Guild Wars 2

I think most of us have experienced this problem without knowing it. The 4 signet Thief that dies every second, the scepter Elementalist that never leaves fire stance, and who could forget signet Warrior that 100 Blades thin air.

Dungeons primarily consists of 3 kinds of encounters: Boss fights, Trash, and Minigames.

Boss fights tend to focus on single target DPS, Trash usually focuses on AoE, and Minigames focus on intelligence.

Arena-net made utility skills instantly swap-able for a reason.

Picture related > me trying to convince a fellow thief to use Smoke Screen instead of Assasin’s Sginet in CM

This is why i rarely pug.

Now, to be fair, you don’t need utilities most of the time. The game does a kitten poor job tutorialising just about anything to the player so you’re sol with this. Unless someone wants to get better, you won’t be seeing good utilities from them.

One needs to think of the best way they can contribute to the group. That is a problem that many have. They do not consider what would benefit the group, but only what would benefit them directly.

All we can do is try to help these players become better.

Scootabuser.4915:

Picture related > me trying to convince a fellow thief to use Smoke Screen instead of Assasin’s Sginet in CM

Good luck, I tried to convince a guild mate to use smoke screen during grawl boss in fractal. After 6 wipes he still wasn’t using it and kept die to agony…

Me to a guardian in CM: “Can you use wall of reflect here?”
Guardian: “I don’t have that skill…..”
Me: “Do you have the skill points for it?”
Guardian: “Yeah, i have like 40, I didn’t know what to do with them….”

Conversations that should not occur with lvl 80s….

I feel your pain on this one.

In dungeons, people should always be prepared to swap utilities for group needs…. if everything on your bar is critical to your build…. I just don’t know what to say…. better be a godly build that’s so useful no group would ever want you to change it….

Yeah, watching everyone instantly go down in a dungeon or fractals over and over again without making any changes to skills or strategy can be extremely frustrating. Even my glassy-ish mesmer can last in most situations because I put effort into learning from my mistakes… i’m not sure what some people are doing. I usually don’t want to be rude, i try to be patient but these days since Jan 28th I’ll go ahead and halt the run until we think of a better strategy.

one of my pet peeves is when people don’t bring any condition removal skills. urgh!

CassieGold.7460:

Me to a guardian in CM: “Can you use wall of reflect here?”
Guardian: “I don’t have that skill…..”
Me: “Do you have the skill points for it?”
Guardian: “Yeah, i have like 40, I didn’t know what to do with them….”

Conversations that should not occur with lvl 80s….

I feel your pain on this one.

In dungeons, people should always be prepared to swap utilities for group needs…. if everything on your bar is critical to your build…. I just don’t know what to say…. better be a godly build that’s so useful no group would ever want you to change it….

Slightly better than this situation, which I’ve encountered multiple times…

Me: “Can you use wall of reflection here?”
Guardian: “I don’t want to use it. I don’t like that skill.”

I hate how when you ask them to use a skill and they refuse, they always follow with something like “I WANT TO PLAY THE GAME MY WAY!! STOP TELLING ME HOW TO PLAY!!”.

Some people need to realize that certain classes, especially us support type guardians, switch traits and utilities up all the time, even as often as every other pull depending on the enemy type. So give us a second or two if we stop mid run before that pull ;D. (I always tell the group “sec” though). Utilities I can change pretty fast on the fly, traits always screw me up. Yep I’m dumb, kitten you roman numerals!

Stop forcing people to play how you want. Let them play how they like. Its one thing to mention it, suggest and if they want to, they can. But insisting as you did and trying to “convince” the thief to use smokescreen is not right

JJBigs.8456:

Stop forcing people to play how you want. Let them play how they like. Its one thing to mention it, suggest and if they want to, they can. But insisting as you did and trying to “convince” the thief to use smokescreen is not right

Someone getting repeatedly downed (or wiping the group) because they want to “play how they want” isn’t “right” either.

Soon as you get in a group your “it’s my game and my money” has to make some compromises to what’s best for the group. You’re no longer playing by yourself.

Im no expert in CM. I do know that glass cannon thiefs in other dungeons are “good” without needing smokescreen. Yes, I have heard CM is hard and you almost need reflects. I think though if your team was really trying to be efficient, as in , proper composition/skills you would have recruited a guardian for his wall of reflect. To hastily form a team without talking about strategy, then get a class who has a utility thats pretty usefull but not as good (as it doesnt damage them back) and expect him to kinda be the scapegoat or rely on his smokescreen only to suceed, kind of seems… eh, not more of a personal thing, but a team issue as a whole. As in, this wasnt your only problem. Agreed though, people should read their utilitys instead of the classic

4 signet warrior, signet thief, signet ele, signet ranger etc… the list goes on.

JJBigs.8456:

Im no expert in CM. I do know that glass cannon thiefs in other dungeons are “good” without needing smokescreen. Yes, I have heard CM is hard and you almost need reflects. I think though if your team was really trying to be efficient, as in , proper composition/skills you would have recruited a guardian for his wall of reflect. To hastily form a team without talking about strategy, then get a class who has a utility thats pretty usefull but not as good (as it doesnt damage them back) and expect him to kinda be the scapegoat or rely on his smokescreen only to suceed, kind of seems… eh, not more of a personal thing, but a team issue as a whole. As in, this wasnt your only problem. Agreed though, people should read their utilitys instead of the classic

4 signet warrior, signet thief, signet ele, signet ranger etc… the list goes on.

I wind up on my thief in CM more often than I like…. usually because my Thief has done story, and my Guardian has not. Every time I find myself on my guardian in CM in a group that doesn’t have anyone who’s done story mode, I offer up that I can bring my Thief instead, but the trade off is Smokescreen instead of Wall of Reflect.

Personally, I prefer the wall, it’s a light field for condition removal, it stops damage, and it deals damage back. Smokescreen though does have an advantage of stopping the damage + providing blindness, which can provide protection to the people in Melee range. It’s not 100% a bad alternative to reflect, but it’s not horrible.

CM is an un-popular dungeon, and some times you ‘make do’ with a less than ideal team compisition. In the case of a team that has a Thief, the team has access to an anti-projectile skill, expecting the player who brings the the class to the dungeon to make use of it is reasonable especially when it’s a non-elite utility.

If the only way for a thief to provide this support was, say, black powder shot from off hand pistol, and the thief said “I don’t have any pistols…” then I would feel it’s an unreasonable expectation.

Refusing to adjust to the team in a “team content” is just outright rude. If you want to “play how you want to play”, feel free to do so when you’re the only one affected by how you play. It’s very selfish to have the team to “revolve” themselves around 1 player when the whole party should be trying to mesh together for synergy. I don’t want to hold a party back by being on the floor all the time because I’m too stubborn to grab a skill that’d save my life as well as everyone elses. I expect the same respect of the people I run with. If they don’t, well we’re not partying again.

Now personally, when I see bad players, I throw suggestions like, “Wall of reflect makes these so much easier, should try and get it if you don’t.” “Stand your ground would help us all with the knockdowns.”

Ioflux.4369:

Refusing to adjust to the team in a “team content” is just outright rude. If you want to “play how you want to play”, feel free to do so when you’re the only one affected by how you play. It’s very selfish to have the team to “revolve” themselves around 1 player when the whole party should be trying to mesh together for synergy. I don’t want to hold a party back by being on the floor all the time because I’m too stubborn to grab a skill that’d save my life as well as everyone elses. I expect the same respect of the people I run with. If they don’t, well we’re not partying again.

Now personally, when I see bad players, I throw suggestions like, “Wall of reflect makes these so much easier, should try and get it if you don’t.” “Stand your ground would help us all with the knockdowns.”

Yea definitely the approach is important too. You can’t expect a good response from a pugger by shouting at them that they’re doing it wrong. But if they refuse to listen to you when you’re being nice about it…

I don’t have problems w/ switching traits/skills/weapons but I have always have problem w/ idiots asking me to switch then proceed to next action immediately w/o waiting for me to change it (and my utilities are on CD etc). The next thing I know that I’m in the middle of a battle while fumbling through everything, and everyone asked are we missing someone. Needless to say, I quit the group when they ask if I want to do the next path.
And I’ve seen plenty of those idiots and they might read this post too. Along w/ those refused to change, mentioned here.

You missed the part about them coming to the forum to complain about being kicked. Now that being dead is a lot more apparent and more problematic for groups, people are kicking players like those a lot more.

On my Guardian in PvE I always choose two utility skills and I adjust them accordingly to the encounter because I have like 6 to choose from.

On my Thief I have only one “support utility” (Shadow Refuge) and I always have it because it’s useful as an aggro drop or for getting an extra back stab in.

You can’t force my Thief to take support skills they don’t have. LOL

In the name of the group, you ask player to switch skill/trait that might caused disadvantage to themselves but do you pay attention to help them when they are in needed?

Asking bad players to switching skills/traits won’t help you because they might burn those skills at the wrong time so it’s moot point to ask bad players to do anything. Decent players might not switch trait/skill unless it helps them 1st so if they think you are a bunch of selfish elitists, they probably won’t switch either, for a simple reason: there is always trade off to switch 1 skill/trait for another.

Get yourself a regular group. Problem solved.

I pretty much gave up on suggesting skills to party members. In my experience, ppl get way too defensive and refuse to try the skills. Even I phrase the suggestion as non-authoritative as I can, it won’t matter.

JJBigs.8456:

Stop forcing people to play how you want. Let them play how they like. Its one thing to mention it, suggest and if they want to, they can. But insisting as you did and trying to “convince” the thief to use smokescreen is not right

lowest common denominator.

ComeAndSee.1356:

On my Guardian in PvE I always choose two utility skills and I adjust them accordingly to the encounter because I have like 6 to choose from.

On my Thief I have only one “support utility” (Shadow Refuge) and I always have it because it’s useful as an aggro drop or for getting an extra back stab in.

You can’t force my Thief to take support skills they don’t have. LOL

Blind Powder, Smoke Screen, Venoms, traps.

DancingPenguins.9875:

ComeAndSee.1356:

On my Guardian in PvE I always choose two utility skills and I adjust them accordingly to the encounter because I have like 6 to choose from.

On my Thief I have only one “support utility” (Shadow Refuge) and I always have it because it’s useful as an aggro drop or for getting an extra back stab in.

You can’t force my Thief to take support skills they don’t have. LOL

Blind Powder, Smoke Screen, Venoms, traps.

Calitropes
Scorpion Wire
Tanking ranged mobs with OP daggerstorm…

Scootabuser.4915:

DancingPenguins.9875:

ComeAndSee.1356:

On my Guardian in PvE I always choose two utility skills and I adjust them accordingly to the encounter because I have like 6 to choose from.

On my Thief I have only one “support utility” (Shadow Refuge) and I always have it because it’s useful as an aggro drop or for getting an extra back stab in.

You can’t force my Thief to take support skills they don’t have. LOL

Blind Powder, Smoke Screen, Venoms, traps.

Calitropes
Scorpion Wire
Tanking ranged mobs with OP daggerstorm…

Exactly.

I dont think I’d ever ask a thief to pull out their venoms or their traps even if they had it.

Ioflux.4369:

I dont think I’d ever ask a thief to pull out their venoms or their traps even if they had it.

Very helpful with grawl fractal.

All the best groups I have ever run with have had everyone run with at least one party supporting skill. And all classes have these skills, although some have less than others (such as Rangers).

One should never think of just ‘what can I do’. In a group setting such as dungeons, one should always think ‘what can we do’. Anything less and the entire team is less effective than it could be.

When you are playing in dungeons you are supposed to be a team. If you don’t want to take utility skills to help your team, not even weapon skills, because it’s understandable that some players prefer to use certain weapons (although sometime I will mention how useless some weapon choices are compared to alternatives better suited for the situation), then you are basically hindering your teammates.

I kept track of the skills I used on the last 2 instances I ran:

TA:

• Stand Your Ground ( group stability – shout )
• Hallowed Ground ( group stability – shout )
• Hold the line ( group protection/regen )
• Judges Intervention ( stun break, teleport )
• Wall of Reflection
• Save Yourselves ( group condition purge, stun break )
• I switched my elite utility for Tomb of Wrath for the end boss
• I switched traits twice.
• I switched my offhand weapon a couple of times.
• + copious spamming of Virtues

Fractals ( Underwater, Dredge, Uncategorized, Jade ):

• Stand your ground
• Judges Intervention
• Wall of Reflection
• Purging Flames ( group condition removal, fire field )
• Shield of the Avenger ( Harpies, Old Tom, Raving Asura )
• Sanctuary ( Harpies )
• Hammer of Wisdom ( underwater )
• Sword of Justice ( underwater )
• Switched 2 hand weapons 3 times, single hand twice and offhand 3 times
• Switched traits 4 times
• + copious spamming of Virtues

I didn’t count the actual physic number of swaps I did, but pretty much between every “out of combat” period between encounters.

If I ran with the same weapons and skills all of the time, I think I’d die of boredom eventually and I’d be doing my group a great disservice.

Also in a PUG you need to be aware of what your party members are using, otherwise you’re just wasting cooldowns ( for instance you pop your reflect skill inside a mesmer’s feedback ). If there’s another guardian in the group who uses the hammer, I’ll probably switch to the greatsword as my main, and try not to lay down the same effects.

Admittedly, guardian is generally seen as a support class and there’s more pressure to use support skills than for other professions ( you’re more likely to get comments from your team if you’re not using a certain skill at a certain point ).

Speaking about utilities and swapping them on the fly.
I’d really like to be able to swap my utilities that are on cooldown, without removing the cooldown of course but just so I can be ready with the rights utilities for the next fight.

Example: CoE, laser part, mesmer. I jump my way to the other side then drop a portal for my teammates, meaning I’m stuck with the portal for the next bossfight event though I’d like my Feedback, Blink, Mirror Images to be ready at some point in the fight.

as a ranger, i’d love to use more team utilities….. if i had them

“I play the game the way i want” is a bad excuse. Ofc you can try to bring down a wall by using a spoon. If you are clever though you will adapt and use what benefits you more (And works way faster. Like a wrecker’s ball…) It wont exactly break you a leg to switch out an utility. And maybe your party wants to play the game the way they want aka not fail a dozen times due to someone unwilling to use an utility that might save their lives.

Aegis.9724:

as a ranger, i’d love to use more team utilities….. if i had them

Rangers have two great ones. Healing Spring is heal, regen, condition heal, and combo field. They also have Signet of Renewal, which can pull all conditions from all allies to your pet. I always run these in dungeons.

SynfulChaot.3169:

Aegis.9724:

as a ranger, i’d love to use more team utilities….. if i had them

Rangers have two great ones. Healing Spring is heal, regen, condition heal, and combo field. They also have Signet of Renewal, which can pull all conditions from all allies to your pet. I always run these in dungeons.

i run spring as well, renewal is kinda weak imho, bear does the same thing and doesnt have a 60s cd

But bear only removes one condition/25 secs ~2 in the time. Cant compare range cause i cant find any on Signet of Renewal.

Scootabuser.4915:

DancingPenguins.9875:

ComeAndSee.1356:

On my Guardian in PvE I always choose two utility skills and I adjust them accordingly to the encounter because I have like 6 to choose from.

On my Thief I have only one “support utility” (Shadow Refuge) and I always have it because it’s useful as an aggro drop or for getting an extra back stab in.

You can’t force my Thief to take support skills they don’t have. LOL

Blind Powder, Smoke Screen, Venoms, traps.

Calitropes
Scorpion Wire
Tanking ranged mobs with OP daggerstorm…

Scorpion wire is only clutch in TA. :P I always run Caltropes though because they’re good for the bleed damage. Venom’s stink.

These skills that are aren’t even REMOTELY on the same level as my Guardian’s Wall of Reflection, Shield of the Avenger, Sanctuary, Shouts, AOE cleanses, tankiness, and group healing for PvE.

I’m not saying anything bad about my Thief because my Thief does 4x the amount of damage my Guardian does.

SynfulChaot.3169:

Aegis.9724:

as a ranger, i’d love to use more team utilities….. if i had them

Rangers have two great ones. Healing Spring is heal, regen, condition heal, and combo field. They also have Signet of Renewal, which can pull all conditions from all allies to your pet. I always run these in dungeons.

Healing spring is bad because it requires people to sit in a field that heals for barley any HP. If your fighting
A. Dungeon Trash
B. Dungeon Bosses

YOU WILL NEED TO KITE OR DIE. Its like telling a Water Ele to heal you through Kholer Spin attack, or heal through a graveling scavanger Aoe Knockdown. Just wont happen. So you sit in a field, take massive dps and die, or walk through the field for 1 second, getting like 300hp, and walk out to avoid dying. On paper it sounds great, in reality, its not great.

JJBigs.8456:

SynfulChaot.3169:

Aegis.9724:

as a ranger, i’d love to use more team utilities….. if i had them

Rangers have two great ones. Healing Spring is heal, regen, condition heal, and combo field. They also have Signet of Renewal, which can pull all conditions from all allies to your pet. I always run these in dungeons.

Healing spring is bad because it requires people to sit in a field that heals for barley any HP. If your fighting
A. Dungeon Trash
B. Dungeon Bosses

YOU WILL NEED TO KITE OR DIE. Its like telling a Water Ele to heal you through Kholer Spin attack, or heal through a graveling scavanger Aoe Knockdown. Just wont happen. So you sit in a field, take massive dps and die, or walk through the field for 1 second, getting like 300hp, and walk out to avoid dying. On paper it sounds great, in reality, its not great.

It can happen, done it plenty of times. Full cleric water auto attack afk heal mode. At lvl 80, the auto attack heals for ~500 hp per attack + regenerating mist (~150/s). If it’s not enough, drop geyser / healing rain + blast finishers.

Healing spring is more useful for the combo field than the actual heal it provides. A 15s water field for lots of Area healing and regeneration projectiles makes for some really good amount of accumulated heals. Despite all this however, healing in GW2 is still underpowered and not necessary once everyone gets well acquainted with their dodge button.

Krag.6210:

Speaking about utilities and swapping them on the fly.
I’d really like to be able to swap my utilities that are on cooldown, without removing the cooldown of course but just so I can be ready with the rights utilities for the next fight.

Example: CoE, laser part, mesmer. I jump my way to the other side then drop a portal for my teammates, meaning I’m stuck with the portal for the next bossfight event though I’d like my Feedback, Blink, Mirror Images to be ready at some point in the fight.

In guild or friend groups, you can say, “Can we wait x seconds for CD?” In a Pug though, you might get kicked for asking to hold them up.

JJBigs.8456:

SynfulChaot.3169:

Aegis.9724:

as a ranger, i’d love to use more team utilities….. if i had them

Rangers have two great ones. Healing Spring is heal, regen, condition heal, and combo field. They also have Signet of Renewal, which can pull all conditions from all allies to your pet. I always run these in dungeons.

Healing spring is bad because it requires people to sit in a field that heals for barley any HP. If your fighting
A. Dungeon Trash
B. Dungeon Bosses

YOU WILL NEED TO KITE OR DIE. Its like telling a Water Ele to heal you through Kholer Spin attack, or heal through a graveling scavanger Aoe Knockdown. Just wont happen. So you sit in a field, take massive dps and die, or walk through the field for 1 second, getting like 300hp, and walk out to avoid dying. On paper it sounds great, in reality, its not great.

If you’re not melee, chances are you’re doing it wrong. Every heard of blast finishers? Yeah, the ranger spring is awesome.

How many PUG groups do you guys know that
A. Recognize Combo Fields and use appropriate finishers
B. Have the correct weapons equipped to sync fields/finishers properly, in essence, knowing what the other classes are running
C. Sync the finisher at the right time, not using that skill before hand

Etc…

Problem is PUGS just dont use field/finishers correctly to make them to the maximum potential

Example: My warrior GS only has 2 combo finishers. One is Whirl wind attack which I dont use because it makes me fly away from the enemy. Im left with one combo finisher which is also a cripple skill, which is also a regular attack. I dont use it because it does crap damage. So as a GS Warrior(Common) I actually pretty much never finish a combo.

JJBigs.8456:

How many PUG groups do you guys know that
A. Recognize Combo Fields and use appropriate finishers
B. Have the correct weapons equipped to sync fields/finishers properly, in essence, knowing what the other classes are running
C. Sync the finisher at the right time, not using that skill before hand

Etc…

Problem is PUGS just dont use field/finishers correctly to make them to the maximum potential

Example: My warrior GS only has 2 combo finishers. One is Whirl wind attack which I dont use because it makes me fly away from the enemy. Im left with one combo finisher which is also a cripple skill, which is also a regular attack. I dont use it because it does crap damage. So as a GS Warrior(Common) I actually pretty much never finish a combo.

Guardian light field (symbols) + whirling = whirling bolts = cleansing bolts. Happens more often than you may notice.

I’m not going to lie I’ve been playing this game since it came out and I don’t even understand the combo field mechanics.

I pug all the time, every night and don’t need to read the rest of the thread to agree with OP.

Many, MANY players goes full zerk, 5 signet (or whatever their class has) and then come here to complain things are hard.

An example of what I see a lot: Players letting a team mate die at the graveling scavengers when they leap and when asked, “dude! CC them to interrupt while their are eating your friend!” – “ kitten i have no CC sloted” like it is their first time in the dungeon.

only a very small % of players have group buffs, defensive skills, CC or stability skills.

ComeAndSee.1356:

I’m not going to lie I’ve been playing this game since it came out and I don’t even understand the combo field mechanics.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Combo

Combo fields leave an area with a combo effect, while combo finishers creates certain effects if performed on the combo field.

Ej:
Combo field Fire + Combo Finisher Projectile will create a Fire Projectile that will burn enemies
Combo field Chaos + Combo Finisher Leap will cover the player leaping in a Chaos Armor
Combo Field Water + Combo Finisher Blast will blast the water and do AOE Heal.

Well… pugs are just that bad. In my opinion 5% know what they are doing and really try. 10% are elitists who dont know what they are doing. 50% dont know what they are doing or care whether they contribute…. they just want there shineys. I had 3 fail groups in a row trying to get my daily fotm 10 done. Its was a pittiful display of what PUGs can be like.

JJBigs.8456:

Healing spring is bad because it requires people to sit in a field that heals for barley any HP. If your fighting
A. Dungeon Trash
B. Dungeon Bosses

YOU WILL NEED TO KITE OR DIE. Its like telling a Water Ele to heal you through Kholer Spin attack, or heal through a graveling scavanger Aoe Knockdown. Just wont happen. So you sit in a field, take massive dps and die, or walk through the field for 1 second, getting like 300hp, and walk out to avoid dying. On paper it sounds great, in reality, its not great.

The heal is at once. The regen and cond removal are pulsed. You may not get everyone with the full regen duration, but you can still do a decent heal if you drop the spring on them, which should be your goal anyways. The base heal is quite high. Almost no points in healing (100) and it heals for over 5k. Also, water field.

Bullwinkel.7839:

If you’re not melee, chances are you’re doing it wrong. Every heard of blast finishers? Yeah, the ranger spring is awesome.

I will often dodge into melee to drop the field on the close combatants. Also very nice to drop just before trying to rez someone.

Kumakichi.2583:

Well… pugs are just that bad. In my opinion 5% know what they are doing and really try. 10% are elitists who dont know what they are doing. 50% dont know what they are doing or care whether they contribute…. they just want there shineys. I had 3 fail groups in a row trying to get my daily fotm 10 done. Its was a pittiful display of what PUGs can be like.

Worst part is that people got to FotM level 10 and still don’t know what they are doing? How can you run the same dungeons that many times (at least 35 fractals to get to 10) and not know how to contribute properly?

It’s even more infuriating the higher level you get. Doing any of the ‘odd’ numbered fractals between 10-20 is a nightmare — no one knows how to do anything or they just try and exploit/cheat. Worst is they get everyone killed suggesting “everyone stand here, the boss can’t hit you” (then we all proceed to get 2 shot by AoE).

Guardian Hammer skill 1 chain 3rd attack is melee friendly because if it’s trait in Honor all symbols heal, it will heal melees in range continuously, protection up close to 100% through extended boon duration, combo field every 2s, blast finisher every 4s (traited) and CC. Then some smart donuts asked me why don’t I use my staff for healing & warding.