Guild Wars 2

Hey guys,

Since the haste nerf I’ve been thinking…..is there any use for a mesmer in speed runs? Except of course for Arah and the odd invis and pulling of mobs for a better skip.

CoE? Been using 4 warriors and 1 guardian, and have noticed a definite decrease in run time. Ok for sure, some of the bosses are slower, but when TW is not up….i.e most of the time….it is faster with 4 warriors. Everything in CoE can be balled wth corners or the guardians gs.

I havn’t tested everything……..but off the top of my head the only dungeon i know you couldnt speed run without a mes is Arah.

Lemme know what you guys think?

No more holy trinity? Just a duo?

Well, the most notorious dungeon, CoF p1, really benefits from mesmer’s portal so the scrubby warriors dont have to put any effort in crossing the boulders. Add feedback and Time Warp, and you got yourself a dungeon running staple.
That said, for CoE specifically I think guardian is indeed better than mesmer.

My guild runs 4 war and 1 mes or 3 war, 1 necro and 1 mes in coe. Seems faster than taking a guard. Boon stripping is good enough on the golem. The 3 war, 1 necro, 1 mes runs we did a few days ago were the fastest runs weve ever done, or atleast they felt the fastest. Although we havent tried with a beserker guard yet, havent got the gear yet as i mostly use mine for fractals.

Mesmers are indeed useful in speed runs. Portal, Mass Invisibility, and Veil are amazing for avoiding mobs you don’t want/need to fight to continue on, Feedback is a good way to shut down long-range projectiles, and Time Warp is still useful for dealing with bosses. There’s still a lot a mesmer can be used for in speed runs.

mesmer is needed for specific reasons:

pull into corners, feedback, signet of inspiration, portal

Also remember to use phantasm build and not shatter…

3 war 1 guard 1 mes. p3 destroyer dies even before shield flickers

Bread.7516:

3 war 1 guard 1 mes. p3 destroyer dies even before shield flickers

Is that with timewarp? Cause my group never has timewarp up in time for that fight so I save it for final alpha.

Bread.7516:

3 war 1 guard 1 mes. p3 destroyer dies even before shield flickers

Do you even need the guardian for CoE? I feel like that could be speedrun just like CoF with 4W/1M..

LF1Mesmer COF P1 speedfarm GEARCHECK!!! NO NOOBZ GOD kitten IT!!!!

… this is the sad use of the mesmer.

Broadicea.8294:

Bread.7516:

3 war 1 guard 1 mes. p3 destroyer dies even before shield flickers

Do you even need the guardian for CoE? I feel like that could be speedrun just like CoF with 4W/1M..

It can be done, but the golem gets quite high protection uptime on that setup. Which slows it down a bit. Which is why my group still takes a guardian or we take a necro to compliment the mesmer boon stripping.

spoj.9672:

Broadicea.8294:

Bread.7516:

3 war 1 guard 1 mes. p3 destroyer dies even before shield flickers

Do you even need the guardian for CoE? I feel like that could be speedrun just like CoF with 4W/1M..

It can be done, but the golem gets quite high protection uptime on that setup. Which slows it down a bit. Which is why my group still takes a guardian or we take a necro to compliment the mesmer boon stripping.

Yeah, but you can fight the boss without the turrets being activated. I guess if you were deadset on doing it “legit” the projectile block from SOTA is a good enough reason to bring a guard.

Didnt know you could exploit it. But yeah dont think we would ever try to cheat it, not the sort of players to actively try and exploit paths.

That’s one of those places where I’d definitely say it’s unintended and thus wouldn’t crycry if the devs closed the loophole, but I wouldn’t call it an exploit. The 3-in-1 run, now that was an exploit, but utilizing a simple and otherwise encouraged utility skill combination to hop over where the devs placed the scripted trigger event, ehhhhh not really feelin labeling that as a bannable offense.

JubeiTM.5763:

LF1Mesmer COF P1 speedfarm GEARCHECK!!! NO NOOBZ GOD kitten IT!!!!

… this is the sad use of the mesmer.

well phantasm mesmer is really good in fotms ._.

Not guardian or warrior good but the best of non OP professions

spoj.9672:

Broadicea.8294:

Bread.7516:

3 war 1 guard 1 mes. p3 destroyer dies even before shield flickers

Do you even need the guardian for CoE? I feel like that could be speedrun just like CoF with 4W/1M..

It can be done, but the golem gets quite high protection uptime on that setup. Which slows it down a bit. Which is why my group still takes a guardian or we take a necro to compliment the mesmer boon stripping.

a mesmer can manage all the boon stripping by themself

LordByron.8369:

JubeiTM.5763:

LF1Mesmer COF P1 speedfarm GEARCHECK!!! NO NOOBZ GOD kitten IT!!!!

… this is the sad use of the mesmer.

well phantasm mesmer is really good in fotms ._.

Not guardian or warrior good but the best of non OP professions

Reality check. Mesmer is an OP profession with game-breaking mechanics, please read the rest of this thread for evidence.

spoj.9672:

Broadicea.8294:

Bread.7516:

3 war 1 guard 1 mes. p3 destroyer dies even before shield flickers

Do you even need the guardian for CoE? I feel like that could be speedrun just like CoF with 4W/1M..

It can be done, but the golem gets quite high protection uptime on that setup. Which slows it down a bit. Which is why my group still takes a guardian or we take a necro to compliment the mesmer boon stripping.

Have your mesmer run sword main hand. Two or three clones and maybe a phantasmal disenchanter, staggered to have different boon strip times, is plenty to keep the golem’s buffs off.

Even with the Quickness nerf, Time Warp is the highest DPS boosting Elite in the game. And it’s party wide. Definitely still worth bringing Mesmers for their other utilities as well. Specifically, being able to pull groups of mobs all onto one point to be AoE’d down, Portals, and Feedback. They’re still great in any party.

Iures.2894:

spoj.9672:

Broadicea.8294:

Bread.7516:

3 war 1 guard 1 mes. p3 destroyer dies even before shield flickers

Do you even need the guardian for CoE? I feel like that could be speedrun just like CoF with 4W/1M..

It can be done, but the golem gets quite high protection uptime on that setup. Which slows it down a bit. Which is why my group still takes a guardian or we take a necro to compliment the mesmer boon stripping.

Have your mesmer run sword main hand. Two or three clones and maybe a phantasmal disenchanter, staggered to have different boon strip times, is plenty to keep the golem’s buffs off.

Yeah i have and its never full boon down time. The sword auto attack is unreliable, null field and phantasmal disenchanter work really well but they dont provide perma boon stripping due to cooldowns. But then i never changed my trait in domination to remove boons on shatter. So Im probably wrong, only thought about that trait recently when i was looking at a pvp shatter build.

People who cite portal and time warp as being the best things Mesmer does must be playing with bad mesmers. Temporal curtain is potentially the most powerful skill in the game.

i dont see the point of mesmer have no use when people talk about COE.
Mesmer can stack alpha just as good as any class with main sword.
Time wrap still godly for stacking kill alphas.
As for Robot, summon 3 phantasma disenchant then the robot’s boons as good as permanently gone . just make sure that u summon disenchant at different time so their attack sync.
they can portal people up or down when fighting destroyer.
Temporal curtain can pull alphas into corner for stacking,

there are so many things a mesmer can do in COE. as for other dungeon like COF they even have more role.

spoj.9672:

Iures.2894:

spoj.9672:

Broadicea.8294:

Bread.7516:

3 war 1 guard 1 mes. p3 destroyer dies even before shield flickers

Do you even need the guardian for CoE? I feel like that could be speedrun just like CoF with 4W/1M..

It can be done, but the golem gets quite high protection uptime on that setup. Which slows it down a bit. Which is why my group still takes a guardian or we take a necro to compliment the mesmer boon stripping.

Have your mesmer run sword main hand. Two or three clones and maybe a phantasmal disenchanter, staggered to have different boon strip times, is plenty to keep the golem’s buffs off.

Yeah i have and its never full boon down time. The sword auto attack is unreliable, null field and phantasmal disenchanter work really well but they dont provide perma boon stripping due to cooldowns. But then i never changed my trait in domination to remove boons on shatter. So Im probably wrong, only thought about that trait recently when i was looking at a pvp shatter build.

Hmm. . . when I fight him his boons usually stay up a split second at most, except when illusions start dying. Not sure what we’re doing differently. . .

Iures.2894:

spoj.9672:

Iures.2894:

spoj.9672:

Broadicea.8294:

Bread.7516:

3 war 1 guard 1 mes. p3 destroyer dies even before shield flickers

Do you even need the guardian for CoE? I feel like that could be speedrun just like CoF with 4W/1M..

It can be done, but the golem gets quite high protection uptime on that setup. Which slows it down a bit. Which is why my group still takes a guardian or we take a necro to compliment the mesmer boon stripping.

Have your mesmer run sword main hand. Two or three clones and maybe a phantasmal disenchanter, staggered to have different boon strip times, is plenty to keep the golem’s buffs off.

Yeah i have and its never full boon down time. The sword auto attack is unreliable, null field and phantasmal disenchanter work really well but they dont provide perma boon stripping due to cooldowns. But then i never changed my trait in domination to remove boons on shatter. So Im probably wrong, only thought about that trait recently when i was looking at a pvp shatter build.

Hmm. . . when I fight him his boons usually stay up a split second at most, except when illusions start dying. Not sure what we’re doing differently. . .

I always have a problem of illusions dieing so i tend to shatter quite regularly. When i try and use sword to remove boons it ends up removing the regen then the retal then the protection. Means i have to get through 3 auto attack chains unless i have a null field or disenchanter. But after reading what someone said about leaving disenchanters up, that might be my problem. I had no idea they keep removing boons because after they first do it the boons come back and it takes an age for them to do it again, so ive just been shattering. Ah well you learn something new everyday.

spoj.9672:

Iures.2894:

spoj.9672:

Iures.2894:

spoj.9672:

Broadicea.8294:

Bread.7516:

3 war 1 guard 1 mes. p3 destroyer dies even before shield flickers

Do you even need the guardian for CoE? I feel like that could be speedrun just like CoF with 4W/1M..

It can be done, but the golem gets quite high protection uptime on that setup. Which slows it down a bit. Which is why my group still takes a guardian or we take a necro to compliment the mesmer boon stripping.

Have your mesmer run sword main hand. Two or three clones and maybe a phantasmal disenchanter, staggered to have different boon strip times, is plenty to keep the golem’s buffs off.

Yeah i have and its never full boon down time. The sword auto attack is unreliable, null field and phantasmal disenchanter work really well but they dont provide perma boon stripping due to cooldowns. But then i never changed my trait in domination to remove boons on shatter. So Im probably wrong, only thought about that trait recently when i was looking at a pvp shatter build.

Hmm. . . when I fight him his boons usually stay up a split second at most, except when illusions start dying. Not sure what we’re doing differently. . .

I always have a problem of illusions dieing so i tend to shatter quite regularly. When i try and use sword to remove boons it ends up removing the regen then the retal then the protection. Means i have to get through 3 auto attack chains unless i have a null field or disenchanter. But after reading what someone said about leaving disenchanters up, that might be my problem. I had no idea they keep removing boons because after they first do it the boons come back and it takes an age for them to do it again, so ive just been shattering. Ah well you learn something new everyday.

Yeah, shattering would be the cause of the difference. Pull up a disenchanter, a couple of sword clones, and auto attack your way to victory, replacing anything that dies. As long as your illusions stay behind the boss, they should almost never get hit. Even without null field, buffs on the boss tend to stay up split-seconds at a time.

2 wars / guardian /mesmer / X is still the best party for the 95% of the PvE.

Iures.2894:

spoj.9672:

Iures.2894:

spoj.9672:

Iures.2894:

spoj.9672:

Broadicea.8294:

Bread.7516:

3 war 1 guard 1 mes. p3 destroyer dies even before shield flickers

Do you even need the guardian for CoE? I feel like that could be speedrun just like CoF with 4W/1M..

It can be done, but the golem gets quite high protection uptime on that setup. Which slows it down a bit. Which is why my group still takes a guardian or we take a necro to compliment the mesmer boon stripping.

Have your mesmer run sword main hand. Two or three clones and maybe a phantasmal disenchanter, staggered to have different boon strip times, is plenty to keep the golem’s buffs off.

Yeah i have and its never full boon down time. The sword auto attack is unreliable, null field and phantasmal disenchanter work really well but they dont provide perma boon stripping due to cooldowns. But then i never changed my trait in domination to remove boons on shatter. So Im probably wrong, only thought about that trait recently when i was looking at a pvp shatter build.

Hmm. . . when I fight him his boons usually stay up a split second at most, except when illusions start dying. Not sure what we’re doing differently. . .

I always have a problem of illusions dieing so i tend to shatter quite regularly. When i try and use sword to remove boons it ends up removing the regen then the retal then the protection. Means i have to get through 3 auto attack chains unless i have a null field or disenchanter. But after reading what someone said about leaving disenchanters up, that might be my problem. I had no idea they keep removing boons because after they first do it the boons come back and it takes an age for them to do it again, so ive just been shattering. Ah well you learn something new everyday.

Yeah, shattering would be the cause of the difference. Pull up a disenchanter, a couple of sword clones, and auto attack your way to victory, replacing anything that dies. As long as your illusions stay behind the boss, they should almost never get hit. Even without null field, buffs on the boss tend to stay up split-seconds at a time.

Yep tried it today, worked a treat. Another reason why mesmers are op. I honestly think necro’s should be the best at boon removal. But no. Everything any class can do, mesmers can do better.

About coe golem, never had issues at suppressing his boons for the whole fight.

Get out 3 sword clones
Do not pop any phantasm, except Disenchanter
Use null field/feedback when golem wipes your illusions
Autoattack all the way
(added: swap out trait to strip boons on shatter)

Your personal DPS will be bad – even compared to the average mesmer one – but stripping off protection (most important) retal (so your wars don’t melt) and regen (cause we can) is much more valuable than another war zerking around, imo.

About the OP topic:
imo the issue in war teams is that warriors, to be the top dps class (which is intended) trade off both survivability (outside 2 dodges+whirlind and shake it off) and party utlity (aside banners and stacking FGJ). Which is why to tackle some more serious stuff, 1 Mes or 1 Guard or both are added.
Guard is able to be backbone of the party, dishing out boons stripping conditions keeping up protection (hammer) and help in projectile protection, while in full zerk/knight gear for decent dmg.
Mes pulls stealth strip boons can spike up vuln stacks reflect projectiles port aoe quickness stun protect multiply boons push and much more. While still in zerk gear.

So, depends what are you doing.
But most of the times imo the addedd utility of a mes (or party wide support while decent dps of guard) are better than straigh in your face top notch dps of another war.

mm never used Sw/Sw…..seems its good for cof1 last boss also

You mean sword phantasm? or clones?

For the issue part:
i do not agree
The issue is that mob/boss damage is OP they kill fast any profession disregarding armor and stuff.
While being immune to CC

WHen you remove armor/CC from the game all that remains is most DPS and the more dps the faster you get rid of threats, the less Attacks they can use.

That is how most dungeons are played
Just pop up a short invul skill and get rid of most threats….
Cof1 with better AI and without portal part would be 5 warriors.
They don t need defence….they just can survive using downed 3 if they even get hit.

LordByron.8369:

mm never used Sw/Sw…..seems its good for cof1 last boss also

You mean sword phantasm? or clones?

I mean pop up clones with iLeap, they use your autoattack chain which removes a boon every 3 hit.
You autattacking + 2/3 clones removing a boon every 3 hit + eventual Disenchanter and Null Field…well.

Yeah thats what i do now. I save my null field to use inside timewarp. But feedback doesnt work btw. See so many mesmers take feedback instead of null field for the fight and it has no effect.

spoj.9672:

Yeah thats what i do now. I save my null field to use inside timewarp. But feedback doesnt work btw. See so many mesmers take feedback instead of null field for the fight and it has no effect.

Yeah, I used to try feedback until I kept seeing that it did nothing. Inspired me to finally bring disenchanter, though. . .

Broadicea.8294:

Bread.7516:

3 war 1 guard 1 mes. p3 destroyer dies even before shield flickers

Do you even need the guardian for CoE? I feel like that could be speedrun just like CoF with 4W/1M..

Guardian w/hammer is a nice failsafe in PUGs, the constant -33% damage makes hugging alpha easy to the point that I just set the auto attack going then go on to the TP and sell stuff.

colesy.8490:

Broadicea.8294:

Bread.7516:

3 war 1 guard 1 mes. p3 destroyer dies even before shield flickers

Do you even need the guardian for CoE? I feel like that could be speedrun just like CoF with 4W/1M..

Guardian w/hammer is a nice failsafe in PUGs, the constant -33% damage makes hugging alpha easy to the point that I just set the auto attack going then go on to the TP and sell stuff.

I know guardians can carry, which is why I almost exclusively play my guardian on PUGs. I was talking about speedruns through.

I would say the only reason to take mes for CoE specifically is because of the couple of glitches they can provide which can speed things up, but yea 1 zerk guardian + 4 warriors is probably faster besides that.

Broadicea.8294:

Bread.7516:

3 war 1 guard 1 mes. p3 destroyer dies even before shield flickers

Do you even need the guardian for CoE? I feel like that could be speedrun just like CoF with 4W/1M..

sanctuary knocks down destroyer for 5 seconds-ish. else just use aegis. less time dodging means you can do your DPS combo setup seamlessly and consistently. So you don’t have to cancel that final hit of 100b ever. 2 Aegis should be enough to down him.

also unique guardian boons (SYG/HTL/symbols/etc…) + signet of inspiration coupled with warrior trait empowered. that’s 2% additional damage PER unique boon.
If we run 4war 1mes (which we also do) I take off empowered trait and redirect it to 30/25/0/0/15.

you can also do 4war 1mes or whatever combination you feel like. we run this mainly due to it being consistent and comfortable, we run CoE for long hours so comfort is actually needed here.

the bare minimum we have tried for 1shot destroyer is 3war 1 mes. the other guy went away for a while lol.

edit: derpy information on save yourselves

Bread.7516:

Broadicea.8294:

Bread.7516:

3 war 1 guard 1 mes. p3 destroyer dies even before shield flickers

Do you even need the guardian for CoE? I feel like that could be speedrun just like CoF with 4W/1M..

sanctuary knocks down destroyer for 5 seconds-ish. else just use aegis. less time dodging means you can do your 100b combo setup seamlessly and consistently.

also save yourselves + signet of inspiration coupled with warrior trait empower. that’s 2% additional damage PER unique boon.

you can also do 4war 1mes or whatever combination you feel like. we run this mainly due to it being consistent and comfortable, we run CoE for long hours so comfort is actually needed here.

the bare minimum we have tried for 1shot destroyer is 3war 1 mes. the other guy went akitten lol.

Yeh u can do both, I usually run 3 zerk war, 1 zerk mes, 1 zerk guard and we still get destroyer down in one go. Also guard is nice for WoR +aoe pull on eles at the start/ SYG wolves and all that jazz. It’s not needed but it’s comfy. To save Mesmer some hassle can also run hammer/GS and use banish on alpha to get him in corner at the start, although I prefer he does it and I run GS/staff for might buff. When doing the multi runs it’s just nice to have, especially when someone gets bugged in the crystal, u can aegis em. Oh and Line of warding the zerker risen guys +aoe pull aegis chain to smooth out that part. Didn’t know about the sanctuary trick on destroyer, I was just aegis chaining + SYG the tooths. :o

Yeah the other day one of our warriors was lagging so wiped on skipping the destroyer crab. We decided to start the destroyer while he was running it again. Killed it in 1 go with 3 war 1 mes.

You NEED a mesmer if you want the fastest speed runs for Twilight Arbor.

Bread.7516:

also save yourselves + signet of inspiration coupled with warrior trait empowered. that’s 2% additional damage PER unique boon.

If only save yourselves applied all those boons to the mesmer and not just yourself.

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

Bread.7516:

also save yourselves + signet of inspiration coupled with warrior trait empowered. that’s 2% additional damage PER unique boon.

If only save yourselves applied all those boons to the mesmer and not just yourself.

my bad, corrected