Guild Wars 2

mulch.2586:

Given the fact I can stand on right top of a mound and not be able to hit it with a freakin sledgehammer… there’s more to it than just that. If you want to bring mound-killers, you have to exclude anyone who uses melee OR conditions. Or range. hmm… do turrets handle them pretty well?

I hope they get it fixed before we get out of beta… oops :o

I think any responsible player has a couple extra bits of gear to help with particular situations like that, and there’s good reason we can adjust our utilities and traits on the fly.

True! I know I bring both my defense set and my glass cannon set and switch to whatever seems appropriate. As far as melee is concerned, I know you have to keep moving around in order to make it count. If you stand in one spot, it always reports a “Miss” for some reason. I’m assuming the hitboxes for those mounds are really small or just oddly shaped. Until then, keep circling around the mound until it dies.

Id just keep trying to find a group if I were you and not give up. My gear is pretty much all vit, power, condition damage and I havent run into your issue yet as a thief. Also at your level you can just go to the TP and buy gear that has vit and power on it for dirt cheap and maybe that will make people happier. I find other players like it when they are downed, still getting hit and they get shadow refuge thrown on them. Then you can rez them uninterupted or they can finish rezzing themselves. Smoke screen is cool too againts ranged attacks. When the boss that sucks everyone in (first AC chest I think in explore – Kohler?) downs a bunch of your team use your steal ability which will give you the power of fear. (smoke screen blocks his get over here ability btw) Pop the fear and he will wander off long enough for you to rez one of them, probably. After a bit most are not getting downed by him anyway as they recognize his incoming attack. All ghosts give fear on steal I think. But use it only when needed as it moves them out of your teams aoe.

But others have a right to form the types of groups they want. I dont get it in story mode my guess is they were a bunch of nubs if they were in story so they didnt know what they were talking about. More nubbier then me even… Gathering tokens Id understand some players trying to make the best group so as to speed run as many paths in the time they have available. “in the time they have available” dont hate them they are just playing the game they way they want like the rest of us. Some players are just on a mission to get it done asap and I respect that. In that case just keep looking for another group.

Agemnon.4608:

Why wouldn’t they want necromancers! Necros have high HP pools, can have an entourage of minions, and… lifesteal! Hello! As for rangers they have pets, many of which I’m sure are optimal for dungeons.

I can tell you a reason as to why I don’t really like having necros or rangers in my groups. AoE skills that grant buffs to, up to 5, allies.

A guildie now does dungeon with his ranger sometimes. I often find myself without Quickness from TW, while the other 4 and his pet has it..

As much as I hate that, I’m not going to go around looking for anything but necro and rangers(and mesmers), it’s not their fault afterall.

I hope Arenanet set priority to players soon, rather than NPCs. Also, priority over everyone for the user, ex: I’d always get Quickness no matter what as long as I’m inside MY time wrap.

To whoever said rangers and necros are useless in dungeons, I challenge you to come and play with me.

Me and my guildies regularly run a dungeon group of 2 rangers, a necro and a mesmer (which from what I can tell, are the least popular classes for some people >.>). And we are by far not at all “useless”. Any random asked to fill up the one space are usually more than impressed. All that one needs to know is to know how to play to your strengths. Not everything is about dpsdpsdpskthxbai Sure, things can get tough if you don’t know what to expect, but you learn from it and move on.

Also, as a challenge, we tried to do Arah story with only 4 people. Necro dc’ed halfway. Us two rangers and mesmer? We rocked on. ;D

Bads are going to create arbitrary stupid rules of who can who cannot join instances regardless of what is useful in dungeons.

I mean who in the right mind says no to necromancers? Necros are one of the best aoe damage classes in the game thanks to epidemic.

Just be glad that they have declared their stupidity to you in their “only classes x or y” statements and put as great a distance between yourself and their incompetence as possible.

penatbater.4710:

Naoko.7096:

Based on personal experience. E.g. If players keep having difficult times with the same class repeatedly, they will start to avoid that class in the party. “Once bitten, twice shy” – It’s human nature. I won’t dive in nor debate about how good the individual classes are because I’ve not personally played those classes. But based on many players experiences, rangers and necros aren’t good in dungeons for the above reason I shared. I personally witness more wipe and longer dungeons with them. It’s quite normal for them to feel that way because they don’t want to spend 2-3 hours in dungeon when they can finish it in 40 minutes. Worse, doing a fruitless 2-3 hours dungeon and everyone gave up. It’s really not the classes fault. It’s the structure of the dungeon. The structure is very different from PVE and typical mmo boss raids. It’s makes players feel “choosy”.

I disagree. The fact that there are ALOT of rangers and necros who do good in dungeons, as well as testimonies fro numerous people about their good experiences with those class negates your concept that the dungeons are structurally flawed against rangers and necros. It’s all in your head (and bad experiences, bad luck) I’m afraid.

Also, all I got from your post is that rangers and necros are bad because they pull bad. Which is weird. And a terrible argument (if you still consider them structurally bad). If pulling is becoming a big deal for you, might I suggest you pull instead? I can pull mobs on my 900-range small-aoe pistol (eng). In fact, I know a ranger who pulls better than me (due to longbow range).

You’re thinking of “luring mobs” in a different manner.
It’s not they “pull bad”, they “aggro mobs” badly. It’s not like what you think in PVE.

Let’s take TA dungeon path Forward + Up as an example. In the last section of the dungeon, players have to do range to the boss without aggro’ing the spiders. Each spiders are equavalent to a veteran/champion risen. There’re unlimited of them spawning around the stationary Nightmare Tree boss. If the army of spiders aggro to you too much, they will wipe out your party. The way point back is 2-3 minutes. If everyone is pushed back too far to survive, the boss will reset to full HP.

I have my experience of necro summons lure all those spiders into the party. The other scenario of ranger pet run to the boss and got killed by the spiders within 5-10 seconds but made those spiders aggro to us next.

In many dungeons paths, the structure is the same. It’s not the boss which is threatening but the surrounding mobs. The only way to survive is not to aggro the other mobs but focus on the boss. Once the boss is killed, other mobs will disappear.

Waar Kijk Je Naar.8713:

While condition builds are the way to go on Thiefs, they’re rather bad in group play, mostly because conditions (mainly Bleed) stack only 25 times. 1 Thief alone can go over that if he does his job well, so if you have multiple people with bleeds, the whole group is at a disadvantage.

Then again I think stuff like this doesn’t happen all that often.

Nope, the 25 stacks of bleeding that you see on a mob is only visual. Say you can stack 13 bleeds on your own. When other people stack bleeds on the same mob, it only seems to add to your 13 stacks of bleeds. In reality, you’re still doing 13 stacks of bleed worth of damage (out of the visual 25 stacks). And if you can somehow increase your 13 stacks to say, 20, your bleed ticks will be more frequent, like it’s supposed to. But you’ll still see 25 stacks due to multiple people using bleed.

Naoko.7096:

penatbater.4710:

Naoko.7096:

Based on personal experience. E.g. If players keep having difficult times with the same class repeatedly, they will start to avoid that class in the party. “Once bitten, twice shy” – It’s human nature. I won’t dive in nor debate about how good the individual classes are because I’ve not personally played those classes. But based on many players experiences, rangers and necros aren’t good in dungeons for the above reason I shared. I personally witness more wipe and longer dungeons with them. It’s quite normal for them to feel that way because they don’t want to spend 2-3 hours in dungeon when they can finish it in 40 minutes. Worse, doing a fruitless 2-3 hours dungeon and everyone gave up. It’s really not the classes fault. It’s the structure of the dungeon. The structure is very different from PVE and typical mmo boss raids. It’s makes players feel “choosy”.

I disagree. The fact that there are ALOT of rangers and necros who do good in dungeons, as well as testimonies fro numerous people about their good experiences with those class negates your concept that the dungeons are structurally flawed against rangers and necros. It’s all in your head (and bad experiences, bad luck) I’m afraid.

Also, all I got from your post is that rangers and necros are bad because they pull bad. Which is weird. And a terrible argument (if you still consider them structurally bad). If pulling is becoming a big deal for you, might I suggest you pull instead? I can pull mobs on my 900-range small-aoe pistol (eng). In fact, I know a ranger who pulls better than me (due to longbow range).

You’re thinking of “luring mobs” in a different manner.
It’s not they “pull bad”, they “aggro mobs” badly. It’s not like what you think in PVE.

Let’s take TA dungeon path Forward + Up as an example. In the last section of the dungeon, players have to do range to the boss without aggro’ing the spiders. Each spiders are equavalent to a veteran/champion risen. There’re unlimited of them spawning around the stationary Nightmare Tree boss. If the army of spiders aggro to you too much, they will wipe out your party. The way point back is 2-3 minutes. If everyone is pushed back too far to survive, the boss will reset to full HP.

I have my experience of necro summons lure all those spiders into the party. The other scenario of ranger pet run to the boss and got killed by the spiders within 5-10 seconds but made those spiders aggro to us next.

In many dungeons paths, the structure is the same. It’s not the boss which is threatening but the surrounding mobs. The only way to survive is not to aggro the other mobs but focus on the boss. Once the boss is killed, other mobs will disappear.

Ahh I see what you mean. However there are alot of workarounds to it. Clearly your ranger/necro in that party wasn’t that well-versed with his char though >_>

Man, I cannot understand all these people trying to justify playing a ranger in dungeons. They are just not good.

1. Damage – There damage is sub par at best. Plain and simple. I have a ranger with full berserkers and the damage is terrible compared to just about any other class. Condition damage is almost decent if you are full spec’d into it and standing in the right spot for shortbow auto attacks.

2. The Pets – Sorry, I don’t care how much you spec into beast mastery, those things are going to go down, and fast. If half the people in dungeons can’t dodge monster and boss spec’s that take them out almost instantly, you can’t micro your pet to do it. Not to mention half the fights you have to dodge the big damage; let me know if you pet can do that.

3. Condition Removal – Lol, nonexistent. If you think that removing 1 condition every 25 seconds with healing spring is acceptable condition removal, you need to try out another class. Only thing good is the water combo field.

4. Survivability – The only good things about them is that they are ranged. If you are running anything other than bows or an axe, you are doing something wrong. Yes you can dodge 4 times with a sword, but good luck trying it when you are rooted in place autoattacking. All survivability involves is running away and thus, not doing damage. I’ve ran pure survivability but still can’t stay up because…

5. Healing – Only 1 healing slot on rangers, no utility skills at all. And the shortest of those is 20 seconds.

6. Spirits – Lol. 2 hit by a granny with a cane, ’nuff said.

Of course people will come up with counters to all these points, spouting off instances where ranger utilities and skills are so good and can’t be outdone by ANY other class. But I and a majority of members in the community have realized that rangers are barely viable and terribly inefficient. You may be a kittenong all GW2 players and be the best ranger in the game, but you have to remember the majority of players do not have your awesome prowess.

And just to prove that I’m not just a ranger hater, check out the screen shot of almost 600 hours on a my ranger. I really wish the ranger was good for dungeons (or anything at that matter) and I have tried almost any build out there, but warriors and guardians can outplay them in every case. Cross your fingers that the ranger buffs will be a good one.

Rangers have to work twice as hard to be almost as good as other classes. Play a fully geared ranger, then play another class. They will be out damaged and out utilitied by a variety of other classes/builds.

Not to mention single target ranged weapons are terrible for a majority of dungeon events. They can use greatsword but they are just a subpar guardian or warrior who dies quicker and doesn’t provide the offensive and defensive boons that benefit the group much more like a guardian or warrior.

Mesmer and Ele provide better support through increased dps, combo fields, and misc. utility if you want to talk about softer ranged classes, can’t do near the burst damage of warrior or thieves, and don’t provide even close to the group survivability a guardian does.

Thieves can be okay as long as they are not terrible, but sometimes you get full berserker thieves who don’t know how to dodge/stealth who are constantly dieing. Necro and Rangers are bottom tier for dungeons, this is coming from someone who played Necro all 3 BWEs and my first 80 was a necro. Some classes just provide much more in dungeons and can kill faster, provide better buffs, and generally make runs more smooth or provide some sort of function better then other classes. Necro and Ranger are not those classes.