No dungeon/path should be over 25 min.

No dungeon/path should be over 25 min.

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: CHIPS.6018

CHIPS.6018

Assuming you and your 4 other team mates are the 5 best player in the world. All of you have legendary and exotic items. When you 5 go into a dungeon, any dungeon, it should not take you over 25 minutes to complete, from start to finish, without need for any exploits.

If a dungeon takes these 5 best players in the world over 25 minutes, it is way too long.

Why?

Because if the said dungeons takes over 25 minutes for these best players in the world, that dungeon is not accessible for casual players at all.

Casual players might be very skillful and knows what they are doing. But they have limit play time everyday. Some only have 2 hours a day. When the dungeon takes over 25 minutes, on top of time need for finding a group, dungeons becomes too time consuming for these casual players. They will be limited by time, not skills.

Remember that I am talking about the best of the best players here. If they take 25 minutes, other players will take longer. Each time the average player fails, the time required might double (50 minutes). So by limiting the time to 25 minutes in the best case scenario, we are giving the casual player a window of 5 times of failures within his/her 2 hour play time.

If Anet wants to make a long dungeon, they would need to divide the dungeon up into parts and sectors, so players can complete one sector at a time. For example, Arah dungeon path 4 part 1, Arah dungeon path 4 part 2, etc. This way players will not be limited by time.

As it is right now, Arah dungeon path 4 is impossible for any casual player that only have 2 hours a day to play. This path 4 takes over 4 hours for a lot of players. Some spent 12 hours in this dungeon and still failed it. It isn’t fair to have contents totally inaccessible for these casual players just because they got real life stuff to deal with.

Anet please consider this. Thanks.

Chipsy Chips(Necromancer) & Char Ashnoble(Thief)
The Order of Dii[Dii]-SBI→Kaineng→TC→JQ
Necro Encyclopedia-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrAjJ1N6hxs

(edited by CHIPS.6018)

No dungeon/path should be over 25 min.

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Posted by: Chillmastor.9234

Chillmastor.9234

Your suggestion is awesome but obsolete because this IS ALREADY the case
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akoLjsITrk0
This group does arah p4 in 43 min. That means there is no path that takes longer. I really like the dungeons in GW2 and the time it takes to complete them.

No dungeon/path should be over 25 min.

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Posted by: CHIPS.6018

CHIPS.6018

Your suggestion is awesome but obsolete because this IS ALREADY the case
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akoLjsITrk0
This group does arah p4 in 43 min. That means there is no path that takes longer. I really like the dungeons in GW2 and the time it takes to complete them.

You are right. But honestly you and I both know this doesn’t fix the problem.

Reduced from 45 minutes to 25 minutes to get my point though. ^^

Chipsy Chips(Necromancer) & Char Ashnoble(Thief)
The Order of Dii[Dii]-SBI→Kaineng→TC→JQ
Necro Encyclopedia-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrAjJ1N6hxs

No dungeon/path should be over 25 min.

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Posted by: Mirta.5029

Mirta.5029

Your suggestion is awesome but obsolete because this IS ALREADY the case
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akoLjsITrk0
This group does arah p4 in 43 min. That means there is no path that takes longer. I really like the dungeons in GW2 and the time it takes to complete them.

You are right. But honestly you and I both know this doesn’t fix the problem.

Reduced title to 25 minutes. ^^

why would you do that? Do you want all dungeons to be CoF? That’s the reason I don’t ever go to CoF. It’s too easy! Arah is supposed to be the hardest dungeon. I’ve been preparing for it for ages. It should not be nerfed. It shouldn’t be run by everyone either.

No dungeon/path should be over 25 min.

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Posted by: Wethospu.6437

Wethospu.6437

Difficulty and time to run are two different things.

No dungeon/path should be over 25 min.

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Posted by: Mirta.5029

Mirta.5029

Difficulty and time to run are two different things.

Actually the only reason you take long in a dungeon is because it’s difficult. Alpha in CoE is difficult. Lupicus in Arah is difficult. CoF takes a short time because it’s easy. You also can’t make a dungeon of one run with one difficult mob in it (that would make a dungeon into a 20 minutes run), because that’s not a dungeon. That’s one room.

No dungeon/path should be over 25 min.

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Posted by: Leo G.4501

Leo G.4501

The solution is: Don’t play that dungeon.

So long as the rewards obtained in it are obtainable elsewhere (path 1-3) your point is moot and confining from a game designer’s perspective.

No dungeon/path should be over 25 min.

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Posted by: CHIPS.6018

CHIPS.6018

Your suggestion is awesome but obsolete because this IS ALREADY the case
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akoLjsITrk0
This group does arah p4 in 43 min. That means there is no path that takes longer. I really like the dungeons in GW2 and the time it takes to complete them.

You are right. But honestly you and I both know this doesn’t fix the problem.

Reduced title to 25 minutes. ^^

why would you do that? Do you want all dungeons to be CoF? That’s the reason I don’t ever go to CoF. It’s too easy! Arah is supposed to be the hardest dungeon. I’ve been preparing for it for ages. It should not be nerfed. It shouldn’t be run by everyone either.

You have to understand that there are players out there who can only play for 2 hours a day. Anet need to cater the game to them too if they want their money.

I am not saying making the dungeons easier. I am saying that they should break certain long dungeons down into smaller pieces for each path, part 1,2,3, etc. By breaking the dungeons down they allow and encourage the casual players to try these dungeons.

Those that can play 12 hours a day, think of this as a way of paying for the server. The casual’s money is just as good as the hardcore ’s money. And there are A LOT more casual players than hardcore players.

Chipsy Chips(Necromancer) & Char Ashnoble(Thief)
The Order of Dii[Dii]-SBI→Kaineng→TC→JQ
Necro Encyclopedia-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrAjJ1N6hxs

No dungeon/path should be over 25 min.

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Posted by: Silidus.7985

Silidus.7985

Your suggestion is awesome but obsolete because this IS ALREADY the case
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akoLjsITrk0
This group does arah p4 in 43 min. That means there is no path that takes longer. I really like the dungeons in GW2 and the time it takes to complete them.

You are right. But honestly you and I both know this doesn’t fix the problem.

Reduced title to 25 minutes. ^^

why would you do that? Do you want all dungeons to be CoF? That’s the reason I don’t ever go to CoF. It’s too easy! Arah is supposed to be the hardest dungeon. I’ve been preparing for it for ages. It should not be nerfed. It shouldn’t be run by everyone either.

You have to understand that there are players out there who can only play for 2 hours a day. Anet need to cater the game to them too if they want their money.

I am not saying making the dungeons easier. I am saying that they should break the dungeons down into smaller pieces, part 1,2,3, etc. By breaking the dungeons down they allow and encourage the casual players to try these dungeons.

Those that can play 12 hours a day, think of this as a way of paying for the server. The casual’s money is just as good as the hardcore ’s money. And there are A LOT more casual players than hardcore players.

I would say that there need to be SOME dungeons that require only 20 minutes for a path, and others that require more investment.

Or better yet, Every dungeon should have at least ONE path that requires only 20 minutes at greatly reduced rewards (but still tokens) while others offer a more in depth experience for those that have more time.

No dungeon/path should be over 25 min.

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Posted by: CHIPS.6018

CHIPS.6018

The solution is: Don’t play that dungeon.

So long as the rewards obtained in it are obtainable elsewhere (path 1-3) your point is moot and confining from a game designer’s perspective.

One extra guy that doesn’t play these dungeons is one extra guy that’s playing another game. And when they play another game they might not come back and buy GW2’s next expansion. Is this want we want? Who will pay for our servers?

Rule #1: You never turn any player away, casual or hardcore.

My idea does not turn any hardcore away, because the difficulty wasn’t reduced at all. On the other hand it will bring in/maintain the casual population.

Chipsy Chips(Necromancer) & Char Ashnoble(Thief)
The Order of Dii[Dii]-SBI→Kaineng→TC→JQ
Necro Encyclopedia-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrAjJ1N6hxs

(edited by CHIPS.6018)

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Posted by: Wethospu.6437

Wethospu.6437

Difficulty and time to run are two different things.

Actually the only reason you take long in a dungeon is because it’s difficult. Alpha in CoE is difficult. Lupicus in Arah is difficult. CoF takes a short time because it’s easy. You also can’t make a dungeon of one run with one difficult mob in it (that would make a dungeon into a 20 minutes run), because that’s not a dungeon. That’s one room.

Alpha takes like 1 minute. Lupicus takes like 3 minutes. More or less same than much easier bosses. CoF is short because you don’t have to kill much.

Arah 4 is not long because of Simin, it is long because of so many bosses and so much running.

(edited by Wethospu.6437)

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Posted by: AlecFair.1270

AlecFair.1270

Well thank god the poster of this topic isn’t one of the best players in the world. So shouldn’t worry about it.

But in all seriousness thats how dungeons should be. Long and challenging. I mean I think I would kinda bored if I go into a dungeon in which in the games lore has been under the sea for many years and is freaking huge on the outside just to come in and get through it in less than 20 minutes. Kinda makes me feel I just walked through it without dealing with any enemies trying to block my path to my goal at the end.

Tarnished Coast – Got mah Toast on. :V
Tizzle Mindwrack – Crazy Asura Lore Keeper of [AARM]

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Posted by: Zara.9524

Zara.9524

LOL they nerfed all dungeons cuz they listen to complaints about people that want everything served on a plate…25 min dungeons? why so u can get dungeonmaster in 24h?Get serious it is already a noob friendly game.Dungeons were the only thing that was for HC players.Now its nerfed…

No dungeon/path should be over 25 min.

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Posted by: Leo G.4501

Leo G.4501

You have to understand that there are players out there who can only play for 2 hours a day. Anet need to cater the game to them too if they want their money.

Are you implying that Anet doesn’t have content catered to those types of players?

Or are you implying all content must bend to the desires of a portion of its community?

Perhaps I’m misunderstanding, or maybe I just have tact but your demands sound selfish.

As for the idea of breaking dungeons up into parts, that is already the case. It’s usually broken up into 3 parts.

No dungeon/path should be over 25 min.

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Posted by: CHIPS.6018

CHIPS.6018

Well thank god the poster of this topic isn’t one of the best players in the world. So shouldn’t worry about it.

But in all seriousness thats how dungeons should be. Long and challenging. I mean I think I would kinda bored if I go into a dungeon in which in the games lore has been under the sea for many years and is freaking huge on the outside just to come in and get through it in less than 20 minutes. Kinda makes me feel I just walked through it without dealing with any enemies trying to block my path to my goal at the end.

I understand you. But as it is right now many dungeons are turning away those casual players with only 2 hours to play a day. Those casual players might be very good and very skilled. But they simply do not have 4 hours to play, so they never gets them done.

Chipsy Chips(Necromancer) & Char Ashnoble(Thief)
The Order of Dii[Dii]-SBI→Kaineng→TC→JQ
Necro Encyclopedia-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrAjJ1N6hxs

No dungeon/path should be over 25 min.

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Posted by: CHIPS.6018

CHIPS.6018

LOL they nerfed all dungeons cuz they listen to complaints about people that want everything served on a plate…25 min dungeons? why so u can get dungeonmaster in 24h?Get serious it is already a noob friendly game.Dungeons were the only thing that was for HC players.Now its nerfed…

Once again I am not saying they should nerf the dungeons. I just want them to divide certain dungeons paths into parts and sectors, so they are more accessible to those casual players.

There is no longer any death penalty in GW2 (unlike GW1). So I don’t see how dividing a dungeon into parts will affect difficulty in any way.

Chipsy Chips(Necromancer) & Char Ashnoble(Thief)
The Order of Dii[Dii]-SBI→Kaineng→TC→JQ
Necro Encyclopedia-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrAjJ1N6hxs

No dungeon/path should be over 25 min.

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Posted by: CHIPS.6018

CHIPS.6018

You have to understand that there are players out there who can only play for 2 hours a day. Anet need to cater the game to them too if they want their money.

Are you implying that Anet doesn’t have content catered to those types of players?

Or are you implying all content must bend to the desires of a portion of its community?

Perhaps I’m misunderstanding, or maybe I just have tact but your demands sound selfish.

As for the idea of breaking dungeons up into parts, that is already the case. It’s usually broken up into 3 parts.

All contents in the game should be assessable to everyone, casual or hard core. Everyone playing this game right now paid for it. Why should casual players be “punished” just because they got real life to deal with?

Chipsy Chips(Necromancer) & Char Ashnoble(Thief)
The Order of Dii[Dii]-SBI→Kaineng→TC→JQ
Necro Encyclopedia-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrAjJ1N6hxs

No dungeon/path should be over 25 min.

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: Mirta.5029

Mirta.5029

You have to understand that there are players out there who can only play for 2 hours a day. Anet need to cater the game to them too if they want their money.

I am not saying making the dungeons easier. I am saying that they should break certain long dungeons down into smaller pieces for each path, part 1,2,3, etc. By breaking the dungeons down they allow and encourage the casual players to try these dungeons.

Those that can play 12 hours a day, think of this as a way of paying for the server. The casual’s money is just as good as the hardcore ’s money. And there are A LOT more casual players than hardcore players.

And having in mind that skilled does not equal hardcore, there’s no reason why going trough that dungeon should take you over 2 hours. If you managed to reach level 80 you should be well aware of what your class is able to do and how properly do a dungeon. If it’s too hard for you, don’t whine and practice on other dungeons.

One extra guy that doesn’t play these dungeons is one extra guy that’s playing another game. And when they play another game they might not come back and buy GW2’s next expansion. Is this want we want? Who will pay for our servers?

Rule #1: You never turn any player away, casual or hardcore.

My idea does not turn any hardcore away, because the difficulty wasn’t reduced at all. On the other hand it will bring in/maintain the casual population.

Shortening boss fights would reduce the difficulty, therefore turning hardcore players away. Besides you I have not seen casual population complain that much either.

Once again I am not saying they should nerf the dungeons. I just want them to divide certain dungeons paths into parts and sectors, so they are more accessible to those casual players.

There is no longer any death penalty in GW2 (unlike GW1). So I don’t see how dividing a dungeon into parts will affect difficulty in any way.

Penalty for dying is laying on the floor, shortening the dungeons is cutting some bosses away making the difficulty easier. It also cuts loot away.

All contents in the game should be assessable to everyone, casual or hard core. Everyone playing this game right now paid for it. Why should casual players be “punished” just because they got real life to deal with?

Only unskilled players are punished. Learn to play by doing easier dungeons first until you’re the master of your class instead of whining that Arah is too hard.

No dungeon/path should be over 25 min.

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Posted by: CHIPS.6018

CHIPS.6018

You have to understand that there are players out there who can only play for 2 hours a day. Anet need to cater the game to them too if they want their money.

I am not saying making the dungeons easier. I am saying that they should break certain long dungeons down into smaller pieces for each path, part 1,2,3, etc. By breaking the dungeons down they allow and encourage the casual players to try these dungeons.

Those that can play 12 hours a day, think of this as a way of paying for the server. The casual’s money is just as good as the hardcore ’s money. And there are A LOT more casual players than hardcore players.

And having in mind that skilled does not equal hardcore, there’s no reason why going trough that dungeon should take you over 2 hours. If you managed to reach level 80 you should be well aware of what your class is able to do and how properly do a dungeon. If it’s too hard for you, don’t whine and practice on other dungeons.

One extra guy that doesn’t play these dungeons is one extra guy that’s playing another game. And when they play another game they might not come back and buy GW2’s next expansion. Is this want we want? Who will pay for our servers?

Rule #1: You never turn any player away, casual or hardcore.

My idea does not turn any hardcore away, because the difficulty wasn’t reduced at all. On the other hand it will bring in/maintain the casual population.

Shortening boss fights would reduce the difficulty, therefore turning hardcore players away. Besides you I have not seen casual population complain that much either.

Once again I am not saying they should nerf the dungeons. I just want them to divide certain dungeons paths into parts and sectors, so they are more accessible to those casual players.

There is no longer any death penalty in GW2 (unlike GW1). So I don’t see how dividing a dungeon into parts will affect difficulty in any way.

Penalty for dying is laying on the floor, shortening the dungeons is cutting some bosses away making the difficulty easier. It also cuts loot away.

All contents in the game should be assessable to everyone, casual or hard core. Everyone playing this game right now paid for it. Why should casual players be “punished” just because they got real life to deal with?

Only unskilled players are punished. Learn to play by doing easier dungeons first until you’re the master of your class instead of whining that Arah is too hard.

I already finished Arah paths 1 to 3. I farmed enough in Arah for the Arah armor. But I refuse to touch path 4 because everyone in my guild said it was brutal time wise. I do not have 4+ hours to burn on this, with the risk of failing and not getting anything.

Just the thought of a 4+ hour long dungeon (success not guaranteed) turns me away. I am not even going to attempt it until it gets changed. It got nothing to do with my player skills, which is very decent btw.

In the mean time, I will wvw with those precious 2 hours that I got.

Chipsy Chips(Necromancer) & Char Ashnoble(Thief)
The Order of Dii[Dii]-SBI→Kaineng→TC→JQ
Necro Encyclopedia-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrAjJ1N6hxs

(edited by CHIPS.6018)

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Posted by: Mirta.5029

Mirta.5029

I already finished Arah paths 1 to 3. I farmed enough in Arah for the Arah armor. But I refuse to touch path 4 because everyone in my guild said it was brutal time wise. I do not have 4+ hours to burn on this, with the risk of failing and not getting anything.

Just the thought of a 4+ hour long dungeon (success not guaranteed) turns me away. I am not even going to attempt it until it gets changed. It got nothing to do with my player skills, which is very decent btw.

you’re saying that it will take you 4+ hours when a guy linked you a video where it was completed in 43 minutes? It is a skill issue.

No dungeon/path should be over 25 min.

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Posted by: CHIPS.6018

CHIPS.6018

I already finished Arah paths 1 to 3. I farmed enough in Arah for the Arah armor. But I refuse to touch path 4 because everyone in my guild said it was brutal time wise. I do not have 4+ hours to burn on this, with the risk of failing and not getting anything.

Just the thought of a 4+ hour long dungeon (success not guaranteed) turns me away. I am not even going to attempt it until it gets changed. It got nothing to do with my player skills, which is very decent btw.

you’re saying that it will take you 4+ hours when a guy linked you a video where it was completed in 43 minutes? It is a skill issue.

Here we go again. Elitist calling everyone else noob.

Until you finish GW1 Winds of Change in Hard Mode and get Zei Ri as a hero, do not lecture me about player skills.

Attachments:

Chipsy Chips(Necromancer) & Char Ashnoble(Thief)
The Order of Dii[Dii]-SBI→Kaineng→TC→JQ
Necro Encyclopedia-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrAjJ1N6hxs

No dungeon/path should be over 25 min.

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Posted by: Mirta.5029

Mirta.5029

I already finished Arah paths 1 to 3. I farmed enough in Arah for the Arah armor. But I refuse to touch path 4 because everyone in my guild said it was brutal time wise. I do not have 4+ hours to burn on this, with the risk of failing and not getting anything.

Just the thought of a 4+ hour long dungeon (success not guaranteed) turns me away. I am not even going to attempt it until it gets changed. It got nothing to do with my player skills, which is very decent btw.

you’re saying that it will take you 4+ hours when a guy linked you a video where it was completed in 43 minutes? It is a skill issue.

Here we go again. Elitist calling everyone else noob.

Until you finish GW1 Winds of Change in Hard Mode and get Zei Ri as a hero, do not lecture me about player skills.

Actually I’m pretty casual myself. If you can’t run Arah path 4 under 2 hours it’s your problem when you can complete it in 43 minutes.
And how did you find time to complete GW1 on hard and have no time to run Arah path 4? GW1 on hard is Mass Effect level of play time.

(edited by Mirta.5029)

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Posted by: Ioflux.4369

Ioflux.4369

People need to accept that they can’t have everything. Not everything in the game is designed for everyone to obtain easily.

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Posted by: Nokaru.7831

Nokaru.7831

You’re really comparing GW1 to GW2 CHIPS?

Domain of Anguish dungeon runs took average pugs 2 hours to complete. Only the very best and highly coordinated speedrunners did it in under 25 minutes. You also needed a full set of consumables to make sure you didn’t wipe.

Also, if you wiped in Domain of Anguish, the entire instance reset. You had to start it over from the beginning. But this wasn’t even unique to DoA. Every single dungeon, every single mission in the whole world, until Heart of the North, followed this same rule: If you wiped, that was it.

And you’re complaining about not being able to res-zerg, and an Arah run that takes under an hour?

GW1 had a different type of skill. It’s also find this really amusing: Your double-standard, with regards to how you to expect any sort of respect for how well you say you played that game, when you don’t show the same sentiment who play GW2 better than you do.

(edited by Nokaru.7831)

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Posted by: Jzl.8715

Jzl.8715

I already finished Arah paths 1 to 3. I farmed enough in Arah for the Arah armor. But I refuse to touch path 4 because everyone in my guild said it was brutal time wise. I do not have 4+ hours to burn on this, with the risk of failing and not getting anything.

Just the thought of a 4+ hour long dungeon (success not guaranteed) turns me away. I am not even going to attempt it until it gets changed. It got nothing to do with my player skills, which is very decent btw.

you’re saying that it will take you 4+ hours when a guy linked you a video where it was completed in 43 minutes? It is a skill issue.

Here we go again. Elitist calling everyone else noob.

Until you finish GW1 Winds of Change in Hard Mode and get Zei Ri as a hero, do not lecture me about player skills.

Wait wait… I’m confused… Could someone tell me, who is the “Elitist” again?

[PLUM] – SOR

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Posted by: Leo G.4501

Leo G.4501

All contents in the game should be assessable to everyone, casual or hard core. Everyone playing this game right now paid for it. Why should casual players be “punished” just because they got real life to deal with?

So sports news coverage should cater to people that like basketball but hate golf when they’re covering a PGA tournament?

Boy, you’d think the solution to that is to change the channel. I mean, I paid for the channel…

But by your suggestion, the devs should cater to the players that like PvE so sPvP and tPvP should be made more accessible to the PvEers? Or people that like PvP, the rest of the game should accommodate them as well?

I hope you’re seeing a trend here…

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Posted by: Nokaru.7831

Nokaru.7831

All contents in the game should be assessable to everyone, casual or hard core. Everyone playing this game right now paid for it. Why should casual players be “punished” just because they got real life to deal with?

You paid for access to the game; nothing else. If you logged on, and only attained level 15, should you expect to be able to do Arah Explorable Mode? I mean, you paid for the game, right?! Why are they keeping this content from us!

It’s the same thing.

This kind of attitude of entitlement is really hilarious to me.

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Posted by: CHIPS.6018

CHIPS.6018

You’re really comparing GW1 to GW2 CHIPS?

Domain of Anguish dungeon runs took average pugs 2 hours to complete. Only the very best and highly coordinated speedrunners did it in under 25 minutes. You also needed a full set of consumables to make sure you didn’t wipe.

Also, if you wiped in Domain of Anguish, the entire instance reset. You had to start it over from the beginning. But this wasn’t even unique to DoA. Every single dungeon, every single mission in the whole world, until Heart of the North, followed this same rule: If you wiped, that was it.

And you’re complaining about not being able to res-zerg, and an Arah run that takes under an hour?

GW1 had a different type of skill. It’s also find this really amusing: Your double-standard, with regards to how you to expect any sort of respect for how well you say you played that game, when you don’t show the same sentiment who play GW2 better than you do.

I love how elitist always attack others instead of the issue at hand. It forces others to go on defensive, and then they change the topic altogether. Finally they get the thread locked, which puts a huge grim on their faces.

It is no wonder why guys from Anet like Robert never hears any good suggestions from here. And why they think that removing res-rushing was a great idea. Elitist trolls that just attack other non-elitist players all day. Thanks for ruining the game for casual players. Thanks for cutting our server money.

As for comparing GW1 and GW2, you seems to have forgotten how HARD it was to get party wiped in GW1. Your whole team has to be doing something very very wrong to get party wiped. Usually when fights go bad you would have at least 3 or 4 guys that can escape, and they can come back to Rebirth the rest of the team. And you also seems to have forgotten how easy bosses like Shiro and Lich are, when compared to GW2 bosses. That’s not to mention there were boss killer skills like Empathy that allows you to take out bosses quickly. Lastly you forgotten how easy it was to kill regular mobs in GW1, so even if your fight went badly you would have killed a few mobs off to make the fight easier next time (there is progress). In GW2 mobs just heals back up to 100%.

But that’s a discussion for another time. Why don’t we all go back to the topic at hand.

Chipsy Chips(Necromancer) & Char Ashnoble(Thief)
The Order of Dii[Dii]-SBI→Kaineng→TC→JQ
Necro Encyclopedia-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrAjJ1N6hxs

(edited by CHIPS.6018)

No dungeon/path should be over 25 min.

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Posted by: Lonewolf Kai.3682

Lonewolf Kai.3682

Your suggestion is awesome but obsolete because this IS ALREADY the case
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akoLjsITrk0
This group does arah p4 in 43 min. That means there is no path that takes longer. I really like the dungeons in GW2 and the time it takes to complete them.

You are right. But honestly you and I both know this doesn’t fix the problem.

Reduced title to 25 minutes. ^^

why would you do that? Do you want all dungeons to be CoF? That’s the reason I don’t ever go to CoF. It’s too easy! Arah is supposed to be the hardest dungeon. I’ve been preparing for it for ages. It should not be nerfed. It shouldn’t be run by everyone either.

You have to understand that there are players out there who can only play for 2 hours a day. Anet need to cater the game to them too if they want their money.

I am not saying making the dungeons easier. I am saying that they should break the dungeons down into smaller pieces, part 1,2,3, etc. By breaking the dungeons down they allow and encourage the casual players to try these dungeons.

Those that can play 12 hours a day, think of this as a way of paying for the server. The casual’s money is just as good as the hardcore ’s money. And there are A LOT more casual players than hardcore players.

I would say that there need to be SOME dungeons that require only 20 minutes for a path, and others that require more investment.

Or better yet, Every dungeon should have at least ONE path that requires only 20 minutes at greatly reduced rewards (but still tokens) while others offer a more in depth experience for those that have more time.

I like this idea.

“Be like water” – Bruce Lee

No dungeon/path should be over 25 min.

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Posted by: CHIPS.6018

CHIPS.6018

All contents in the game should be assessable to everyone, casual or hard core. Everyone playing this game right now paid for it. Why should casual players be “punished” just because they got real life to deal with?

You paid for access to the game; nothing else. If you logged on, and only attained level 15, should you expect to be able to do Arah Explorable Mode? I mean, you paid for the game, right?! Why are they keeping this content from us!

It’s the same thing.

This kind of attitude of entitlement is really hilarious to me.

When did I say a level 15 should be able to do a level 80 dungeon? Where did I say that? Queue me on it if you see it. :P

I repeat for the hundredth time. I am saying that certain dungeon paths are way too long for casual players and should be divided into parts. This got nothing to do with difficulty. Its simply an issue with time.

You elitist trolls really got to stay on topic. Other than being a decent player, I am also an experienced forum user so I know all your tricks. Won’t work on me bro.

Chipsy Chips(Necromancer) & Char Ashnoble(Thief)
The Order of Dii[Dii]-SBI→Kaineng→TC→JQ
Necro Encyclopedia-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrAjJ1N6hxs

(edited by CHIPS.6018)

No dungeon/path should be over 25 min.

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: Nokaru.7831

Nokaru.7831

I love how elitist always attack others instead of the issue at hand.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/elitist

Until you finish GW1 Winds of Change in Hard Mode and get Zei Ri as a hero, do not lecture me about player skills.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/hypocrite

I thought you might want to brush up on your English a little.


Also…

CHIPS.6018

When did I say a level 15 should be able to do a level 80 dungeon? Where did I say that? Queue me on it if you see it. :P

“WHOOSH!”

(edited by Nokaru.7831)

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Posted by: CHIPS.6018

CHIPS.6018

I love how elitist always attack others instead of the issue at hand.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/elitist

Until you finish GW1 Winds of Change in Hard Mode and get Zei Ri as a hero, do not lecture me about player skills.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/hypocrite

I thought you might want to brush up on your English a little.

Someone was attacking my player ability, so I got to defend myself. And here you are calling me an elitist.

BTW you are still not on topic. All I hear from you is attack after attack after attack. Classic troll is classic.

Chipsy Chips(Necromancer) & Char Ashnoble(Thief)
The Order of Dii[Dii]-SBI→Kaineng→TC→JQ
Necro Encyclopedia-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrAjJ1N6hxs

No dungeon/path should be over 25 min.

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Posted by: Dyroth.5063

Dyroth.5063

First the game isn’t denying access to anyone. Everyone has full access to everything in game. If Anet came out tomorrow and said if you bought this game last Tuesday, you don’t get to do AC ever then they are denying game play to it’s customers. Of course this is not happening.

What is happening is you personally have limited time. It sucks, that’s life. We all have 24 hours in a day and you can only spend 2 in GW2 while I can spend 6+. You choose how to spend your time and do what you want but don’t expect the game to conform to your life. It would be like me asking, since I have a bad PC that can’t run the game, to make all graphics 8 bit so I have access. I mean I did buy the game after all… See it’s dumb.

Also in all honesty, most paths of AC are very short if you and your party are semi coherent and know what I mean when I say “press v”.

No dungeon/path should be over 25 min.

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Posted by: Nokaru.7831

Nokaru.7831

Because if the said dungeons takes over 25 minutes for these best players in the world, that dungeon is not accessible for casual players at all.

Casual players might be very skillful and knows what they are doing. But they have limit play time everyday. Some only have 2 hours a day. When the dungeon takes over 25 minutes, on top of time need for finding a group, dungeons becomes too time consuming for these casual players. They will be limited by time, not skills.

Sounds like you want a dungeon finder. If you are having trouble finding a group, go to www.gw2lfg.com. I agree there should be an in-game tool, since not everyone uses that web site. However, by now many veterans to PUGs do, so I don’t find this reason that valid.

As it is right now, Arah dungeon path 4 is impossible for any casual player that only have 2 hours a day to play. This path 4 takes over 4 hours for a lot of players. Some spent 12 hours in this dungeon and still failed it. It isn’t fair to have contents totally inaccessible for these casual players just because they got real life stuff to deal with.

I did Path 4 in two pugs last week, and the run took under an hour. We one-shot Simin in one run, and two-shot her in another.

But I refuse to touch path 4 because everyone in my guild said it was brutal time wise. I do not have 4+ hours to burn on this, with the risk of failing and not getting anything.

If you haven’t even done the path, I don’t know why you’re saying it’s impossible. It isn’t.

No dungeon/path should be over 25 min.

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Posted by: Ioflux.4369

Ioflux.4369

If you think you are as “skilled” as you say you are, then you will be fine with completing everything in your 2hr time constraint. If you can’t, well hate to break it you, you’re not skilled enough cause nothing takes 2hr+.

No dungeon/path should be over 25 min.

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Posted by: Leo G.4501

Leo G.4501

If this is a problem with Arah path 4, I don’t see anything wrong with not doing path 4.

Personally, I hate that path and have only run it twice (successfully) as of this day. I don’t plan to ever play it again and that’s my choice. I won’t request the path be nerfed or chopped into bite-sized bits because there’s no need. Some people can and do run it with ease and after getting my Dungeon Master title, I’m just going to accept I don’t like Arah path 4 and not do it.

Doesn’t mean content is locked away from me, I can still get the Armor/weapons from the dungeon. But I chose to ignore a piece of content out of personal preference. How much time you have to play the game is a personal preference. If you want to play, find time to, set a certain day from a specific week in the month to play longer.

No dungeon/path should be over 25 min.

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Posted by: DigitalKirin.9714

DigitalKirin.9714

I myself also consider myself a fairly casual player. (Work 2 jobs, play for ~3ish hours five nights a week, give or take)

However, I feel that your requests are somewhat misguided.

I already finished Arah paths 1 to 3. I farmed enough in Arah for the Arah armor. But I refuse to touch path 4 because everyone in my guild said it was brutal time wise. I do not have 4+ hours to burn on this, with the risk of failing and not getting anything.

You have the word of your guild members as a gospel that you are adhering to and trying to push an agenda on these forums based off of that. It’s not even your own personal experience.

A casual player could very well complete path 4 in under 2 hours given some practice so they become familiar with the run. It’s somewhat unfortunate that you are denying yourself the opportunity to find out because of your refusal to try it out.

Perhaps you fail the first time. Maybe it takes more than your 2 hours. Is that time wasted? Only if you believe it so. But you could instead take the stance that you learned something from your experience, and the next time you could go in, armed with that knowledge, and get further, and further until you actually accomplish the path in under 2 hours.

Perhaps as an aside, how about some evidence from others that Have finished path 4?
How many people have finished Path 4 in over 4 hours?
Under 4 hours?
Under 2 hours?

Genevieve Talbot [NP] – Noble Phantasm on Stormbluff Isle

No dungeon/path should be over 25 min.

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Posted by: Dyroth.5063

Dyroth.5063

I myself also consider myself a fairly casual player. (Work 2 jobs, play for ~3ish hours five nights a week, give or take)

However, I feel that your requests are somewhat misguided.

I already finished Arah paths 1 to 3. I farmed enough in Arah for the Arah armor. But I refuse to touch path 4 because everyone in my guild said it was brutal time wise. I do not have 4+ hours to burn on this, with the risk of failing and not getting anything.

You have the word of your guild members as a gospel that you are adhering to and trying to push an agenda on these forums based off of that. It’s not even your own personal experience.

A casual player could very well complete path 4 in under 2 hours given some practice so they become familiar with the run. It’s somewhat unfortunate that you are denying yourself the opportunity to find out because of your refusal to try it out.

Perhaps you fail the first time. Maybe it takes more than your 2 hours. Is that time wasted? Only if you believe it so. But you could instead take the stance that you learned something from your experience, and the next time you could go in, armed with that knowledge, and get further, and further until you actually accomplish the path in under 2 hours.

Perhaps as an aside, how about some evidence from others that Have finished path 4?
How many people have finished Path 4 in over 4 hours?
Under 4 hours?
Under 2 hours?

Quoting because I like this guy and his mindset.

No dungeon/path should be over 25 min.

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Posted by: DigitalKirin.9714

DigitalKirin.9714

Thank you Dyroth, I appreciate it!

You’re a good person. o_o)-b

Genevieve Talbot [NP] – Noble Phantasm on Stormbluff Isle

No dungeon/path should be over 25 min.

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Posted by: Jzl.8715

Jzl.8715

GW1 had a different type of skill. It’s also find this really amusing: Your double-standard, with regards to how you to expect any sort of respect for how well you say you played that game, when you don’t show the same sentiment who play GW2 better than you do.

I love how elitist always attack others instead of the issue at hand. It forces others to go on defensive, and then they change the topic altogether. Finally they get the thread locked, which puts a huge grim on their faces.

People pointing out your double standard is extremely valid. When I played GW1 for a couple of month prior to GW2, I didn’t think anything ways actually all that easy, but hey, I didn’t expect to beat everything in GW1 within 4 months. So what I am confused about is the difference of your attitude towards GW1 and GW2 content. Did the so called challenging content become trivial 2 months after released in GW1? Don’t forget GW1 released for a 8 years now, skill and awareness and experience do grow with time, same will apply to GW2.

When GW2 just launched beating the AC explorable paths were considered such an achievement, and look where we are now. Truth be told, I have never seen any MMO so casual friendly as GW2, for one there is no subscription fee, I can’t see how any MMO can be more casual friendly than that. Secondly there is a downstate, then defeated state, it already give you more window to make mistakes. Lastly regarding when people are able to rez zerg, I personally have never seen such a unbelievably unpunishing death system . WoW was considered a revolution for not substantially punishing players in an MMO, but I don’t recall being able to get back into combat if dead, save one or two combat resurrections. People need to start seeing encounters as a closed environment and deal with it as such.

Regarding your statement about 25 minute changes, you are simply assuming that such a so called good players does not exist. As a matter of fact, I would say 70% of the dungeons can definitely be done in under 25 minutes even at the overall skill level today, and as time goes by the time will only decrease. I personally don’t see a problem of having a few long dungeons in there. Your assumption of 2 hours a day is extremely arbitrary. People already have pointed out for you that the path you are talking about does not take 4 hours as you stated, my first time in Arah path 4 took around 1 hour 40 minutes. Also, you have mentioned yourself that you haven’t done path 4 yet, maybe give it a try, and judge for yourself. You might know your guildies well, but their opinion certainly does not reflect the general population, nor you. After saying all that, we have to get back to the beginning. What makes you so certain that a dungeon that can be done in 25 minutes will not take the not prepared, less experienced people more than 2 hours to complete? Arah path 3 can be done in 25 minutes, just saying. So the way you have backed up your arguments is extremely contrived. I do see some merits in making contents bite sized. But I don’t see any problem with having a few longer ones in there, because like I said, most of them can already be done in under 25 minutes.

Lastly, your notion of casual people doesn’t yet have access to everything is extremely flawed, as someone have already pointed out. Nobody is charging casual players 2 pennies for every hour while giving a free pass to more invested people. If the game provides 1000 hours of gameplay, everyone who have paid for it have access to all of it. People who play 10 hours a day gets there in 100 days, people who spend 2 hours get there in 500 days. I personally don’t see how that is making any game inaccessible. It all comes down to these knee jerk reactions. When you see an achievement that takes a total 10 hours to complete, immediately people see it as inaccessible to them because they are “casual”. I do think playing for 2 hours and complaining for not being able to get 8 hours worth of reward ridiculous.

Lastly, if you put yourself in such a high position of being able to provide positive and relevant feedback, don’t start bashing others halfway down your own thread, and if you have a passion against elitist behavior, don’t act like one when you talk about GW1. Self contradiction takes away a lot of credibility, just a token of advice.

[PLUM] – SOR

(edited by Jzl.8715)

No dungeon/path should be over 25 min.

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: Leo G.4501

Leo G.4501

Perhaps as an aside, how about some evidence from others that Have finished path 4?
How many people have finished Path 4 in over 4 hours?
Under 4 hours?
Under 2 hours?

The times I completed it, the first was probably 4 hours give or take 15min.

The second time was probably 1hr 30min, but the f’ed up thing was the Simin fight took 45 min of that time.

Yeah, I don’t like that dungeon and I don’t like that fight. It’s boring, in fact.

No dungeon/path should be over 25 min.

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Posted by: Strifey.7215

Strifey.7215

Every single dungeon path except Arah 4 can be done under 25 minutes.

Arah 4 is basically the “bonus” path to challenge players, there’s a reason Arah is the only dungeon with 4 paths and is also the last current dungeon in the game.

This thread is basically complaining about Arah 4, not about dungeons in general. Expecting every bit of content to be quick and easy in an MMO is just dumb, there’s a reason all MMOs have varying content that is easier or harder to give different types of players things to do.

Nerfing one path to be faster or easier which doesn’t even give unique rewards other then an achievement title because some people don’t like things that are a bit more difficult or longer is the dumbest, most entitled thing I have ever heard.

Compared to “hard” stuff in other MMOs, Arah 4 is nothing, there are so many raids and gear and things casuals would not experience in other MMOs compared to GW2.

And what exactly is unique that you get from Arah 4 other then two words under your name? Oh nothing. Because you can farm the other 3 paths that take less then 25 minutes if you actually want the gear which is just cosmetic and isn’t stronger then any other exotic gear.

Guard/War/Mesmer and Dungeon Guides:
https://www.youtube.com/user/strife025

(edited by Strifey.7215)

No dungeon/path should be over 25 min.

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Posted by: Wethospu.6437

Wethospu.6437

But is it hard or just awfully long?
How can something be considered hard if it can be soloed (like most of the Arah path 4)?

No dungeon/path should be over 25 min.

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Posted by: Strifey.7215

Strifey.7215

But is it hard or just awfully long?
How can something be considered hard if it can be soloed (like most of the Arah path 4)?

Well I did say longer then anything else as well, but it’s all relative.

This 80F water is hotter then this 50F water, but are either of them really that hot?

Relative to everything else in the game except high level fractals Arah is harder.

I mean what’s really hard?

AC? lol
CM? Nope
TA? Not really
SE? Path 2 is long but not that hard except maybe the last boss.
CoF? lol
HotW? Only hard part is not falling asleep from the high survivability and one attack each boss has.
CoE? Nope
Arah? In terms of named dungeons, I would say things like GL or things that actually require teamwork like Simin are “harder” then most of the other things.

So yes, I consider it “harder” then other dungeons when we’re talking about GW2.

I mean everything is “easy” once you learn patterns and strategies. Outside of PvP which is truly dynamic combat, MMOs are all about puzzling together builds, patterns, and skills to eventually make things easy. Sure once you learn the patterns and bosses of Arah 4, it’s no different then anything else, you hit your keys in a certain timing or do certain things and you complete ‘x’ event. But from a new player perspective, I do consider it harder compared to the amount of learning required for most other paths.

The same reason people say Dark/Demon Souls is hard, but it’s really not hard once you play through the game once and know everything.

Guard/War/Mesmer and Dungeon Guides:
https://www.youtube.com/user/strife025

(edited by Strifey.7215)

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Posted by: Horrorscope.7632

Horrorscope.7632

What about 30 minutes?

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Posted by: haviz.1340

haviz.1340

This 80F water is hotter then this 50F water, but are either of them really that hot?

And now half of the posters have to do quick calculation to convert Fahrenheit into Celcius degrees ;p

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Posted by: Leo G.4501

Leo G.4501

CM? Nope

Lol I’m sorry but CM is cheap! Yeah I watched Wethospu’s CM solo video but I could tell he just had a ‘blast’ soloing that thing (/sarcasm).

The mobs in there are cheap. I don’t care if your group is amazing but snipers that aggro at stupid ranges, archers that use distortion multiple times for multiple seconds, bombers that spam cluster bomb AoEs all over the place, bandits that heal their allies and are armed with stability, bandits that stack bleeds and poison on you dang near non-stop…

Funny though, I run CM alot.

No dungeon/path should be over 25 min.

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Posted by: haviz.1340

haviz.1340

Lol I’m sorry but CM is cheap! Yeah I watched Wethospu’s CM solo video but I could tell he just had a ‘blast’ soloing that thing (/sarcasm).

The mobs in there are cheap. I don’t care if your group is amazing but snipers that aggro at stupid ranges, archers that use distortion multiple times for multiple seconds, bombers that spam cluster bomb AoEs all over the place, bandits that heal their allies and are armed with stability, bandits that stack bleeds and poison on you dang near non-stop…

Funny though, I run CM alot.

Agree, I consider CM harder than Arah.

No dungeon/path should be over 25 min.

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Posted by: Strifey.7215

Strifey.7215

CM? Nope

Lol I’m sorry but CM is cheap! Yeah I watched Wethospu’s CM solo video but I could tell he just had a ‘blast’ soloing that thing (/sarcasm).

The mobs in there are cheap. I don’t care if your group is amazing but snipers that aggro at stupid ranges, archers that use distortion multiple times for multiple seconds, bombers that spam cluster bomb AoEs all over the place, bandits that heal their allies and are armed with stability, bandits that stack bleeds and poison on you dang near non-stop…

Funny though, I run CM alot.

It’s no harder then any other “hard” dungeon with the right skills and organization…

Guard/War/Mesmer and Dungeon Guides:
https://www.youtube.com/user/strife025

No dungeon/path should be over 25 min.

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Posted by: Leo G.4501

Leo G.4501

Well I didn’t say hard, I said cheap. Those kittens are cheap kittens. Probably why I enjoy blasting them to kingdom come with all the gods’ elements or sinking metal deep in their kitten skulls.