Guild Wars 2

Good day,

As the topic suggest, I have noticed that characters under level 80 have a hard time to participate in dungeons. Mostly in PUG-groups to be precise. It seems everyone expects you to use a lv 80 character and to use full berserker gear.

I for one, find character leveling with the use of dungeons much more fun then exploring the map or anything else. But since the character I want to train has yet to be lv 80, I get kicked most of the time or people want me to switch.

My suggestion:
Should there be some balancing, so people are most likely not to kick you from PUG’s?
I have yet to think of a solution how this “balancing” would look like.

I would like to hear other people’s opinion on this matter…

I l

There is some balancing, its called downscaling. Nevertheless you are not pulling the same weight as a fully geared lv80 with traits, not talking about your missing experience with the class.

The solution is to make your own party with your own requirements. The solution is not expecting anet to make people go out of their way for you, or anet making underleveled characters as strong as lv80s.

It’s really difficult for some 80’s to complete a dungeon, let alone on a lower level. I started dungeoneering around level 60 on my first toon with some guild mates. One of my guildies loves to dungeon and he wanted us to come with him. Thankfully he was able to solo some of the more difficult contents and we did wipe few times. I think that’s the best way to do it. I was in a smaller guild then and most people didn’t mind when helping out a lower level toon to level. I guess the best part about that is that I knew what I wanted to do as my endgame content. I am in a bigger PVE guild now and most expect you to be 80 and properly geared in order to be in a party with them.

I know few people ask others in the party to hold the cut scene to get the xp at the end.. and that would probably be the best way to do it. Use your 80 for the run and ask someone to hold the cut scene. AC paths are good for that as well as some others. Some pugs won’t but most will. Or find a guild, ask some guild mates to help you out.

The bosses hit pretty hard and there’s a steep learning curve to dungeons, mainly skipping mobs and learning the mechanics. It can be a quite harrowing experience to those who are just starting to level. Also at lower levels, you are missing some useful utilities that can help in your team so you are essentially being carried. That’s not to say that dungeons can’t be completed at lower levels, it will just be a more painful and longer run. I think it’s better to get your first toon to 80, gear it up properly.. at least to rares before dungeoneering unless someone who has experience wants to take you in to show you the ropes.

You can’t expect lvl 80’s to carry you.

Nobody carried them so they won’t carry you.

Beleth.8249:

You can’t expect lvl 80’s to carry you.

Nobody carried them so they won’t carry you.

This is not entirely true.

I enjoy taking new players into their first dungeons teaching them the ropes as long as they are level appropriate and geared to their level.

But you should never expect a person to help. Some people will, but you should always ask.

I think you are forgetting about the mini dungeons.

In AC path 3, if you have one or two Eles, actually it’s a breeze and it’s quite easy to carry a non-80. But yeah, generally it’s the case.

Instead of joining LFG groups, try making your own group (all welcome, lvls x+, I’m lvl x, etc.)

There are players willing to “carry” you and guide you through dungeons, but you’re unlikely to stumble upon them using the LFG tool.
I suggest joining a friendly guild with people that can help you with dungeons.

Also, you can usually find a low-level group for AC story. It’s an easy dungeon and many people are farming it at low levels.

The general consensus seems to be to make your own group and ignore the 80 only ones. I personally don’t care if I’m in a group with those who aren’t 80 (if I’m not pressed for time), or even if they’re new. If they can follow directions, or know what to do, they’re welcome in my book. I was actually in a PUG SE P3 80s only group recently with a completely new level 61 player (so under the actual dungeon level), but none of felt like kicking. Guy just followed us and everything worked out.

I’m not sure how balancing would work. There’s already downscaling, but changing that would probably have pretty big consequences on most of the game.

I see sub 80 groups all the time. AC especially people care more if you’re experienced than 80 for speed runs since it makes so little difference. If nobody has one up, make your own. Simple.

But also don’t complain if the lfg says 80s only and you join on a non-80.

Not much Anet can do, overall the downscaling isn’t too bad and I see plenty of groups taking lower levels. On top of that I’ve only once seen someone say no to someone politely asking if he could relog in the end (either at 50% of the bosses HP or after the kill with someone watching the cutscane.) I don’t count cases where the opener asked this since this would benefit no-one and he should have let someone else open.

Working with a problem/inconvenience always beats hopeing someone will fix it. Even if Anet makes ‘low-level’ dungeons there’re 2 ways it can go; the current dungeon content, or they’ll be deserted since the amount of 80s is bigger than numbers in a certain level-range.

TL;DR:
- Make your own groups, recommend to welcome anyone rather than demand 80s.
- Join groups that welcome anyone, regardless of level/gear.
- Join a guild that takes lower-levels in their runs.
- Asks friends to come along.
- Ask if you can relog in the end, don’t open the dungeon and relog at the last boss (low percentage hp or during the video.)

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Beleth.8249:

You can’t expect lvl 80’s to carry you.

Nobody carried them so they won’t carry you.

This is not entirely true.

I enjoy taking new players into their first dungeons teaching them the ropes as long as they are level appropriate and geared to their level.

But you should never expect a person to help. Some people will, but you should always ask.

Problem is that a huge amount of them wants to be carried without learning nor give any contribution. Many of them will come with worst gear (Even white and way too many levels lower than their current level), won’t listen to any suggestion, force you to drag them to the end and even insult you instead of thanking you. This I am saying out of experiences I had, which make me think twice before deciding to help someone else.
And as you said, ask for help. When my sister levelled up her alt through AC she always made her own party, just saying “Any level welcome.” We both were surprised to see how many 80s joined.

My advice, do it with guildies and in case that’s not possible make an LFG “all lvls welcome”. You might have to wait a while, but you’ll get a group for most of the popular paths.

As for berserker gear… 90% of the people don’t run it and of the 10% that ask for zerk gear at least half only pretend to use it. So dw, because most groups have no requirements listed.

Im with cranos above. Also storymode dungeons are your friend.

KevinB.9643:

My suggestion:
Should there be some balancing, so people are most likely not to kick you from PUG’s?
I have yet to think of a solution how this “balancing” would look like.

I’m afraid this won’t help much. The scaling actually isn’t all that bad, and a low-level player who is properly equipped for their level and knows their class (and possibly basic encounter mechanics of the dungeon they’re running) actually is in a better position than an 80 who doesn’t know/care how their class and the dungeon really works.

The problem is a) to figure out how well the person you group up with actually knows what they are doing, which you can’t properly tell until way into the dungeon, and b) how well the group as a whole is willing to figure out what works in their group composition, if it doesn’t fit the meta setup/meta strategies.

I’ve done Ascalon Catacombs path 1+3 with groups with only a few (non-berserker) 80s and several low-levels (lowest even below 35, my own as well as friends at one time or another), even if not a single elementalist was involved. In guild groups this mostly works well, takes a while longer (and possibly a few silver for the occasional wipe) but we have a lot of fun. In fact, we don’t often run dungeons with all-80s groups in our guild runs, there’s almost always a person (or three) joining with a leveling toon.

In random groups I’ve seen this work too, if the group is willing to take the time, but I’ve also seen such groups fail miserably because people expected the “stack here and burn down” strategies to work, which they clearly didn’t for the specific group due to not enough damage. Not everyone is interested in adapting to a non-perfect group setup, which is their right, but won’t help succeed if the group clearly is non-perfect. You either adapt the strategy or abandon the group.

There are way too many variables involved that depend on the people behind the keyboard that simply can’t be balanced automatically to make mixed-level groups “viable” for everyone. Even if the balancing would be “good” enough to make a lvl35-player exactly as strong as (or even stronger than) a down-scaled lvl80, you’d still have to change the preconception in a lot of player’s heads that 80 is flat-out better than 35, and that’s something no amount of balancing in-game will ever manage completely.

I enjoy well-running full-80s groups as well as fun groups of mixed levels, but each in their own time. If you want to play sub-80s, go looking for like-minded people. There are a lot of them, even on the LfG-tool, even without extra “balancing”.