Guild Wars 2

Suggestions for the Prl of fotm

-Fractals of a scale of 5 or more above your personal reward level do no longer increase it.
-Fractals of the same scale can not increase your personal reward level more than twice.
(This does not apply to fractals of the mai trin type, just to esure there is always a way to get to 100)
-You will recieve significantly better rewards the higher the fractal is, but only if your prl is at least as high as the current scale

-Would require to fully reset prl or at least recalculate it retroactively based on the changes.

Why?

First of all it would increase the loot from high level fractals, but without everyone and their cat being able to benefit from it

Secondly it would stop people from only doing the mossman. I have played all the scales, I found it extremely enjoyable, most people are just spoiling their own fun. I have been getting similar feedback from guildmates I convinced to play some of the harder fractals.
If you do not like challenging content you might want to ignore high level semi-hardcore instanced pve…

Finally this would, viewed long-term increase the number of players who play high-level fractals whilst at the same time ensuring party quality.
This is even more true if considering the coming rework for dailies, that will hopefully encourage diversity in fractal choice.

You would still be able to skip the really annoying fractals to speed up your progress, but you could not just level from 40-78 with joining dailys, leaving you with a high level and essentially no idea what you are doing.

People will just pick out from a broader variety of the easy/quick ones; mossman, underwater, bosses. While it helps in the most literal sense it doesn’t fix the underlying problem.

I am not sure what would actually work, though. Perhaps a broader range of recommended daily fractals, or perhaps a hybrid mode of the current fractal structure and the old random structure.

Perhaps have, for example, the option to continue through fractals the same way you did in the old system, and one of the fractal dailies is to do that.

No. This change alone will not solve the problem. But its my hope it will help doing it. The dailys have to be reworked anyways and from what the ama says, its already planned. This suggestion could rather become one of the changes that, together, make fractals work like they should.

Another option is a dimishing returns system on fractals. Or adding encounter specifi loot / at least base the amounts of relics and encryptions gained directly on the encounter. So a cliffside would always reward more fractal specifc item than a swamp of comparabale level. but that part of the discussion needs its own thread.

Asrat.2645:

Another option is a dimishing returns system on fractals. Or adding encounter specifi loot / at least base the amounts of relics and encryptions gained directly on the encounter. So a cliffside would always reward more fractal specifc item than a swamp of comparabale level. but that part of the discussion needs its own thread.

I don’t mean to shoot everything down but I also don’t think diminishing returns would be very well recieved

Encounter specific loot, though, seems like a really good idea. Like Cliffside boss could have a chance to directly drop Entropy/Genesis.

Sarrs.4831:

I don’t mean to shoot everything down but I also don’t think diminishing returns would be very well recieved

Nope. ^^ Totally not.
Actually that is ok, they dont have to like it, but I started to think it wouldnt work either.
People would just do rotations like ‘swamp, molten, solid ocean’ Recommended fractal chains could be an idea. So every time you play afractal, there is a random choice of ‘next up in line’ recommended to you. Yu can choose one of them, the bonus rewards progressively increase until the chain resets at some point.
That would be fairly close to the old random fractals, without actually forcing players to invest a lot of time at once.

Not sure if i understand your suggestion correctly but with your system wouldn’t just everyone bring up their fractal reward level by doing different fractals and after two weeks or so we would be back to the current swamp/molten duo meta?

Step 1: A lot of people will be on a significantly lower prl. Probably around 40
Step 2: It would take some time, but people would work their way back up (probably at least a month, dont underestimate the lazyness of casuals)
Step 3: Everyone who wants to play the higher levels would now be able to, but instead of working their way up there with hosted mossmans, they would now have had to play challenging fractals, ensuring player experience, player quality and agony resistance.
Step 4: Those who take the effort to go through this to reach level 100 would now be properly rewarded with better loot.
Step 5: Yes, but with the rewards getting progressively better, we would at least replace 77 with 83 and 40 with 99. This should not primarely adress the issue of fractal endgame diversity. This should adress the leveling process, the loot problem and the casulty of fractals.
Step 6: ?
Step 7: Profit!

1.) “Secondly it would stop people from only doing the mossman.”

Seems like the only person that has a problem with this is people like you who enjoy controlling others. You are free to run any fractal you like, its doesnt mean the rest of us HAVE to join you. I do non-swamp all the time for 51+, and have no issues getting people. Seems like you are the one with the issue here.

2. ) "I have played all the scales, I found it extremely enjoyable, most people are just spoiling their own fun. "

And now you are trying to tell people how to have fun…sigh. I’ve played every scale. I do not enjoy Jademaw, cliffside, and thaumanova. Just because you find them enjoyable doesn’t mean the rest of us have to. How dare you try to tell people what they are going to have fun doing? What is this, North Korea?

3.) “I have been getting similar feedback from guildmates I convinced to play some of the harder fractals.”

So you use a small sample size, and you think thats something to base it on? Im not opposed to more challenging fractals. But come on. This isn’t even half way decent as a survey.

4. ) “If you do not like challenging content you might want to ignore high level semi-hardcore instanced pve…”

Fractals is high level but it was never hardcore. Take that trash back to the raid threads because it stinks.

5.) “Finally this would, viewed long-term increase the number of players who play high-level fractals whilst at the same time ensuring party quality.”

Assertion. Assertion. Assertion. All presented without evidence, and shall be dismissed as such.

6.) “This is even more true if considering the coming rework for dailies, that will hopefully encourage diversity in fractal choice.”

You know what else would encourage fractal choice? Something you never once mentioned? Having more fractals! And ones that people actually enjoy doing!

7.) “You would still be able to skip the really annoying fractals to speed up your progress, but you could not just level from 40-78 with joining dailys, leaving you with a high level and essentially no idea what you are doing.”

And here we are at the root of the issue. You don’t like in experienced players in your fractals, and you think ordering people to play the fractals they don’t want is going to change that.

Here’s a pro tip: It won’t change anything. Well that’s too bad, but maybe if you spent time explaining mechanics (which takes of of 2-3mins), to the noobs in your squad you would have smoother runs. But that’s too hard, so instead QQing on the forums about making people play other fractals will help.

Think about this. If the fractals people currently run are easy, and you have people with no idea whats going on running them, what happens when you force those same people…..to run the harder fractals? You’re gonna have a bad time.

If you stop viewing this thread as some kind of personal attack against you, I will happily join you in discussing.
Your initial post mostly looks like you are trying to get into a fight. I dont know, why you feel offended, but you obviously do.
Soo, first of all you appear to be thinking of me as some kind of elitist.
My friend list is full of people, that joined me with no clue, and that I have been giving advice to.
I find much joy in helping out others, that does not mean, that im happy if people make me climb on trees, because they dont know how to dodge.

My main point about this is: people should learn to play fotm properly, but they should do so in the lower levels. Thats what the progressive system is for: You play your way up to the harder ones and, by doing so, practice.
If they just mindlessly farm their swamps day in and day out, they wont learn anything.
And you cant honestly say, that you enjoy havin a soldier-builded warrior in 95, who keeps running upstairs to trigger the pots. (yes, that actually happened to me)

@2/3: I never claimed to have taken a statistically significant sample. I just happen to know people, who literally hated fractals, but I kept dragging them along until we played 45 – 59 in one night. That was the point, where I convinced them.

@1: For a 94 you have to wait an average 1-3 hours. And that is on prime time. Dont tell me you have no problem finding groups. 75+ lfg is empty from 1am to 6 pm utc.

@4: I never said hardcore. I said semi hardcore. And that means: any casual who is commited to make the effort to play fractal on high level can do it. But you should not be doing it without making any effort at all. But let me be honest here: people who are not showing even the slightest interest in challenging content should not be doing 50+ fractals. And that means: no 3 quick dailies, that can be completed by every noob either. Fractals should be open to everyone, but only to everyone who wants to play them. Not to people who are just looking for quick money. The reward should only be a motivational bonus.
And srsly: its not like the game would force you to play fractals at all.

@5: I never said I had any proof of this upgrading both quantity and quality. But think about it logically:
-better rewards=more players
-longer/harder progression=more experienced players.
Get it? And it would most certainly not make things worse.

@6: Ok now…how exactly is that even remotely related to my topic? This about working with the frl, not about possible attempts to fix fractal diversity. I dont deny, that more and more enjoyable fractals can help solving the problem, but its a little out of place here.

@7) Most of this I have adressed above. Now, what would happen, if I forced them to play the harder fractals? Thats right, they would get better. People are not ‘noobs’ by default. The ‘skill’ in a video game is not genetically predetermined. Its something you have to work on. Something you have to learn.
And about forcing…My proposal would require people to play at least 50 of the existing 100 fractals. If you hate half of the existing fractals…perhaps you shouldnt do them, should you? You dont have to play game content you dont enjoy, but in that case you should not get the associated rewards either.
For example im forver done doing silverwastes, Ive spent so much time there, I cant stand it any more. In exchange I make a lot less gold. fair is fair.

Reading through my own answer, I guess I sound just as agitated and angry as you did. So I just wanted to assure you that I am not.(Im actually too tired to be upset^^) Its just hard to to express this in a proper way, especially since you effectively twisted some of my statements and I feel like I have to try and set it right.

Asrat.2645:

If you stop viewing this thread as some kind of personal attack against you, I will happily join you in discussing.

This is an assertion, and shall be dismissed as such. I just got here. You do not know me. So why on earth would i feel like its a personal attack? This is what we like to call “poisoning the well”. I would ask you to refrain from doing that because this is the problem, you lack self awareness.

Asrat.2645:

Your initial post mostly looks like you are trying to get into a fight. I dont know, why you feel offended, but you obviously do.

Another attempt to poison the well. I can’t be offended by something that doesn’t bother me. If anything you feel offended for me pointing out your short comings through your bad arguments. That’s too bad.

Asrat.2645:

Soo, first of all you appear to be thinking of me as some kind of elitist.My friend list is full of people, that joined me with no clue, and that I have been giving advice to. I find much joy in helping out others, that does not mean, that im happy if people make me climb on trees, because they dont know how to dodge.

And here is the straw man. You are just full of fallacies. If i thought you were an elitist, i would have just said so. Instead i called you an authoritarian whiner. Which you are proving yourself to be by trying to tell me what i feel. Feelings that are in no way even remotely on base with anything i said, just sad attempts to prove your vapid point. I could give a kitten about your friends list. It doesn’t mean you know, like, or even talk to all of those people. It’s a completely irrelevant thing to say. Don’t want to climb on tree’s? Then don’t. I surely don’t. No one is forcing you to. Don’t want to squad with those people? Then don’t. Again, no one is forcing you to. I do 77 often, and never once have i had a party wipe, and i don’t even dodge. Why? Because my necro doesn’t have to.

Asrat.2645:

My main point about this is: people should learn to play fotm properly, but they should do so in the lower levels. Thats what the progressive system is for: You play your way up to the harder ones and, by doing so, practice.

Again, trying to tell others what to do. Low level FoTM is there for people to learn, correct. However who the hell are you to tell people they shouldn’t be able to do harder ones on their own time? And progression doesn’t mean those people will still know what to do in harder ones, being that mechanics change. And some people have a hard time dealing with certain mechanics (like people have a real hate for the “Enemies apply random conditions”). But again, progression is there, but people are able to do what they want. Don’t like it? Don’t squad with them.

Asrat.2645:

If they just mindlessly farm their swamps day in and day out, they wont learn anything.And you cant honestly say, that you enjoy havin a soldier-builded warrior in 95, who keeps running upstairs to trigger the pots. (yes, that actually happened to me)

I’m sensing a common theme here. I honestly don’t care what build people are running. I didn’t call you an elitist, you did. But here you are doing the same thing YOU said you were not. Just saiyan.

Asrat.2645:

@2/3: I never claimed to have taken a statistically significant sample. I just happen to know people, who literally hated fractals, but I kept dragging them along until we played kitten in one night. That was the point, where I convinced them.

You convinced ‘them’. What does this have to do with anyone else? People who hate fractals mostly have never even set foot in fractals.

Asrat.2645:

@1: For a 94 you have to wait an average 1-3 hours. And that is on prime time. Dont tell me you have no problem finding groups. 75+ lfg is empty from 1am to 6 pm utc.

I just did and I’ll tell you again. I don’t have a problem finding groups. Also i never stated what time im on from. Using UTC as a reference is so dishonest. For one you don’t even know my time zone. And can’t you run another fractal besides 94? There are 48 other scales that you can run for daily. Some of which have the same fractal. Why 94 specifically? You can like it, but like i said, other people don’t have to. It’s odd you pick an absurdly high scale as an argument and expect anyone to take you seriously.

Asrat.2645:

@4: I never said hardcore. I said semi hardcore. And that means: any casual who is commited to make the effort to play fractal on high level can do it. But you should not be doing it without making any effort at all. But let me be honest here: people who are not showing even the slightest interest in challenging content should not be doing 50+ fractals. And that means: no 3 quick dailies, that can be completed by every noob either. Fractals should be open to everyone, but only to everyone who wants to play them. Not to people who are just looking for quick money. The reward should only be a motivational bonus. And srsly: its not like the game would force you to play fractals at all.

Again. Trying to tell people what they should and should not be doing. People don’t run 50+ for ‘quick money’. They run it for the chance at ascended loot. You seem quite out of touch.

Asrat.2645:

@5: I never said I had any proof of this upgrading both quantity and quality. But think about it logically:
-better rewards=more players
-longer/harder progression=more experienced players.
Get it? And it would most certainly not make things worse.

There is a difference between ‘logic’ and ‘reality’. If you were logical you would realize that. Logically the argument is sound, but it is not factually accurate. Again, you have no data. Longer/harder progression can also mean the loot isn’t worth the time taken to progress, which is why people dont run scale 94. I dont see how anyone could just gloss over that. And ‘worse’ is entirely subjective here, seeing as again, reward:difficulty ratio is a thing.

Asrat.2645:

@6: Ok now…how exactly is that even remotely related to my topic? This about working with the frl, not about possible attempts to fix fractal diversity. I dont deny, that more and more enjoyable fractals can help solving the problem, but its a little out of place here.

It’s not out of place. If people liked the fractals they were doing they would become invested in learning them. Forcing people to do fractals they hate, does the opposite. Only an authoritarian would think forcing someone to do something ‘for their own good’ would help people. And history has proven thats not the case.

Asrat.2645:

@7) Most of this I have adressed above. Now, what would happen, if I forced them to play the harder fractals? Thats right, they would get better. People are not ‘noobs’ by default. The ‘skill’ in a video game is not genetically predetermined. Its something you have to work on. Something you have to learn.
And about forcing…My proposal would require people to play at least 50 of the existing 100 fractals. If you hate half of the existing fractals…perhaps you shouldnt do them, should you? You dont have to play game content you dont enjoy, but in that case you should not get the associated rewards either.
For example im forver done doing silverwastes, Ive spent so much time there, I cant stand it any more. In exchange I make a lot less gold. fair is fair

Again, trying to tell others what to do. I do the fractals i like because i have that choice. You aren’t in a position to tell people “you shouldnt get the rewards if you only like half the fractals”, it doesn’t work like that kiddo. Anet decides that. And they decided to give people choices. Have you no respect for their choice of this system? Guess not. Sounds like you rather just QQ because no one wants to run fractals they don’t liek that don’t give good loot. And lets gets something straight, I’ve run all 50 of the fractals for the achievement. You don’t get to tell me i shouldn’t do fractals because i only like certain ones. I run the ones i like. Don’t like it? Tough kitten. Go cry about it with the rest of the control freaks.

Fractals is the way it is. I enjoy it under the ‘current’ system. Which is what Anet decides on. Not you. Maybe if you pulled you head out of your kitten you’d enjoy fractals more. Or better yet take your own advice. Don’t play content you don’t ‘fully enjoy’. Because right now it seems like you just want to change the content to something you would like, when you don’t enjoy it. Then why are you playing it?

Asrat.2645:

Reading through my own answer, I guess I sound just as agitated and angry as you did. So I just wanted to assure you that I am not.(Im actually too tired to be upset^^) Its just hard to to express this in a proper way, especially since you effectively twisted some of my statements and I feel like I have to try and set it right.

Twisting a statement involves misrepresenting the statement itself. I simply responded to exactly what you said. I do not care if you are angry, it’s not a concern to me in the slightest. What i care about is you basically saying “I don’t like the way people run fractals, make them run fractals the way i want to run fractals”. That’s not how you make a fractal system. And that sure isn’t how you make that system enjoyable.

The best solution i have heard so far has been mentioned in the AMA in passing (as one of the things devs are thinking about).
1. Get rid of the current 1-100 scale.
2. Each fractal gets 4 scales: adept, veteran, elite, champion (based on the current reward tiers).
3. Each tier gets a 3-fractal daily
The points above alone would eliminate 3xswampland runs, but would likely result in doing 3 easier ones, so we still have to add 4th point

4. rewards for individual fractals become dependant on fractal type (and tier), with those for more difficult/longer fractals, like cliffside, getting significantly better.
(that last point need to be done regardless of the solution used anyway)

‘sigh’

I am not ‘poisoning the well’… I am just trying to make you realize, that you are not trying to discuss, you are trying to fight.
That is a fact, believe it or not, I really dont care. But from your very first sentence on this topic you have been acting extremely agressive.

I have been thinking about your main point. That I was ‘forcing’ people to play content they dont like.
Ive came to the conclusion, that you are right in a way:
If people decide they want to get involved in higher fractals, I want to force them to work their way up there. Yes. But neither am I forcing them to do so, nor am I forcing people to play only the fractals they hate. They have to play 50 fractals of their choice, if they can not possibly find 50 fractals they like, fotm is simply the wrong place.

Look: we do not have to agrre on this. I can have my opinion, you can have yours. Í base my decision on the following belief: the easiest path is not neccessarely the best.
If you disagree with that, fine.
You make some good points, you are certainly able to properly voice your opinion, probably more so than I am.

What im most concerned with is you still actively twisting everything I say. Yes, you are in fact purposely missinterpreting my Statements. You are trying to make my quotes serve your cause.
For example: if I am referring to the lfg being empty in a certain window of time, and you talk some unrelated bs about how you do not play in these time windows…I dont quite get it. Your response to that was completely unrelated and you just tried to discredit me at all costs.

All in all: I rly enjoy in engaging in conversation. But it is no fun if you try to turn it into a quote war. And finally: you say it is my Goal to make people run fractals the way I want.
Big suprise. I have an idea, how I think fractals could become better, so I want people to do it. What exactly on this Forum serves another purpose? That is the Point in constructive Feedback: you think about, what you would like better, and propose changes, how to make it work.
I never said, everybody has to like it. Critisize me if you want, you are welcome actually.
But please stay on Topic and try to be constructive yourself. Offer me alternatives.
Dont just say:‘Im fine with the current system, you are wrong’ That is not helpful in any way.

(I have to work with an incredibly awful auto-correct right now. I hope, this is remotely readable)

Astralporing.1957:

The best solution i have heard so far has been mentioned in the AMA in passing (as one of the things devs are thinking about).
1. Get rid of the current 1-100 scale.
2. Each fractal gets 4 scales: adept, veteran, elite, champion (based on the current reward tiers).
3. Each tier gets a 3-fractal daily
The points above alone would eliminate 3xswampland runs, but would likely result in doing 3 easier ones, so we still have to add 4th point

4. rewards for individual fractals become dependant on fractal type (and tier), with those for more difficult/longer fractals, like cliffside, getting significantly better.
(that last point need to be done regardless of the solution used anyway)

That sounds interesting, though I’d be curious how fractals which have variety (like Swampland has Mossman and Bloomhunger) pick their boss. RNG?

FrostDraco.8306:

1.) “Secondly it would stop people from only doing the mossman.”

Seems like the only person that has a problem with this is people like you who enjoy controlling others. You are free to run any fractal you like, its doesnt mean the rest of us HAVE to join you. I do non-swamp all the time for 51+, and have no issues getting people. Seems like you are the one with the issue here.

2. ) "I have played all the scales, I found it extremely enjoyable, most people are just spoiling their own fun. "

And now you are trying to tell people how to have fun…sigh. I’ve played every scale. I do not enjoy Jademaw, cliffside, and thaumanova. Just because you find them enjoyable doesn’t mean the rest of us have to. How dare you try to tell people what they are going to have fun doing? What is this, North Korea?

3.) “I have been getting similar feedback from guildmates I convinced to play some of the harder fractals.”

So you use a small sample size, and you think thats something to base it on? Im not opposed to more challenging fractals. But come on. This isn’t even half way decent as a survey.

4. ) “If you do not like challenging content you might want to ignore high level semi-hardcore instanced pve…”

Fractals is high level but it was never hardcore. Take that trash back to the raid threads because it stinks.

5.) “Finally this would, viewed long-term increase the number of players who play high-level fractals whilst at the same time ensuring party quality.”

Assertion. Assertion. Assertion. All presented without evidence, and shall be dismissed as such.

6.) “This is even more true if considering the coming rework for dailies, that will hopefully encourage diversity in fractal choice.”

You know what else would encourage fractal choice? Something you never once mentioned? Having more fractals! And ones that people actually enjoy doing!

7.) “You would still be able to skip the really annoying fractals to speed up your progress, but you could not just level from 40-78 with joining dailys, leaving you with a high level and essentially no idea what you are doing.”

And here we are at the root of the issue. You don’t like in experienced players in your fractals, and you think ordering people to play the fractals they don’t want is going to change that.

Here’s a pro tip: It won’t change anything. Well that’s too bad, but maybe if you spent time explaining mechanics (which takes of of 2-3mins), to the noobs in your squad you would have smoother runs. But that’s too hard, so instead QQing on the forums about making people play other fractals will help.

Think about this. If the fractals people currently run are easy, and you have people with no idea whats going on running them, what happens when you force those same people…..to run the harder fractals? You’re gonna have a bad time.

While the tone is a bit rough, I have to agree with the general sentiment.

The offered “solution” by TC is nothing more than a fancy “play the way I want you to play”.

Fractals have very serious issues, but forcing players into certain fractals or behaviors (especially after an easier system was in place) is just plain wrong. Either arenanet does a complete fractal revamp, or not.

Main issue for fractals is and remains that most of them are stale content over 3 years old. No amount of “fixing” is going to make current fractals more interesting or enjoyable. Sure, they are great the first hundred or twohundered times. Once you hit over 2 thousand fractals run though, it is a chore you just want to get over with asap.

The changes to fractals have been consistantly to make grouping easier. I remember back when fractals got introduced you needed people of similar rank to rank up (not to mention it was character progress, not account). All the changes to personal fractal rank increasing were done for quality of life of the playerbase.

The change from 1 fractal rank per fractal instead of fractal set was already a huge decrease in time commitment. You don’t see any old vets running around demanding people get downgraded. Any step back within this system would rightfully cause a lot of hate.

Best suggestion I would give is as follows: If you come up with ideas for improving the game, make sure they don’t endup alienating or discriminating against players. Improvements should bring quality of life features with them, not the opposite.

Cyninja.2954:

While the tone is a bit rough, I have to agree with the general sentiment.

The offered “solution” by TC is nothing more than a fancy “play the way I want you to play”.

Fractals have very serious issues, but forcing players into certain fractals or behaviors (especially after an easier system was in place) is just plain wrong. Either arenanet does a complete fractal revamp, or not.

Main issue for fractals is and remains that most of them are stale content over 3 years old. No amount of “fixing” is going to make current fractals more interesting or enjoyable. Sure, they are great the first hundred or twohundered times. Once you hit over 2 thousand fractals run though, it is a chore you just want to get over with asap.

The changes to fractals have been consistantly to make grouping easier. I remember back when fractals got introduced you needed people of similar rank to rank up (not to mention it was character progress, not account). All the changes to personal fractal rank increasing were done for quality of life of the playerbase.

The change from 1 fractal rank per fractal instead of fractal set was already a huge decrease in time commitment. You don’t see any old vets running around demanding people get downgraded. Any step back within this system would rightfully cause a lot of hate.

Best suggestion I would give is as follows: If you come up with ideas for improving the game, make sure they don’t endup alienating or discriminating against players. Improvements should bring quality of life features with them, not the opposite.

See? that is constructive criticism! Not focussing on what I said but on what I said.

So now: I see the point you are trying to make here. Ist a good one.
But think about it this way: It is called ‘personal reward level
The idea behind a leveling system is to progressively unlock content as you play it.
If you could just join people for cof exp farm from lvl 1 and skip the entirety of ’regula’ leveling, would you consider that healthy for the game? (ToKs aside ^^)
Tell you this: I could remove the ‘every fratcal only participating in progression a maximum of 2 times’. That way people would be free to farm only their favourite fractals, but on an appropiate scale to simulate the progress of an actual leveling system.
The issue of fractal diversity might actually be better adressed with other tools.

Asrat.2645:

See? that is constructive criticism! Not focussing on what I said but on what I said.

This made no sense. And you will have to define constructive. Simply because i pointed out flaws in your reasoning doesn’t make anything i said ‘not’ constructive. It just simply means you don’t want to hear it, which is not my concern. Maybe if you understood the full implications of what you said, you would see why i gave the argument i did. But personal introspection is too hard for some people i guess.

Asrat.2645:

So now: I see the point you are trying to make here. Ist a good one.
But think about it this way: It is called ’personal reward level
The idea behind a leveling system is to progressively unlock content as you play it.

Actually personal reward level affects karma gain from fractals more than anything. If Anet was concerned with people playing scales away from their personal rewards level they would not give you an increase for doing higher scale fractals that massively out scale you level, and they would not allow you to join fractals that were outside you level range.

What you missed is that reward level restricts the player from opening higher fractals, this doesn’t mean that they can not do them, which is your gripe from before “players doing fractals they didn’t progress too”.

You can’t talk about the ‘idea behind’ something when the implementation is completely different. You obviously DON’T get the idea, because what you just said is completely different from its current design. Progression is a term that has different intensities, and Anet may have a different idea of what progression they had in mind. I don’t like the idea of talking about the designers intent, when how things ‘are’ are at odds with what you think, and when we have no direct confirmation of such. It’s a complete disregarding of the fact, you may be way off.

Asrat.2645:

If you could just join people for cof exp farm from lvl 1 and skip the entirety of ‘regula’ leveling, would you consider that healthy for the game? (ToKs aside ^^)

It still would not matter because what is ‘healthy for the game’ and what you ‘consider’ healthy are two different things entirely. As for CoF farming for masteries, Anet has already stated they take no issue with this. As for CoF farming past level 60, again, it’s still a thing. Do you consider it to be unhealthy? People are still doing it. “Make them stop!” It’s a grind, that rewards Exp. Some people do it, some people don’t. Either way if it was really that much of an issue it would have been addressed a long time ago when the issue was even raised. You can’t enter CoF from level one anyway, or any other dungeon so i don’t see why this is even in here. It’s a hypothetical, about a hypothetical. Therefore useless in the actual discussion.

Asrat.2645:

Tell you this: I could remove the ‘every fratcal only participating in progression a maximum of 2 times’. That way people would be free to farm only their favourite fractals, but on an appropiate scale to simulate the progress of an actual leveling system.
The issue of fractal diversity might actually be better adressed with other tools.

Why is there this hang on on treating fractal scales like a ‘leveling’ system? It’s a progression system. Gated mainly by AR in a lot of cases. Progression doesn’t always imply a linear path, and why should it? People take things in at their own pace, which is better for fractals over all. In the end, personal reward level doesn’t mean anything. And even with your idea’s they still wouldn’t mean anything, people would still dredge through fractals they hate just to get it up. And then we are right back to square one.

Restricting choices to fit ‘your’ playstyle does not make for a good progression system. I keep having to say that. It won’t change people from doing swamp, or any other easy fractal, it will just make people hate the ones they don’t like that much more. and probably end up ditching fractals as a whole, which is what I personally don’t want.

Don’t fix what ain’t broke. If people want to run Mossman, let them.

However, a real solution would be.

Add more chests to Harder Fractals.

IE:
Mai Trin Drops a Large Loot Chest for Each Cannon Round.
Therma Nova Reactor Drops a Large Loot Chest for each Room Completed & Portals drops smaller loot chests.
Underground Facility drops a Large Loot Box for Opening the Door, Each Boss, and the Mini-Elemental’s can drop loot.

Etc.

That way people are rewarded for doing ‘harder’ not forced into doing it.

Bra, you stop quotemining, I start reading what you say, ok?
Edit: ok, I actually read it anyways and youve gotten a bit more reasonable.
But you are still trying to read into my post what isnt there. For example I never said anything against cof mastery farm.
And please stop bringing this back to the front page, im starting to get tired of this.
I made a suggestion, you dont like it, I admit there was something wrong with it, but I still like the idea in general.
So could we just let it rest here?