Guild Wars 2

So this fight has turned into a easy long an boring fight to a hard , long boring fight. What was your reasoning in increasing the range on the destroyer? Prior to the change we had 2 ranged sit outside of his shield while 3 hit the Cryo-lasers. Now it is much harder to do because of the attacks that he does. I’m all for challenge in a boss fight, but this is just ridiculous.

Remember, no fun.

Ooh, I haven’t had a chance to check this out, but I want to. What is the Evolved Destroyer’s behavior now?

Can’t afk shoot anymore? How horrible!

Wethospu.6437:

Can’t afk shoot anymore? How horrible!

The problem is his ridiculously high HP, genius.

Increased range doesn’t make its HP higher.

Wethospu.6437:

Increased range doesn’t make its HP higher.

Increased range makes him even more tedious than he already is. If he had lower HP this wouldn’t be a problem.

Iehova.9518:

Wethospu.6437:

Can’t afk shoot anymore? How horrible!

The problem is his ridiculously high HP, genius.

The truth is the people on the cannons are supposed to jump down on the floating platforms avoiding the periodic “into the lava” knockbacks to get close to the boss, DPS a little jumping back and forth as needed, then going back up to the laser to activate it again (laser takes 15s to break the shield then 15s later it’s back up) and repeat that until victory.

Now, what can go wrong here?
- Falling into the lava and getting killed with very little hope of getting rezed cause the place hurts.
- Walking from faaaar away to come back to the fight.
- Walking through the lair of the ultimate life form : the Champion Destroyer Crab. Run for your lives! Thank god this monster doesn’t try to take over the world or else we’ll all be doomed.

Iehova.9518:

Wethospu.6437:

Increased range doesn’t make its HP higher.

Increased range makes him even more tedious than he already is. If he had lower HP this wouldn’t be a problem.

Yes, more tedious because you can’t afk-shoot.

Wethospu.6437:

Iehova.9518:

Wethospu.6437:

Increased range doesn’t make its HP higher.

Increased range makes him even more tedious than he already is. If he had lower HP this wouldn’t be a problem.

Yes, more tedious because you can’t afk-shoot.

AFK shooting doesn’t make the boss less tedious.

Increased range only affects afk-shooting (you can still melee and move while shooting). If AFK shooting doesn’t make it less tedious then lack of AFK shooting won’t make it more tedious. So increased range didn’t make it more tedious.
Either I’m missing something (likely because people are so bad with describing situations) or you can’t make up your mind.

Gonna try this today. Usually I’m taking fully traited engineer mortar while a ranger is attacking and kiting his fire fangs, so mortar is safe

Health of this boss is still ridiculous. Skill #5 of mortar is hitting for 5x 1500-1600 and health bar doesn’t decrease even by single pixel

Wethospu.6437:

Increased range only affects afk-shooting (you can still melee and move while shooting). If AFK shooting doesn’t make it less tedious then lack of AFK shooting won’t make it more tedious.

The tediousness of this boss is unrelated to whether someone AFK shoots or not. Is this really this hard to understand?

Besides, with the shield recharging every nanosecond it’s very hard to press F, shoot and go AFK. Did you even do this boss?

Agreed. This boss has way too much HP. Very, very tedious.

Even fighting “normally” takes forever.

I think this path is only there for the achievement. No one sane would want to make it again. Only 2 can fight, shield is down for short time, you need to turn off auto attack, dodge rocks while your hp is going down from conditions and when you die it’s long way back.

I would gladly see any video with people doing it fast now.

Iehova.9518:

Wethospu.6437:

Increased range only affects afk-shooting (you can still melee and move while shooting). If AFK shooting doesn’t make it less tedious then lack of AFK shooting won’t make it more tedious.

The tediousness of this boss is unrelated to whether someone AFK shoots or not. Is this really this hard to understand?

Besides, with the shield recharging every nanosecond it’s very hard to press F, shoot and go AFK. Did you even do this boss?

As I said please make up your mind. But it is good that we agree that increased range doesn’t make it more tedious.

And yes, you can’t literally go afk (unless macro). But standing on one place spamming one button is quite same.

I did this with a PUG post-patch last night. One person ended up leaving partway into that room, no doubt after realizing that killing the boss would take some absurd length of time. Honestly, it was too long before, now it just makes people avoid the path. It’s a good thing they supposedly fixed path 1, or the only one people would even bother with is path 2.

Wethospu.6437:

As I said please make up your mind. But it is good that we agree that increased range doesn’t make it more tedious.

Make up my mind on what? He’s just as tedious and even more annoying now.

And yes, you can’t literally go afk (unless macro).

Thanks Captain.

But standing on one place spamming one button is quite same.

No it’s not.

stof.9341:

- Walking through the lair of the ultimate life form : the Champion Destroyer Crab. Run for your lives! Thank god this monster doesn’t try to take over the world or else we’ll all be doomed.

lol, I couldn’t agree more. The run back past that beast is much worse than actually dying in the lava. In fact THAT thing should be the boss and they could cut out the giant destroyer altogether. This would increase the challenge of the path and shorten it at the same time!

CoE is one of my favorite dungeons, I hope it can get some love. Shorten paths 2 and 3 by 10-15 minutes and I think we’d see more people running it.

Hilariously, the Crab will now follow you into the other boss room, or at least it did with our group. We were forced to go back and kill it altogether.

Anyway, I think most peoples’ complaints about the Destroyer boss is that it’s so repetitive. It’s not that an overwhelming number of people don’t have the skill to do it if they try, despite what so many elitists among us will be quick to assert time and time again. It’s the fact that you’re basically repeating the exact same action every 15 seconds or so for an amount of time that makes players begin to wonder how much longer they have to keep dragging out the fight.

A lot of people want their dungeons to be active. Subject Alpha has some problems, but it can at least be said that he’s more…interactive? Destroyer is less fun and more “oh, time to drag myself through this again”.

Pretty sure the Destroyer fight without the canons but with more spells thrown at the players along with the need to avoid the periodic spikes from above would be enough for an interesting fight. Just keep the lasers and instead of making them work on a timer, make them work on HP threshold.

For example, at 75%, 50% and 25% HP, the destroyer creates the bubble that starts healing him quicker and quicker?

So they made the boring & tedious boss even more boring & tedious than before? Great job.

What exactly has changed? Can you still stand on the edge after the shield goes back up and wait for the next laser barrage without drawing aggro? I usually melee it when I’m on my Warrior or Thief, but I still stand just outside the shield rather than make the jumps over and over again (it’s not like it’s hard to, but having to jump up and down over and over again just takes more time, period). On my Ele I just hit it from the centered cannon lol, can drop like 10-15k fairly easily while still firing the laser, so 2 others can go down instead without losing damage.

If he continues to aggro you while the shield is still up and you’re on the edge, then… gross, is all I really have to say.

I would be all for removing the ability to stand on the edge of his platform if the shield stayed down longer and the boss was actually more kittening interesting. Right now, it’s easy as balls, but insanely repetitive.

“Shorten paths 2 and 3 by 10-15 minutes and I think we’d see more people running it.”

I think path 2 is fine in terms of time. What’s wrong with it? If you really want to speed through it, you can skip through most of the risen after destroying the lasers. Especially easy if you have a thief or something to mass drop aggro.

Iehova.9518:

Wethospu.6437:

As I said please make up your mind. But it is good that we agree that increased range doesn’t make it more tedious.

Make up my mind on what? He’s just as tedious and even more annoying now.

And yes, you can’t literally go afk (unless macro).

Thanks Captain.

But standing on one place spamming one button is quite same.

No it’s not.

Do I really have to quote what you earlier said:

Increased range makes him even more tedious than he already is. If he had lower HP this wouldn’t be a problem.

You shouldn’t be surprised I get confused when you say stuff like this.

Anyways, I know I’m wasting my breath because you clearly want to this be an issue (your lack of any argumentation and “funny” comments kind of reveals that, sorry).

I take it as Wethospu is trying to defend possibly the worst GW2 boss fight ever? If you want arguments as to why it’s a really boring and tedious fight? Here they are

1) HUGE HP Pool. It ruins even beautiful fights, let alone this crappy one.
2) For 3 players (the majority of a party), the fight is nothing but press 1 every 15 seconds. For 10 minutes. Exciting, eh? *
3) The difficulty is overtuned without what you call afk-shooting. Having challenging content is fine, having a dungeon path that throws at you a very hard boss amidst quite easy fights is not.
4) The waypoint is way too far for no apparent reason other than to slow you down. The HP pool doesn’t regenerate even if you completely wipe so it’s not like it makes the fight harder, it just makes every death prolong much more the boring fight.

You could argue that the people shooting the cannons should jump on the platforms, throw in pot shots and then back off but thruth nobody will ever do it beside really coordinated/good guild runs. Try to coordinate the cannons with an average PUG if they have to fight and risk dying inbetween every volley.*

Now, were you asking me questions on how to make this boring mess more interesting or at least less frustrating?

This already was one of the worst (as in: most boring and tedious) boss fights in the game, and has now been updated to be even worse? Isn’t that just great. -sigh-

Wethospu.6437:

Can’t afk shoot anymore? How horrible!

AKA:
I have never done dungeons as a serious dungeon runner, but I can comment on those that do!

The fight sucked the way it is structured. It always has. Making it harder isn’t fixing the problem…

Wethospu.6437:

Anyways, I know I’m wasting my breath because you clearly want to this be an issue (your lack of any argumentation and “funny” comments kind of reveals that, sorry).

I see my mutually exclusive posts. So let’s end it at: Just as tedious, even more annoying.

This is an issue because he’s pretty much the worst boss in the game. If you had done him you’d know.

I’m not defending this boss fight, I’m defending this change. Evolved Destroyer has plenty of issues which I agree, however increased range hardly makes them worse.
If increased range forces people to actually play the game then it is a step in the right direction. Personally I welcome any change making dungeons harder (meleeing Destroyer was already quite easy).
Yes, it sucks that they didn’t fix actual issues. But those fixes can be the next step.

Iehova.9518:

Wethospu.6437:

Anyways, I know I’m wasting my breath because you clearly want to this be an issue (your lack of any argumentation and “funny” comments kind of reveals that, sorry).

I see my mutually exclusive posts. So let’s end it at: Just as tedious, even more annoying.

This is an issue because he’s pretty much the worst boss in the game. If you had done him you’d know.

Sure, moving on.

Wethospu.6437:

I’m not defending this boss fight, I’m defending this change.

You are defending an unnecessary change to an already annoying boss.

There are only two possible welcome changes to that guy:
1. Shield needs to be broken only once.
2. 50% HP nerf.

Wethospu.6437:

Yes, it sucks that they didn’t fix actual issues. But those fixes can be the next step.

Because actually fixing the game people play. That stuff is a 2nd priority. Logic FTW.

Iehova.9518:

You are defending an unnecessary change to an already annoying boss.

Yep, I know I’m probably in minority. But I will run this path now and see if that changes my opinion.

Robert Hrouda.1327:

As for his health, he already has half the normal health of other legendary creatures, and his toughness is scaled down as well. I don’t imagine I will lower his health down any further since I have watched groups kill him in just 2 tries.

Tell me, how long did those 2 tries take the group to accomplish?

I think he means they did it in 2 rotations of firing the turrets.

When you actually have full groups geared to do damage and actually know what they’re doing, the “huge healthbars” of most stuff don’t become huge anymore. Running around with 25 stacks of might and plopping 25 stacks of vuln down while running in full or near full dps gear burns things quick, and dishing out constant weakness/protection lets you live easily. You can easily drop most bosses absurdly fast. The problem is that even most guild groups don’t know how to run dungeons very well, and in pugs it only happens very very rarely.

The huge love of P/V/T gear a while back in these very forums (and the fact that everyone said “if you’re a glass cannon, you’re doing it wrong”) just made it all the more obvious. Yes, being able to live a really long time is nice in dungeons, and you can certainly take the approach of just being able to outlive stuff. But its certainly possible to go the other direction and just kill everything fast enough that it doesn’t even matter.

Proper weakness/protection/skills go much further in keeping you and your party alive than your gear does, anyways.

That said, for most pugs and such, Evolved Destroyer will probably always be slow and boring as molasses unless some core mechanics about it are actually changed.

Ok, run finished. Died few times trying stuff and because of lack of experience.
Gunners just need to move a bit now. When down there you need to move a bit too, it is fairly risky so getting skills to help is suggested. As a Warrior with Mace/Sword I could just tank every attack without moving an inch. And still moving wasn’t that hard.

Also you can just do it normally -> all in DPS.

Robert, any chance to move last WP to that area? Running doesn’t really have a purpose when fight can’t reset.

So you actually lowered its HP in this patch? That’s great news! Why wasn’t the change listed in the patch notes? Everyone loves detailed patch notes ( despite maybe the guy/gal who has to write them? )! I still don’t like how the cannon mechanic plays out ( boring to stay put ) but it’s definitely a huge step in the right direction! Or am I misunderstanding and is the HP unchanged from the last time I fought the boss ( around 1 month ago )? Because last time it wasn’t close to 2 tries at all, more like 20.

@ omgwtflolbll
I agree with you, but then we start talking about min/maxing and classes ( Hammer Guardian and Warrior make for huge amounts of protection/might i.e. ) being required for a team composition. Should we really balance explorable dungeons around the performance of min/maxers? I don’t think so.

Robert Hrouda.1327:

the reason I had to increase his range was due to an exploit players could take advantage of to afk during the fight with auto attack on and easily win it.

As for his health, he already has half the normal health of other legendary creatures, and his toughness is scaled down as well. I don’t imagine I will lower his health down any further since I have watched groups kill him in just 2 tries.

Would it be possible to make his shield go down for a longer period of time? Like to make it worth for people on lasers going down there to hit the boss and not get kicked out of the platform after 2 seconds? That’s what makes this boss so godkitten terrible. Increase its HP if you have to, but at least make it worth it for people on lasers to go down to help fight.

Wolfheart.1938:

Should we really balance explorable dungeons around the performance of min/maxers? I don’t think so.

This – and I love to optimize my build, even.

I think the odds of me finding a PUG which can: a) have the right combination of DPS, b) have access to both Explorable mode and an uncontested dungeon, and c) be willing to play the dungeon in the first place…is pretty low, sadly. I have plenty of contacts who run dungeons, along with their contacts. It’s still nearly impossible to find a group that satisfies all of these conditions.

When I finally do get to run the dungeon, I’d just as soon avoid this boss altogether because it’s not fun. It’s just really long, especially when people have to start running nine million miles from the nearest WP for no discernible reason.

Robert Hrouda.1327:

As for his health, he already has half the normal health of other legendary creatures, and his toughness is scaled down as well. I don’t imagine I will lower his health down any further since I have watched groups kill him in just 2 tries.

List group comp please with build set. Was this a completely random pug? Was it all dungeon masters? Was anyone new? Were you all DPS builds (as getting 5 competent DPS builds through a complete PUG’s is a REALLY good achievement).

Wonder if anyone in that group was condition build? Prolly not.

Robert Hrouda.1327:

the reason I had to increase his range was due to an exploit players could take advantage of to afk during the fight with auto attack on and easily win it.

As for his health, he already has half the normal health of other legendary creatures, and his toughness is scaled down as well. I don’t imagine I will lower his health down any further since I have watched groups kill him in just 2 tries.

your math isnt considering a lot of things as you describe it.

If he has half the health
but is invulnerable half the time

then you get he is like a normal legendary creature, but fact is that from successful shield removing to actually damaging him you, are bound to take more time, at minimum id say 5 seconds, for average skilled player id say 7 seconds

so essentially he has half the hp, but the average party can only damage him 1/4th the time.

The fact that a highly berserker best geared party could down him in two tries is not a good balancing point.

Now i probably wouldnt decrease his hp, but i would increase the window of attack, or change the activation mechanic to not start the countdown until someone actually hits him. Also i would make it clearer how long the countdown lasts ( i know you can kind of tell by the flickers or internal clocks but eh)

The fact is though this is a long run, and jumping is fairly dangerous, i dont know if the boss needs to take as long as other bosses, but in general i think other bosses already have way too much hp

Fought this boss for the first time recently. Didn’t do so well.

It wasn’t the boss’ fault. His HP is fine. People just look for something else to blame when something offers a different playstyle.

If I would change anything, I’d increase the attack window, as Phys suggested, but the boss isn’t that bad.

So what, this boss can be killed in 2min? I wish i knew what classes, tactics, equip and builds are needed for that.

legit the worst encounter in the game and you made it worse.

(as in boring and tedious)

I assume the encounter still allows for two people to stand on the rocks right by the stairs leading down to the lava to fire at the Destroyer from range with minimal damage? Every time I’ve ran this in the past my necro and someone else would just fire from max distance. It takes about 8 passes but there is 0 risk.

So it’s a tradeoff – a faster run (two or three iterations) with high chance of death or a slower run (8? iterations) with 0 chance of death. I’m ok with giving groups such a decision.

This boss was really easy, why there are people that only 2 guys could dps boss down? Sync lazerz, go down for 15s, burst. Rinse and repeat. And as Robert Hrouda said, he already has 50% of others bosses’ hp and less toughness. Do you want all bosses to be afk-able?

This fight is only boring and tedious because everyone is doing it the very slow way. The proper technique is for 3 people to hit the lazers, and then EVERYONE jumps down and does damage to the boss. Using burst abilities and having quickness will drain the HP very quickly. Doing the proper technique actually takes some skill to execute without people dying to the lava, hence why most people think this boss encounter is bad.

Wethospu.6437:

Iehova.9518:

You are defending an unnecessary change to an already annoying boss.

Yep, I know I’m probably in minority. But I will run this path now and see if that changes my opinion.

You’ve been talking about it without actually having run the path?

It’s annoying; it was a long, slow, boring fight before; now it’s a long, slow, and frustrating fight to PUG.

It might be fun for a well coordinated group, but aren’t all those guys off running fractals?