Guild Wars 2

I’m just as annoying by bugs and bot and balance issues in the game as the next guy is, but people on these forums are just a bunch of whiners. About 30 minutes ago there was a post about a new dungeons loot system. Almost every single response was “great, now we are forced to wear MF?”

I’m not trying to say that the new dungeon reward system is perfect, what I’m saying is that you are not being forced to wear magic find gear. MF has always been a sacrafice! And you aren’t supposed to be able to to do a dungeon easily and get all the loot you want every time!

The reason I’m posting is this not simply to feel high and mighty, it’s to ask thecommunity to stop complaining about a lack of perfection, its just like the story of the boy who cried wolf. I’d rather have a game that’s fun to play and maybe it takes a few extra dungeon runs for me than someone else to get that cool sword, but at least it was fun!

Again, I have no idea if this new loot system will work or not, I’m just asking people to tone down the complaining and hyperboles.

No one is forcing people to run MF, but most experienced dungeon delvers seem to agree that MF gear drags the total party speed down, aka if you bring MF gear to an explorable dungeon everything will go slower, aka everyone will experience a slower and a less smooth run than they could, aka you will get your chance to get rare loot higher at other people’s expensve.
That’s the core problem.

Now, i know that my guildies won’t run MF or at least will ask if it’s ok, and only in easy-faceroll dungeons which will take 2 minutes longer due to them bringing MF stuff. But now lots of people will get paranoid, and rightly so, about random puggies bringing MF stuff over anything else because it’s being promoted by the upcoming update. It’s another nail to the coffin of pugs – we’ll only see more people crying in the forums that they got kicked from a dungeon run because they were running MF gear and someone noticed their sigil of luck in the middle of the run, and some people will simply refuse to pug fearing running into ‘MF-wearers’.

It’s all fine to wear MF if everyone in the party accepts it, duh, first and foremost openly knows about it. It’s not fine to wear MF ‘silently’, as you’re doing so at others’ expense, greedily boosting only your own chance at rare stuff.

I agree that people wearing MF gear can cause an issue, my point was that no one is being forced to. I’m have like no money, so I only have one armor set. Its explorer’s with pirate runes obviously plenty of MF is in place of “better” stats. I’ve gone through dungeons without even going down. When my whole group dies I have to just run away and wait for them. Its all in the build. You need a good build more than you need 30 extra points of vitality or whatever.

An inspect option would be nice. I run full power toughness heal power on my ele to help with group heals and it sucks that any random pug we pick up could be running MF instead of something more beneficial. Leave the MF gear to consenting guild groups and farming overworld please.

People call us elitists if we put criteria into our LFG messages. When all the MF gear peeps come to my house, take care of my kids, do my laundry and go to work for me each morning they can decide what is and isnt within my rights when it comes to my free time. /nod

IMO putting MF gear into a game (dungeons specifically) and NOT adding the ability to inspect other players is wrong and unfair to those who genuinely want to be as helpful as possible to a group and who may have limited play time that they don’t want squandered unneccessarily.

It’s not about wearing MF yourself, it’s about gathering 4 other randoms for a dungeon, having them wear MF gear because they now want better drops, and then dealing with a bunch of crappy players constantly dieing in their power/prec/mf gear even more then currently happens in terrible PuGs.

Luckily that won’t affect me.

Hey Combat, maybe your whole group wouldnt have died in the first place if you had some heal power to help keep them up or maybe more dps to take the mobs out faster. lol the fact that the MF dude is the one who seems to be waiting on the fringes and running away when things go bad does not help to make your case. You and I both know we are talking about more than 30 vit too. I’ve experimented with reducing the amount of heal power I have to find the acceptable threshold for me and dropping the number makes a very clear difference.

Even if you’re never dying with MF gear, you’re dragging your party down in terms of speed as you could have been running a berserker set instead, dishing out more damage if you can manage a glassy build.

Instead, you bring a greedy stat which benefits only you while makes others suffer for your choices, as they get nothing but a longer run than they potentially could have.

I am constantly healing, it’s AH gaurdian build. I am healing and booning my team with every critial that lands (roughly 1/3 of attacks). Also, I’m running away AFTER things go bad, not during.

However, I agree some way to see if someone if running MF gear would be nice, unless there is some way to exploit that.

Also, you guys are right, I could wear “better” gear do more dps, but my point is that MF doesn’t make it so you can’t do well in a dungeon. Actually my original point was that people cry wolf over every little thing hat doesn’t allow them to get handed a free legendary tomorrow, but o well.

Find random groups wasn’t a safe bet before either, it always took me 2 or 3X as long with randoms as it did with my guild.

drkn.3429:

Even if you’re never dying with MF gear, you’re dragging your party down in terms of speed as you could have been running a berserker set instead, dishing out more damage if you can manage a glassy build.

Instead, you bring a greedy stat which benefits only you while makes others suffer for your choices, as they get nothing but a longer run than they potentially could have.

This as well. My warrior wears mostly berserkers and hardly dies, and I have a 104% crit damage (on top of 50% base) meaning I do 254% more damage @ 93% crit rate when I get 25 stacks of precision.

By introducing MF drops to dungeons, people will want to wear MF gear instead, meaning you now have 100% less crit damage and less crit chance since people will probably want to use Luck Stacks instead of Precision Stacks meaning I will also lose about 11% crit chance.

As someone who crits 93% of the time, this basically means a dps class like me who now switches to mf gear will kill ([.93(1.50) + .07] / [.82(2.54)+.18]) – 1 = 35.3% decrease in damage.

So you are now carrying someone who use to do good damage to kill things quicker in dungeons, now they do 35.3% less damage even if you don’t want to use it yourself.

If you don’t think that a 35.3% decrease in efficiency is a problem just because natural human greed and devs bringing in mf gear to dungeon loot calculations, then there is something wrong with you.

Also note, mf gear actually has lower power then berserker as well, since mf is the major trait on gear, while crit % dmg is the minor trait. So this 35.3% is pushed even higher which I’m not going to calculate as to the exact amount it further decreases your damage.

Stats never make or break a dungeon group, so wear it all you want as long as you know what you’re doing.

On the other hand, just ASK a person to show his gear. On the off chance he’s carrying two identical armor sets, then yeah, you’re out of luck.

Then don’t wear MF gear and don’t rely on randoms to carry you through a dungeon. Problem solved!

combat f i f chuck.9704:

Then don’t wear MF gear and don’t rely on randoms to carry you through a dungeon. Problem solved!

Apparently you don’t get it. It’s the other way around.

It’s not wearing MF gear and carrying randoms because they want to wear MF gear. Dungeons are a teamwork centric content. No one cares if people use mf farming Orr, it doesn’t affect you.

The minute you rely on 4 other people in a dungeon to complete it easily and efficiently it becomes an issue, because you have no control over what people wear, other then asking every person you invite to show their gear (which can easily be hidden with multiple sets) and kicking them if they wear mf gear, which obviously becomes tedious if you have to do that every single day while you set up dungeon groups. You could eventually create a dedicated dungeon group and a core Dungeon guild of a few elite players like me, where we all use teamspeak, all have full exotics, and all know that we will all either wear mf gear or none of us will, but you can’t expect every random pub and casual to do that.

What this causes, is eventually pubs stop being interested in dungeons because they are sick of carrying randoms and bad players who are now even worse because they are wearing gear which is 35% less efficient then before. They either stop dungeons altogether, or join guilds with people they know aren’t terrible. This makes it harder for anyone who is not in a dedicated dungeon group or good elite guild to run dungeons, which also makes it harder for new players who join the game to find dungeon groups.

I personally don’t care, I haven’t run a full PuG dungeon in 2 months. I have a core group I run dungeons with every night and a backup guild of ~20 people who have had to prove they were good in dungeons before being invited to enjoy dungeons with. I’m glad you’re not a game designer though if you think an mf mechanic in dungeons isn’t bad for the general population and health of dungeons.

opal orbs and onom bars have gone up….. Wish i had the money to buy some :/

Strifey.7215:

Dungeons are a teamwork centric content.

That’s exactly why I don’t mind people wearing MF if they don’t suck.

I know full well the majority of this game is profiting, so I won’t begrudge someone for wanting to kill two birds with one stone. Same as I wouldn’t kick a person because he’s not level 80 in a non-level 80 dungeon.

People helping people.

UnrepentantProcrastinator.7420:

Strifey.7215:

Dungeons are a teamwork centric content.

That’s exactly why I don’t mind people wearing MF if they don’t suck.

I know full well the majority of this game is profiting, so I won’t begrudge someone for wanting to kill two birds with one stone. Same as I wouldn’t kick a person because he’s not level 80 in a non-level 80 dungeon.

People helping people.

MF is a self-centric stat, dungeons are teamwork-centric.

Combat stats help the entire party, they make dungeons faster and easier. When 2 people where MF gear, and 3 people where combat gear, 2 people are being selfish, 3 people are helping the group.

If you seriously think only good players are going to where MF gear and not the already terrible players, you need a reality check. It’s probably the good players who won’t be the ones wearing MF gear because they value quick and efficient dungeon runs.

If you don’t care that you are carrying some random with 40% less combat stats then you are better then most people, because I’m sure most people care.

Strifey,

Did you read the OP? I specifically said that I’m not defending this loot system. My original intent with this topic was a general request that people stop crying wolf over every little thing that isn’t exactly what they want. Of course it would be faster to have excellent players with just the right gear to run dungeons with, but I’ve had pugs before that literally could not make it through a dungeon. If there’s a player who chooses to wear MF in a dungeon because they care about nothing besides their loot, you probably wouldn’t want to run with them even if they had good armor, because they are selfish and will play that way.

While having a system that relies on MF probably has it’s flaws, I am arguing that it will not destroy dungeon running any more than crappy player do already. Which is what everyone seems to be yelling, which is what my OP is about.

I’d still rather have a good Magic Find player than a fully exotic idiot that dies to ranged attacks because he runs in front of guardian’s reflective wall, or out of guardian’s deflection bubble, which seems to be the norm in my dungeon groups.

Find it funny that a skilled player “Brings the dungeon” down because magic find, but idiots that die enough to break their armor don’t. Or people that don’t have full exotics, or people that have kitteny builds, or people that don’t know how to used ranged against a boss that kitten in melee.

But hey, you know. Those magic find people.

Strifey.7215:

If you don’t care that you are carrying some random with 40% less combat stats then you are better then most people, because I’m sure most people care.

I don’t think I am better than most people, because no one I’ve ever played with has had a problem with MF.

I have 1 Arah armor set, 1 CoE armor + weapon set, 1 AC Armor + weapon set, and half way through my CoF set. The majority of these were full pugs, or a handful of Guildies and some pugs. Sigil of Luck on the party UI.

And you’re right, dungeons are teamwork centric. You do them for profit, and MF helps with that.

Death to MF wearers!