Guild Wars 2

Ok, as topic suggests is there eventually going to be a time in the future where we switch to a universal token system?

I have a small guild and all of us want items from different instances. Since we only get a few hours here and there to play we end up pugging our perspective dungeons.

We would very much like to play together, a universal token system would make that possible. Plus I would like to see other dungeons.

A universal token system would only work if every single dungeon instance was equal in difficulty and length. Unfortunately that is not the case.

For this to be done they would probably have to add a lockout timer (Forces players to swap entire dungeons after a run) + Dungeon specific daily like WoW (Forces players to at least attempt or try every dungeon as it cycles through the list) to compensate for people running quick easy dungeons and getting harder dungeon gear.

Sera.6539:

A universal token system would only work if every single dungeon instance was equal in difficulty and length. Unfortunately that is not the case.

+1

There are different tokens cause not all dungeons are equal. Arah is way more difficult than FC and it even takes longer.

Yes, i know there are always people who find the fastest way around everything…what about this then?

Make a Daily dungeon (optional) you can do all 3 paths and have a choice of that dungeons tokens, or “general” tokens and trade them in at your vendor of choice for the tokens you want

1.) Its random
2.)optional, no bonuses so people don’t feel like they HAVE to do their daily.
3.) It changes things up a bit, so you can move around and see some new things.

If they add more skins then sure, otherwise cram it I’ve no interest in any dungeon leave it as it is for all i care.

Just out of curiosity did the gw1 armour designer move on/get sacked or other means? because gw2 armours are some of the worst I’ve seen in any mmo and believe me iv’e played almost all and ive seen better looking STARTER armour in obscure f2p korean mmo’s that looks better than gw2 dungeon skins, I’m not kidding!

in particular medium armours to many ugly coats

One token to rule them all, Then many paths to find them,
One route to pug for all and in the blandness grind them

Robert Hrouda.1327:

One token to rule them all.
Any character to find them.
One vendor to bring them all,
And in the forge bind them.

The main problem we see with a universal token system, is that players will find the easiest dungeons they can do within the DR system’s influence range, and just do them over and over.
It would be like if people could use all their CoF tokens from the speed/exploit clears, and buy up Arah Dragon armor. Were that the case, the armor itself would have no real value behind it. When you look at a player and you see a full suit of dragon armor, you know that they did a certain thing to get that armor. With a universal token system, you lose that sense of knowledge of what another player has gone through to get what they have.

Any plans for more medium skins in future? those big coats are vile

Robert Hrouda.1327:

One token to rule them all.
Any character to find them.
One vendor to bring them all,
And in the forge bind them.

The main problem we see with a universal token system, is that players will find the easiest dungeons they can do within the DR system’s influence range, and just do them over and over.
It would be like if people could use all their CoF tokens from the speed/exploit clears, and buy up Arah Dragon armor. Were that the case, the armor itself would have no real value behind it. When you look at a player and you see a full suit of dragon armor, you know that they did a certain thing to get that armor. With a universal token system, you lose that sense of knowledge of what another player has gone through to get what they have.

Honestly, I don’t know why it’s so hard for people to understand that.

Cash shop should put some gw1 armours up for sale, 100% better than any of the dungeon armours ive seen especially in the medium variety. If i want a long ugly coat i’ll watch a few episodes of the Equalizer

Robert Hrouda.1327:

omino.4302:

Any plans for more medium skins in future? those big coats are vile

I can’t speak for art, but if you wanna see an epic sweet big coat for LIGHT armor, the GW1 HoM light armor reward is pretty big and coat-y.

:P i’ll have a look on my ele thx

Robert Hrouda.1327:

One token to rule them all.
Any character to find them.
One vendor to bring them all,
And in the forge bind them.

The main problem we see with a universal token system, is that players will find the easiest dungeons they can do within the DR system’s influence range, and just do them over and over.
It would be like if people could use all their CoF tokens from the speed/exploit clears, and buy up Arah Dragon armor. Were that the case, the armor itself would have no real value behind it. When you look at a player and you see a full suit of dragon armor, you know that they did a certain thing to get that armor. With a universal token system, you lose that sense of knowledge of what another player has gone through to get what they have.

If this is the case , why not add a token wallet type thing so we don’t have dozens of tokens taking up valuable bank and bag space? This is the similar kinda of issue for the wvw siege weps taking up way too much space and character specific and not account bound

The main problem we see with a universal token system, is that players will find the easiest dungeons they can do within the DR system’s influence range, and just do them over and over.

I’m going to make a suggestion that would be ridiculous if you guys weren’t already halfway there. Have a player-based token exchange system. Do it like the gold/gems exchange mechanism, but for dungeon tokens. Make it so that if a player has a bunch of tokens from dungeon X, and they need a bunch of tokens from dungeon Y, they can trade them via the BLTC. But since, as you point out, people might find ways to grind some dungeons easier than others, there would be a commodity exchange rate, such that the tokens that are in easy supply would swamp the exchange, and tokens that nobody went for would be more rare, and therefore the exchange rate would skew towards those.

So that way, if Dungeon X was ground like mad and people were dumping thousands of those tokens onto the market, while Dungeon Y was very hard and almost nobody was offering tokens, then you might need to chip in dozens of X tokens to get any Y tokens.

Not only would this give player a lot more flexibility and allow them to offload tokens that they don’t need, but it would also give you good feedback as to which dungeons are easiest to grind, and which tokens are less desirable to the community.

I’d have to say Medium armor in this game is one of the ugliest out there. Heavy and Light armor get some really sweet sets, while Medium armor just looks so hideous.. Prime example would be Arah set..

I agree that it would be great to have a universal token system. I just find it completely daunting that I will need to do the same difficult, frustrating, unrewarding dungeon around 30 times to get a complete set of gear. And then again if I want to do it for another character. It’s pretty backward mechanic, especially for a game that is so forward thinking in every other way!

You can introduce diminishing returns if you complete the same dungeon and path in the same day.

OR what about a universal token exchange. Exchange 2 dungeon specific tokens for 1 universal token.

I just don’t like the idea of doing the same thing over and over again. I want to mix it up and experience any dungeon I want. Just like how I can experience everything else in this game without restraint.

It feels so backwards to have this current system.

kaotiktheory.8942:

I just don’t like the idea of doing the same thing over and over again. I want to mix it up and experience any dungeon I want. Just like how I can experience everything else in this game without restraint.

It feels so backwards to have this current system.

but then other people could get nice armor before you, we can’t have that now can we? Because some guy running around in an arah set before me totally ruins my day, how will I ever enjoy GW2 knowing that some person I don’t even know has an armor set that doesn’t affect me one bit. /sarcasm

Jedson.2715:

Robert Hrouda.1327:

One token to rule them all.
Any character to find them.
One vendor to bring them all,
And in the forge bind them.

The main problem we see with a universal token system, is that players will find the easiest dungeons they can do within the DR system’s influence range, and just do them over and over.
It would be like if people could use all their CoF tokens from the speed/exploit clears, and buy up Arah Dragon armor. Were that the case, the armor itself would have no real value behind it. When you look at a player and you see a full suit of dragon armor, you know that they did a certain thing to get that armor. With a universal token system, you lose that sense of knowledge of what another player has gone through to get what they have.

If this is the case , why not add a token wallet type thing so we don’t have dozens of tokens taking up valuable bank and bag space? This is the similar kinda of issue for the wvw siege weps taking up way too much space and character specific and not account bound

Your character can have I believe 100 slots in their bags, 120 if you pay for the extra bag slot. And with the multiple guild system you can easily have your own personal bank guild as well. How many things do you carry around anyway? I usually have like 3 consumables, at least 2 salvage kits, one or two extra weapon sets(so up to 4 slots), 9 gathering tools. And someday plan on having at least 1 extra armor set in my bag at all times. So that’s 24 slots that are almost always filled. Leaving me with 76 slots for all other things. That seems like a lot to me. And with the bank slots, since there is a collectibles tab, you don’t really need that much either.

Robert Hrouda.1327:

The main problem we see with a universal token system, is that players will find the easiest dungeons they can do within the DR system’s influence range, and just do them over and over.
It would be like if people could use all their CoF tokens from the speed/exploit clears, and buy up Arah Dragon armor. Were that the case, the armor itself would have no real value behind it.

I was quite disappointed to see this kind of answer Robert, as that is always the same major argument against a unified dungeon currency system. Because as it stands that is already happening look at all the people wearing CoF armor now. And plenty of other paths have the same problem with this already as well.

Robert Hrouda.1327:

When you look at a player and you see a full suit of dragon armor, you know that they did a certain thing to get that armor. With a universal token system, you lose that sense of knowledge of what another player has gone through to get what they have.

So with the implementation of a unified dungeon currency system we lose the sense of what a player has gone through? Which is what? Grinding? Exploiting? Speed Clearing?
I believe that a unified currency would be a great addition to the game.

My opinion on this topic is that a unified account bound dungeon currency system would work to keep high end content alive and fresher overall until new content becomes available. But in order for this unified token system to work one thing is critical: BALANCE BALANCE BALANCE.

All dungeon content must be re-evaluated, re-tested and balanced out properly to offer a great and exciting challenge to premades and pugs alike! This meaning that dungeons should be difficult but not to the point of impossibility yet not easy enough to speed clear it or solo it. It also means that all the known bugs and exploits are ironed out thoroughly. And even if people manage to speed clear it keep the anti-speed clearing tech in place to deter this style of play but allow them to do so if they wished but with diminshed rewards as a consequence.

And another thing to aid a unified dungeon currency system would be having dungeon vendor restrictions. That meaning that the dungeon vendor will only allow you to purchase his/her wares only once you have completed all paths of a dungeon including the story path. Once you have met that requirement the vendor will freely sell you there wares. Another thing is to ensure that the dungeon currency is only granted at the end of a dungeon run which was just implemented in game for the current token system. Also add this dungeon currency to rare random loot drops on certain mobs as well something Anet is planning to do with the current token system.

This unified dungeon currency system would also allow players who are leveling with their friends who are newer to high level content in Guild Wars 2. It would allow the older player to experience said content and still be rewarded with out it feeling like it was a chore to grind more tokens for a character that has all that dungeons gear already

And with this unified dungeon currency system and the current reward system working hand in hand this would in my opinion effectively eliminate the tiresome grind of one dungeon and one easy path only. This would encourage players to seek out different dungeons to maximize their reward gain and it would allow all the dungeons to thrive healthily.
Also this currency system would function just like other in-game currency in that it would not take up bank slots or require its own collection tab space where only a limited amount could be stored. It would just appear on the bottom of your item window just like the other currencies.

So all in all with a unified dungeon currency system you’ve accomplished:

-Dungeons that offer a fun challenge for either pre-mades and pugs.
-Giving players the option to run one single dungeon or play different dungeons.
-Having all the dungeons ran at least once by many of the player base keeping them alive and fresh longer.
-Making the grind seem less like a grind and more like fun.
-Allowing everybody to participate in the dungeon run and get rewarded equally.
-Freed up more space in players bags/boxs and bank account.
-No need for dungeon lockouts or cooldowns.

Robert Hrouda.1327:

One token to rule them all.
Any character to find them.
One vendor to bring them all,
And in the forge bind them.

The main problem we see with a universal token system, is that players will find the easiest dungeons they can do within the DR system’s influence range, and just do them over and over.
It would be like if people could use all their CoF tokens from the speed/exploit clears, and buy up Arah Dragon armor. Were that the case, the armor itself would have no real value behind it. When you look at a player and you see a full suit of dragon armor, you know that they did a certain thing to get that armor. With a universal token system, you lose that sense of knowledge of what another player has gone through to get what they have.

Point taken, but still; there has to be a better way than to just say “go grind dungeon X until you’ve accumulated enough tokens”. Even with the different dungeon paths, it still restricts a player to only certain content to accomplish their goal.

What would be so wrong w/ consolidating on using karma as the currency of choice and only making the certain dungeon vendors available upon completion of some pre-requisite (like completing all paths of said dungeon maybe?).

+1 for unified/global dungeon currency, and/or the ability to exchange dungeon specific tokens for global tokens!

Robert Hrouda.1327:

One token to rule them all.
Any character to find them.
One vendor to bring them all,
And in the forge bind them.

The main problem we see with a universal token system, is that players will find the easiest dungeons they can do within the DR system’s influence range, and just do them over and over.
It would be like if people could use all their CoF tokens from the speed/exploit clears, and buy up Arah Dragon armor. Were that the case, the armor itself would have no real value behind it. When you look at a player and you see a full suit of dragon armor, you know that they did a certain thing to get that armor. With a universal token system, you lose that sense of knowledge of what another player has gone through to get what they have.

I believe the OP was about mixing up the dungeons so that they were kept fresh and not forcing people to play/exploit the same dungeon to get that particular gear. I don’t want to have to do the same dungeon 30 times to get that gear. It would drive me mad, as the dungeons are frustrating and long.

To remove farming the easy/exploitable dungeons, you could easily have diminishing returns on ones you constantly repeat that day/week. At the moment Karma is gained through a variety different ways and used to buy a variety of different things so you can do a little wvw or dynamic events depending on your mood/time of day. It keeps things fresh.

But forcing players to do the one same thing constantly for dungeon armor is just demoralizing, and feels out of place in a game that normally promotes making your own ‘story’ (and not the story of repeating 30+ of the same dungeon – we get it… we could possibly recite the story at that point!)

Staring at that armor and realizing I have to do the same dungeon 30 times makes me NOT want to do it, it feels like work, not fun! And that’s essentially cutting off 1/3 of the content of an MMO.

Robert I have 2 suggestions.

How about giving us a token exchange system where based on difficulty you can exchange 1 dungeon token for another dungeon token. The rate is based on difficulty of course.

Second suggestion is give us a dungeon box or something, those stacks hurt my inventory space and bank space.

It won’t ever be the case that all dungeons are balanced equally. I believe you should earn the dungeon armour from the dungeon it represents.

The biggest problem I have with dungeon rewards atm is the disparity of dugneon stats from the dungeon sets. The only way to get certain stat combinations is to do certain dungeons, and that’s really unfair to certain builds. If I want to wear the TA armour with the power/precision/crit stats I need to grind two different dungeons to do it. Why can’t there be more diversity in dungeon reward armour stats? That way the only difference between dungeons is the skins, which is how it always should have been.

I would hate to see my efforts to get my Arah Bow + Sword + my other toys from dungeons go to waste due to an universal token system. I can understand that some people feel as if their bank space is being wasted. Anet has a relatively cheap extra bank slot space price for gems. Gems can even be bought with in game money and irl cash if you feel the need to.

Also, I have not grinded a single day on gw2 unless you count the lvl 80 rush I did when the game was released on the 25th for the pre-purchase;) I still have decent amounts of tokens. Just play the game, no need to farm. Farming is boring, do what you feel like doing at the time. If you want to grind and farm then dont blame Anet, because you have no reason to do so. Want to get a cool looking skin? Take your time over it. Get it over 1 week, no need to get it in 1-3 days. Whats the point in a MMO if you can get stuff within 1-3 days.

Need exotic gear? Cant finish dungeons without it? Craft it using crafting. Its not that hard to craft exotics via crafting stations. Does it look ugly? Well now you have gear to get better looking skins:)

What OP is suggesting is watering content/challenge down even further, while GW2 needs exactly the opposite.

N O !

While I understand where OP’s coming from (also in a small guild, with everyone wanting stuff from different dungeons, having to pug … etc etc), I’m against the idea of an universal token system.

My logic is simple. Having an universal token system will have the effect of making all but the easiest dungeon ghost towns. After all, who’d want to spend 2 hours pugging through Arah when you can clear AC in 30min?

And I don’t believe that the game should reward us, players, with Set “X” when we did dungeon “Y”. That’s like saying “hmmm, I really want oranges, but I only want to plant apple trees. Can I please have apple trees that grow oranges please?”.

The guild system in GW2 is very versatile, it allows you to be in multiple guilds at the same time. So why not try joining a few dungeon-centric guilds and see if it makes the situation better?

Robert Hrouda.1327:

omino.4302:

Any plans for more medium skins in future? those big coats are vile

I can’t speak for art, but if you wanna see an epic sweet big coat for LIGHT armor, the GW1 HoM light armor reward is pretty big and coat-y.

Too bad this is only available for male characters, and not female. The female version is the most wasp-waisted, uncomfortable looking corset thing in game. Perhaps you can mention this to the art team that the light greatcoat epic-ness needs to be more equally available?

Serenity.9726:

My logic is simple. Having an universal token system will have the effect of making all but the easiest dungeon ghost towns. After all, who’d want to spend 2 hours pugging through Arah when you can clear AC in 30min?

definitely. humans are humans after all. and that’s why imho they majorly screwed up endgame “progression”, especially with all that “non-grind” thrown around before launch.

there are much better ways to dangle a carrot in front of players than “run arah enough times for 1400 tokens to show of your leet armor!11! in LA” – and even that is subjective. in the end all it shows he spend enough time in the dungeon. it’s says nothing about his skill. the only achievement is the time spend to grind out the tokens.

it’s the complete opposite of gw1 and the 2007 version of the tedious instancegrind you have in other mmos (don’t forget, gw2 is a revolution).

you can’t tell me they didn’t thought about different concepts during design, and then couldn’t come up with anything better (or couldn’t be bothered, take your pick), which is just sad.

I think having a one token system would be a good thing, and here are two suggestions to adress your concerns about that.

Robert Hrouda.1327:

The main problem we see with a universal token system, is that players will find the easiest dungeons they can do within the DR system’s influence range, and just do them over and over.

Harder dungons, higher reward. This would actually be really clever with the way DR currently works. You can try farm easy dungeon until the DR kicks in. But if you farm harder dungons until the DR kicks in you will have more tokens than the people who have taken the easy route.

Robert Hrouda.1327:

It would be like if people could use all their CoF tokens from the speed/exploit clears, and buy up Arah Dragon armor. Were that the case, the armor itself would have no real value behind it. When you look at a player and you see a full suit of dragon armor, you know that they did a certain thing to get that armor. With a universal token system, you lose that sense of knowledge of what another player has gone through to get what they have.

That on the other hand is a valid point. One way you could fix that is that the dungeon armor guy would only sell you the stuff if you’ve done story mode and all exploration paths of a certain dungeon. He could simply check for you your archivements.
This way you would have to go out of your way and really face all dangers of a dungeons before you can show off the armor skin and everybody could see that you are infact a badkitten.

Hey all, I appreciate all the feedback.

First of all, I admit I didn’t realize there was a huge disparity between dungeons and difficulty.

Secondly, I didn’t realize there was a “prestige” associated with different sets of gear. the Arah gear is ugly as sin (to me/Light Armor) So, I wouldn’t think anyone who was wearing it was an “uber” gamer, just that they had different tastes in gearing their toon.

I understand that people will take the shortest fastest route etc. So let’s come up with something else!

What I’m really trying to address here is that 5 friends (real life and friends I met in other games) came to GW2 to play together and we like PVE. Other than doing random dungeons “for fun” there is no incentive for us to step outside of our perspective instance grind to see what the rest of the dungeons are about.

I am trying to come up with something on the PVE/Dungeon side of the game because it does seem a little lacking.

I do understand through this feedback that a lot of people are working hard towards certain sets that are harder to get and I appreciate that. But I really would like to see some sort of random daily dungeon or something of the sort (maybe a daily dungeon chest) that myself and a few friends can enjoy together. Maybe not tokens as a reward then, but something to get people in Random dungeons.

The Following Example
“Dougal Keane the great explorer has mentioned there was a secret artifact hidden somewhere in Honor of The Waves, bring this artifact to him and you shall be rewarded.” (Hint about a path to choose)

Random Reward: Random Chest, silver, black lion keys, dyes. Etc.

And before we get too crazy about having to add “secrets in dungeons” It can just be a drop off the last boss.

I truly believe with something like this it will help with the PVE side of the game. I really am trying to give my best ideas here. And thanks all so much for the feedback!

Robert Hrouda.1327:

One token to rule them all.
Any character to find them.
One vendor to bring them all,
And in the forge bind them.

The main problem we see with a universal token system, is that players will find the easiest dungeons they can do within the DR system’s influence range, and just do them over and over.
It would be like if people could use all their CoF tokens from the speed/exploit clears, and buy up Arah Dragon armor. Were that the case, the armor itself would have no real value behind it. When you look at a player and you see a full suit of dragon armor, you know that they did a certain thing to get that armor. With a universal token system, you lose that sense of knowledge of what another player has gone through to get what they have.

Awesome. I quickly fall out of love with any kind of prestige item/reward/rank that can be earned via cheesy means as you described.

(I’m looking at you, IWAY.)

I think Robert Hrouda, went with the prestige route but personally I think its more important in the longevity of the game more so then what you had to “go through”.
You want the Arah set? you farm arah. you play in arah Other people play in arah with you.

VS everyone just LFM easiest dungeon to clear lets just do that on repeat = I have access to all the dungeon sets.

Right now. Different armor skins, different stat arrangements are why people do some of the more difficult dungeons, we eliminate that. we practically eliminate the reason to do the dungeon itself.

I wouldn’t mind having an option where you could buy universal tokens using existing tokens you have, at a loss. Maybe one universal token would cost two or three dungeon tokens.

This would keep the most efficient manner of acquiring gear as running the actual dungeon you want the set from, while providing a small incentive to running other dungeons, where in a case like the OP’s they could trade off dungeon runs on different days and everyone would still benefit to some degree.

This entire system could have been avoided if the development team would’ve stuck with the original Guild Wars system, where certain areas drop certain materials and then you have certain armor vendors that craft this armor. There would no longer be a need for a token system. Also, although this is difficult, all dungeons should have been made without a story mode and placed at level 80, and then drops could have been managed depending on the difficulty of each dungeon. This sounds to me like a much better system and effectively stops the problem of having a lack of a player base to do story mode dungeons.

The system right now is simply too fragmented; maybe this system is exactly the same now but with tokens, I really don’t know, but I don’t understand why the team deviated from the tried and true GW1 loot system?

Becasue that kind of gameplay was “grindy”, and people was harrassing a dungeon hoping (praying) for weeks a drop. Now is a matter of master a dungeon, not grind 1000 times until your set drops and is complete. Is it better? Billion times.

Any system that is purely based on drops would be a system that I would not play (a system that I see suggested a lot). I would not waste my time doing something that already give meager rewards for a chance of getting an item that I wanted or could use. This is the wonderful part of the token system, I know what rewards I am going to get, I know how long its going to take me and I get exactly what I want. Not everything in this world needs to be random chance.

Normally I don’t post on subjects such as these. . . especially since I think a universal token system generally leads to overfarming of a certain dungeon, however, there is something not being said here that I feel is rather relevant.

I could care less about the token system as it is right now, except for one minor issue. . . They take up bag space. Can a tab in the collectibles be made for this? Or a Soulbound Collectibles window be created?

I have 4 different token types taking up space in my bags that I’d like to get out but would really not have to go to my bank to find out how many I have when deciding which dungeon my friends and I are going to run for that evening.

maaprid.2168:

Ok, as topic suggests is there eventually going to be a time in the future where we switch to a universal token system?

I have a small guild and all of us want items from different instances. Since we only get a few hours here and there to play we end up pugging our perspective dungeons.

We would very much like to play together, a universal token system would make that possible. Plus I would like to see other dungeons.

I had this situation with my group, so our solution was to rotate the dungeons evenly based on who joined. At this point, we all got what we wanted, even though it took some time (did with the old token system of 30 per unique path), but we played together and learned some new strategies along the way. At the very least, the people who don’t want the current dungeon are getting paid some coin at the end, so there’s a bit of incentive to help each other out.

Maybe you can make a compromise with your group and figure out a fair way to both play together and satisfy each others’ personal token needs. I really don’t see a need to rush the token acquisition as I personally find it more fun just to play with my friends than to get the tokens.

Lucas Ashrock.8675:

Becasue that kind of gameplay was “grindy”, and people was harrassing a dungeon hoping (praying) for weeks a drop. Now is a matter of master a dungeon, not grind 1000 times until your set drops and is complete. Is it better? Billion times.

don’t forget you can simply BUY the stuff from other players. no need to grind DOA for tormentor weapons if you don’t like DOA – you could do what you wanted and get the money/drops/whatever to trade the armbrace or get the mats for the armor, which made the game feel way less grindy.

grinding the same dungeon over and over for armor/weapons/gifts is the complete opposite of that concept.

Parisalchuk.9230:

Any system that is purely based on drops would be a system that I would not play (a system that I see suggested a lot). I would not waste my time doing something that already give meager rewards for a chance of getting an item that I wanted or could use.

drop only system isn’t bad if you can trade stuff. no one likes being stuck with stuff he can’t use which makes the time spend to get it feel pretty pointless. but if you can trade the light boots with the necro in your group who got the heavy boots…. (which then again would require an actual trading function, not “I send you mine and might not get anything in return”).
given the dropchance is sane enough and the loottable small enough to not drop different crap every run.

in the end a drop based system isn’t bad if properly integrated

Gray.9650:

Lucas Ashrock.8675:

Becasue that kind of gameplay was “grindy”, and people was harrassing a dungeon hoping (praying) for weeks a drop. Now is a matter of master a dungeon, not grind 1000 times until your set drops and is complete. Is it better? Billion times.

don’t forget you can simply BUY the stuff from other players. no need to grind DOA for tormentor weapons if you don’t like DOA – you could do what you wanted and get the money/drops/whatever to trade the armbrace or get the mats for the armor, which made the game feel way less grindy.

grinding the same dungeon over and over for armor/weapons/gifts is the complete opposite of that concept.

Parisalchuk.9230:

Any system that is purely based on drops would be a system that I would not play (a system that I see suggested a lot). I would not waste my time doing something that already give meager rewards for a chance of getting an item that I wanted or could use.

drop only system isn’t bad if you can trade stuff. no one likes being stuck with stuff he can’t use which makes the time spend to get it feel pretty pointless. but if you can trade the light boots with the necro in your group who got the heavy boots…. (which then again would require an actual trading function, not “I send you mine and might not get anything in return”).
given the dropchance is sane enough and the loottable small enough to not drop different crap every run.

in the end a drop based system isn’t bad if properly integrated

Even with the addition of tradable pieces I dont see what you gain in doing this. You still add frustration in now having to find a partner to trade, and if you add an NPC who would trade then there really is no reason to add that system, because deep down you basically are using your useless item as a ‘token’ to trade for the item you actually want.

I have yet to see anyone on these forums give an actual logical reason why random drop is better than the system now.

Agree. People just want everything now, easy, 3 days and i’m done. Such of pathetic
I’m still waiting a logical reason to have random drop instead of the current system

I have yet to see anyone on these forums give an actual logical reason why random drop is better than the system now.

because almost everything is better than running the same dungeon over and over. as I said random is not bad when done right. for example tradeable also means sellable. If I can’t or don’t want to find someone to trade, I just sell it – and buy the thing I want in return. which also opens other possibilities to get said item, by doing stuff that is subjectively more fun than running the same dungeon over and over and over. random drop + tradeable also means you don’t come in contact with the RNG if you don’t want to if you just buy/trade the item. the progression is more or less fixed like with a token system while offering much more choice inbetween.

and before someone comes up with “b-b-but the armor is an achievement!” – yeah right, the achievement you spend X hours in an instance.
the mentioned system worked fine in gw1, it even added longevity to the game buy not shoehorning players into content they don’t want to do and burning them out.

Gray.9650:

I have yet to see anyone on these forums give an actual logical reason why random drop is better than the system now.

because almost everything is better than running the same dungeon over and over. as I said random is not bad when done right. for example tradeable also means sellable. If I can’t or don’t want to find someone to trade, I just sell it – and buy the thing I want in return. which also opens other possibilities to get said item, by doing stuff that is subjectively more fun than running the same dungeon over and over and over. random drop + tradeable also means you don’t come in contact with the RNG if you don’t want to if you just buy/trade the item. the progression is more or less fixed like with a token system while offering much more choice inbetween.

and before someone comes up with “b-b-but the armor is an achievement!” – yeah right, the achievement you spend X hours in an instance.
the mentioned system worked fine in gw1, it even added longevity to the game buy not shoehorning players into content they don’t want to do and burning them out.

So you basically are saying that you want dungeons to be farmable so that you can make money to buy things from other areas that you want. That is not at all the point of dungeons…..

Yes, the armor and weapons are a symbol that you have completed an area the exact same way that in GW1 you had to complete portions of FoW in order to get Obi Armor and you couldnt get faction armor without having specific ranks regardless of if you purchased everything to create it.

Honestly this just sounds like people want Arah armor with only putting in the effort to clear AC.

Parisalchuk.9230:

Gray.9650:

I have yet to see anyone on these forums give an actual logical reason why random drop is better than the system now.

because almost everything is better than running the same dungeon over and over. as I said random is not bad when done right. for example tradeable also means sellable. If I can’t or don’t want to find someone to trade, I just sell it – and buy the thing I want in return. which also opens other possibilities to get said item, by doing stuff that is subjectively more fun than running the same dungeon over and over and over. random drop + tradeable also means you don’t come in contact with the RNG if you don’t want to if you just buy/trade the item. the progression is more or less fixed like with a token system while offering much more choice inbetween.

and before someone comes up with “b-b-but the armor is an achievement!” – yeah right, the achievement you spend X hours in an instance.
the mentioned system worked fine in gw1, it even added longevity to the game buy not shoehorning players into content they don’t want to do and burning them out.

So you basically are saying that you want dungeons to be farmable so that you can make money to buy things from other areas that you want. That is not at all the point of dungeons…..

Yes, the armor and weapons are a symbol that you have completed an area the exact same way that in GW1 you had to complete portions of FoW in order to get Obi Armor and you couldnt get faction armor without having specific ranks regardless of if you purchased everything to create it.

Honestly this just sounds like people want Arah armor with only putting in the effort to clear AC.

actually they are, even a devpost said so. they are meant to be “fun” (ymmv), “no grind” (take that as you will) and an equally good source of money. if that’s not the point of dungeons, what is it? the “I did this dungeon 50+ times” badge in form of a special armor? funny that people ran dungeons in gw1 without that crutch.

obsidian didn’t require repeated runs over and over if you didn’t want to, rank was only required for some armor and even then hardly an issue.

and btw, “waaah someone disagrees this must mean he wants easy stuff” hardly helps your argument. especially when you imply that the current system is an improvement to gw1.

@Robert

a universal token would work.just need to add a timer that only allows people to run each dungeon once a day.once someone runs a dungeon,they will be locked out of that dungeon until daily resets.some people will still only run the easiest dungeon but then they will end up making their dungeon gear take longer to get.and to make it so that players will run all dungeons,you can implement a tier system for the dungeons.the easier ones will give less tokens and the harder ones will give more.can also increase the chance of rare loot from the chest in the harder dungeons

While I can understand not implementing a universal token system at all—I agree with Robert Hrouda that it’s a bad idea for the health of the game for all tokens to be universal—there might be a compromise.

What if dungeon armors and weapons only required that two thirds of the tokens you use to buy them be dungeon-specific tokens? For example: let’s say I want to get a helmet from Twilight Arbor. Right now that requires 180 Deadly Blooms. What if, instead, it required 120 Deadly Blooms and 60 of any token (including Deadly Blooms)? You could buy it with 120 Deadly Blooms and 60 Ascalonian Tears. Or 120 Deadly Blooms, 20 Symbols of Koda, and 40 Shards of Zhaitan. Or you could buy it with 170 Deadly Blooms and 10 Ascalonian Tears.

The advantage to this, of course, would be for small guilds and groups of friends—they can run dungeons with each other without ever having to slow down their “progress” towards the armor set they want. At the same time, the majority of the tokens for each armor set do have to come from that set’s dungeon, so you know that the person probably spent most of their time there.

Robert Hrouda.1327:

The main problem we see with a universal token system, is that players will find the easiest dungeons they can do within the DR system’s influence range, and just do them over and over.

can they at least have solution to not have our bank flood by different dungeon token ? like larger stack and a slot for them in the “collection” bank ?
Buying item without having to cross all the city to take them from the bank should be nice too or a bank near the dungeon vendor