Guild Wars 2

Update:
To recap the thread:
-it is inadvisable and possibly not necessary to completely rebuild the character to be PUG friendly. PUG adaptations should be in switching utility skills, carrying alternative gear and switching traits within the same trait point build.

-suggested builds:

Elementalist: Fresh air D/F build is PUG friendly. Suggested swapping out Fire V for II to use Lightning Hammer. Ice bow where it’s useful (AC)

Warrior: No changes, as the standard builds incorporate banners and sigil of battle options

Guardian: Obal’s hammer DPS builds

Mesmer: few changes, suggested spreads 0/30/0/25/15 or 10/20/0/25/15

Ranger: No changes, the group friendly Healing spring, Spotter and Frost spirit are already the ranger meta. Axe offhand can be carried for personal reflection when no one else brings any

Necromancer: Spoj’s DpS build

Thief: META still suggested. META already seems to incorporate extended stealth trait.

Engineer: no one plays…

*GW Guru builds not yet implemented, will add when I have time.
*Thanks to all who decided to contribute.

Original post:
We, (OK, you guys, actually, since I’m a lurker), have discussed the optimum, coordinated synnergy maximizing builds for months. They’re beautiful to behold. But now, I’d like to talk about another kind of build – the PUG-proof builds ( I wouldn’t expect this pit of vipers to consider PUG friendly as a term…).

For example, everyone knows the best way to stack might is to blast fire fields… but in a PUG environment, you might very well find a necromancer’s well, a thief’s gun #5 or a guardian’s Symbol of swiftness at the bottom of the field stack. In these situations, a guardian’s Empower, which works reliably and for two thirds of the time, suddenly becomes of some use. In my experience, you do get groups with perma might and fury and vulnerability – maybe once a week. The rest… you rarely see more than single digits might on the group, unless you alone bring it along.

So, thinking along these lines… what builds would you take? Even if it’s only a mental exercise for you… And please, don’t suggest SOLO builds, those are for a different kind of player.

Personally, I find at least that Warriors can still lug banners around, since they’re PUG-resistant. Guardian’s Empower and Line of warding see much more use. An Engineer’s Enhanced performance+Sigil of Battle+2x Rune of Altruism is also PUG-proof 9 perma-might, as is the vulnerability from blasts.

Thoughts?

Jure Simich.6154:

We, (OK, you guys, actually, since I’m a lurker), have discussed the optimum, coordinated synnergy maximizing builds for months. They’re beautiful to behold. But now, I’d like to talk about another kind of build – the PUG-proof builds ( I wouldn’t expect this pit of vipers to consider PUG friendly as a term…).

You should have stopped here. I’m sure you can guess why.

Hint: The moment you went on to mention Empower, you guaranteed that “this pit of vipers” would walk all over you.

With my guardian, it becomes hammertime! I use the hammer/greatsword build of Obal. This build does wonder.

I don’t need no empower and I’m in a mental state where I’m happy when I have 3 stacks of might (including my own), surprised when I get 6 and like Tex Avery’s wolf in front of Jessica Rabbit when I get 9.

The “pit of vipers” seems extremely proud of having that reputation, so I doubt they’ll mind. But, I’ m still hoping they can think out of the box, if they make the effort, and accept a change to the usual format of discussion here.

I’ve had to add “No Staffcamping Guards please” to my LFG posts. If they do that, I explain why I am booting and promptly remove them from the group.

Ken DeBoer.9268:

I’ve had to add “No Staffcamping Guards please” to my LFG posts. If they do that, I explain why I am booting and promptly remove them from the group.

I add “Undesired Builds/Classes will be kicked”. So I can kick any Bearbow, staff guard, shout warrior, cleric ele, necro, or PVT hero right out of my group with no questions asked.

I feel like the problem with making a “PUG-proof” build is that the universe can always make a puggier PUG.

DigitalKirin.9714:

I feel like the problem with making a “PUG-proof” build is that the universe can always make a puggier PUG.

This is a good point.

So basically, my pug proof build involves the guardian heal elite (lol) 30 arcana in elementalist for aoe heal and blast, and other changes that involve hurting my own play to help pugs.

I also try to not die in pugs, because I’m pretty sure if I die they’ll kick me. So I’m virtually invincible in pugs. If I just have 1 or 2 friends, I don’t even dodge, cause…. Why. (ERP in dungeons all day)

For eles, probably the fresh air d/f is most pug proof, or maybe staff. I still run s/f, but I’m so used to my might stacks being ruined by empower, my fire fields ruined by everything, my dps ruined by people stealing my hammer, etc.

A strong LFG description and “don’t touch tha hammah/FGS!”

I just run the 0/30/0/25/15 for mesmer like I usually would (or maybe 10/20/0/25/15). Mesmer is so easy to survive with it isn’t really a problem.

U cant go wrong with meta. Utility skills should be more selfish, dont could on pugs to give stealth, stability, reflects, ect.

^
I’ve been pugging arah with meta mesmer for some time and it works just fine, only problem is really slow kill times.

Don’t forget your sigils of battle and bring blink on Lupicus.

Well, just try not to corner yourself.

For example. Whatever the meta may actually be, I always keep a collection of weapons in my bag to swap around as needed. And I always end up swapping something at least once a dungeon, usually offhands.

Also consider how flexible your trait investments are.
My Ranger has to constantly swap Spotter in and out, to avoid overlapping with another ranger. But generally going into Marksmanship is pretty safe because there’s alot of great alternatives in there.

For my ele, a pug-proof build has perma vigor, focus off-hand, energy sigil, full defensive utilities and earth elemental. Also actively swapping traits for skipping trashes as well.

When in pug, vigor is your only friend.

Iris Ng.9845:

For my ele, a pug-proof build has perma vigor, focus off-hand, energy sigil, full defensive utilities and earth elemental. Also actively swapping traits for skipping trashes as well.

When in pug, vigor is your only friend.

Don’t forget your helmet, and chastity belt.

Jure,
I think that may be your answer. For the most part Still running the meta stuff if preferred. just Swapping some utility instead, such as Mesmer blink at Lupi vs something else. Just knowing the encounters and be able to slot things that YOU need, vs what the “team” will need.

Gaurdian : Obal’s hammer build is PuG “friendly”
Necromancer: Spoj’s DpS build is great all around, but also PuG friendly.
Warrior: …. (shrug) is Warrior.
Elementalist: seems to be Fresh Air is PuG friendly (quoting from above)
Thief: I would still run the regular.
Mesmer: 0,30,0,25,15 works for me, I just tend to slot different utilities (as been mentioned)
Engineer: I don’ t play enough to have any viable advice
Ranger: might get tricky. the only think I can think of would be to take Spotter and Frost, but maybe also Run the Axe off hand trait for personal reflection. (or at least that is what I have been doing. ) And run Sword/ Horn and axe off hand on swap.

(is babbling, and will shut up now, )

Cat Has Ducks.1982:

Iris Ng.9845:

For my ele, a pug-proof build has perma vigor, focus off-hand, energy sigil, full defensive utilities and earth elemental. Also actively swapping traits for skipping trashes as well.

When in pug, vigor is your only friend.

Don’t forget your helmet, and chastity belt.

I try NOT. Not. not to understand the subtleties underlying your words. Those seems to direct at me and not to answer the OP’s question, hmm…?

So here, helmed and fully clothed. Satisfied yet?

Edit: whatever, beautiful internet stranger.

Iris Ng.9845:

I try not to understand the subtleties underlying your words. Those seems to direct at me and not to answer the OP’s question, hmm…?

So here, helmed and fully clothed. Satisfied yet?

Don’t read so deep into things. I’m too use to making jokes to a very small audience, so the true point of my posts may get lost in translation. Its not meant to rustle your jimmies, I promise.

Ropechef.6192:

Jure,
I think that may be your answer. For the most part Still running the meta stuff if preferred. just Swapping some utility instead, such as Mesmer blink at Lupi vs something else. Just knowing the encounters and be able to slot things that YOU need, vs what the “team” will need.

Gaurdian : Obal’s hammer build is PuG “friendly”
Necromancer: Spoj’s DpS build is great all around, but also PuG friendly.
Warrior: …. (shrug) is Warrior.
Elementalist: seems to be Fresh Air is PuG friendly (quoting from above)
Thief: I would still run the regular.
Mesmer: 0,30,0,25,15 works for me, I just tend to slot different utilities (as been mentioned)
Engineer: I don’ t play enough to have any viable advice
Ranger: might get tricky. the only think I can think of would be to take Spotter and Frost, but maybe also Run the Axe off hand trait for personal reflection. (or at least that is what I have been doing. ) And run Sword/ Horn and axe off hand on swap.

(is babbling, and will shut up now, )

Rope, Fresh Air D/F is indeed pug friendly. Swapping out Fire V for II to use Lightning Hammer is also good in some situations. Staff/Ice bow is also good too, but the ele needs to be mindful about his/her position as not to be too close (risk getting one-shot) or too far (waste of Stone Splinters). I usually swap out for staff during Urban Battleground and Molten Boss duo fractals.

While I love the original 30/30/10/0/0 for damage in a friendly, optimized group, I’m using 30/30/0/0/10 on daily basis as a lesser strong alternative but slightly more flexible in:

• Arah skipping
• Lupi melee
• Fractal level 50
• Pug
• Carry Range Pug
• Protect Melee Pug

Cat Has Ducks.1982:

Ken DeBoer.9268:

I’ve had to add “No Staffcamping Guards please” to my LFG posts. If they do that, I explain why I am booting and promptly remove them from the group.

I add “Undesired Builds/Classes will be kicked”. So I can kick any Bearbow, staff guard, shout warrior, cleric ele, necro, or PVT hero right out of my group with no questions asked.

Mother of god I am so sick of PVT heroes.

I support the hell out of you!

Jure, this person has a list of near-meta, PUG-friendlier builds (Nov. 2013).

In regard to their guardian hammer build link (Brazil’s, from June 2013), obal has more current builds, including Balanced/PUG, Balanced/DPS, and Max DPS options, here.

Just a starting point.

For engi, the meta is also pug friendly (30/30/0/10/0). Perma vigor and still useful at range. A

Th elitism of high-end dungeoneering, which I like, makes me feel bad when I pug, because I know it’s pretty much staple as a Warrior, for instance, to bring FGJ and Disc, or even both banners. But you know what? Some groups, that isn’t even an option, they’re so rancid.

Admittedly, I don’t know every tell, but im pretty solid for the important ones. But as an example, Champ Golem before Nokk on SE1. In my ideal situation, I wouldn’t even need to bring Balanced Stance, but more than BS, pugs are so terrible with pulls, reflects, Aegis, blind, add management, I nearly feel required to bring Balanced AND Endure Pain nearly every run. And the Golem trio? Well, while I may think stance dancing is fun and somewhat overpowered on it’s own, I shouldn’t have tobring Defiant, Endure, Balanced, every pug just to make sure one of the Golems will die before they wipe and I skirt away.

Pugs are pretty fun though, I guess I don’t really mind.

Tierce.5370:

Jure, this person has a list of near-meta, PUG-friendlier builds (Nov. 2013).

In regard to their guardian hammer build link (Brazil’s, from June 2013), obal has more current builds, including Balanced/PUG, Balanced/DPS, and Max DPS options, here.

Just a starting point.

Thank you, this is what I’m currently looking for!

Isn’t a PUG proof build an oxymoron?

Are we talking pug EASE or pug EFFECTIVENESS? Because they’re two different things:
Best to worst:
Ease (full clerics):
- Bearbow ranger
- Staff guardian
- DS/staff necro
- GS mesmer

Effectiveness:
1) Grenade engineer
2) Phantasm mesmer
3) Hammer guardian
4) LH or staff ele

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Are we talking pug EASE or pug EFFECTIVENESS? Because they’re two different things:
Best to worst:
Ease (full clerics):
- Bearbow ranger
- Staff guardian
- DS/staff necro
- GS mesmer

Effectiveness:
1) Grenade engineer
2) Phantasm mesmer
3) Hammer guardian
4) LH or staff ele

It’s on the list! ( ; – ; )

1) updated the original posting with contributions

2)Since apparently no one plays engineers here, here’s what I try to make work:

30 30 0 10 0 trait spread, vigor on swiftness trait gives lots of vigor needed for the longer PUG fight times.

The Explosives trait line leaves several possible configurations:

Long ranged: full zerker, +10% explosions, Grenadier.

Stacking: +10% explodions, replace grenadier with larger explosions and go for bomb kit.

Reliable might stacking: zerker with two runes of altruism, a sigil of battle weapon and Enhanced performance instead of grenadier to grant low power groups 9+ stacks of might. For long range, leave in grenadier. For stacking, replace it with 10% explosions trait and run bombs. Also, try to blast bombs for extra might (Healing turret, BoB, Elixir gun’s acid blast).

Jure Simich.6154:

1) updated the original posting with contributions

2)Since apparently no one plays engineers here, here’s what I try to make work:

30 30 0 10 0 trait spread, vigor on swiftness trait gives lots of vigor needed for the longer PUG fight times.

The Explosives trait line leaves several possible configurations:

Long ranged: full zerker, +10% explosions, Grenadier.

Stacking: +10% explodions, replace grenadier with larger explosions and go for bomb kit.

Reliable might stacking: zerker with two runes of altruism, a sigil of battle weapon and Enhanced performance instead of grenadier to grant low power groups 9+ stacks of might. For long range, leave in grenadier. For stacking, replace it with 10% explosions trait and run bombs. Also, try to blast bombs for extra might (Healing turret, BoB, Elixir gun’s acid blast).

Grenades are WAY better for pugs due to the extra vuln they stack. Bombs are for limited circumstances where you absolutely must get that extra 10% DPS and vuln isn’t an issue.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Best to worst:

Effectiveness:
1) Grenade engineer
2) Phantasm mesmer
3) Hammer guardian
4) LH or staff ele

6u4n6m47h.

Actual truth:
1) S/D (+ LH) Ele, you can’t expect anyone to stand in Focus’ fire field, with Persisting Flames.
2) S/D (+ LH) Ele, without Persisting Flames.
3) 30/25/0/0/15 Warrior, Forceful Greatsword. (Some parties have together literally a fifth of a good warrior’s damage output.)
4) Depending on circumstances, a mesmer, a guardian or an engineer.

Jure Simich.6154:

The “pit of vipers” seems extremely proud of having that reputation, so I doubt they’ll mind. But, I’ m still hoping they can think out of the box, if they make the effort, and accept a change to the usual format of discussion here.

Heya, I see you hoping on the forums good luck with that mate! And since you’re a lurker (pretty much like me) I’m sure you’re ready for the bashing these guys will bring. Great post and keep up the good work.

Still playing on the Engie?

P.S. I miss the CoE runs we were doing back in the day (before they nerfed Alpha’s HP, and before “stacking”, both of those made that dungeon pretty much unintersting for me atm)

Dub.1273:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Best to worst:

Effectiveness:
1) Grenade engineer
2) Phantasm mesmer
3) Hammer guardian
4) LH or staff ele

6u4n6m47h.

Actual truth:
1) S/D (+ LH) Ele, you can’t expect anyone to stand in Focus’ fire field, with Persisting Flames.
2) S/D (+ LH) Ele, without Persisting Flames.
3) 30/25/0/0/15 Warrior, Forceful Greatsword. (Some parties have together literally a fifth of a good warrior’s damage output.)
4) Depending on circumstances, a mesmer, a guardian or an engineer.

What good is a warrior going to do in a pug?

- Personal might stacking > group might stacking in all cases, even if that might is going to bads. An engineer or ele stacks just as much might on everyone as the ele does on himself and also give other buffs.
- Banners are useless in pugs because pugs don’t pick them up. That means you’re limited to choosing between Strength which is a comparably small boost or Discipline, which won’t even affect pugs that much since none of them have any crit chance.
- Warrior has crap survivability. You’re going to be dropping super fast since pugs don’t have the DPS to enable you to stay up 100% without any defensive skills.

Also the DPS differential between LH and staff is pretty big and thanks to all the extra blast finishers they keep giving eles, the actual difference in amount of might stacked is actually not that big. An S/D gets like 6-7 blasts per rotation while a staff gets 5-6. The primary advantage to the LH is the blindspam if anything.

Edited by Moderator

Fasalina.6571:

Jure Simich.6154:

The “pit of vipers” seems extremely proud of having that reputation, so I doubt they’ll mind. But, I’ m still hoping they can think out of the box, if they make the effort, and accept a change to the usual format of discussion here.

Heya, I see you hoping on the forums good luck with that mate! And since you’re a lurker (pretty much like me) I’m sure you’re ready for the bashing these guys will bring. Great post and keep up the good work.

Still playing on the Engie?

P.S. I miss the CoE runs we were doing back in the day (before they nerfed Alpha’s HP, and before “stacking”, both of those made that dungeon pretty much unintersting for me atm)

Fas, ol’ buddy! Been a while! Sure, I’m still playing. Every profession, really, and since I’m working on the Emperor title, I’ve been running dungeons all the time, which is why I decided to speak up a bit.

I think PUGs should be sentenced to watch these guys play, and these guys should be sentenced to forced PUGs

Anyway, not really sure how to implement the guru builds… a lot to read…

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

- Warrior has crap survivability. You’re going to be dropping super fast since pugs don’t have the DPS to enable you to stay up 100% without any defensive skills.

Not going into detail on the other kitten you wrote, just answering this.
Just because you can’t even range the grawl shaman on your warrior, that doesn’t mean that other’s can’t. I did like 4 grawl fractals in my life and have no problems melee’ing on my warrior.
Tl:dr: You play bad, warriors have arguably the greatest survivability and probably depend the least on the party to maintain an acceptable damage output. Banner of Discipline is a huge buff, Strength isn’t as bad as you make it look (Don’t expect pugs to stack might, but expect them to stack vulnerability. Basically any damage build inflicts such.) and the 8 second fury combined with 3 might stacks and some vulnerability come in handy.

Just look at this from anothers person point of view. For one, there’s you, a guy who has made hillarious claims (some of them being true, some of them being false) but absolutely no experience in speedruns, hell, even failed the trial on a guild that I won’t name here.
On the other side there’s me, being the one providing tactics, including but not limited to team composition, for the majority of all speedruns we, as rT, have done. I have done various encounter solo’s, including world bosses like temple priests.

The point behind this isn’t claiming myself to be the best player around, but to show how weird this discussion must look for anyone with at least a few braincells.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

- Warrior has crap survivability. You’re going to be dropping super fast since pugs don’t have the DPS to enable you to stay up 100% without any defensive skills.

I don’t even know what to say. “Warrior has crap survivability,” WHAT? …. Warrior is ridiculously easy to survive on. I don’t know what game you’re playing, but in GW2, Warrior is easy mode.

Dub.1273:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

- Warrior has crap survivability. You’re going to be dropping super fast since pugs don’t have the DPS to enable you to stay up 100% without any defensive skills.

Not going into detail on the other kitten you wrote, just answering this.
Just because you can’t even range the grawl shaman on your warrior, that doesn’t mean that other’s can’t. I did like 4 grawl fractals in my life and have no problems melee’ing on my warrior.
Tl:dr: You play bad, warriors have arguably the greatest survivability and probably depend the least on the party to maintain an acceptable damage output. Banner of Discipline is a huge buff, Strength isn’t as bad as you make it look (Don’t expect pugs to stack might, but expect them to stack vulnerability. Basically any damage build inflicts such.) and the 8 second fury combined with 3 might stacks and some vulnerability come in handy.

Just look at this from anothers person point of view. For one, there’s you, a guy who has made hillarious claims (some of them being true, some of them being false) but absolutely no experience in speedruns, hell, even failed the trial on a guild that I won’t name here.
On the other side there’s me, being the one providing tactics, including but not limited to team composition, for the majority of all speedruns we, as rT, have done. I have done various encounter solo’s, including world bosses like temple priests.

The point behind this isn’t claiming myself to be the best player around, but to show how weird this discussion must look for anyone with at least a few braincells.

The obvious flame baiting aside, I’d like to note that absolutely nothing you said has anything to do with pugs. Carrying a pug and playing in an organized speedclear guild completely different ends of the spectrum.

A pug group:
- Takes longer to kill everything, meaning you can’t rely on burst-and-forget tactics. You need sustain both in terms of DPS and debuffs.
- You lack CC and pugs usually don’t stack, meaning you WILL get hit. Bosses usually have evadeable mechanics, but a lot of them still do unavoidable damage, and mob damage is almost always unavoidable without blind.
- You can’t rely on pugs to “help” you do things. Stuff like pre-fight might stacking on a single fire field just doesn’t happen. That means you can only stack on what you bring yourself.

For those reasons, warrior is weak in a pug because they lack effective CC. They can pump their own DPS decently using stuff like Signet of Rage + FGJ but their group utility is greatly diminished. Your group contribution is, at most, FGJ, one banner, and incidental vuln from Cyclone Axe and GS auto.

And yeah, warrior survivability affects that too, having a giant health pool with no way to refill is it is not nearly as good as a mesmer or guardian, who just avoids taking damage altogether and can burst heal to full if they do get hit.

For engineer: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/GUIDE-The-Meta-rific-Dungeoneer

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

And yeah, warrior survivability affects that too, having a giant health pool with no way to refill is it is not nearly as good as a mesmer or guardian, who just avoids taking damage altogether and can burst heal to full if they do get hit.

You must be playing 6u4n6w4r5 2.

As for the other stuff, I know you solely pug (as theres no organized group that would like to play with you?) but you seem to forget that many people do so aswell. I’m one of all people being the least reliant on “burst and forget” mechanics you might find.

Just a quick comparison between engineer and warrior, what they bring to the party.
Warrior: Strong personal damage, not relying on anything, easy to play, decent vulnerability, 3 might, 8/25s fury, a banner of discipline, banner of strength, partially perma fury and another 3 stacks of might. Blast finishers, weakness, vigor, swiftness, soft-cc removal, very good CC abilities on trash, by far best sustain (high HP, more evasion mechanics than any other profession, heavy armor, highest HP/s heal in the game, defiant stance, highest out of combat mobility in the game.

Engineer: Strong vulnerability stacks, strong selfheal, decent party heal, on cost of vuln some might stacks (blast finishers), low duration high cooldown blind, no useful hard CC, decent soft-cc, a bit stealth, kitten personal damage but also good sustain.

Wth guang. Warrior is probably the strongest and safest solo class to play. Its easily the best pug class simply because its dps is so independant from your group. You can carry your group by pure brute force. And sure warrior lacks some cc. But mace 5 is usually enough. Or you can just take gs, axe sword and have a breeze of a time with so many evades and a nice block.

If im going to pug fractals or something. I almost always go warrior because I dont want to be stuck with bad players on a class with such a tiny hp pool and unforgiving defense. Atleast with warrior i can make mistakes and still survive no matter how bad my group is (Try mossman on an ele where the pugs dont dodge a single axe).

spoj.9672:

Wth guang. Warrior is probably the strongest and safest solo class to play. Its easily the best pug class simply because its dps is so independant from your group. You can carry your group by pure brute force. And sure warrior lacks some cc. But mace 5 is usually enough. Or you can just take gs, axe sword and have a breeze of a time with so many evades and a nice block.

If im going to pug fractals or something. I almost always go warrior because I dont want to be stuck with bad players on a class with such a tiny hp pool and unforgiving defense. Atleast with warrior i can make mistakes and still survive no matter how bad my group is (Try mossman on an ele where the pugs dont dodge a single axe).

I did Mossman with pugs on my ele. I think I have to keep up all my 3 blocks, invulns and swirling wind at all times. One of the bosses which has my full attention in surviving. I like the challenge though.

Yeah its possible but with warrior its so much easier. Which is why im confused at guangs no survivabiliy and bad pug class statement.

He might be on a totally new level of sarcasm, I’m betting a copper.

I don’t exactly get it either.

[Anti-Infraction-Shield-ON]

Imbued Grawl Shaman might have roasted some parts of guang, it shot love arrows into his head too often. :/

[Anti-Infraction-Shield-OFF]

@Mods, please do not take this serious. I’m well aware this might be seen as offending, while in fact it’s an allusion to an insider joke.

After-effect of Valentines Day?

It’s a mystery.

Also solo engie > solo warrior, no debate there. And solo engie buffs > solo warrior buffs, no debate there either. I guess warriors are easier to play at a lower level in the sense that you can facetank more stuff before you die, so you don’t HAVE to dodge, but if that’s what you’re worried about, bearbow > either..

I personally die substantially more on my warrior than on any other class if no other reason than that they have no access to vigor and no defensive cooldowns other than Whirlwind Attack, but we’ve already gone over that.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

- Personal might stacking > group might stacking in all cases, even if that might is going to bads. An engineer or ele stacks just as much might on everyone as the ele does on himself and also give other buffs.

It’s hard to take you seriously when you don’t even know how to use > and <

hybrid.5027:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

- Personal might stacking > group might stacking in all cases, even if that might is going to bads. An engineer or ele stacks just as much might on everyone as the ele does on himself and also give other buffs.

It’s hard to take you seriously when you don’t even know how to use > and <

Blame phone typing for that.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

What good is a warrior going to do in a pug?

- Personal might stacking > group might stacking in all cases, even if that might is going to bads. An engineer or ele stacks just as much might on everyone as the ele does on himself and also give other buffs.

Knowing Guang, the renowned hater of Warrior, he was meant to type <

Why on earth would you want to boost DPS of your crappy Bearbows/Cleric Guardians/GS Mesmers than pump out your own personal DPS to carry.

But that said, it’s better to just kick the bads and find players who play at a good level for PUGs.

Warriors don’t need vigour, they have 4.5 dodges/20s while perma vigour ele has 4/20s. Let’s not include block on 15s cooldown or 50% uptime of party wide vigour + weakness that actually helps (50% chance not to be one shotted as ele in fotm).

The only reason why you could die substantially more on a warrior is the fact that all other builds you most likely play (engi, staff ele) are ranged. Mystery solved.