It’s the chain I beat you with until you
recognize my command!”
I wonder how people managed to finish dungeons when game launched. No veterans for help. No guides to look up. Somehow we still managed.
Because the current attitudes and beliefs about how people complete a dungeon today are beyond unnecessary (I know your post wasn’t meant as seriously as I’m responding to it). You don’t need to stack, you don’t need to stack might and fury (hell, half the pugs I join don’t do this), you don’t need to be in zerker and you certainly don’t need to bring two ele, one warrior, one guardian and one thief meta builds.
The current meta has become a low skill-cap crutch – dungeons are fast and easy when you all run zerker, all stack might, all run meta professions and builds and all LoS every mob.
Taking it to less of an extreme, there are multiple ways to reach 25 might stacks and perma fury. Many professions have powerful melee cleave weapons, many professions can apply vulnerability stacks and all professions have +% damage traits. We have pug groups thinking they need a speed clear, record breaking meta simply to get their daily dungeon gold grind done quickly and efficiently when that’s simply not the case.
I agree. But until the communities mindset on running dungeons is changed completely, you’ll still have all those parties thinking they need all that in order to do the dungeon, and will kick anyone and everyone until they find “the perfect party/build” setup. And I don’t think there is much we can do to change that, other than making more people aware that the “meta” isn’t a requirement for anything.
Its a shame 99% of my pug runs I do I am the only one stacking might and fury(often times for myself because might is scary and they run away), I am reasonably sure I am the only berserker in the party.
I dont normally look for the perfect party/ build but when I do get a group like that I am happy. Truly happy.
If anything the “meta” is a slight assurance that people have an idea of what to do.
Honestly this meta only nonsense really gets to me. I pug almost daily and have yet to be forced into anything resembling meta (though I am) There have always been ample groups that I could join that didnt have a req or make myself.
maybe Im lucky.
We have pug groups thinking they need a speed clear, record breaking meta simply to get their daily dungeon gold grind done quickly and efficiently when that’s simply not the case.
Are you saying that people not running meta builds can do their daily dungeon grind quickly and efficiently? Are you also defining “quickly/efficiently” for different people? Are you saying that running a reflect-less/non projectile destroying builds in pretty much any projectile heavy dungeon is efficient and that the vast majority of pugs would enjoy such ?
what I am trying to say is I think you are full of it.
I probably wont be able to reply so
(edited by DonQuack.9025)
We have pug groups thinking they need a speed clear, record breaking meta simply to get their daily dungeon gold grind done quickly and efficiently when that’s simply not the case.
Are you saying that people not running meta builds can do their daily dungeon grind quickly and efficiently? Are you also defining “quickly/efficiently” for different people? Are you saying that running a reflect-less/non projectile destroying builds in pretty much any projectile heavy dungeon is efficient and that the vast majority of pugs would enjoy such ?
what I am trying to say is I think you are full of it.
I probably wont be able to reply so
What I think he is saying, is that the difference between an efficient “speed clear” and a “normal” dungeon run isn’t so far apart as to make a huge noticable difference. As long as the party knows what to do. Heck even with new players never having set foot in a dungeon before, doing a run with them takes a couple of minutes longer at most. I think that the speed clear meta has exaggerate the time difference and began to imply that a non-meta speed run is longer by a difference of 10 minutes or more.
see you peeps need to start defining “normal” and adding the phrase know what to do.
I would argue by knowing what to do chances are you would meet 90% of the reqs of the “meta”
Couple of minutes longer? for a wholly new group? I think perhaps you overestimate new players. I just finished a 2 hour long hotw story mode.
It could have been faster but I purposely camped water cuz Im reasonably sure they were trolling me. 4 level 80’s cant do less than 1k dps. Im pretty sure its impossible. And if thats with a party of 3k+ ap on a story mode mission I cant imagine how long a party of new people who dont know what to do would take.
ot: the dps meter is quite possibly the worst thing to happen to me. before I would just rage. Now I know exactly why I rage. I can scream how are you dying and you have 3x my health you arent even in melee range.
:D I love this gaem.
(edited by DonQuack.9025)
. I think that the speed clear meta has exaggerate the time difference and began to imply that a non-meta speed run is longer by a difference of 10 minutes or more.
It’s highly variable, its not 1 time for non speed run and 1 time for speed run. It also depend on the popularity of the path. For exemple, the difference between a pug run of CoF path 1 and a record run is not that high because everybody know CoF path 1, it’s easy. Now the difference between a pug run of Arah vs record run? That’s freaking huge. Huge enough that I prefer to duo Arah with my friend than to ask for pugs that will make the run so much longer. Something that you will never see in more popular path/dungeons.
Lets take for exemple Arah path 4. First time I ran it, it took us 3 hours. Helped some guldmate that were doing it for the first time, it took use about 1,5 hour. I’m pretty sure with my regular dungeon friends I could do it between 45min-1hr. We are pretty good in dungeon, soloing several of them, but Arah path 4, i did it only 5 times over the last 2 years. The record for Arah path 4 is less than 19min. That’s a freaking huge difference.
Most normal dungeon path take around 30min with bad pugs, 15min with good pugs, but can be done in 3-5min in a real speed run situation. Some can even be done in 2-3min.
see you peeps need to start defining “normal” and adding the phrase know what to do.
I would argue by knowing what to do chances are you would meet 90% of the reqs of the “meta”
Couple of minutes longer? for a wholly new group? I think perhaps you overestimate new players. I just finished a 2 hour long hotw story mode.
It could have been faster but I purposely camped water cuz Im reasonably sure they were trolling me. 4 level 80’s cant do less than 1k dps. Im pretty sure its impossible. And if thats with a party of 3k+ ap on a story mode mission I cant imagine how long a party of new people who dont know what to do would take.
ot: the dps meter is quite possibly the worst thing to happen to me. before I would just rage. Now I know exactly why I rage. I can scream how are you dying and you have 3x my health you arent even in melee range.
:D I love this gaem.
Normal dungeon run: Not having a specialized party composition, not everyone using a meta build, or certain gear, most everyone is at least vaguely familar with how the dungeon works.
Speed clear meta run: Everyone is using zerk gear and meta build. Stacking might is a priority, specialized party composition is demanded, everyone is an “expert” in the dungeon.
As far as 2 hours in HotW story? Wow…The longest I spent on a dungeon was 3 hours on Aetherpath. Not a single person in the party had ever done it. But most of that was down time researching the boss fights, and puzzle components. So it might just have been a group trolling, or they were seriously not knowing a thing about how GW2 worked at all…
The birds.. the birds…
My only requirement while advertising a PUG run is 2000+ PWR, 40% crit & know what to do. Any one who could understand what I just said is good enough.
My only requirement while advertising a PUG run is 2000+ PWR, 40% crit & know what to do. Any one who could understand what I just said is good enough.
True, but it doesn’t help new players coming into dungeons. Which is the whole point of this thread. How can we help new players get into dungeons using the LFG without getting kicked simply because they are new players?
Using LFG when they don’t know anything is pretty much an indication that they are a loner. Then their only answer is [Noob] or watch LA guilds recruiting messages.
(edited by SkyChef.5432)
I wonder how people managed to finish dungeons when game launched. No veterans for help. No guides to look up. Somehow we still managed.
Because the current attitudes and beliefs about how people complete a dungeon today are beyond unnecessary (I know your post wasn’t meant as seriously as I’m responding to it). You don’t need to stack, you don’t need to stack might and fury (hell, half the pugs I join don’t do this), you don’t need to be in zerker and you certainly don’t need to bring two ele, one warrior, one guardian and one thief meta builds.
The current meta has become a low skill-cap crutch – dungeons are fast and easy when you all run zerker, all stack might, all run meta professions and builds and all LoS every mob.
Taking it to less of an extreme, there are multiple ways to reach 25 might stacks and perma fury. Many professions have powerful melee cleave weapons, many professions can apply vulnerability stacks and all professions have +% damage traits. We have pug groups thinking they need a speed clear, record breaking meta simply to get their daily dungeon gold grind done quickly and efficiently when that’s simply not the case.
What do you mean it’s not necessary?
I got maybe 2-3 hours to play. The difference between a group that finishes a dungeon in under 10 minutes and one that takes 20 minutes to an hour directly impacts whether I can do my dungeon tour.
What’s more, people who want to save time also do it because if you finish those dungeons faster, you get to have time to do something else.
Let’s give an example. I want Kudzu right now. That’s around 2k+ gold worth of mats. Or I want the dreamthistle skins which each are going for 1k since I missed a few before they retired them.
So doing 20-30 minutes a dungeon path with a deficient pug I might fit say 6 runs at 30 minutes or 9 with 20 minute clears. That’s essentially between 6 (let’s say 7 gold with dropped mats) to 9(10) gold for these runs.
At 7-10 gold per play session, it would take me 100 three hour play sessions for a dreamthistle skin (assuming that by 100 days the skins are not bought out and the prices go even higher for the few remaining) if I am earning 10 gold per play session, or 200 play sessions for the legendary.
That’s really bad.
People are obsessed over speed clears in this game because the rewards are total garbage and the gold grind for skins massive due to everything being attained via low RNG droprates (even with precursor collections in HoT, you can’t farm lodestones or t6 mats reliably so those ridiculous costs due to low RNG remain).
They started with tokens for dungeons and soon after that anet realized if people get their items after a a couple of weeks or a month, they couldn’t milk their wallets dry in the gem store with gem>gold exchange. So they went down the casino route of walling everything behind RNG and low rewards to frustrate enough players to spend some gold on their cash store to speed up the process.
I got maybe 2-3 hours to play. The difference between a group that finishes a dungeon in under 10 minutes and one that takes 20 minutes to an hour directly impacts whether I can do my dungeon tour.
What’s more, people who want to save time also do it because if you finish those dungeons faster, you get to have time to do something else.
I know this is the case and that people want fast, smooth runs. I respect that and stay away from exp/meta groups (which is only wise because, after many months of playing, I’m still a noob, especially in dungeons). But doesn’t respect go both ways? The problem is: Some gold-farmers will join any kind of group that’s available, completely ignoring what’s in the description.
If you need a fast group, join a fast group, please. Don’t join fun / noob /first-time / relaxed parties and then behave as if it was your normal evening rush. It makes the whole thing so frustrating for beginners, and there is a reason people join those kinds of groups. If inexperienced people should learn to respect those who want a smooth farm run (by learning the tactics & gearing up), experienced players should do the same and give others the opportunity to do it at their own pace.
(Not directed at you, personally, just wanted to get this off my chest.)
When I talk about meta I talk about a strict meta which excludes professions like mesmer, ranger, engineer and necromancer.
wut?
I wonder how people managed to finish dungeons when game launched. No veterans for help. No guides to look up. Somehow we still managed.
Because the current attitudes and beliefs about how people complete a dungeon today are beyond unnecessary (I know your post wasn’t meant as seriously as I’m responding to it). You don’t need to stack, you don’t need to stack might and fury (hell, half the pugs I join don’t do this), you don’t need to be in zerker and you certainly don’t need to bring two ele, one warrior, one guardian and one thief meta builds.
The current meta has become a low skill-cap crutch – dungeons are fast and easy when you all run zerker, all stack might, all run meta professions and builds and all LoS every mob.
Taking it to less of an extreme, there are multiple ways to reach 25 might stacks and perma fury. Many professions have powerful melee cleave weapons, many professions can apply vulnerability stacks and all professions have +% damage traits. We have pug groups thinking they need a speed clear, record breaking meta simply to get their daily dungeon gold grind done quickly and efficiently when that’s simply not the case.
What do you mean it’s not necessary?
I got maybe 2-3 hours to play. The difference between a group that finishes a dungeon in under 10 minutes and one that takes 20 minutes to an hour directly impacts whether I can do my dungeon tour.
What’s more, people who want to save time also do it because if you finish those dungeons faster, you get to have time to do something else.
Let’s give an example. I want Kudzu right now. That’s around 2k+ gold worth of mats. Or I want the dreamthistle skins which each are going for 1k since I missed a few before they retired them.
So doing 20-30 minutes a dungeon path with a deficient pug I might fit say 6 runs at 30 minutes or 9 with 20 minute clears. That’s essentially between 6 (let’s say 7 gold with dropped mats) to 9(10) gold for these runs.
At 7-10 gold per play session, it would take me 100 three hour play sessions for a dreamthistle skin (assuming that by 100 days the skins are not bought out and the prices go even higher for the few remaining) if I am earning 10 gold per play session, or 200 play sessions for the legendary.
That’s really bad.
People are obsessed over speed clears in this game because the rewards are total garbage and the gold grind for skins massive due to everything being attained via low RNG droprates (even with precursor collections in HoT, you can’t farm lodestones or t6 mats reliably so those ridiculous costs due to low RNG remain).
They started with tokens for dungeons and soon after that anet realized if people get their items after a a couple of weeks or a month, they couldn’t milk their wallets dry in the gem store with gem>gold exchange. So they went down the casino route of walling everything behind RNG and low rewards to frustrate enough players to spend some gold on their cash store to speed up the process.
please tell me how arena net take my real life money when convert ingame gold to gems.
I wonder how people managed to finish dungeons when game launched. No veterans for help. No guides to look up. Somehow we still managed.
Because the current attitudes and beliefs about how people complete a dungeon today are beyond unnecessary (I know your post wasn’t meant as seriously as I’m responding to it). You don’t need to stack, you don’t need to stack might and fury (hell, half the pugs I join don’t do this), you don’t need to be in zerker and you certainly don’t need to bring two ele, one warrior, one guardian and one thief meta builds.
The current meta has become a low skill-cap crutch – dungeons are fast and easy when you all run zerker, all stack might, all run meta professions and builds and all LoS every mob.
Taking it to less of an extreme, there are multiple ways to reach 25 might stacks and perma fury. Many professions have powerful melee cleave weapons, many professions can apply vulnerability stacks and all professions have +% damage traits. We have pug groups thinking they need a speed clear, record breaking meta simply to get their daily dungeon gold grind done quickly and efficiently when that’s simply not the case.
What do you mean it’s not necessary?
I got maybe 2-3 hours to play. The difference between a group that finishes a dungeon in under 10 minutes and one that takes 20 minutes to an hour directly impacts whether I can do my dungeon tour.
What’s more, people who want to save time also do it because if you finish those dungeons faster, you get to have time to do something else.
Let’s give an example. I want Kudzu right now. That’s around 2k+ gold worth of mats. Or I want the dreamthistle skins which each are going for 1k since I missed a few before they retired them.
So doing 20-30 minutes a dungeon path with a deficient pug I might fit say 6 runs at 30 minutes or 9 with 20 minute clears. That’s essentially between 6 (let’s say 7 gold with dropped mats) to 9(10) gold for these runs.
At 7-10 gold per play session, it would take me 100 three hour play sessions for a dreamthistle skin (assuming that by 100 days the skins are not bought out and the prices go even higher for the few remaining) if I am earning 10 gold per play session, or 200 play sessions for the legendary.
That’s really bad.
People are obsessed over speed clears in this game because the rewards are total garbage and the gold grind for skins massive due to everything being attained via low RNG droprates (even with precursor collections in HoT, you can’t farm lodestones or t6 mats reliably so those ridiculous costs due to low RNG remain).
They started with tokens for dungeons and soon after that anet realized if people get their items after a a couple of weeks or a month, they couldn’t milk their wallets dry in the gem store with gem>gold exchange. So they went down the casino route of walling everything behind RNG and low rewards to frustrate enough players to spend some gold on their cash store to speed up the process.
please tell me how arena net take my real life money when convert ingame gold to gems.
Don’t be annoying.
No game takes your money. Much like all F2P games, they put in enough grind/inconvenience that it encourages enough (in case you still want to be annoying, ENOUGH, not ALL; you’re not the center of the universe) people to convert their money into ingame currency to reduce the grind time.
And if you think 3k gold without playing the TP is not a long enough grind, or each dreamthistle skin going for 800+ gold, then you’re just trolling.
That is the entire basis of free to play games. Placing enough annoyances/obstacles to incentivize people to spend cash at the store.
(edited by Zenith.7301)
That is the entire basis of free to play games. Placing enough annoyances/obstacles to incentivize people to spend cash at the store.
And the other entire basis is making the people who spend money (on prestige skins or whatever) feel cooler than the people who don’t. Some guy from EA said that 90% of the customers for one of their more profitable F2P games spend no money, but they’re very important because they give the other 10% a crowd to stand out from.
I wonder how people managed to finish dungeons when game launched. No veterans for help. No guides to look up. Somehow we still managed.
Because the current attitudes and beliefs about how people complete a dungeon today are beyond unnecessary (I know your post wasn’t meant as seriously as I’m responding to it). You don’t need to stack, you don’t need to stack might and fury (hell, half the pugs I join don’t do this), you don’t need to be in zerker and you certainly don’t need to bring two ele, one warrior, one guardian and one thief meta builds.
The current meta has become a low skill-cap crutch – dungeons are fast and easy when you all run zerker, all stack might, all run meta professions and builds and all LoS every mob.
Taking it to less of an extreme, there are multiple ways to reach 25 might stacks and perma fury. Many professions have powerful melee cleave weapons, many professions can apply vulnerability stacks and all professions have +% damage traits. We have pug groups thinking they need a speed clear, record breaking meta simply to get their daily dungeon gold grind done quickly and efficiently when that’s simply not the case.
What do you mean it’s not necessary?
I got maybe 2-3 hours to play. The difference between a group that finishes a dungeon in under 10 minutes and one that takes 20 minutes to an hour directly impacts whether I can do my dungeon tour.
What’s more, people who want to save time also do it because if you finish those dungeons faster, you get to have time to do something else.
Let’s give an example. I want Kudzu right now. That’s around 2k+ gold worth of mats. Or I want the dreamthistle skins which each are going for 1k since I missed a few before they retired them.
So doing 20-30 minutes a dungeon path with a deficient pug I might fit say 6 runs at 30 minutes or 9 with 20 minute clears. That’s essentially between 6 (let’s say 7 gold with dropped mats) to 9(10) gold for these runs.
At 7-10 gold per play session, it would take me 100 three hour play sessions for a dreamthistle skin (assuming that by 100 days the skins are not bought out and the prices go even higher for the few remaining) if I am earning 10 gold per play session, or 200 play sessions for the legendary.
That’s really bad.
People are obsessed over speed clears in this game because the rewards are total garbage and the gold grind for skins massive due to everything being attained via low RNG droprates (even with precursor collections in HoT, you can’t farm lodestones or t6 mats reliably so those ridiculous costs due to low RNG remain).
They started with tokens for dungeons and soon after that anet realized if people get their items after a a couple of weeks or a month, they couldn’t milk their wallets dry in the gem store with gem>gold exchange. So they went down the casino route of walling everything behind RNG and low rewards to frustrate enough players to spend some gold on their cash store to speed up the process.
please tell me how arena net take my real life money when convert ingame gold to gems.
Don’t be annoying.
No game takes your money. Much like all F2P games, they put in enough grind/inconvenience that it encourages enough (in case you still want to be annoying, ENOUGH, not ALL; you’re not the center of the universe) people to convert their money into ingame currency to reduce the grind time.
And if you think 3k gold without playing the TP is not a long enough grind, or each dreamthistle skin going for 800+ gold, then you’re just trolling.
That is the entire basis of free to play games. Placing enough annoyances/obstacles to incentivize people to spend cash at the store.
Read your last sentence in the post i quoted mate, i even bolded it for you
You
So they went down the casino route of walling everything behind RNG and low rewards to frustrate enough players to spend some gold on their cash store to speed up the process.
Me
please tell me how arena net take my real life money when convert ingame gold to gems.
You
Dont be annoying.
No game takes your money. Much like all F2P games, they put in enough grind/inconvenience that it encourages enough (in case you still want to be annoying, ENOUGH, not ALL; you’re not the center of the universe) people to convert their money into ingame currency to reduce the grind time.
And if you think 3k gold without playing the TP is not a long enough grind, or each dreamthistle skin going for 800+ gold, then you’re just trolling.
That is the entire basis of free to play games. Placing enough annoyances/obstacles to incentivize people to spend cash at the store.
Me
Read your last sentence in the post i quoted mate, i even bolded it for you
Great, so we’re down to nitpicking typos when the context obviously communicated what I meant.
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