Guild Wars 2

What kind of behavior would you choose to say, “Well, this PUG had their chance, it’s kick time.”?

I was recently doing AR with my guildies, but we had 1 spot we needed filled, so we grabbed a PUG. He D/Cs before the end boss, so we eventually decide to pick up another PUG rather than four person the run. Picked up a guardian meaning that our group was Guard x3, warrior, elementalist.

We go in and myself, our other guardian and our warrior are meleeing Mai, trying to get the electric circles to pop up under us so we can pull the stacks off of her.

The PUG guardian is using his scepter and staying at range. Which is okay, just slightly annoying when the electric circles pop up under him and it becomes more difficult to get Mai to end up in one.

After the first 25%, when Mai jumps back down, the PUG says in chat, “lol why are you guys dpsing her?”
To which I reply, “We’re trying to get the electric fields on her, what are you doing?”
He says, “Better than you”

Now, this guy just jumps in at the last boss, is in a guild run, and the first thing he says is basically an insult. My first thought is to kick this guy then and there, but then I always hated the idea of just kicking a person and I try to avoid it. I know we could have 4 personed this fight. In the end we chose not to kick this PUG, but I know I put him on my block list. Would you guys have given him the boot? Do you feel it would have been justifiable?

On a side note, is meleeing Mai Trin really that odd?

scepter camping guardian is not doing better than you :/

I would have kicked him for being an kitten about it.

He was definitely annoying enough to justify a kick. Not just he showed to be rather unexperienced about this fight, he even dared to be insolent and call himself better and above the others.
The only thing in the world that will make me request a kick towards someone is when the person acts disrespectfully, treats the others as lesser than him and insults.

The moment he starts using scepter or staff is when you boot or if it’s not your party, you leave. I don’t ever run with trash like that.

swiftpaw.6397:

scepter camping guardian is not doing better than you :/

I would have kicked him for being an kitten about it.

Can we PLEASE make “Scepter Camping Guardian” into a meme?

I’m perfectly fine discussing strategy or a mechanic with PUGs, I’m even okay if they disagree with me and we have to pick one or another. I’m not okay when they shut down the conversation with insults. “better than you” completely justified the kick.

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

swiftpaw.6397:

scepter camping guardian is not doing better than you :/

I would have kicked him for being an kitten about it.

Can we PLEASE make “Scepter Camping Guardian” into a meme?

But guardians are not allowed to use scepter now?

colesy.8490:

The moment he starts using scepter or staff is when you boot or if it’s not your party, you leave. I don’t ever run with trash like that.

You never use scepter or staff?

colesy.8490:

The moment he starts using scepter or staff is when you boot or if it’s not your party, you leave. I don’t ever run with trash like that.

Blanket statements like this are bad. Staff is great for running in TA. Scepter is fine for when you must range instead of melee. You’re ignorant if you kick immediately when seeing staff/scepter on guard.

aophts.9862:

But guardians are not allowed to use scepter now?

There are about 3 fights in the game where guardian should use scepter. Staff is acceptable for running trash, pulls, Empower and a few instances where Line of Warding is useful, never dpsing. The other 95% of the time, guardians should be meleeing.

You never use scepter or staff?

I basically never use staff except for swiftness out of combat, scepter I use very rarely.

Blanket statements like this are bad. Staff is great for running in TA. Scepter is fine for when you must range instead of melee. You’re ignorant if you kick immediately when seeing staff/scepter on guard.

So it’s great for skipping mobs, that’s fine. And the amount of times I have to range in this game I could probably count on one hand.

Just to note, the two dungeons I run frequently are cof p1 and all coe paths, so since a guard is only relevant in the latter, if I was hosting a party and saw the guard was using a scepter then yes I would kick on the spot since it’s trash and they don’t need it. Do you know what coe consists of? Skipping mobs (no combat), one-shotting mini-golems (melee) and burning down bosses in full melee. Where is the scepter needed?

You’re ignorant if you think ranged weapons are relevant in dungeons, in almost all cases they’re not.

laharl.8435:

aophts.9862:

But guardians are not allowed to use scepter now?

There are about 3 fights in the game where guardian should use scepter. Staff is acceptable for running trash, pulls, Empower and a few instances where Line of Warding is useful, never dpsing. The other 95% of the time, guardians should be meleeing.

This about sums it up.

I can think of quite a few of use for those ranged weapons in fotm alone.
Ascalon pull, ascalon boss
Cliffside 1st boss for safe
Mossman (arguably)
Dredge boss

Scepter/staff shouldnt equal to boot

Afya.5842:

I can think of quite a few of use for those ranged weapons in fotm alone.
Ascalon pull, ascalon boss
Cliffside 1st boss for safe
Mossman (arguably)
Dredge boss

Scepter/staff shouldnt equal to boot

That’s great and all, but doing a fotm 48 daily with a guardian who ONLY uses staff/scepter the entire time will drive you mad.

Range weapon usage for boss, according to me:
Must: Grawl Shaman last boss of fractal.
Acceptable: Mossman, Lupi, Ooze boss of arah p1, Kaisar of arah p4, Fractal Dregde last boss, Ascalon Last Boss, Cliffside Bosses.

Sometimes it’s wise to give your PUG a chance and see what they’re up to. It can be smarter than the common knowledge tactic. It can be smarter than your guild tactics. As an example, groups often insist that I stand in the huddle as they’ve always been in groups that huddle up for a pull. The huddle itself isn’t important. It’s the grouping of mobs for aoe that is important, so squishy classes can always take care of their own defense elsewhere as long as they maintain the killing zone and can maintain their group support.

It’s always funny to see people using common knowledge exploits that don’t work any more. The players insist you stand in specific spots and then die horribly when it doesn’t work. What a shame!

Yeah, I know there are few cases of people doing skydiving and their parachute did not open but they still miraculously survived.

Stooperdale.3560:

Sometimes it’s wise to give your PUG a chance and see what they’re up to. It can be smarter than the common knowledge tactic. It can be smarter than your guild tactics. As an example, groups often insist that I stand in the huddle as they’ve always been in groups that huddle up for a pull. The huddle itself isn’t important. It’s the grouping of mobs for aoe that is important, so squishy classes can always take care of their own defense elsewhere as long as they maintain the killing zone and can maintain their group support.

It’s always funny to see people using common knowledge exploits that don’t work any more. The players insist you stand in specific spots and then die horribly when it doesn’t work. What a shame!

If mobs go to the person who is not in the stack, the whole concept is ruined. Like the guy who wants to range Alpha. He gets stuck in the crystal and dies or worse, Alpha goes to him and the whole strategy goes to crap.

Stooperdale.3560:

Sometimes it’s wise to give your PUG a chance and see what they’re up to. It can be smarter than the common knowledge tactic. It can be smarter than your guild tactics. As an example, groups often insist that I stand in the huddle as they’ve always been in groups that huddle up for a pull. The huddle itself isn’t important. It’s the grouping of mobs for aoe that is important, so squishy classes can always take care of their own defense elsewhere as long as they maintain the killing zone and can maintain their group support.

It’s always funny to see people using common knowledge exploits that don’t work any more. The players insist you stand in specific spots and then die horribly when it doesn’t work. What a shame!

Grouping and LoSing mobs is a strategy that kills faster than jumping into the middle of a group and trying to be a hero. I don’t see what the problem here is. If people do it incorrectly then sure, things go wrong. But fighting mobs where they stand isn’t a strategy. It’s looking at a problem and not thinking about a better solution.

Wow the dribble in this thread is crazy. lol i stopped reading half way however.

colesy.8490:

You never use scepter or staff?

I basically never use staff except for swiftness out of combat, scepter I use very rarely.

Blanket statements like this are bad. Staff is great for running in TA. Scepter is fine for when you must range instead of melee. You’re ignorant if you kick immediately when seeing staff/scepter on guard.

So it’s great for skipping mobs, that’s fine. And the amount of times I have to range in this game I could probably count on one hand.

Just to note, the two dungeons I run frequently are cof p1 and all coe paths, so since a guard is only relevant in the latter, if I was hosting a party and saw the guard was using a scepter then yes I would kick on the spot since it’s trash and they don’t need it. Do you know what coe consists of? Skipping mobs (no combat), one-shotting mini-golems (melee) and burning down bosses in full melee. Where is the scepter needed?

You’re ignorant if you think ranged weapons are relevant in dungeons, in almost all cases they’re not.

Your ignorance is blocking your mind from understanding the point I was making.

I also like your last statement, in which you state both ranged weapons are relevant in dungeons and not relevant at the same time.

PUG Behavior that makes me kick them: Be a smart aleck, being new to a path and keeping quiet, getting defensive when I try to guide them to prevent further wipes. I kick AND block.

I facepalm when I see guards stick to staff like their lives depended on it. #1 is only good for Arah P3 kiting, and TA. When I see them use it even on bosses I just want to scream. I alternate between scepter/mace and focus/shield and GS. It really depends on the situation. What matters is they shouldn’t be a one-trick pony.

Your ignorance is blocking your mind from understanding the point I was making.
I also like your last statement, in which you state both ranged weapons are relevant in dungeons and not relevant at the same time.

No, I said in almost all cases they’re not. Just how on my guard I have used my shield once in dungeons, but that doesn’t mean it’s “relevant in dungeons” just how ranged weapons are barely used, and are therefore not relevant in dungeons on the whole.

Good to know you’re probably some “tank” guardian running trash clerics gear and scepter spamming though, means people on here know to avoid you if they ever want a serious run.

colesy.8490:

Your ignorance is blocking your mind from understanding the point I was making.
I also like your last statement, in which you state both ranged weapons are relevant in dungeons and not relevant at the same time.

No, I said in almost all cases they’re not. Just how on my guard I have used my shield once in dungeons, but that doesn’t mean it’s “relevant in dungeons” just how ranged weapons are barely used, and are therefore not relevant in dungeons on the whole.

Good to know you’re probably some “tank” guardian running trash clerics gear and scepter spamming though, means people on here know to avoid you if they ever want a serious run.

Your ignorance is more and more astounding. I am a mesmer with zerk gear wielding Sword&focus mostly, with GS or staff as 2nd.

When I am playing with my family which makes us a group of four and we need a fifth I have zero tolerance for bad attitude. I will not subject them to kitten from some random internet guy. Bad or inexperienced player no problem as we are inexperienced as well. It is your time and your party kick at will.

Now from the perspective of the pug sometimes I wonder from what planet the guild is from. But I keep my mouth shut. Except for the time they all died on the last boss and one of them started on me about not rallying them (revive before dead I mean) and it just struck me the wrong way. So I left party with the final boss only needing two or three more hits. Eat that I thought lol.

Ethics.4519:

I’m perfectly fine discussing strategy or a mechanic with PUGs, I’m even okay if they disagree with me and we have to pick one or another. I’m not okay when they shut down the conversation with insults. “better than you” completely justified the kick.

This
And also i would have kicked the pug in the second.Wouldn’t even think about it

Kicking is too small of a punishment for bad mouths. Why even today I did AC and I suggested that we didn’t stack the Spider Queen after most of the mobs were cleared because I honestly didn’t believe this PuG had what it took to stand in one spot and not move. A perma staff wielding Necro (don’t actually know if that’s good or not) became very insulting regarding my intelligence at such a ‘stupid tactic’. I moved the mouse away from Vote Kick and spent the rest of the run dedicating myself to pulling as many mobs as I could onto him, no easy feat mind you. Overall I think he was defeated about 8 times and half of those all I had to do was make a Graveling knock him down and the lack of stability did the rest for me. And oh boy did I rack up some kills on that sprint from the scepter pieces chest to the Howling King area… Oddly enough the rest of the group did pretty well.

Dolan.3071:

A perma staff wielding Necro (don’t actually know if that’s good or not)

You wouldn’t be able to notice the difference between 4manning the run and having a staff necro in your group.

Do not kick people unless they are preventing you from completing the dungeon or fractal etc. just because you think someone is being rude doesn’t mean that person behind the keyboard is trying to insult you. Yes sometimes they are but it could also be their humor. I understand people making insulting jokes in a friendly manner but you can not type humor.
I had to take part in kicking a commander from a fractal 48 yesterday. him and his mate did not meet the required Agony resistance. They did not tell us they only had 35 AR until i asked on the 2nd fractal after noticing them doing down fast. The party worked hard to carry those 2 in the boss fights and we made it to the end in ok time. but we wiped on the 2nd phase of Maw. Using 2 guardian tomes we tried 6 times to get past the agony to finish however we couldn’t due to those 2 lacking AR and not living the 4 seconds for tomes to heal.

laharl.8435:

aophts.9862:

But guardians are not allowed to use scepter now?

There are about 3 fights in the game where guardian should use scepter. Staff is acceptable for running trash, pulls, Empower and a few instances where Line of Warding is useful, never dpsing. The other 95% of the time, guardians should be meleeing.

Well, i agree with staff, but scepter is very useful in many situation, and that it’s your opinion, not a fact.

There’s a difference between having scepter on swap so you can drop out of melee range to duck some pressure because you’re missing dodges or just need to heal up and camping scepter at 900 range because you’re a big dumb babby who doesn’t know how to melee at all.

The first one is a player that hasn’t quite mastered full melee but understands how to play, the second one is asking for a kick.

colesy.8490:

Your ignorance is blocking your mind from understanding the point I was making.
I also like your last statement, in which you state both ranged weapons are relevant in dungeons and not relevant at the same time.

No, I said in almost all cases they’re not. Just how on my guard I have used my shield once in dungeons, but that doesn’t mean it’s “relevant in dungeons” just how ranged weapons are barely used, and are therefore not relevant in dungeons on the whole.

Good to know you’re probably some “tank” guardian running trash clerics gear and scepter spamming though, means people on here know to avoid you if they ever want a serious run.

And you’re exactly the kind of guy who needs to be kicked from parties, just going by your attitude and the way you talk. No one needs that kitten.

some PUGs are very nice actually, and can be very helpful, my guild doesn’t really do the dungeons I like doing (arah and fractals) so I mostly pug them, but I really hate elitist pugs who think they’re better than everyone and ragequit at the 1st wipe.

colesy.8490:

The moment he starts using scepter or staff is when you boot or if it’s not your party, you leave. I don’t ever run with trash like that.

….What? WHAT?

As a guardian main who pugs frequently, this is blanket statement that is just wrong. Have you ever been in a group with 2 thieves, 1 ranger, and 1 elementalist? I have. I was using staff and playing support almost constantly to keep them alive. The moment I would switch to a non-support weapon, one of them would go down with their paper armor in flames. I was using shouts and tome of courage constantly, and we still barely made it out of most fights intact. If I refused to heal with the staff and go bunker with the mace/shield, we never would have succeeded.

To answer the OP: Acceptable pug behavior is this to me:
1: Is the person competent with the basic fundamentals of their class? They can stay
2: Are they willing to learn and listen if they are new? If yes, they can stay
3: Are they friendly/helpful to other new/inexperienced group members? If yes, they can stay.

If they disparage other party members constantly, they need to leave. If they have an elitist mentality (Zerk armor is best for every dungeon, no exceptions) They need to leave. If they refuse to accept other party member’s mistakes/refuse to listen to other party member’s opinions, they need to leave.

Based on this, I would have kicked the guy.

Piper Hecht.6538:

colesy.8490:

The moment he starts using scepter or staff is when you boot or if it’s not your party, you leave. I don’t ever run with trash like that.

If they have an elitist mentality (Zerk armor is best for every dungeon, no exceptions) They need to leave.

How exactly is that an elitist mentality? I would agree if you said something like “If you don’t run Zerk armour you’re a poopy noob”, but thinking/saying that Zerk is just the best, without abusing people for not using it? I’m not sure I can agree with you, that’s not being elitist.

Oooh I would have definitely kicked.
I can stand a pug failing a couple of times (we tend to kick only if they’re dragging the whole team down by causing wipes, at least more than once), but I can’t stand an idiot that jumps in someone else’s team, at the end of the dungeon, and then has the nerve to whine/flame/pick random tactics, thinking he knows best. Usually he doesn’t.

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

Piper Hecht.6538:

colesy.8490:

The moment he starts using scepter or staff is when you boot or if it’s not your party, you leave. I don’t ever run with trash like that.

If they have an elitist mentality (Zerk armor is best for every dungeon, no exceptions) They need to leave.

How exactly is that an elitist mentality? I would agree if you said something like “If you don’t run Zerk armour you’re a poopy noob”, but thinking/saying that Zerk is just the best, without abusing people for not using it? I’m not sure I can agree with you, that’s not being elitist.

I guess I meant for it to tie in with the whole “refusing to accept other people’s opinions” thing, but I agree it was unclear. What I mean was, now there seems to be a large number of people who will kick you from groups if you’re not wearing zerker gear without even hearing the reasons why. That kind of intolerant, “My way or the highway” attitude just doesn’t work in dungeons, and that’s what I meant to say.

For a group to be successful, it has to be cohesive, which means party members have to work together/listen to each other. My point was that that type of “zerker or I’ll kick you/trashtalk you for not knowing how to play the game” attitude simply doesn’t work for me, and if I’m the dungeon leader, I’ll kick someone who has that attitude. Basically, I’m agreeing with you.

Nikaido.3457:

Dolan.3071:

A perma staff wielding Necro (don’t actually know if that’s good or not)

You wouldn’t be able to notice the difference between 4manning the run and having a staff necro in your group.

And there goes the few shreds of guilt I had about what I did.

And you’re exactly the kind of guy who needs to be kicked from parties, just going by your attitude and the way you talk. No one needs that kitten.

Actually, being a selective toolbag is what helps me get in to strong dungeon groups. Why settle for trash when I can get a full zerk group?

I just did a low level fractal with some … people … and a ranger, and he sat there ranging Mossman at level 2. Like, dude, that’s not needed. To be honest, seeing the ranger I probably should have quit, but I’m trying to level my mesmer on fractals and since barely anyone does low level I have to take what I can get. There was also a guardian who was using their scepter against jade colossus which was just moronic and in cliffside fractal for literally no reason.

As a guardian main who pugs frequently, this is blanket statement that is just wrong. Have you ever been in a group with 2 thieves, 1 ranger, and 1 elementalist? I have. I was using staff and playing support almost constantly to keep them alive. The moment I would switch to a non-support weapon, one of them would go down with their paper armor in flames. I was using shouts and tome of courage constantly, and we still barely made it out of most fights intact. If I refused to heal with the staff and go bunker with the mace/shield, we never would have succeeded.

So basically you played with an awful group and decided to use an awful weapon when your shouts should have been able to do enough support. Mace is trash, shield is trash, using staff in combat is trash, you were playing bad alongside them, they were just playing worse. Do you know how much support a guard needs to give? Prot/regen with hold the line, a little heal with their virtue and the two blocks through their other virtue and retreat. If you’re spec’d for DPS you can spam blinds with virtue of justice which basically function as additional blocks. I see a support guard and I just see someone trying to “be a tank” when all it means is they stay alive, do zero DPS and just give the same amount of support a DPS guard would with their shouts.

For a group to be successful, it has to be cohesive, which means party members have to work together/listen to each other. My point was that that type of “zerker or I’ll kick you/trashtalk you for not knowing how to play the game” attitude simply doesn’t work for me, and if I’m the dungeon leader, I’ll kick someone who has that attitude. Basically, I’m agreeing with you.

For a group to be successful it needs the following:

1. Full zerker gear
2. A mixture of warriors, a mesmer and maybe a guardian
3. People who … know how to dodge
4. People who know the mechanics to an encounter

That’s about it. I’ve had cof speed groups who don’t even FGJ before the gate or slave driver (so I can signet for 24 might) or start dying at the acolytes, yet the fact that they tick 1, 2 and 4 means that we still breeze through it. I would rather take the zerker who does a bunch of damage and downs rather than some trash “tank” who doesn’t die but does jack all DPS.

To reply to colesy:

You have a right to your own opinions, and I respect that right. However, I feel like you may generalize a bit too much when it comes to certain statements.

Just because someone may play a support role does not mean they are bad. Some groups are new, inexperienced, or simply don’t have the DPS to down a boss before they themselves die. Why would I yell at them for being bad when I can give them a bit of extra healing using support weapons and get them through the dungeon? You were not personally in the group, and as such I would ask you to refrain from assuming everyone was bad and I was simply being bad along with them. If I had to run that dungeon a million times, I would do the exact same thing. I was playing a shout guardian at the time. I would prefer to contribute to DPS, but since I kept the group alive, I felt completely justified playing a supporting role. If you do not agree with me, that’s fine, but there’s no need to be rude or offensive about it.

And while for CoF all zerker gear and a certain group composition may be just fine, I would argue that as a whole, having a group that may not be optimal but communicates and has a good time is much more beneficial to everyone than having a surly group of 4 war 1 mes in zerker screaming at each other every time someone dies. I would still maintain that, for doing dungeons and group play as a whole, having a group full of people with good attitudes and finishing a run friendly individuals is always and will always be more satisfying to me than speedrunning a dungeon where noone talks except to be a kitten. Again, the method you use to run dungeons is your own and I respect that, but please try not to disparage someone just because you disagree with them.

I enjoy taking a new person through a dungeon and teaching them how to run it. I do not require everyone to be a certain class or have full zerker gear. Why would I? I don’t mind sacrificing a few minutes of efficiency to make sure everyone has a good time or gets that final dungeon run that they need. Your way of running dungeons may be different than mine, and I respect that. People like you push the edge of dungeon content and do valuable things for the community. However, that doesn’t mean you need to call anyone who disagrees with you ‘bad’ or ‘trash’. Excluding certain classes and there for entire groups of people from every dungeon that you run is most certainly not helpful to the community in any way.

Have a nice day sir.

Oh my, yes.
He’d of gotten the boot so fast he’d need to see a proctologist about my six inch heel.

Why would you subject yourself to such rotten company?

Just because someone may play a support role does not mean they are bad. Some groups are new, inexperienced, or simply don’t have the DPS to down a boss before they themselves die.

Actually, it does mean they’re bad because “support” as we know it barely exists in gw2. The most support a group needs are warrior banners, mesmer utility and maybe a DPS guardian which can function as a sort-of anchor. Even then, the mesmer is kitted full berserker.

If someone is inexperienced, they can actually still be bad, it’s just the difference of willing to learn or whether they refuse to which separates the newbies (who are good for the community) to the noobs (who are uninterested in learning anything better and remain bad).

Why would I yell at them for being bad when I can give them a bit of extra healing using support weapons and get them through the dungeon?

And I can give them healing with hold the line and virtue of courage while going at the same time mitigating damage with retreat, virtue of resolve and blind spam if there’s a section with a bunch of mobs rather than a boss. Damage mitigation > healing in this game, hence why people run full berserker and purely use dodges to mitigate rather than stacking heals (which only stack duration anyway, not intensity). Don’t you think it’s more efficient to kill the mobs faster with your greatsword than try to keep your team healed up, but make the fight last longer so you have to keep them alive longer? Especially against bosses, the amount of HP they rip off players makes healing a waste of time, you need purely to use damage mitigation with dodges and blocks to survive, healing doesn’t matter.

You were not personally in the group, and as such I would ask you to refrain from assuming everyone was bad and I was simply being bad along with them.

gw2 dungeons are a faceroll, you were playing a staff guard, were required to use TOME OF COURAGE and it was, if what you say is true, only your healing keeping your party afloat. It’s quite easy to see that everyone was bad.

If I had to run that dungeon a million times, I would do the exact same thing. I was playing a shout guardian at the time. I would prefer to contribute to DPS, but since I kept the group alive, I felt completely justified playing a supporting role. If you do not agree with me, that’s fine, but there’s no need to be rude or offensive about it.

I play a shout guardian too (though I rotate utility depending on the situation), going hold the line/retreat/save yourselves, that and the virtues is literally all the support you need. If you’re DPS spec, you’re spamming blinds through virtue of justice which function as “support” anyway, trust me. Though I never got that high myself, I heard the only place a tank guardian is ever used is in high level (40+) fractals, but beyond that it’s pretty much a waste.

And while for CoF all zerker gear and a certain group composition may be just fine, /snip/ please try not to disparage someone just because you disagree with them.

And I like it when I have a competent group which can have a good time as well. I’ve made a few friends doing COF and COE runs and because the dungeons always have moments of downtime there’s moments to chat, such as escorting Agent Spire to the room beyond the icebrood, some of us started talking about the legendaries we were working on. Yes, even scumbag elitist monsters like me are capable of functioning like human beings.

I enjoy taking a new person through a dungeon and teaching them how to run it. I do not require everyone to be a certain class or have full zerker gear. /snip/ Excluding certain classes and there for entire groups of people from every dungeon that you run is most certainly not helpful to the community in any way.

It’s not disagreeing with me that makes me call people bad players, it’s their skill which makes me refer to them as bad players. People who know anything about the dungeon meta and choose to use “support” builds are bad players. I once used a mixture of knight, berserker and valkyrie on my guard. Was I a bad player then? Yup, pretty much. All I need is full berserker. I don’t need to run 0-0-30-30-10 on my guard either, running 10-30-30-0-0 gives me great crit chance and damage, so all of the support elements which the honour line gives me are unneeded.

I actually took some guildies along yesterday to fractals of the mists and it was pretty fun (and it’s a wvw guild, so they definitely weren’t full berserker), but when it comes to running with randoms who ignore instructions and don’t communicate, no I won’t ever want to subject myself to that.

Oh my, yes.
He’d of gotten the boot so fast he’d need to see a proctologist about my six inch heel.
Why would you subject yourself to such rotten company?

And yet I’m not yelling at everyone in my dungeon group when they’re bad. When we got to mossman, I told the group “go full melee” and then “rally on the wolves” because the ranger was shortbow spamming , and then at jade maw I told the scepter guard “colossus reflects projectiles” – and they kept firing their scepter. Sure I’m forceful on the forum, but considering I went in to a fractal group and then started playing with them, knowing there was a ranger and they were mostly new to fractals (besides this other mesmer with us) and so most likely weren’t full berserker, why would I then yell at them for something I knew the answer to?

Colesy I feel your pain. I don’t think I can PuG anymore, I just, I don’t have the will to go on with this kitten anymore. Pugging 100% of the time has made me so hateful of other players to the point where I’m vote kicking at the first sign of trouble (e.g, Low achievement points, being a Ranger, etc.) Even then the garbage that spews itself into my party makes me feel ill.
I just had a 4 warrior/1 guard group wipe twice on CoFp2 defending Magg, how is that even possible!? Before I knew it I was the only one left, running for my life out the archway with my tail between my legs only to eat 62 perfectly synced Earthshakers from the army on my kitten . I RQ’D on the second wipe, didn’t even care that I was the instance owner. I simply cannot go on with PuG’s…. I simply can’t do it anymore.

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

swiftpaw.6397:

scepter camping guardian is Kony 2013

Can we PLEASE make “Scepter Camping Guardian” into a meme?

/Signed

As for melee’ing Mai…. I seriously doubt it wasn’t intended. It’s the first thing that came to my mind when facing her the first time (Ranger). Downed once, that was it * /e yawwwn * … nothing bad happened … Biggest problem honestly was keeping myself from Wasp’ing backwards off the stupid cliff. (they really need to reduce our jump back on that stupid attack, it’s like instant Longjump Olympics world record distance and some crap… totally unnecessary)

I dont mind guardians using scepter, and you dont have to stay in mai’s melee range to keep her from porting, just stay together and stay below 900ft.

Btw… PUG = pick-up group = a group of people that dont usually play together and found themselves using whatever lfg tool available, be it chat, website, ingame-lfg option or whatever.

4 guys from same guild and one random does not a PUG make, we discussed that one over the course of 3 mmos (DAOC, Aion, WAR) extensively.

As to behaviour… just an example… was running p4 Arah with 3 from one guild, one random and me, instance owner. Guildies did some huge mistages, we wiped a lot, Simin was horror (AFTER nerf……) and after we finally did it…. guildmembers kicked the other random because he was a “baddie” (quote). I left. Got flamed hard for it, had to block over 5 accounts ^^

Both hands arent enough to count all those times I was kicked at maw from guildgroups. My policy with guildgrps is to stay wary and either try to open instance or leave as soon as there are any kind of signs of “pr0” behaviour.

So you see, us “randoms” are also having our problems with guildgroups. Still, whoever has another one to agree, can kick, that’s the mechanic. Use it if you think you have to. Dont use it (and suffer) if you think you dont have to.

I have btw a list of guilds in a txt file on my desktop whose members kicked me without a reason. Another list with accountnames of players that where just… you know… those who think they are REALLY pro and then shout for condition removal as a guardian (still havent gotten over that one ^^).
That’s another way to handle this.

I’d just like to point out that staff guardians can bring incredible value to the group. Line of warding is excellent for the running that most groups do in dungeons plus a speed buff. Empower is great for raising the overall DPS of your group and with Altruistic healing it acts as a second huge heal by itself with each tick. You can often ignore your own heal skill!

There are also any number of situations where you just have to range stuff down and for that, scepters are invaluable not to mention in the immobilize. Dredge fractal boss anyone?

Anyone who says that staff or scepter on a guardian is bad has a lot to learn. And if they say they don’t have anything more to learn….well then you can figure out whether you want to have that kind of guy in your group at all.

Bottom line: Whether you’re new or elite. Whether you’re “pro” or just bad. Arrogance is not cool. I won’t kick you if you’re a bad player. I’ll kick you if you insult, abuse, or are arrogant. No matter what happens, no matter what anyone does, nothing justifies abusive language.

If you’re a bad player, that’s fine. But I have a problem if you don’t follow instructions. Usually I’m willing to give people the benefit of the doubt and assume that they forgot to see the chat screen. So I politely remind them to keep an eye out for it. It’ll take an incredible amount of bad play for me to kick you. But even the slightest abuse or arrogance is enough.

Priorities.

I’d just like to point out that staff guardians can bring incredible value to the group. Line of warding is excellent for the running that most groups do in dungeons plus a speed buff. Empower is great for raising the overall DPS of your group and with Altruistic healing it acts as a second huge heal by itself with each tick. You can often ignore your own heal skill!

Do you know what else is great for running? Swiftness, and evades. Oh, but staff can do swiftness! Well I’m pretty sure your warriors and mesmers can give group swiftness too so there’s no point. Line of warding, why would you bother with that?

Do you know also how to raise group DPS? Warriors going FGJ and the mesmer doubling the might with their signet. Unless you’re immediately switching the staff out (and I mean actually swapping by inventory, not just to your secondary weapon set), empower is trash and the staff is an awful weapon swap since it does terrible DPS.

There are also any number of situations where you just have to range stuff down and for that, scepters are invaluable not to mention in the immobilize. Dredge fractal boss anyone?

Okay, so in that case you have the scepter in your inventory. Greatsword and sword+focus are your best DPS weapons so you just bring in the scepter quickly for when range is 100% necessary, every other case you just melee.

Anyone who says that staff or scepter on a guardian is bad has a lot to learn. And if they say they don’t have anything more to learn….well then you can figure out whether you want to have that kind of guy in your group at all.

I’ve played my guardian for hundreds of hours. You basically do not need staff ever, and scepter is just for fringe cases where melee is actually punished by pretty much instant death.

And you’re right, having a guard in your group who knows their class well is totally not the kinda guy you want in a group.

colesy.8490:

I’d just like to point out that staff guardians can bring incredible value to the group. Line of warding is excellent for the running that most groups do in dungeons plus a speed buff. Empower is great for raising the overall DPS of your group and with Altruistic healing it acts as a second huge heal by itself with each tick. You can often ignore your own heal skill!

Do you know what else is great for running? Swiftness, and evades. Oh, but staff can do swiftness! Well I’m pretty sure your warriors and mesmers can give group swiftness too so there’s no point. Line of warding, why would you bother with that?

Do you know also how to raise group DPS? Warriors going FGJ and the mesmer doubling the might with their signet. Unless you’re immediately switching the staff out (and I mean actually swapping by inventory, not just to your secondary weapon set), empower is trash and the staff is an awful weapon swap since it does terrible DPS.

There are also any number of situations where you just have to range stuff down and for that, scepters are invaluable not to mention in the immobilize. Dredge fractal boss anyone?

Okay, so in that case you have the scepter in your inventory. Greatsword and sword+focus are your best DPS weapons so you just bring in the scepter quickly for when range is 100% necessary, every other case you just melee.

Anyone who says that staff or scepter on a guardian is bad has a lot to learn. And if they say they don’t have anything more to learn….well then you can figure out whether you want to have that kind of guy in your group at all.

I’ve played my guardian for hundreds of hours. You basically do not need staff ever, and scepter is just for fringe cases where melee is actually punished by pretty much instant death.

And you’re right, having a guard in your group who knows their class well is totally not the kinda guy you want in a group.

See here’s the problem. You’re entitled to your own opinions. That’s cool. No one is forcing you to run what you don’t want. The problem comes when you presume that your knowledge is absolute.

That’s arrogance. And it’s ok to show it in the forums cause it doesn’t affect me. If I see a hint of that arrogance in my party, it’s kick time.