No one got DPS nerfed, only buffed
………… ok man whatever you say
Have seen pugs struggle with strategies like doing Gorseval without the use of updrafts. Ended up being quite close most of the time.
Those would have been wipes after the damage nerf. Obviously damage uptime and rotations could have been way better and the timer is still not going to be a problem for the better groups.
Still, facts are still facts. Call it nerfs or whatever you want. Elementalists got their damage reduced big a pretty substantial amount. Declaring anything else is just silly.
Yeah, OP, you’ve got a pretty loose definition of the words ‘nerfed’ and ‘buffed’ that you’re operating on here.
Yeah, OP, you’ve got a pretty loose definition of the words ‘nerfed’ and ‘buffed’ that you’re operating on here.
It’s pretty obvious he meant relatively, which is really what matters in this game.
As far as PVE goes, he’s right. Relatively nothing changed.
PvP though showed some classes switching places on the food chain. So in this sense he is wrong. There were nerfs relatively.
Yeah, OP, you’ve got a pretty loose definition of the words ‘nerfed’ and ‘buffed’ that you’re operating on here.
It’s pretty obvious he meant relatively, which is really what matters in this game.
As far as PVE goes, he’s right. Relatively nothing changed.
Well this is obviously wrong. If we want to actually discuss how things work, PvE is the part of the game where absolute damage matters the most due to the fact that mob hp is a standard benchmark for comparison. Ele got objectively nerfed and nobody else got objectively buffed because the total damage output of a party will be lower.
Elementalist did receive a DPS nerf, the CD are longer now which means the rotations from previous builds are not reliable anymore. Thief DPS got nerfed aswell with the staff damage reductions and DH does more DPS now with the Scepter changes (I’m pretty sure Scepter/Torch is better than Hammer), so it might get picked more in raids.
Power Scrapper definitely got its damage nerfed.
-50% damage on Shock Shield is huge
Thunderclap damage being delayed is really bad against moving targets.
Didnt notice any change, we killed Gorseval (with no updrafts) faster than ever. Already thought he got nerfed
1st person worldwide to reach 35,000 achievement points.
Yeah, OP, you’ve got a pretty loose definition of the words ‘nerfed’ and ‘buffed’ that you’re operating on here.
It’s pretty obvious he meant relatively, which is really what matters in this game.
As far as PVE goes, he’s right. Relatively nothing changed.
Well this is obviously wrong. If we want to actually discuss how things work, PvE is the part of the game where absolute damage matters the most due to the fact that mob hp is a standard benchmark for comparison. Ele got objectively nerfed and nobody else got objectively buffed because the total damage output of a party will be lower.
Yes, but regardless of whether you are in first place with a huge lead or a narrow one, you are still in first place. That was my point. Basically the Ele’s job got harder, but at least he didn’t lose his job.
Engi and Thief have been standing around at the unemployment office for the last 8 months. As far as raiding is concerned anyway. Fractals and Overworld are negligible.
Yeah, OP, you’ve got a pretty loose definition of the words ‘nerfed’ and ‘buffed’ that you’re operating on here.
It’s pretty obvious he meant relatively, which is really what matters in this game.
As far as PVE goes, he’s right. Relatively nothing changed.
Well this is obviously wrong. If we want to actually discuss how things work, PvE is the part of the game where absolute damage matters the most due to the fact that mob hp is a standard benchmark for comparison. Ele got objectively nerfed and nobody else got objectively buffed because the total damage output of a party will be lower.
Yes, but regardless of whether you are in first place with a huge lead or a narrow one, you are still in first place. That was my point. Basically the Ele’s job got harder, but at least he didn’t lose his job.
Engi and Thief have been standing around at the unemployment office for the last 8 months. As far as raiding is concerned anyway. Fractals and Overworld are negligible.
Yeah, but your point is wrong. You’re saying ‘oh, ele didn’t get nerfed because they’re still really strong’ which is patently absurd. Ele obviously got nerfed. They’re ALSO still really strong. Trying to deny the fact that ele got nerfed just looks foolish.
What? Thief is 2# dps?
It is definatly not for sure
I hope for more nerfs to ele and thief, so other classes are viable for dps roles in Raids.
I hope for more nerfs to ele and thief, so other classes are viable for dps roles in Raids.
Thief is still 2nd fiddle to ele. Only reason to ever bring a thief is if you don’t have anyone capable of playing ele.
But as long as thief maintains high dps by turning off your brain and auto attacking, they might as well just nerf it into the ground and be done with it.
The vast majority of posts in this thread are completely worthless. And thief is hardly #2 in dps… ele does significantly less than thief on targets with a small hit box. Xera / vg / sabetha. If anything eles is now the more support heavy and ranged capable lower dps build in any realistic scenario…..
Have fun. Be Alive. K Thnx Bye.
Power Scrapper definitely got its damage nerfed.
-50% damage on Shock Shield is huge
Thunderclap damage being delayed is really bad against moving targets.
Power dps engi uses rifle anyways.
Have fun. Be Alive. K Thnx Bye.
I hope for more nerfs to ele and thief, so other classes are viable for dps roles in Raids.
Thief is still 2nd fiddle to ele. Only reason to ever bring a thief is if you don’t have anyone capable of playing ele.
But as long as thief maintains high dps by turning off your brain and auto attacking, they might as well just nerf it into the ground and be done with it.
My eyes are bleeding.
[qT] Quantify – Hardcore PvE Guild
Elementalist and thief didn’t get damage nerfed, they are still in the #1 and #2 spot respectively. Since the bracket didn’t budge, I find it hard to declare them as “nerfed”. But the gap with other professions (ranger, engineer, mesmer, guardian, warrior) was closed, so other professions with less DPS got indirectly buffed
lol gap was closed?
You do realize mesmer is doing 13.7k DPS while an ele is doing 34-36k, right? Power ranger is a pitiful 17-18k DPS.
And don’t bring this crap about utility/support because PS warrior with scholar runes does 26k DPS and brings the strongest raid buffs in the game, while being ahead of power mesmer by 12k DPS and ahead of power ranger by 8-9k DPS.
PvE DPS balance is terrible and so is role competitiveness.
Hurray, at some point that they nerf ele enough you’ll stack 3 daredevils or 3 condi engineers or 3 guardians instead.
Such wonderful design.
(edited by Zenith.7301)
Elementalist and thief didn’t get damage nerfed, they are still in the #1 and #2 spot respectively. Since the bracket didn’t budge, I find it hard to declare them as “nerfed”. But the gap with other professions (ranger, engineer, mesmer, guardian, warrior) was closed, so other professions with less DPS got indirectly buffed
lol gap was closed?
You do realize mesmer is doing 13.7k DPS while an ele is doing 34-36k, right? Power ranger is a pitiful 17-18k DPS.
And don’t bring this crap about utility/support because PS warrior with scholar runes does 26k DPS and brings the strongest raid buffs in the game, while being ahead of power mesmer by 12k DPS and ahead of power ranger by 8-9k DPS.
PvE DPS balance is terrible and so is role competitiveness.
Hurray, at some point that they nerf ele enough you’ll stack 3 daredevils or 3 condi engineers or 3 guardians instead.
Such wonderful design.
Maybe they want casuals to run raids by getting their Guardian in it and spam 1 like in a zerg fest? Also raid bosses are coming to Living World, Vale Guardian is just the beggining.
Elementalist and thief didn’t get damage nerfed, they are still in the #1 and #2 spot respectively. Since the bracket didn’t budge, I find it hard to declare them as “nerfed”. But the gap with other professions (ranger, engineer, mesmer, guardian, warrior) was closed, so other professions with less DPS got indirectly buffed
lol gap was closed?
You do realize mesmer is doing 13.7k DPS while an ele is doing 34-36k, right? Power ranger is a pitiful 17-18k DPS.
And don’t bring this crap about utility/support because PS warrior with scholar runes does 26k DPS and brings the strongest raid buffs in the game, while being ahead of power mesmer by 12k DPS and ahead of power ranger by 8-9k DPS.
PvE DPS balance is terrible and so is role competitiveness.
Hurray, at some point that they nerf ele enough you’ll stack 3 daredevils or 3 condi engineers or 3 guardians instead.
Such wonderful design.
While I agree that Phalanx Strength is an absolute bullkitten trait, keep in mind that Mesmer and Ranger buffs are much more unique while you could easily have other classes to generate might, even though it wouldn’t be as simple as with a PS.
Elementalist and thief didn’t get damage nerfed, they are still in the #1 and #2 spot respectively. Since the bracket didn’t budge, I find it hard to declare them as “nerfed”. But the gap with other professions (ranger, engineer, mesmer, guardian, warrior) was closed, so other professions with less DPS got indirectly buffed
lol gap was closed?
You do realize mesmer is doing 13.7k DPS while an ele is doing 34-36k, right? Power ranger is a pitiful 17-18k DPS.
And don’t bring this crap about utility/support because PS warrior with scholar runes does 26k DPS and brings the strongest raid buffs in the game, while being ahead of power mesmer by 12k DPS and ahead of power ranger by 8-9k DPS.
PvE DPS balance is terrible and so is role competitiveness.
Hurray, at some point that they nerf ele enough you’ll stack 3 daredevils or 3 condi engineers or 3 guardians instead.
Such wonderful design.
While I agree that Phalanx Strength is an absolute bullkitten trait, keep in mind that Mesmer and Ranger buffs are much more unique while you could easily have other classes to generate might, even though it wouldn’t be as simple as with a PS.
It’s not the might you’re concerned about.
It’s the OP banners and empower allies. The banners are unique to the warrior class and provide a metric ton of multiple offensive stats, even a higher amount of stats than a simple stat buff aura like empower allies (which warriors also get lol, and the most important power damage stat to boot) or spotter.
PS is the icing on the cake since all a warrior needs to do to proc all that might is do his DPS rotation while other classes would need to shift their builds to lower DPS to make up for that might deficit.
There is absolutely no reason whatsoever for power mesmer and ranger to be doing the garbage DPS they currently are.
Especially since you have these classes be stuck with garbage DPS for utility that isn’t even that useful outside raids as in WvW a frontline/backline ele is a far superior healer for a zerg without the massive DPS loss of a druid, and mesmers are veil/portal bots since you can’t even remotely land alacrity/quickness reliably on a group with stationary wells and boon strips from necros, let alone illusions dying immediately to aoe.
So you have ranger and mesmer suffer in all formats but raiding, and in raids they are pigeonholed and punished far more than similar utility classes like warrior and revenant who do so much more DPS while providing substantial utility.
(edited by Zenith.7301)
“So you have ranger and mesmer suffer in all formats but raiding, and in raids they are pigeonholed and punished far more than similar utility classes like warrior and revenant who do so much more DPS while providing substantial utility.”
I agree 100% Zenith. That’s sadly the problem with the raids, way under-balanced and they make certain classes only good (barely) for only a few things. In trying to not have the “Holy trinity” they are crippling the whole raid experience in what you have to bring to a group.
What’s wrong with a tank, if needed, some heals and ANY DPS? Ah well, its what makes this game different I reckon.
“So you have ranger and mesmer suffer in all formats but raiding, and in raids they are pigeonholed and punished far more than similar utility classes like warrior and revenant who do so much more DPS while providing substantial utility.”
I agree 100% Zenith. That’s sadly the problem with the raids, way under-balanced and they make certain classes only good (barely) for only a few things. In trying to not have the “Holy trinity” they are crippling the whole raid experience in what you have to bring to a group.
What’s wrong with a tank, if needed, some heals and ANY DPS? Ah well, its what makes this game different I reckon.
We already got a trinity. Chronos can tank, and druids are pigeonholed into healer roles.
The problem is not lack of roles, it’s that some classes utterly dominate those roles and push everybody else to the side.
“So you have ranger and mesmer suffer in all formats but raiding, and in raids they are pigeonholed and punished far more than similar utility classes like warrior and revenant who do so much more DPS while providing substantial utility.”
I agree 100% Zenith. That’s sadly the problem with the raids, way under-balanced and they make certain classes only good (barely) for only a few things. In trying to not have the “Holy trinity” they are crippling the whole raid experience in what you have to bring to a group.
What’s wrong with a tank, if needed, some heals and ANY DPS? Ah well, its what makes this game different I reckon.We already got a trinity. Chronos can tank, and druids are pigeonholed into healer roles.
The problem is not lack of roles, it’s that some classes utterly dominate those roles and push everybody else to the side.
It’s not just chronos that can tank. Anyone can tank, it’s simply that chronomancers have such low damage that you lose the least from sticking them in that role. It’s not any particular ability that makes chronomancers such popular tanks, it’s their inability to deal competitive damage.
So Pre-patch I saw a video of a guy using a Condi Ranger and pulling 30k dps, unrealistic buffs of course. Got me curious though, what is the max selfish DPS on different professions. We see the listings as they are used in raids primarily, but what are the actual max DPS options of these professions if slotted as purely a DPS addition? IE if you had your healing/buffing druid and just needed a condi DPS slot what is Ranger at now? Or if you have PS war covered what is the best DPS war?
“So you have ranger and mesmer suffer in all formats but raiding, and in raids they are pigeonholed and punished far more than similar utility classes like warrior and revenant who do so much more DPS while providing substantial utility.”
I agree 100% Zenith. That’s sadly the problem with the raids, way under-balanced and they make certain classes only good (barely) for only a few things. In trying to not have the “Holy trinity” they are crippling the whole raid experience in what you have to bring to a group.
What’s wrong with a tank, if needed, some heals and ANY DPS? Ah well, its what makes this game different I reckon.We already got a trinity. Chronos can tank, and druids are pigeonholed into healer roles.
The problem is not lack of roles, it’s that some classes utterly dominate those roles and push everybody else to the side.
It’s not just chronos that can tank. Anyone can tank, it’s simply that chronomancers have such low damage that you lose the least from sticking them in that role. It’s not any particular ability that makes chronomancers such popular tanks, it’s their inability to deal competitive damage.
Well, yeah, and in many encounters there is no strict tank so much as a trigger for who gets aggro.
But chronomancers are not just appealing for the tank job because of terrible DPS. Blurred Frenzy is a stupidly low cd evasion, and you’ve got 2 shield blocks on top of signet invulnerability.
More importantly, the chrono can use his meta weapons to effectively tank, whereas most other classes like say revenant would be resorting to the garbage staff or offhand shield, etc.
Nevertheless, you are right in that it just so happens that the two classes with terrible DPS happen to be the classes pigeonholed to tank and healer respectively.
I hope for more nerfs to ele and thief, so other classes are viable for dps roles in Raids.
Thief is still 2nd fiddle to ele. Only reason to ever bring a thief is if you don’t have anyone capable of playing ele.But as long as thief maintains high dps by turning off your brain and auto attacking, they might as well just nerf it into the ground and be done with it.
Correcting myself: Seems like actually thief is higher dps on small hit box enemies now, so I guess they are worth taking on some fights.
“So you have ranger and mesmer suffer in all formats but raiding, and in raids they are pigeonholed and punished far more than similar utility classes like warrior and revenant who do so much more DPS while providing substantial utility.”
I agree 100% Zenith. That’s sadly the problem with the raids, way under-balanced and they make certain classes only good (barely) for only a few things. In trying to not have the “Holy trinity” they are crippling the whole raid experience in what you have to bring to a group.
What’s wrong with a tank, if needed, some heals and ANY DPS? Ah well, its what makes this game different I reckon.We already got a trinity. Chronos can tank, and druids are pigeonholed into healer roles.
The problem is not lack of roles, it’s that some classes utterly dominate those roles and push everybody else to the side.
It’s not just chronos that can tank. Anyone can tank, it’s simply that chronomancers have such low damage that you lose the least from sticking them in that role. It’s not any particular ability that makes chronomancers such popular tanks, it’s their inability to deal competitive damage.
Well, yeah, and in many encounters there is no strict tank so much as a trigger for who gets aggro.
But chronomancers are not just appealing for the tank job because of terrible DPS. Blurred Frenzy is a stupidly low cd evasion, and you’ve got 2 shield blocks on top of signet invulnerability.
More importantly, the chrono can use his meta weapons to effectively tank, whereas most other classes like say revenant would be resorting to the garbage staff or offhand shield, etc.
Nevertheless, you are right in that it just so happens that the two classes with terrible DPS happen to be the classes pigeonholed to tank and healer respectively.
Well, necro seems to be able to tank well using meta weapons and traits for the most part. However, I’m not sure how much the “Rise!” nerf affected this.
“So you have ranger and mesmer suffer in all formats but raiding, and in raids they are pigeonholed and punished far more than similar utility classes like warrior and revenant who do so much more DPS while providing substantial utility.”
I agree 100% Zenith. That’s sadly the problem with the raids, way under-balanced and they make certain classes only good (barely) for only a few things. In trying to not have the “Holy trinity” they are crippling the whole raid experience in what you have to bring to a group.
What’s wrong with a tank, if needed, some heals and ANY DPS? Ah well, its what makes this game different I reckon.We already got a trinity. Chronos can tank, and druids are pigeonholed into healer roles.
The problem is not lack of roles, it’s that some classes utterly dominate those roles and push everybody else to the side.
It’s not just chronos that can tank. Anyone can tank, it’s simply that chronomancers have such low damage that you lose the least from sticking them in that role. It’s not any particular ability that makes chronomancers such popular tanks, it’s their inability to deal competitive damage.
Well, yeah, and in many encounters there is no strict tank so much as a trigger for who gets aggro.
But chronomancers are not just appealing for the tank job because of terrible DPS. Blurred Frenzy is a stupidly low cd evasion, and you’ve got 2 shield blocks on top of signet invulnerability.
More importantly, the chrono can use his meta weapons to effectively tank, whereas most other classes like say revenant would be resorting to the garbage staff or offhand shield, etc.
Nevertheless, you are right in that it just so happens that the two classes with terrible DPS happen to be the classes pigeonholed to tank and healer respectively.
Well, necro seems to be able to tank well using meta weapons and traits for the most part. However, I’m not sure how much the “Rise!” nerf affected this.
You never needed Rise in order to tank as necromancer. If you had to rely on that in order to tank properly, you’re bad at your job.