

Losing both warriors from the comp also causes you the issue of making the Rangers pet swap near constantly for break bars by comparison.

This is right. Thats why I took the maximum dps values from the qT table as a comparison even if they are unrealistic, because things like CC or throwing banners do not play a role. I think its legit to do the dps comparison for the rangers then wihtout CC, too.

Not to mention bosses like slothsor cleanse conditions with every break bar hurting all condition builds.

I agree with you in this point. If you want to do a new record on kill timer this is important and I would not run it on sloth.

I take it the condi druids are just what qT uses. In that set up it works but would need for bosses to not really be moving as moving would reduce the condi rangers damage a lot.

Moving bosses are a weakness of condi ranger thats right. But for nearly every boss there are tactics around that minimize moving. There is no boss around which is constantly moving around randomly. Beside nearly every dps class lack on some dps if the boss is moving.

Some notes about your dps comparison:

  • Condi Ranger dps benchmarks were done with Banner of Strength which gives 170 condi damage.

I already calculate this in as you can see in the attacked dps table.

Again, this build assumes that you running two healer. I think if you guys do a speedclear you will never run with two healers (with healing power), so please have this in mind. I trained many new players and also think about simplicity of builds for example.

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Posted by: Rising Dusk.2408

Rising Dusk.2408

  • Condi Ranger dps benchmarks were done with Banner of Strength which gives 170 condi damage.

This is a major point and is something that I was going to bring up. Replacing the PS Warrior means your Chrono, Druid, and DPS classes are losing out on banners. Banner of discipline is important for so many reasons, as without it you won’t reach optimal critical hit chance. This is especially important for condi ranger because of Sharpened Edges, among other things. Banner of Strength gives 170 condition damage, which is substantial.

Your DPS comparisons aren’t apples-to-apples because you’d have to reestimate condi ranger in the absence of Warrior buffs, which would be much lower. It’s not as simple as just replacing the Might generation; that part is easy in the grand scheme of things (eles used to do it long before warriors did).

[VZ] Valor Zeal – Stormbluff Isle – Looking for steady, casual-friendly NA raiders!

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Posted by: EpheSOSIayer.6370

EpheSOSIayer.6370

Again, the calculated dps values are without banners! Please check the dps comaprison again. I wrote it there!

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Posted by: Fluffy.1932

Fluffy.1932

Here are some of my thoughts/worries on a boss by boss basis.

VG: Due to the movement of the boss, condi ranger can lose a lot of damage. Stacking more than is needed for red might not be a good idea. Condi PS can position their aoes in such a way that the boss stays in them as it moves. Also, it is favorable to have burst dps for the split phase for green guardian. Every time he phases he cleanses condis, and condi builds have a ramp-up time for their dps.

Gors: Also removes condis at phase, reducing the benefit of condi builds. You pointed out that tempests would give higher dps. Also, you’re losing a lot of orb clearing potential by removing tempests and condi ps.

Sab: I honestly don’t know how good condi ranger is at doing cannons, but I feel like burst is better than condi for those. It might be a little more difficult to clear turrets, but I don’t think it’ll be too bad. Condi can speed up the time on the last champ quite nicely.

Sloth: Moving around a bunch makes me question the damage. At least one ranger in each group would need to bring Protect Me to account for the lack of Gale Song from eles. The cc bar is kinda big so everyone would have to pull their weight.

Trio: This should work fine.

Matty: Moves around a lot. Not easy to flank. Without tempests or condi ps your rangers might have to specifically target icy patches.

Escort: I’m not your puppy.

KC: Condi is just bad on this fight and tempests are amazing.

Xera: You wouldn’t have ranged clearing ability.

Those are just some things to think about before jumping in to this comp. However reading the OP, it doesn’t seem like you’re trying to prove that this is better than the meta. It seems like you made an alternative that can also get the job done even if a little less optimal. For that goal I think you were very successful.

I think this is a good comp for groups that find themselves short on warriors and with a surplus of rangers.

Fluffy Fuz
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Posted by: thrag.9740

thrag.9740

Interesting. Although I think a lot of pugs like the safety net of double staff magi druid, and so who knows if we will ever see this in pugs.

I am concerned about your might generation however. There are many times in the gorse video where your might isn’t 25, and sometimes drops fairly low (like 18 and sometimes even lower). I’m no druid expert, so correct me if I am wrong. But sword auto stacks more might on you, and runes of strength 4 also puts more might on you, but none of this might is shared to your party. So presumably you have the most might in your party, and your condi rangers have even less might than that. If this is the case, the 29k dps numbers may be too high.

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Posted by: EpheSOSIayer.6370

EpheSOSIayer.6370

@Fluffy, thanks for the boss overview, I agree with you on the most points. I’m pretty sure that Sabetha is the best boss for this comp. I’ve never tried cannons with condi, but as long as you do allways the same roation you can try out at which % life you can jump back. I think no one cares about the 1 or 2 more shots on the plattform.

Beside that I think you mentioned only the negative aspects, but the meta ist perfect and it has problems, too. As an example consider gorseval: With a condi setup CC-phase is easier, because you don’t get such high retal dmg.

It seems that there is some skepticism around with stacking might. I will create a video and an overview to make things clear this afternoon.

@thrag, you can run full magi if you want with this build, there is no monk rune and no staff, but I have already compared the healing abilities in the build-thread.

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Posted by: Fay.2357

Fay.2357

As an example consider gorseval: With a condi setup CC-phase is easier, because you don’t get such high retal dmg.

That’s not really true at all. A condie ranger actually performing a dps rotation is producing a TON of rapid hits from the aoes, the split axe shotgun, and the crossfire spam. In your gorse vid you can see the rangers lose a ton of health to residual aoes they leave behind. Maybe they’ll take slightly less damage than a tempest going full on dps, but it’s clearly not a difference that’s significant at all.

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Posted by: SuinegTsol.1729

SuinegTsol.1729

pretending this build is a try to make a “only ranger/condi” composition its great, but the main problem with this is the reasons why you use a ps for might and a druid for heal. You could easily reprace both of them wit one wh-ele or mace-ventari revenant. Both provide more than needed heal while maintaining 25 might + fury and if u want protection.
But you do not take them because you do not take a ps for might nor a druid for heals. You take a boths for dmg buffs aka banner / gotl / spirits /… Just because even if u pretend they deal 0 dmg with 3 supporters providing 40% mor dmg for others you still do more dmg than with 5 full dps builds:
(0 + 0 + 0 + 1 + 1) * 1,4 * 1,4 *1,4 = 5,488 > 5 = (1+1+1+1+1) * 1 (strictly simplifyed!!!)

that been said back to your suggestion:
-if u got a chrono let him tank^^ he wont lose any dps or utility doing so
- in my opinion you invest too much into might, why why dont you abuse your firefilds a bit more like all ranger takeing a salamander drake for blast finisher, or let one use warhorn aswell, so you could use dmg/heal runes?
- on more experienced squads the druid could go condi aswell (use others fire fields-mb 2 druids 2 ranger)

having a not too stuipid tank you won’t ever get problems with boss movement and if u wanna check out your dps, do a run on KC and find out

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Posted by: EpheSOSIayer.6370

EpheSOSIayer.6370

@SuinegTsol, while the core of your example is right you assume that every support class buffs every damage dealer with 40% dps. This is not true, at least not in every case. I do several tests on different classes on how they increase the dps of it. As you can see a condi ranger without banners and “empower allies” do 2,2k dps less than with these buffs which leads to 29,8k. So the warrior buffs only increase the dps of a condi ranger about 6.875%. Doing your simplifyed calculation again with this value instead of 40% leads to the fact that this is not true all the time. If you don’t believe me the only option is to test it on your own ingame. The only thing I did not take into account is that the dps of the chrono will be less than usual. I don’t know how much dps a chrono(tank) but its can’t be that high. Beside that its diffficult to compare druid dps because he uses a complete different build.

I don’t want to discuss about the dps anymore, because under idealasistic circumstances and a small hitbox the dps is better, there is no way around it. But you can discuss about how realistic these idealistic circumstances are. I totally agree if they aren’t and the question is how far?

For all of you how don’t understand how enough might is generated I uploaded the following video:
https://youtu.be/Gb-SVQ_GIfE
I assumed that there is a fire field for every 2nd blast finisher. I didn’t count with any other more or less random sources of might, but there are other blast finisher (astral3) and the chronos of course which generates might aswell. In the video I don’t get might from any other sources, that would not go to every group member.

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Posted by: NikeEU.7690

NikeEU.7690

Stop arguing about it and go prove it.

[DnT]::Nike::
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Posted by: SuinegTsol.1729

SuinegTsol.1729

a tank chrono is quite the same as your regular quickness-chrono, mb one trinket more, but still kind of non existend dps (but tbh with saved cd’s he can solo the 100cm splitting part^^)
so the question left is did you found the secret dps build that prooves condi dmg can be greather than direct dmg…

How about a race between DnT with regular build and your team? Maybe anet would sponsor a betaspot for the upcoming raidwing for the winner!?!

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Posted by: thrag.9740

thrag.9740

Thank you for the might upkeep demonstration video, that makes it easier to understand your gorseval video.

It seems like the only reason your might drops at gorseval is during the spirit phase, the frost spirit can’t move with you. So I guess this builds weakness is movement, which isn’t too bad, as that is also a weakness of condi ranger.

So where might this be optimal? VG seems like a good place to try, as long as your distorting greens. Xera also seems like a good place as long as you use a strategy that minimizes movement. Sabetha too maybe, but i don’t know how good condi rangers are for cannon duty. That burning on karde though lol.

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Posted by: Coconut.7082

Coconut.7082

I don’t want to discuss about the dps anymore, because under idealasistic circumstances and a small hitbox the dps is better, there is no way around it. But you can discuss about how realistic these idealistic circumstances are. I totally agree if they aren’t and the question is how far?

This started as a discussion of a unique idea, but now you are just claiming that DPS is better, where is the proof though?
All I see is an average PuG Gorseval video with below average DPS.
What is the idealistic circumstances in your point of view? At the moment I don’t see a single raid boss on which it will work better, But if you do, and you want to keep claiming it is, go prove it on that particular boss, otherwise you’ll just embarrass yourself.

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Posted by: TexZero.7910

TexZero.7910

Maybe it’s just me…

but i’m looking at the video posted and just dumbfounded. Like it’s cool we get it rangers can stack might too. But your claim is “New Raid-Composition with higher DPS”….

I’m waiting for the proof and just not seeing any.

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Posted by: ADTempys.6382

ADTempys.6382

TBH the condi PS numbers are super low as it should be at least 2K higher

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Posted by: palouff.2956

palouff.2956

The meta is changing at an alarming rate guys

(edited by palouff.2956)

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Posted by: NikeEU.7690

NikeEU.7690

After looking deeper the might stacking druid does enable an alternative and viable comp but there are big ways to improve what the OP is doing.

First, the third dps should be replaced with a full dps condi berserker warrior to bring banners and ea (if using eles) and still make very good dps.

Second only one druid should be minstrel and that one tanking. The second druid should be berserker with strength runes and exotic trinkets and platinum dubloons to lose as little dps as possible from that.

All said? The dps is roughly equal to current meta. It’s certainly not higher. It’s probably not worth the druid and the warrior re gearing just to end up at the same place as we are already especially since this comp loses versatility on the druid weapon and pet choices and warrior build choices.

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Posted by: EpheSOSIayer.6370

EpheSOSIayer.6370

After looking deeper the might stacking druid does enable an alternative and viable comp but there are big ways to improve what the OP is doing.

First, the third dps should be replaced with a full dps condi berserker warrior to bring banners and ea (if using eles) and still make very good dps.

Second only one druid should be minstrel and that one tanking. The second druid should be berserker with strength runes and exotic trinkets and platinum dubloons to lose as little dps as possible from that.

At first I have to thank you for the refinement of the composition. It seems that there were too many changes at the same time suggested by me. However, I asked for compositions which would fit into this might build when it was presented some months ago. Unfourtunately no one suggested that build these days.

Reading this calm me down even if the dps is “only” equal. After reading escpeially the last posts it seems that a lot of player make fun of me about my idea.

Finally, I want to explain what I calculated and why I said that the dps of this composition is higher, in order to get a picture of it. The core of the dps comparison is the attached table. I took all dps values there from the qT webside, if you don’t agreee with them then please contact qT and don’t discuss it here. The only value which is from me, is the 29,8k. I did tests on my own in training area and got this value. I think every payer which did comments here plays a condi ranger or at least know someone who does. I assume that it is not that hard to go in the training area and do this test twice: One without banners and a second with banners for evaluation. It seems that a lot of pleople don’t trust me on that value, which I didn’t expect. With comp2 I basically tried to build the highest dps for a meta comp on a small hitbox by simply take the highest dps of the qT table. If I did something wrong by doing this, please let me know. Again, I’m not an expert in any class beside the ranger.

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Posted by: NikeEU.7690

NikeEU.7690

The biggest issue is this comp is very inflexible. Your druids are locked into sword horn. In many fights the meta strategies require off hand axe, for example. For many fights it will be trying to fight a square peg into a round hole.

So if you are designing a contest of what comp can kill the 10m hp golem fastest it’s worth looking at but in practice you’ll find that more often than not you are better off with the traditional meta builds for the specific reason that they are more flexible.

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Posted by: EpheSOSIayer.6370

EpheSOSIayer.6370

Second only one druid should be minstrel and that one tanking. The second druid should be berserker with strength runes and exotic trinkets and platinum dubloons to lose as little dps as possible from that.

I don’t understand why one should take platinum dubloons. If you take all 6 places for them you get 24% more Boon duration. Do you want to remove the sigill of concentration? I have already created a dps build in my previous thread. I need some more information about how you get the missing 11% boon duration and what sigill you want to put in the free spot.

However I’m not convinced about the dps variant. I didn’t test the dps on my own, but its lower than the normal S/A berserker druid, so I think it is not more than 15k. In my opinion the dps build is just a bad version of a PS, gaining other buffs and do a little bit heal.

I think its better running a normal meta comp in the 2nd subgroup, if you don’t want to have a 2nd “real” healer. Then you are able to take a condi druid or if you want S/A berseker and have more felexibility and I guess more dps. As a reminder, the 1st subgroup stays at suggested with a mistrel tank healer druid.

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Posted by: NikeEU.7690

NikeEU.7690

Concentration sigil is a good idea. I wasn’t considering it.

Strength runes 45
Nature magic 20
Concentration 33

98% should be good.

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Posted by: NikeEU.7690

NikeEU.7690

Concentration sigil is a good idea. I wasn’t considering it.

Strength runes 45
Nature magic 20
Concentration 33

98% should be good.

Fwiw I was thinking…

Strength runes 45
Plat dubs 24
Nature 20
Bountiful stones 10

To get 99%.

Sigil of concentration is almost certainly better though.

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Posted by: EpheSOSIayer.6370

EpheSOSIayer.6370

Hi,

I want to do again a short dps comparison because of the last balance patch. To keep things simple I will do very less changes. And the most important point: This comparison is based on SMALL hitboxes, so please don’t remind me tempest do higher dps…

I want to start with a reference comp, which I think has a high chance to get meta for small hitboxes:
Group1: Chrono|Condi-PS|Heal-Druid|Engi|Ranger
Group2: Chrono|Condi-PS|Condi-Druid|Engi|Ranger

I hope you can all agreee with me, that this comp has a good dps in the current meta. I want to show you that the following setup has a higher dps:

Group1: Chrono|Ranger|Might-Druid|Engi|Ranger
Group2: the same as the meta group above

At first I want to compare the dps based on the dps benchmarks published by qT, well known that I have to care about the buffs. I will discuss that later.
The dps of the druid is nearly the same and it is on a low level so I ignore this. The dps of the condi ranger is 6,1k higher than the condi PS, do what I have to show you is that the loss of the other buffs are lower that 6,1k. So here we go. These are the things the comp have to compensate:
- No empower allies on Group1. I did only tests for condi ranger and it was about 200-300dps less than with it. So I be fair and take 5 times the 300, so we are at -1,5k
- The remain Condi PS has to take both banners so he lose his “Shattering Blow”. To be honest I don’t have a Condi PS and can’t check how much dps loss its is, but I’m pretty sure it isn’t 3,5k.
- The last point: Whats about the might? I already showed a video about the rota (look above) and preconditions which I need (basically how much firefields to blast). With the upcoming of classes like condi ranger/engi/warrior and the F/A nerf there are much more firefields around than before the patch. If you are still not convinced I already tested the suggested comp on sabetha and the might (in my subgroup) was really good. Please check the video if you don’t trust me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylGu1gaB7bk
There is no source of might which I gain only myself (I don’t run strength runes), so every stack you see in the video are from me or other sources of my subgroup.

Did I forgot something? Please let me know or just discuss about my suggestion

(edited by EpheSOSIayer.6370)

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Posted by: TexZero.7910

TexZero.7910

If i’m reading those “DPS” graphs correctly…your overall contribution to the group was 2%. (ranging from at lowest 980 to a peak of about 4k).

Can you reasonably explain why anyone would take that, over a Condi PS which would not only bring the same might capabilities but more damage…..

(edited by TexZero.7910)

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Posted by: Rising Dusk.2408

Rising Dusk.2408

Can you reasonably explain why anyone would take that, over a Condi PS which would not only bring the same might capabilities but more damage…..

The idea is that you replace the Magi Druid (1k) + Condi PS (27.4k) with Condi Ranger (33.5k) + Might Druid (1k).

My biggest concern with this strategy is your GotL uptime. You lost all GotL stacks all over that video and contributed poorly to its uptime with very low CA generation, which is a major net raid DPS loss. Magi staff Druid guarantees that your raid has 5 stacks 100% of the time.

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Posted by: Fluffy.1932

Fluffy.1932

@TexZero: I think the idea is to take the might druid over a magi druid. This way you’re replacing the condi warrior with a condi ranger.

@EpheSOSlayer: What confuses me about your latest post is that you say might druid for both subgroups and then say that the warrior would take double banner, but there is no warrior in either subgroup. When you said ‘the same as above’ I read that as ‘the same as Group1’ but I think you meant ‘the same as the meta comp’.

As for how much of a dps difference shattering blow is, for me personally it is about 1.5k. I was getting ~23k without and about 24.5k with, no infusions and sigil of earth instead of geomancy. So you’re right about it not being 3.5k.

It seems to me like this would have higher dps in theory. It certainly seems like the might and healing in that video was good. A lot of the concerns previously expressed in this thread about its actual viability on various fights still stand, but on golem-like bosses it could be good.

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Posted by: TexZero.7910

TexZero.7910

Can you reasonably explain why anyone would take that, over a Condi PS which would not only bring the same might capabilities but more damage…..

The idea is that you replace the Magi Druid (1k) + Condi PS (27.4k) with Condi Ranger (33.5k) + Might Druid (1k).

My biggest concern with this strategy is your GotL uptime. You lost all GotL stacks all over that video and contributed poorly to its uptime with very low CA generation, which is a major net raid DPS loss. Magi staff Druid guarantees that your raid has 5 stacks 100% of the time.

Okay, point still stands. At no point is the rangers 33.5k contribution required (any other class can fill this dps spot). What people do want is buff uptime, which even this might druid build and video was lacking.

Might just be me, but i’m not seeing a realistic reason to have such a build used within the party unless someone is just at Ranger OTP, and if that’s the point there’s plenty of viable ranger builds for them to pick from to be a part of a raid group (so much so that there’s 0 need to pigeonhole yourself into a sub-par build).

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Posted by: EpheSOSIayer.6370

EpheSOSIayer.6370

@fluffy, thank you for the hint. I made it a litte bit more clear which group was meant by “same as above”.

I want to argue a bit about the less GOTL stacks, there are multiple reasons for it.
- I don’t running elitle glyph / glyph of empowerment
- Individual missplay: I just forgot to use it.
And of course the refreshing rate of CA is not good at all, but this has basically other reasons.
- Sabetha has a very golem like nature, as long as you don’t do mistakes there is no source of dmg that fills CA. Every druid will have a problem with such bosses, if everyone is full life, your only chance to fill CA is with dps.
- In general, regeneration fills CA as well as other healing skills. If your group is low life, with regeneration CA fills automatically to 100% after a few seconds. I checked my video and 4:52 till 5:06 shows this very well, there you can count very easily the seconds of the regeneration ticks. Of course regeneration and direct heal have different pro/cons, so in some situations regeneration is better and vice versa.
- Another reson is that in this comp I gain regeneration mainly to my subgroup, so if the 2nd group is low they will not fill CA, because they donÄt have (my) regeneration. The build is able to gain regeneration to 10 players with an 100% uptime, so if you want to improve GOTL uptime, put the Condi PS + Might druid in the 3rd subgroub. I would not recommend it, because of the other buffs, but it is an option.