Guild Wars 2

Why? Because now it’s impossible to tell if the person joining you for level 30 is actually good enough to do it or not. It will result in people just huddling together with known factors and never inviting new people in.

Edit: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/fractals-of-the-mists-dungeon-improvements/

For those who don’t know, it basically allows someone who has no AR or no experience to freeload with a bunch of Fractal Level 30’s

What exactly are you talking about?

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/fractals-of-the-mists-dungeon-improvements/

I agree. Before if you wanted to do level 30 then you could invite some random pub and you didn’t have to worry about asking him to link his AR gear, or all his gear. You didn’t have to worry about making sure he had exotics. You would invite him because if he has been able to get that far then he knows what he’s doing.

Now that’s no longer the case. Now the guy that wants to join your level 30 party could be at level 4, have full masterwork gear or, even worse, MF gear, no AR, etc.

Again, they will implement stuff without thinking too much. I wonder if they ever read the forums. There were some great suggestions made by players.
As far as I’m concerted I was one of the people that suggested the current way of things. And I have to say, I love this system for various reasons (where the most important one is that it truly gives you a feeling of progression). I understand that even though the current system is great on paper. It makes it hard for people to find parties around certain levels and it makes it hard to level up alts from scratch (and this is also a problem I’ve personally encountered). The thing is, and I admit it, the way GW2 works is not compatible with the current FoTM system. GW2 was made with the idea of people coming and going, and the fractals system goes in a complete opposite direction. And mind you, I’m not talking about the “gear treadmill” but the true problem of people remaining behind, and unable to run the dungeon if they stop for a month of two.

I think the greatest workaround for this would be to make it tiered with am interval of 5.
That way people won’t have to worry of being dragged by “lvl 4” fractal “noob” in a lvl 35 one. I mean if a guy managed to get to 30 he should be capable enough of doing a 35 one.

I for one am really happy they’ll be fixing the dc problems.

EDIT:
It seems most of you misunderstood the purpose of the change.

You are not supposed to bring a lvl 5 dude in a lvl 30 one. You’re supposed to run a lvl 15 one and while you help the noob get to higher levers, you get chunks of karma as reward.

EDIT2:
It seems to me that this community is getting less helpful day by day

You can’t freeload. You do not get level 30 rewards unless you are level 30. The low level will be rewarded based on his actual level and doing a harder thing for the same reward just doesn’t describe typical human behaviour and is the absolute opposite of what you see in MMOs. Reread the blog post. Carefully.

So before invite just ask for link AR gear. Problem solved.

we dont know how agony will apply on the lower level players yet. I would assume agony will be the same level as the instance level for all. But then again, Anet stated that the lower level player will get the lower-level loot tables, so I don’t think we know yet on the agony.

I don’t like this change… I don’t want o be doing level 40 fractals with inexperienced players.

Right now when you invite a person you don’t know to your 40 group you kinda know that he can carry his weight since he made it this far. now I will be stuck in crap groups.

Please think more about this change and stop punishing players that are early adopters of your content.

Edit: Karma? seriously? might as well give us nothing…

Why are people complaining about this change? People will always chose the path of least resistance, so yeah if someone doesn’t know you and your ability he’s going to assume you’re not qualified to run level 30 when you’re level 2. The work around for this is you join a guild.

This change is wonderful. The current system requires me to level up my guildies over and over and 9 times out of 10 our work is undone because of a disconnect. A system that allows more freedom with grouping is a great thing. If the community is going to be elitist and shut lowbies out, well that’s on the community, not arena net.

EDIT. Nevermind seems the OP posting a link twice wasnt enough for my blind kitten /p>

I dont see the issue. I am currently at fractals 33 with 0% AR and planning to continue without AR

Malediktus.9250:

I dont see the issue. I am currently at fractals 33 with 0% AR and planning to continue without AR

just curious, but what profession are you?

I am playing Guardian. I become pretty good with dodging agony attack, with the exception of jade maw which of course kills me every time.
I also see no reason to show people my AR as long as people arent forced to show me their magic find value.

What i see everyone missing here is this, the change may not help making pugs easier at the very top levels, but it will surely make getting a guild group together for the higher levels so much easier.

I look at my guild (we have not done as many fractals a many), but we have so many who simply have given up and will only do them when a full guild group is made for their level (these players a great players, but still lv 2-5 fractals since they do not pug). With the change, the main groups from the guild that most often do 4 + 1pug and hope they know what they are doing (some people even in the teens are clueless about fractals) can now grab a guild member who is on lv3 and bring them into say lv 16 and all get something out of it. Now our member we bring may not have AR (but the pug may not have under the current system anyways), but we know they are smart and will do what are told to avoid agony and the few extras downs we will deal with for a run or two untill they get some AR (something you shouldn’t mind for a guild member, but wold be very annoyed with a pug who’s slacking and didn’t let you know no AR).

is the change perfect? no, but its a great step in the correct direction. For someone like myself i can now stop worrying about doing 2x a ay to keep both my thief (main) and guard (alt) at the same fractal level so i can use w/e one fits the group best (both have plenty of AR from passing rings and such around), and i know we will have good players in each run rather then crossing our fingers with the use of gw2lfg (will alos be better now since the does this person have stable connection question is also over)

So what happens to lvl 30+ ppl who are actually so good that they need little or none agony resist?

Simply dividing level numbers by 5 would have helped a lot.

Honestly, the “highest level” restriction would mostly benefit guilds and close friends where a certain level of trust and skill-synergy has been built amongst each other that a 30+ group wouldn’t mind bringing along sub-10 players to their runs. In a sense, guild cohesion has been restored somewhat because guild members are more likely to group up with other guild members. With this change, I don’t feel bad of being left behind due to real life obligations, and can now join them in their 30+ Fractal runs (assuming that I have the Agony Resistance for it of course). In addition, we can also do alt-runs amongst each other provided at least one character stays on their main to actually qualify for higher level runs. Again, assuming the alts have some Agony Resistance for the run, at least the cohesion of guild structure still remains.

In PUGs, this might cause an issue where some people may request you to link your Ascended items to see if you are up for the job (which can easily be fabricated using links from gw2db), and then boot those who slack behind with almost no hesitation once they have ratted out your “low levelness”. It could be Elitism to an extreme level.

In short, the new system could promote the use of a “buddy system”. Meaning that if you want to PUG, bring a guildie! Almost always, I tend to bring another guild member along. If my friend or I gets booted out of a party for something illogical, we both leave and the party leader’s nerdrage commences.

It’s a change in good direction but frankly, the amount of grind to get to fun stuff is just too much. First levels are too facerollish and you have to get to lvl 20 to get some harder content. There should be much less levels.

Malediktus.9250:

I am playing Guardian. I become pretty good with dodging agony attack, with the exception of jade maw which of course kills me every time.
I also see no reason to show people my AR as long as people arent forced to show me their magic find value.

So you chose to be a hindrance to your group? you are exactly the person I don’t want in my high lvl group.

Magic find? Wow….

At least now you can bring friends who aren’t up to your level. I want to only do fractals with friends but it’s always oh we gotta do level 1/2/3 again zzz

I welcome this.

As for pugs, they’re gonna have to do some other stuff to make it better. I won’t deny that.

Intoduce ‘inspect’ feature. Problem solved

Worst update for fractals ever ! After 30 lets say fractals are kinda elitist , only for the experienced players and the loot too ! ANET wake up , we dont want to drag noob lvl 1 at fractals or ask like cops their fractal level and their gear , we dont want to make level 40 daily with players that dont have ressurection orbs or skills to take it to that level ! Return the way it was until you will regret it ! So now tbh why a lvl 1-20 pug gets my 30-40 drop from the fractals and causing pain with him to finish it ? I dont get it , simply i can’t , we worked hours and hours for some pugs to get SAME loot as we … kinda unfair (higher fractal lvl is better loot you get right ? ) ! You screw this up big time , dont even want to touch the game for next few days ! X-mas to you all , be safe !
And 1 more thing , even if the player has the agony ressist + the gear it takes , he will not have the SKILL to finish a 20-40 lvls higher fractal than he is , Anet encouraging leeching ? Was thinking that is a bannable thing !
I think I’m talkin in the name of most high level fractal players as they seen with their own eyes how hard a daily at 10 and 20 lvl is compared to 30 and 40 !
Nice day !

jesus, anet shouldn’t have given that example.

Lol, no doubt.

Why do some of you think that level 1 noobs are going to instantly want to invade into your level 40 fractals? With this new system there will be plenty of people in their own level range to play with. People are so bent on raging they can’t see a good thing right in front of them. And thank goodness for the DC fix, long overdue on that one.

The change recently to make the rings with AR available to everyone 10+ just by completing dailys has done a great deal to allow those “Unlucky” (The ones that ran 10-22 without having a ring drop once in Dailys) Guildies the chance to catch up with the Luckier people (Those that had a ring from each and every daily chest) in terms of being able to run Fractals with people you know and know can play.

The changes for January would mean you could then have that Valuable (But ringless) player come help you out in at least getting to the final encounters (Which is where AR is more applicable)..

It has more beneficial returns to Guilds that it will have to the player base in general In my Own opinion.

The DC fix is the biggest issue though..

How are people already trashing something that hasn’t even been released yet? I think the proposed changes are great, my only wonder is how agony will work with a mix of players.

I really don’t see why someone who is actually Level 4 would bother doing Level 30. It’s much more difficult, and they only get Level 4 rewards for their effort.

The change lets that Level 4 group with someone who is Level 3, 5, and 6 and everyone progresses if they succeed.

dani.1956:

Worst update for fractals ever ! After 30 lets say fractals are kinda elitist , only for the experienced players and the loot too ! ANET wake up , we dont want to drag noob lvl 1 at fractals or ask like cops their fractal level and their gear , we dont want to make level 40 daily with players that dont have ressurection orbs or skills to take it to that level ! Return the way it was until you will regret it ! So now tbh why a lvl 1-20 pug gets my 30-40 drop from the fractals and causing pain with him to finish it ? I dont get it , simply i can’t , we worked hours and hours for some pugs to get SAME loot as we … kinda unfair (higher fractal lvl is better loot you get right ? ) ! You screw this up big time , dont even want to touch the game for next few days ! X-mas to you all , be safe !
And 1 more thing , even if the player has the agony ressist + the gear it takes , he will not have the SKILL to finish a 20-40 lvls higher fractal than he is , Anet encouraging leeching ? Was thinking that is a bannable thing !
I think I’m talkin in the name of most high level fractal players as they seen with their own eyes how hard a daily at 10 and 20 lvl is compared to 30 and 40 !
Nice day !

Ehhh, you may want to reread the post. The level one players leeching into a level 40 run will get level 1 drops in the level 40 instance. Stop crying doom and gloom, the system is actually perfect. It is only susceptible to trolls who simply wish to play at a higher fractal level for absolutely no reason whatsoever, as they gain nothing more by playing at a level higher than the one they are already at.

This change is absolutely awesome tbh

Jackie.1829:

dani.1956:

Worst update for fractals ever ! After 30 lets say fractals are kinda elitist , only for the experienced players and the loot too ! ANET wake up , we dont want to drag noob lvl 1 at fractals or ask like cops their fractal level and their gear , we dont want to make level 40 daily with players that dont have ressurection orbs or skills to take it to that level ! Return the way it was until you will regret it ! So now tbh why a lvl 1-20 pug gets my 30-40 drop from the fractals and causing pain with him to finish it ? I dont get it , simply i can’t , we worked hours and hours for some pugs to get SAME loot as we … kinda unfair (higher fractal lvl is better loot you get right ? ) ! You screw this up big time , dont even want to touch the game for next few days ! X-mas to you all , be safe !
And 1 more thing , even if the player has the agony ressist + the gear it takes , he will not have the SKILL to finish a 20-40 lvls higher fractal than he is , Anet encouraging leeching ? Was thinking that is a bannable thing !
I think I’m talkin in the name of most high level fractal players as they seen with their own eyes how hard a daily at 10 and 20 lvl is compared to 30 and 40 !
Nice day !

Ehhh, you may want to reread the post. The level one players leeching into a level 40 run will get level 1 drops in the level 40 instance. Stop crying doom and gloom, the system is actually perfect. It is only susceptible to trolls who simply wish to play at a higher fractal level for absolutely no reason whatsoever, as they gain nothing more by playing at a level higher than the one they are already at.

This change is absolutely awesome tbh

Yes i know they will get their own level chest but the mobs will be the same for everyone , that means mobs drops too ! And want to know a secret ? 10 daily and 20 daily are a pain with the noobs but i enjoy my 30+ , so much smoother no more noobs , all know what to do ! Thats why fractals should have strict levels not some leeching exploit !

The word exploit is used far too often on these forums.

Why would someone who is level 2 or 3 or 4 want to “freeload” in a 30 fractal? He’ll have to play the 30 fractal, and when he’s done, he’ll be level 3 or 4 or 5. Probably not worth it for him when he can do something easier and quicker.

It’s funny how people predict what people will do … You can’t say that everybody will rush those levels …
There are great changes in this patch : the ability to reconnect, and the ability to help guildmaters/alts to reach same level as others.

If there are some people who will try to do higher levels that theirs, I think there’s obviously only one level implied : lv 10.
Indeed, lv 10 is the easiest level on which you can get ascended gear.
Thus, some people (and I say “some” because it won’t be a crowd of people) will join lv 10 with little or no experience of fractal just to get ascended gear (for WvW for instance). That’s it .

When will that get to you that your loot will be based on your personal level. Going at lvl 2 for lvl 10 won’t get you ascended gear. It’s only made for easier grouping. So people with levels 2-5-6-8-9 are able to play together.

This game PvE content do not require ANY kind of skills or gear…. 95% bosses is done using exploits, you can die as many times you want and still join boss fight back…. you can do as low dps as you only can and still down bosses…… PvE content in GW2 is extremely “noob” friendly… and people still require GEAR to do some dungeons??? that’s just unbelievable….

Elitist has been killed 5-6 years ago in other game we all know, and never come back because developers prefer to make games like GW2 where no matter what you do you can kill everything rather than creating games which require skills and effort to learn tactics and down hard bosses.

haviz.1340:

When will that get to you that your loot will be based on your personal level. Going at lvl 2 for lvl 10 won’t get you ascended gear. It’s only made for easier grouping. So people with levels 2-5-6-8-9 are able to play together.

Are you sure it applies as well to the daily and not only to loots from mobs and chests ?

KratosAngel.7289:

haviz.1340:

When will that get to you that your loot will be based on your personal level. Going at lvl 2 for lvl 10 won’t get you ascended gear. It’s only made for easier grouping. So people with levels 2-5-6-8-9 are able to play together.

Are you sure it applies as well to the daily and not only to loots from mobs and chests ?

They didn’t say that but I’m pretty sure they are tied together. Anet doesn’t like to make people’s life easier. You most likely won’t be able to do daily at lvl2 to get ascended.

Ok , seems i got to post this one more time ! Seems many read the first 10 words of someone post then they don’t read until the end ! I said and I stand by it : low level fractals are harder to make due to lack of player ability to survive ( can have even masterwork gear , i don’t mind as long as they dodge those big 1-2 hit kill attacks ). So a pug thats 10ish 20ish level will create a mess at lvl 30ish 40ish fractal so prepare your blocklist because you will add alot of player that you will not speak again in the game ! This fractal update will make more elitism as stated in the thread , good name for it !

The thing that I really don’t understand from this is what is this all supposed to accomplish? If I am understanding the news statement correctly, if a player on 30+ fractals does level 4 with a pug, he will only get level 4 rewards, and if a level 4 player joins 30 with a pug, he will only get level 4 rewards. I don’t count karma as a useful reward as it is ridiculously easy to get, with 5k per day alone from the daily achievement.

How is this supposed to encourage players to do lower level fractals when it is basically the same exact rewards as doing them currently? And on the other hand, if I could get rewards at a higher level for doing lower levels there would be no point to doing the higher levels.

It seems that all this will do is bring about forced gear checks in PUGs and a lot of hostility in general towards lower level players.

Would you guys please wait for the actual patch before declaring it’s the end of the world? Guilds/friends not being able to do Fractals together is a real issue, and everyone should be glad it is going to be adressed.

Everything about how the January patch is going to affect PUGs is pure speculation. Maybe ANet will actually display people’s real fractal level next to their name in the “join your party in fotm”-dialog. (As well as the level you’re about to enter. Duh.) Easily done, there goes all your whining.
Even if they don’t, they’ve still said that “rewards” will be based on your fractal level. That (to me) obviously means that you can’t get a daily 10/20/30… reward as a lvl 2, no matter what difficulty you play. It may also mean that mob drops will be the same for that f2 player, no matter whether they play difficulty 2 or 42. Personally, I consider that likely, both for balance reasons and for implementation reasons (due to MF, the game already has to take the receiving player into consideration when determining drops). Also:
(Game Update Notes Dec 14, I can’t seem to get the quote= tag to work)

Fixed mob and boss chest loot drops so that they will now scale up appropriately with player scale.

Then there’ll be no reason whatsoever for low level players to pug any higher than they need to find a full group. (Apart from straight trolls, but if you can’t handle them, then you should stop playing MMOs.)

Everyone below level 30 fractals is a complete NOOB! We should have the devs force these noobs to play hello-kitty-online cuz that’s the only thing they are good at! Stupid noobs don’t know what AR is or how to dodge silly silly stupid noobs that are lower than level 30 fractals. Why should I let them join my group? I am in it for myself and only myself! These noobs are noobs, they’ll never get any higher that lvl 20 fractals… (and that’s nooby!) what free loaders, the devs need to rework fractals, this update is gonna be so bad for us pro-leet-awesome-sauce lvl 30+ fractalerz!! AR FTW!!!

Hows about we see how things go before assuming the very worst, guys?

No? Okay, don’t mind me.

Noid.2871:

Would you guys please wait for the actual patch before declaring it’s the end of the world? Guilds/friends not being able to do Fractals together is a real issue, and everyone should be glad it is going to be adressed.

Everything about how the January patch is going to affect PUGs is pure speculation. Maybe ANet will actually display people’s real fractal level next to their name in the “join your party in fotm”-dialog. (As well as the level you’re about to enter. Duh.) Easily done, there goes all your whining.
Even if they don’t, they’ve still said that “rewards” will be based on your fractal level. That (to me) obviously means that you can’t get a daily 10/20/30… reward as a lvl 2, no matter what difficulty you play. It may also mean that mob drops will be the same for that f2 player, no matter whether they play difficulty 2 or 42. Personally, I consider that likely, both for balance reasons and for implementation reasons (due to MF, the game already has to take the receiving player into consideration when determining drops). Also:
(Game Update Notes Dec 14, I can’t seem to get the quote= tag to work)

Fixed mob and boss chest loot drops so that they will now scale up appropriately with player scale.

Then there’ll be no reason whatsoever for low level players to pug any higher than they need to find a full group. (Apart from straight trolls, but if you can’t handle them, then you should stop playing MMOs.)

Actually it says that the reward will be based on your fractal level, so long as your reward level will be equal to or lower than the level chosen. So anyone higher will get a lower level reward.

Slacker.2679:

The thing that I really don’t understand from this is what is this all supposed to accomplish? If I am understanding the news statement correctly, if a player on 30+ fractals does level 4 with a pug, he will only get level 4 rewards, and if a level 4 player joins 30 with a pug, he will only get level 4 rewards. I don’t count karma as a useful reward as it is ridiculously easy to get, with 5k per day alone from the daily achievement.

How is this supposed to encourage players to do lower level fractals when it is basically the same exact rewards as doing them currently? And on the other hand, if I could get rewards at a higher level for doing lower levels there would be no point to doing the higher levels.

It seems that all this will do is bring about forced gear checks in PUGs and a lot of hostility in general towards lower level players.

It depends on what level the group has chosen for its fractal run. If it’s level 30, then the lvl 30 guy gets lvl 30 loot, lvl 4 guy gets level 4. If it’s lvl 4, then everyone (assuming lvl 4 is the lowest lvl member in the group) gets level 4.

I think the people who will use this feature the most are guild groups or pre-mades, and not pugs necessarily. pugs will still say “lf2m fotm lvl 20, must have AR”

Raif.9507

Actually it says that the reward will be based on your fractal level, so long as your reward level will be equal to or lower than the level chosen. So anyone higher will get a lower level reward.

Uh, yes? An f30 player shouldn’t get f30 reards for completing f8, but f8 rewards. So the formula should be reward_scale=min(player_scale,difficulty_scale). What were you saying?

penatbater.4710

I think the people who will use this feature the most are guild groups or pre-mades, and not pugs necessarily. pugs will still say “lf2m fotm lvl 20, must have AR”

And that’s how it’s supposed to be, except that a player on 19 (or 18, or 17) will be able to join that pug and progress instead of spending an hour trying to find a team doing 19.

dani.1956:

Yes i know they will get their own level chest but the mobs will be the same for everyone , that means mobs drops too ! And want to know a secret ? 10 daily and 20 daily are a pain with the noobs but i enjoy my 30+ , so much smoother no more noobs , all know what to do ! Thats why fractals should have strict levels not some leeching exploit !

Erm? How did you conclude that mob drops will be the same for everybody? As far as I am aware Anet has made it fairly clear that the loot tables will be restricted to the level of the individual looting the corpse. So a fractal 4 has a low chance of an exotic from a mob while the fractal 30 guy has a higher chance.

To me this just seems like you dont really understand the system or Anets post, but you are jumping the gun to complain about something.

How about you just wait until it is released as you seem very confused.

And even if what you say is true, it would be stupid to fracture the gaming community into mini levels, just so that a small minority of individuals at the higher bracket dont have to endure any hassle while forming a group. You are just sounding incredibly selfish with your post.

Jackie.1829:

dani.1956:

Yes i know they will get their own level chest but the mobs will be the same for everyone , that means mobs drops too ! And want to know a secret ? 10 daily and 20 daily are a pain with the noobs but i enjoy my 30+ , so much smoother no more noobs , all know what to do ! Thats why fractals should have strict levels not some leeching exploit !

Erm? How did you conclude that mob drops will be the same for everybody? As far as I am aware Anet has made it fairly clear that the loot tables will be restricted to the level of the individual looting the corpse. So a fractal 4 has a low chance of an exotic from a mob while the fractal 30 guy has a higher chance.

To me this just seems like you dont really understand the system or Anets post, but you are jumping the gun to complain about something.

How about you just wait until it is released as you seem very confused.

And even if what you say is true, it would be stupid to fracture the gaming community into mini levels, just so that a small minority of individuals at the higher bracket dont have to endure any hassle while forming a group. You are just sounding incredibly selfish with your post.

No mate you didn’t understand , they can’t change the level of the mobs in a 30-40 fractal or their loot , or bosses power to attack you ! At 40 80% of the bosses agony is 1 shoot kill ! I can agree with the chest , that a lvl 4 guy will get a lvl 4 chest but what about mobs and bosses ? The ones that are lvl 4 will see a level 80 mob with a level 80 drop , and the one at 40 will see a level 82 boss and mob ? I’m sure no !

only good update i see coming is to re-enter fractal after disconnect

personaly i will not carry low levels to 30++ fractals … reason? they are to lazy they dislike fractal but i personaly think its becouse they suck to much at fractal and if you dont learn to dodge at lower lvls they will be dead all the time at higher lvls and just waste peoples time

agony resistance only is good 30s and below sure u survive somewhat at 40s but at 50s its all the same with or without AR