Guild Wars 2

Anet should really implement countermeasures against that skipping plague.
theres enough stuff they could do to end this plague.
its just annoying for “new” players or those who enjoy clearing dungeons completely, fully exploring them asf.

hell they even start skipping storymode dungeons…because THEY CAN.

same reason over and over again:
“skip this”
“Y”
“time efficieny”
then same story over and over again:
first one dies on mobs running behind the leading skip/rusher
second one…
and so on.
end of story: time efficiency -100%

if u ask y they skip the boss xy, u almost always end up being told that they NEVER EVER tried to manage him, they just HEARD its hard and EVRYONE is skipping…
people who were running 100 times Ascalons never even heard of special chest after kholer, never figured out burrows tactics and so on…

i t is a painintheass to find proper people taking their time and have fun doing the ONE AND ONLY maximum efficient runs:
clear evrything, get most money out of it, most exp (in points AND knowledge) and most loot in the shortest time possible. oh and most fun for my part
(we managed to clear the “so-called” harder paths of some dungeons even with 4 newbs with subpar equip so noone tell me its too hard)

THATS EFFICIENCY FOLKS.

and dont forget to equip toughness and vitality and use some more skills than the one who make damage…

so please Anet do something to EDUCATE people to play the way it is meant to be done.

thx
end of rant

Oh right, new week it is, so here it goes again.

I think Anet did a lot to educate the playerbase on how the game can be played. You should catch up with the program too, as the main point of it is: “Play it the way you want”.

The only education that needs to happen here is that you need to educate yourself to not assume that the way you enjoy playing the game is the way everyone enjoys (or should enjoy) playing the game.

For me, skipping is an important mechanic in dungeons. Knowing when a fight is worth it in a time-sense and whether or not it can be safely skipped without lots of deaths is important. Sometimes, a dungeon is only fun at all because it has challenging skipping segments that I think are worth the risk, and that I know I can make work. A good example of that is TA Forward/Forward.

Anyway, this discussion has been done a million times before, so I won’t press further. Hopefully you feel better after yelling and screaming about it on the forums.

Here’s a simple solution:

Make your own group.

Players should not be forced to play the game the way you feel things should be played. If you hate skipping then create your own group that doesn’t. The mass majority of us prefer to skip? Why is that? Because a lot of us don’t have the time nor desire to waste time on mobs with high health that drop nothing of value for your effort.

If you run with pugs, you aren’t always going to get happy experiences. It’s as simple as that. If you want things run the way you like, form organized groups. If you can’t or won’t do that, don’t complain about the pug morass you find yourself in.

when making a group state one simple rule “no skipping anything”. If someone suggests skipping then you tell them no, if they still do it, you’re in your rights to throw them out. That’s how I manage most of my dungeons

I’ve honestly beaten every dungeon (story AND explorable mode) normally several times, memorizing every room and boss fight encounter. It’s not worth the effort in its current state. Anyone who knows the dungeon and mob layout enough deserves the ability to skip because they know how to counter the mob groups that are being skipped and will not suffer the consequences faced by inexperienced players.

There’s enough guides out there to educate PuGs, but many, for some reason don’t know the guides exist or they just simply don’t care. These are probably the same type of people that will probably skip tutorials or read instructions, even though it has all the answers they will need. You could put all the information on the screen, but it won’t stop people from being ignorant.

Here’s the quote again because we like to beat dead horses:

Robert Hrouda.1327:

It’s one of those human things to do something with the path of least resistance and danger, especially when there is a reward at the end. I could make enemies never drop their aggro on players and force them to fight every single mob, but I don’t see that as a viable solution right now.
I think the better solution is to look at why people are skipping things, and approach from a different angle. Trash mobs have too much HP, and can’t be counted on for lucrative drops from a Risk/Time vs Reward, so people interested in making money (most groups) aren’t incentivized to do it, whereas the end chest/boss are more guaranteed and accountable returns on time and risk. I also think there is something to be said about interesting trash mob mechanics making them more enjoyable of a fight.
I can’t make the rewards from trash mobs so lucrative though that people just farm the first couple trash mobs/boss in a dungeon and then rinse/repeat. We encountered this when people just farmed the first boss in an instance and then restarted it (earlier around launch time), and we had to adjust the content as a result. It’s a fine line you have to walk to encourage players to get to the end, but make the process of getting there rewarding enough as well.

I don’t imagine this next update will resolve all the skipping behavior. The path of least resistance is engrained in people, and even if I do everything I could to incentivize people, there will still be those who skip stuff. I have been fixing exploits that will require players to complete more of the events in dungeons, but I am sure people will still skip what they can to get to their end goal.

For now I would encourage those not looking to skip to find some folks who don’t like skipping and make a guild with them… or maybe look for guilds that are dedicated to not skipping, and tag along with them. I’m in a couple of them (anonymously), and it really is an effective solution to playing the game the way you want to play it: Find other people with similar interests and band together with them.

I have to try very hard to not make any… dare I say mean comparisons between your argument and your writing style, but needless to say, if skipping is such a big deal to you, then make your own groups.

Change has rarely happened by verbal complaints, unless you lead and show everyone “why” it’s better no one is going to care.

I’ve done most dungeons and their paths without skipping, but after a few times there isn’t much point in killing the trash. Still I prefer to do so, especially some of the fun encounters like Kohler (that rewards a chest as well). But unless the other players in my party clearly state they are going to kill stuff I’m assuming we’re skipping as much as we can.

Guild Wars 2, the game where playing through the content is considered a chore that should be skipped whenever possible.

I don’t think Robert’s old quote is says what people think it says. He never said he liked skipping, just that it’s an inevitable reality (one that he talks about attempting to lessen). He even says while there is a way to outright prevent it, he’d rather take other options.

Unfortunately in the most recent dungeon redesign (AC) imo they made trash mobs even more annoying and take longer to kill. The gravelings have lots of knockbacks (almost everyone hates those) and they are invulnerable a lot of the time increasing the time to defeat them regardless of how high your DPS is. Speed runs and skipping groups are barely playing through content any more. Half the time it doesn’t even feel like a game.

Pretend it’s for the challenge and joy of skipping, we all know it’s because people don’t care about the content and want the loot as fast as possible. Dungeons aren’t supposed to be running challenges (most of them aren’t even challenging to skip in if you have a couple of buffs, including TA F/F), they are group challenges that are supposed to revolve around group combat.

People seem to think that because skipping (when possible) is inevitable, suddenly you can’t criticise it or point out the negative impact it has on the meta. As if it doesn’t matter than dungeons are being reduced to loot piñatas and actual content is being ignored.

If you don’t like dungeons, why skip through them at all? Why not spend your time doing something you actually enjoy doing?

I feel your pain, OP. I love this game, really, but I think ANet failed big time with dungeons. I don’t like skipping either, but some trash mobs just take a LOOONG time to die. I would like to enjoy my time on other things as well and this is why 90% of the playerbase skips.

There are also those who skip simply because they lack the ability to kill the trash.

I know that skipping feels so much like missing content. Afterall it is just a game. If you don’t enjoy playing with your character then what are you doing here? But, again, ANet failed twice there. Once for making the trash so resilient (and so many) and twice for leaving skipping exploits (that has nothing to do with challenging skipping segments as some has said).

Ultimately, I think that will kill the game for me, as I really don’t see any interest from ANet at fixing it.

This is the sixth time we’re making this thread; and we’ve grown extremely efficient at making it.

Start your own groups with your own rules.

This would be fixed if people stopped running bad builds, healing builds, non zerker builds, non heavys or mesmers. The reason people skip is because people have terrible DPS and it takes ages because of that. If people would start playing mostly warrior, 1guard or mes in dungeons, I bet alot more groups would be ok with killing trash.

If i have a engi, ranger, necro, and im guardian in group, guess what, you think I want to skip or fight.

Title should be renamed Plague of Threads that Complain about Skipping. The solution has been given MANY MANY MANY times. Make your own groups with your own rules. There’s even an option in gw2lfg to say no skipping. If you have a problem with skipping still then the problem is you, not others.

People don’t skip trash because they don’t have the skill to kill them. This is a very absurd statement/conclusion. People skip trash because it’s not worth the time. It also takes skill to skip trash. Go to Arah and you’ll see what I mean.

I also disagree about trash mobs being content. They’re not; just a time sink. Lets hypothetically say they were “content”, would you want to see the same thing over and over? For example, would you watch the cutscenes every time you do dungeon stories just so you don’t miss the content? Do you fight every mob from point A to point B so you don’t miss that content? So you talk to every npc in the game so you don’t miss that content? When you level a new character do you not skip any of the content I just mentioned?

Despite the ignorant opinions of those such as Shiren, I do, in-fact, enjoy skipping (in some cases) more than fighting.

Can my usual dungeon group clear the content? Easily. It will make things take much longer, but we can do it just fine. However, I would rather make clever use of a mesmer’s portal or a thief’s stealth. I would rather combine the utilities of various professions in such a way as to yield a positive result that doesn’t necessarily involve combat efficiency.

I have always enjoyed the idea of using alternative methods to succeed in dungeons, and Guild Wars 2 is one of the few current MMOs with that ability. Dungeons in other games bored the hell out of me, forcing me to just farm out the proper gear in order to sit there and spam my skills on each mob then move on to the next. It is MUCH more entertaining to pull together all of the party’s utilities and find another method. At least, for me.

And that’s the point. It’s more entertaining for me. No one is forcing you to play with groups that want to skip some of the trash. YOU are trying to force THEM to play a certain way, not the other way around.

@ Shiren
I never claimed he liked skipping. I was just pointing out his suggestion and showing that they know it’s a “problem”.

Here’s a few of the issues I see:

• People want the rewards, but the content isn’t up to par with the dungeon designer’s AND the players’ expectations. Some of us enjoy obtaining our skins, coin, or whatever else it is that still draws us to dungeon. Enduring the current obstacles of dungeons is not fun, so skipping is just an adaptation to deal with it until changes are made. There are also some cases where fighting all the mobs will cause you to spend time you don’t have. Arah paths would take 2 hours or more, instead of 30 mins or less, if a group killed everything. Do you really want to spend the extra few hours for nothing?
• New players can have a hard time actually learning the dungeon because the popular choice is to skip (which is what the OP is blaming us for). The one thing I agree with is that there should be an easier transition for those newer to dungeon running. People who aren’t guided by friends/guildies will likely have a worse first impression of dungeons. However, there are some cases where players will just be so ignorant that they choose not to learn the content, even if there’s a guide or if there’s people showing them the ropes.

I’d like to add that just because I, for one, choose to skip unnecessary mobs doesn’t mean I don’t like dungeons. I like learning the encounters and choosing the right skills, weapons, and traits to help in those scenarios. I have max leveled every profession and learned how to use their skills in every dungeon, both story and explorable. My daily activities with my friends always involves a run through multiple paths of at least one dungeon and a fractal run. I like working on a small, focused team and having a meaningful impact on our success, which is something I can barely get from open world PvE.

In any case, this still leads to the same result: create/join groups that share your interests. We have our reasons to do dungeons using either method. It’s the same end goal, but it’s achieved differently. Non-skippers pointing at skippers and saying they’re not “proper” would be like RP’ers saying we’re ruining their immersion, but guess what? RP’ers are playing with like-minded people and non RP’ers are, too.

I want dungeons to not take more than an hour through normal methods and be an enjoyable rewarding experience from start to finish, but we have our existing design flaw of unnecessary time sinks. I’ll be optimistic and patiently wait for Rob and the dungeon team to come up with a solution.

Ayrilana.1396:

People don’t skip trash because they don’t have the skill to kill them. This is a very absurd statement/conclusion. People skip trash because it’s not worth the time. It also takes skill to skip trash. Go to Arah and you’ll see what I mean.

I also disagree about trash mobs being content. They’re not; just a time sink. Lets hypothetically say they were “content”, would you want to see the same thing over and over? For example, would you watch the cutscenes every time you do dungeon stories just so you don’t miss the content? Do you fight every mob from point A to point B so you don’t miss that content? So you talk to every npc in the game so you don’t miss that content? When you level a new character do you not skip any of the content I just mentioned?

I’m not a fan of skipping mobs, but I am also no a fan of mobs being placed purely as a time sink, or trash.

That post by Robert was interesting insight on the balancing behind it, but at the same time if they can’t find a balance between too time efficient leading to farming and not time efficient enough leading to skipping then why don’t they just remove the trash outright. It seems like a waste having these mobs that 90% of the groups just skip.

In my brief time playing WoW I don’t think I ever recall so much complaining over trash. What was so different about WoW trash vs GW2 trash, besides the fact that WoW trash will keep following.

Oolune.4357:

Despite the ignorant opinions of those such as Shiren, I do, in-fact, enjoy skipping (in some cases) more than fighting.

Can my usual dungeon group clear the content? Easily. It will make things take much longer, but we can do it just fine. However, I would rather make clever use of a mesmer’s portal or a thief’s stealth. I would rather combine the utilities of various professions in such a way as to yield a positive result that doesn’t necessarily involve combat efficiency.

I have always enjoyed the idea of using alternative methods to succeed in dungeons, and Guild Wars 2 is one of the few current MMOs with that ability. Dungeons in other games bored the hell out of me, forcing me to just farm out the proper gear in order to sit there and spam my skills on each mob then move on to the next. It is MUCH more entertaining to pull together all of the party’s utilities and find another method. At least, for me.

And that’s the point. It’s more entertaining for me. No one is forcing you to play with groups that want to skip some of the trash. YOU are trying to force THEM to play a certain way, not the other way around.

What you are missing is that nearly every group expects to skip everything. I’d believe the philosophy of “Play how you want to play”, but the problem is it’s not like 33% or 50% or 10% of people skipping dungeon mobs, it’s nearly every group. When almost your entire player base is skipping dungeon mobs then it ceases to be an option for completing a dungeon as you are required to do it if you want to ever run the dungeon. It’s a sign that there is something deeply wrong with the way your dungeon mobs are designed

Plague of Skippers? Ooooh, is that a new necromancer ability?

I think everyone else has pointed out all the reasons that people skip mobs. Some are just too much effort for too little reward, and many probably want the rewards from the bosses and the end chest more.

It does take skill, or at least some know-how about the mobs, in order to skip them and not die, as quite a few mobs have annoying control effects to try and stop you.

Forcing everyone to fight everything will not make anything better.

I don’t even understand y this is an issue. Even the OP’s of these threads call them trash mobs.

IamDuddits.1692:

Oolune.4357:

Despite the ignorant opinions of those such as Shiren, I do, in-fact, enjoy skipping (in some cases) more than fighting.

Can my usual dungeon group clear the content? Easily. It will make things take much longer, but we can do it just fine. However, I would rather make clever use of a mesmer’s portal or a thief’s stealth. I would rather combine the utilities of various professions in such a way as to yield a positive result that doesn’t necessarily involve combat efficiency.

I have always enjoyed the idea of using alternative methods to succeed in dungeons, and Guild Wars 2 is one of the few current MMOs with that ability. Dungeons in other games bored the hell out of me, forcing me to just farm out the proper gear in order to sit there and spam my skills on each mob then move on to the next. It is MUCH more entertaining to pull together all of the party’s utilities and find another method. At least, for me.

And that’s the point. It’s more entertaining for me. No one is forcing you to play with groups that want to skip some of the trash. YOU are trying to force THEM to play a certain way, not the other way around.

What you are missing is that nearly every group expects to skip everything. I’d believe the philosophy of “Play how you want to play”, but the problem is it’s not like 33% or 50% or 10% of people skipping dungeon mobs, it’s nearly every group. When almost your entire player base is skipping dungeon mobs then it ceases to be an option for completing a dungeon as you are required to do it if you want to ever run the dungeon. It’s a sign that there is something deeply wrong with the way your dungeon mobs are designed

I get the opposite. Rarely do I get into a PUG group and they expect to skip content. If I’m on my Mesmer in certain dungeons, I offer to portal them so that they don’t need to worry about potentially missing up the skip. I.E. I skip it and they take my portal.

Usually I’ll just ask if they want to learn the skip, making sure that they know messing it up might make the dungeon take longer but that successfully learning/employing it means faster dungeon runs. If they go for it, I go for it. If they don’t, I clear the dungeon with them and, assuming they’re not just awesome people who give me a reason to stay in the group, I drop party and repeat the process.

IamDuddits.1692:

In my brief time playing WoW I don’t think I ever recall so much complaining over trash. What was so different about WoW trash vs GW2 trash, besides the fact that WoW trash will keep following.

In WoW, there was never the expectation that you could skip trash. Once developers allow x, players expect to be able to do x. Also, WoW trash was generally much easier than the bosses, whereas in GW2 this may not always be true.

@OP:

so you want to tell us that using toughness, vitality and defensive only skills is efficient?

Shiren.9532:

Unfortunately in the most recent dungeon redesign (AC) imo they made trash mobs even more annoying and take longer to kill. The gravelings have lots of knockbacks (almost everyone hates those) and they are invulnerable a lot of the time increasing the time to defeat them regardless of how high your DPS is. Speed runs and skipping groups are barely playing through content any more. Half the time it doesn’t even feel like a game.

I have to disagree.

I would say that the new AC is the best designed dungeon skip wise (as it was the previous AC).
You can skip many things, but there are skips that can be trickier than the mobs themselves (the trap corridor just after the spider queen) and many of them have a guaranteed reward (few silver on most champions; good amount of silver and a chest, which probably contains trash, at Kholer).
You can skip a lot if you’re looking mainly for dungeons tokens, but you can also kill everything (or almost everything) and be rewarded for it.
Sadly, since COF1 is much more rewarding than any other dungeon, the few people running AC are probably looking for tokens or leveling alts (which makes skipping more efficient).

About gravelings, they have a lot less HP than before and there are only 2 of them which have knockdowns. The one that leaps and the one that tunnels, which does it in AOE (marked with a big red circle on the ground) and goes invulnerable for a long time after it ONLY IF someone is caught inside.

Vargamonth.2047:

About gravelings, they have a lot less HP than before and there are only 2 of them which have knockdowns. The one that leaps and the one that tunnels, which does it in AOE (marked with a big red circle on the ground) and goes invulnerable for a long time after it ONLY IF someone is caught inside.

The champion gravelings still have a ton of HP, and go underground every few seconds. The chance they knockback someone is pretty big when fighting in the tight corridors were camera issues are a common problem, or while being knocked around by another Graveling mob (since there’s multiple gravelings in a group, and a lot of them can CC players). Not only do they knockback players when they popup from underground, but they have another knockback after they popped up and a player stands too close (why they do this, I have no idea, but it’s kitten annoying). Then there’s the problem with graveling champions going invulnerable for several seconds if they hit someone, which happens commonly. You only need 1 bad (or unlucky) player in your team to screw over the rest. Then they also avoid hits while attacking, making the thing even more annoying to kill. Sometimes I have trouble getting even 1 hit on them between their tunneling, invulnerability and avoids before they tunnel again.

I really didn’t mind killing the graveling groups in the corridors before the final bosses pre-patch (although even then they could get pretty annoying sometimes). Their current moveset is 10x more annoying to deal with, the 5 or so silver that they drop isn’t worth the pain. It’s no wonder literally every group’s skipping these now.
This is coming from someone who generally prefers killing mobs over skipping them.

Adding in my own opinion re-modifying from previous posts:

Efficiency is getting the objective done with a combination of the least resources / time / effort.
Completion is getting everything done in the instance you are in.

Where as optimizers / skippers go for time based runs, they are not truly efficient.
Where as dungeon explorers like to kill everything, they are not truly efficient.
Where as alt-a-holics go for multiple runs, they are not truly efficient.

Efficiency is min maxing damage dealing / absorption on skills, speed killing / completing objectives, spending less button clicks to finish an objective, doing the minimum amount of events to get by. Efficiency is also about not dying, no armor repair, everyone being at near max health.

But that aside to a very easy solution to the skipping problem.

I’ve been saying this a few times before:
Change tokens rewarded at the end of the level to be based on amount of events / bosses cleared – baseline minimum effort gives you 20 tokens (without bags) every event done gives you 20 more and all trash mobs gives you an additional 20-40 tokens. Daily DR should reduce 2nd runs to 50% of that and down to 25% on 3-4-5th runs.
This will satisfy ALL groups – Dungeon runners will be happy cause they will get more reward for the time they put in, optimizer runners will figure out which bosses and events are best to do for the reward and get up to 40 tokens but be satisfied with thier time spent, alt-a-holics will get enough tokens to equip all thier alts, casuals will do what they feel like in a bunch of optional content, ect.

The thing about skipping is that sometimes it can be more exhilerating and fun than actually fighting the mob you’re skipping. I know this is the case in Twilight Arbor and in some ways Honor of the Waves. Other dungeons I haven’t really tried but I imaging it can be similiar.

imo skipping is not the problem. bad loot is.

hardloop von edgehoven.8512:

same reason over and over again:
“skip this”
“Y”
“time efficieny”
then same story over and over again:
first one dies on mobs running behind the leading skip/rusher
second one…
and so on.
end of story: time efficiency -100%

if u ask y they skip the boss xy, u almost always end up being told that they NEVER EVER tried to manage him, they just HEARD its hard and EVRYONE is skipping…
people who were running 100 times Ascalons never even heard of special chest after kholer, never figured out burrows tactics and so on…

i t is a painintheass to find proper people taking their time and have fun doing the ONE AND ONLY maximum efficient runs:
clear evrything, get most money out of it, most exp (in points AND knowledge) and most loot in the shortest time possible. oh and most fun for my part
(we managed to clear the “so-called” harder paths of some dungeons even with 4 newbs with subpar equip so noone tell me its too hard)

THATS EFFICIENCY FOLKS.

and dont forget to equip toughness and vitality and use some more skills than the one who make damage…

So I’m zerker and I run arah and coe daily with other full zerkers in the party. We’ve all run the dungeon countless times. Rarely does anyone drop and almost never does anyone die (EVEN WHEN SKIPPING!!!). We skip all the trash in arah because we don’t feel like spending another hour per path clearing meat shields with 1 shot abilities and getting nothing for our rewards. Have you ever spent the time clearing arah? Very very much so not worth it. So why is the 7 hells should we be forced to clear the dungeon? Even if they did drop loot it isn’t even close to worth the time to farm.

Put it this way. First time doing p4 with my guild, we cleared everything. The dungeon took us 4 hours. No one got any good loot. The very next time, we skipped all the trash and guess what? The dungeon took us 40 minutes from start to finish. Now THAT’S efficiency!

And you want to force a group to clear that for what reason?

And how do you figure skipping = 4 dead teamates the 1st time, 3 the 2nd, 2 the 3rd, every time you try to run? Skipping means you have 5 alive people at the next boss ready to kill it and move on.

Your idea is great for helping noobs learn but is insanely horrible for anyone with even the slightest bit of experience and/or skill. It would make this game even more grindy than it already is and the dungeons would be significantly less fun. Each path of everything taking roughly 1 hour longer and getting no monetary to compensate while you fight generic mobs with generic mechanics on your way to get to the 1 part of the dungeon that’s somewhat unique. Problem is now you’re bored and annoyed at how tedius the whole experience has been and you just want it over with. Sounds like fun!

Btw if you want to know just how fun having to clear a dungeon can be, join up a fractals 40s and do dredge and do it without a thief. Super super fun

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Path_of_least_resistance

Most trash mobs have bad drops and excessive health.

MOST.

Lindbur.2537:

Most trash mobs have bad drops and excessive health.

MOST.

Some very limited examples of this are the destroyer crablings in coe p3 and the jade colossus that you’re forced to kill in fractals. They both drop good lodestones sometimes and don’t take too long to kill. They are also completely NOT out of the way and are melee so they group making aoeing them down very easy. Very few other mobs in dungeons are worth the time or the effort.

1 thing I forgot to mention about the main post is about kholer. You’re right on that one. There is absolutely 0 reason to skip him. He drops silver, a bag, and a chest. Same deal with the troll (except he doesn’t drop a chest). If the grou kitten o bad that it can’t manage to kill the thing then that’s 1 thing. But to skip it without even trying is just a waste. Skipping ahead without even giving the choice on silver bosses is only your way of telling the team that you don’t have confidence in them. I’ve had pugs tell me that certain comps just can’t beat Kholer and that w/e ours was, wasn’t one that can beat him. No question about it he was bad. The other 4 of us killed kholer with no troubles as the corpse watched a horrible comp kill kholer effortlessly.

Reason people skip- not worth killing the mobs.
Done the dungeon a hundred times before.
Just here to get the reward at the end and move on to the next dungeon.
Players are not to be blamed for poor dungeon design. If you make mobs with a ton of HP and give them crap drops, do you really think people are gonna kill them? No. We take the logical option and plow through to the end for the real reward. Time saved, is time used to plow through to the end of the next dungeon for another reward.

If you want to clear the whole dungeon, advertise for it. There’s people out there, just not as many, and for good reason.

Edit- Yes, Kholer is worth killing. People who want to skip him are not doing so to save time vs. money, they are doing so because they lack the skill to kill him. At that point I really question how the rest of the dungeon is going to go.

I don’t see any reason why not to skip. IMO that’s exactly the way is supposed to be played. Skip as much as possible, pretty much like a hard mode.

Ayrilana.1396:

It also takes skill to skip trash. Go to Arah and you’ll see what I mean.

No it doesn’t. What? Using stability and damage mitigating spells are strategy now? Jumping to places you are not supposed to is strategy now? Using exploits to shoot yourself over a wall (that would open upon killing the trash) is strategy now?

I totally understand that killing trash is not worth the time, loot wise. But oh so many players on this game who feel Lupicus experts, who jump off on the first Lupicus wipe because “no, you can’t do it, I am not going to waste my time with you” die for the trash mob. Yes, killing them and countering their combos require a lot more skill than skipping them, which is all about stability, taking few damage and running. So hard.

Rash.6514:

Ayrilana.1396:

It also takes skill to skip trash. Go to Arah and you’ll see what I mean.

No it doesn’t. What? Using stability and damage mitigating spells are strategy now? Jumping to places you are not supposed to is strategy now? Using exploits to shoot yourself over a wall (that would open upon killing the trash) is strategy now?

you really need to reread what rash wrote there bud. he said takes skill to skip trash. he didn’t say takes skill to exploit a dungeon and skip to bosses (exploits of which have been fixes since months ago). If you don’t believe him then do us all a favour and just click on path 2 arah and try to get to belka no problem. There’s only 1 deadeye there and only a few pulls. If you really want a challenge then don’t blow the charges and try to run through the wall of mobs that drop loot and die fast-ish.

I totally understand that killing trash is not worth the time, loot wise. But oh so many players on this game who feel Lupicus experts, who jump off on the first Lupicus wipe because “no, you can’t do it, I am not going to waste my time with you” die for the trash mob. Yes, killing them and countering their combos require a lot more skill than skipping them, which is all about stability, taking few damage and running. So hard.

again, you don’t know what you’re talking about here. If someone’s rage quitting after 1 attempt then they clearly aren’t “experts”. Now I have no idea why you went there with that b/c that had nothing to do with the topic at hand.

And exactly what combo are you talking about with the trash mobs since they don’t have any. The illusionist drops aoes on you that kill you in 2s and has an auto attack. The hunters summon birds and has an auto attack that bounces. If you’re talking about the ring of warding risen and others helping him, that isn’t really a combo since they don’t synergize. It’s just 2 trash mobs doing their 2 basic abilities and if they happen to hit the same target… well unlucky that target. Usually they don’t.

never noticed you could interupt his granting stability. I have however tried to scorpion wire him when he didn’t have stability and no one was even close to in range. Soon as the wire hits he’d turn and summon birds… that’s when you notice he got stability when the scorpion wire touched his pretty face. Probably happened to me a dozen+ times. It’s gotten to the point where I use wire as a long range single target agro when I’m afraid trick shot will bounce to something.

You have to start the interrupt chain with mes focus 4 or something that does not do damage. While he’s knocked he can’t use the warhorn skill Once he’s standing for 0.1 seconds that seems to be enough to let him use it.
Anyway, why even permacc’ing mobs instead of using los and 100b to burn them down quick.
Still, skipping will result in more money/time. Also Kholer in AC. A run without kholer takes about 6-7 minutes duo, a run with killing kholer takes about 9-10 minutes duo. So thats basically 3 minutes for ~20 silver which i don’t feel yhat it is very rewarding.

swiftpaw.6397:

Reason people skip- not worth killing the mobs.
Done the dungeon a hundred times before.
Just here to get the reward at the end and move on to the next dungeon.
Players are not to be blamed for poor dungeon design. If you make mobs with a ton of HP and give them crap drops, do you really think people are gonna kill them? No. We take the logical option and plow through to the end for the real reward. Time saved, is time used to plow through to the end of the next dungeon for another reward.

If you want to clear the whole dungeon, advertise for it. There’s people out there, just not as many, and for good reason.

Edit- Yes, Kholer is worth killing. People who want to skip him are not doing so to save time vs. money, they are doing so because they lack the skill to kill him. At that point I really question how the rest of the dungeon is going to go.

When I form groups I pretty much tell them we are doing Kholer until he dies. I’m patient enough to let them learn the boss because skipping him every time isn’t helping them, and thankfully I play a guardian so I can always pop stability if needed.

And I agree, it blows my mind that people still can’t get Kholers mechanics down.

I find suggesting to try Kohler at least once and skip if we wipe works fairly well. There’s still a lot of groups that skip anyway, but some don’t mind giving it at least one try.

I am one of the people that prefer to kill mobs than skipping. My philosophy of such things is always abt maximizing the margin for recouping from mistakes, ie if u get killed and have to run through an area again its easier to do if enemies are cleared. More so when skipping such mobs are very difficult (i dont dispute skipping does require skill, at times…), and more so if u have to do it alone or without the full party. Some mobs i think are meant to be bypassed (like in CM) though I do not feel the same for any mob in CoF1.

That said, people have a right to do things the way they want to, or play as they would prefer, and as such there will always be groups that would skip as much as possible to ‘maximize time efficiency’. So the best solution is of course to make your own group if you prefer not to skip content.

I would however like to add that while there will always some of us that prefer not to skip, to whack as many enemies as we can in our path, but ‘making our own group’ can sometimes be daunting. with SOOO many other ppl and groups would rather be doing speedruns/skip-a-lot-of-stuff, it can take some time and effort to gather a full party of like minded content-clearers. This sort of thing does lead to frustration so I can understand if some end up attacking their perceived source of irritation; namely the constant demand of ppl wanting to skip content.

CO has content, called Alerts. Some of the Alerts are Two-Minute-Drills. You have two minutes to burst down the boss. No annoying mazes to run through, the only trash is right there with the boss, usually burned down with AoE that also affects the boss. Rewards received in times that would make speed-runners blush. Even the other types of Alerts where you have to defeat x groups of minions before you can get to the boss rarely take more than 5 minutes. Could this be the MMO dungeon content of the future? Given the interest in getting a dungeon run done quickly, I sometimes wonder.

At least GW2 dungeon design offers players who want to do a dungeon the long way the option. Now, if they could learn to find people who think like they do… Whenever the devs get around to an LFG tool, they’d better put in a check box for speed run v. kill ’em all.

I’ll play the way I want thank you very much. By the sounds of things you have too much time on your hands, fighting pointless trash mobs is nothing but a waste of time. Many bosses don’t reward well enough for the time it takes to kill them.

Plus when you’re trying to farm a dungeon doing the same things again and again gets old fast, so any way to speed things up is great.

All in all find a group that thinks the same way as you, just don’t think you can tell others what to do with a game they paid for.

Adam.4103:

I’ll play the way I want thank you very much. By the sounds of things you have too much time on your hands, fighting pointless trash mobs is nothing but a waste of time. Many bosses don’t reward well enough for the time it takes to kill them.

Plus when you’re trying to farm a dungeon doing the same things again and again gets old fast, so any way to speed things up is great.

All in all find a group that thinks the same way as you, just don’t think you can tell others what to do with a game they paid for.

so if i have the rights to play the game as i want, i can now feel free to do the following stuff, according to all those skipper’s “i can play however i want”-logic?
- exploiting (hey, it’s in the game sometimes and until its fixed, i can (ab)use it, right? i mean i can play however i want…)
- cheating (i’ve paid for the game, so lemme cheat plox)
- griefing (my 50 bucks, my game so i do it because i can)

“you can’t tell me what to do so you have no rights to complain if i do one of the above stuff”
#EPICLOGIC

dungeon skipping would be exploiting flawed dungeon design. i guess it’s just easier for a-net to clean up the mess afterwards, because so many (MANY) players are doing speedruns right now. would complicate things to prohibit speedruns until those dungeon design flaws are fixed.
AC and CM are examples of a better, fixed design. (though, they’re still a bit flawed)
CoE is an example of a good dungeon design. (the reason, why it’s the least played dungeon, i guess…)

the rewards at the end are not supposed to be obtained within 5-7 minutes, you know…slashing those “trashmobs” is part of getting those rewards.
fully completing a GW2 dungeon is also not some sort of 6-hour odyssey like in many k-grinders. well, skipping is a major part in many traditional mmorpg’s, considered and intended by developers. [“/say: everybody to the left wall until next room, k”]

tl;dr
a game have rules. dungeons in GW2 have their rules.
flawed dungeon designs making it possible for players to bypass these rules.
conclusion: skippers are exploiting.

it’s quite a shame, that speedruns and skipping strategies are so openly postet and discussed at these forums…not very promising for the future.

wauwi.9162:

so if i have the rights to play the game as i want, i can now feel free to do the following stuff, according to all those skipper’s “i can play however i want”-logic?
- exploiting (hey, it’s in the game sometimes and until its fixed, i can (ab)use it, right? i mean i can play however i want…)
- cheating (i’ve paid for the game, so lemme cheat plox)
- griefing (my 50 bucks, my game so i do it because i can)

“you can’t tell me what to do so you have no rights to complain if i do one of the above stuff”
#EPICLOGIC

dungeon skipping would be exploiting flawed dungeon design. i guess it’s just easier for a-net to clean up the mess afterwards, because so many (MANY) players are doing speedruns right now. would complicate things to prohibit speedruns until those dungeon design flaws are fixed.
AC and CM are examples of a better, fixed design. (though, they’re still a bit flawed)
CoE is an example of a good dungeon design. (the reason, why it’s the least played dungeon, i guess…)

the rewards at the end are not supposed to be obtained within 5-7 minutes, you know…slashing those “trashmobs” is part of getting those rewards.
fully completing a GW2 dungeon is also not some sort of 6-hour odyssey like in many k-grinders. well, skipping is a major part in many traditional mmorpg’s, considered and intended by developers. [“/say: everybody to the left wall until next room, k”]

tl;dr
a game have rules. dungeons in GW2 have their rules.
flawed dungeon designs making it possible for players to bypass these rules.
conclusion: skippers are exploiting.

it’s quite a shame, that speedruns and skipping strategies are so openly postet and discussed at these forums…not very promising for the future.

Idk what you’re getting angry about at the start there but on the skipping=exploiting, well you’re 100% wrong on that one. If it was exploiting, then there wouldn’t be leash ranging in the game at all. Robert Houdra came on here and told the community (don’t remember the post name but it’s in here) that he could make it so mobs never despawn but he (or anybody else) is not going to do that because there’s nothing wrong with skipping. Instead they look into why people are skipping and try to make the decision to not skip desirable.

Tldr, if skipping = exploiting in other games that you played then okay. Thing is, this isn’t other games, this is GW2 where skipping is legit practice.

thing is that things tends to get worse and worse, cos players are ACTIVELY supported to imitate playstyle by those who actually cleared evrything a thousand times with non-pugs, and starting to misuse other newbies of gw2 for skipping mobs and for me the most intriguing fact SKIPPING THE BOSSES.

pug players arent dumb (we FULLY cleared ac last night 3 times in a row in not time, WITH PUG group, yes we made kholer too in no time, we explained evrything and we cleared pathes from mobs so evrybody has empty pathes and not wiping on mobs while running from waypoints back losing time and nerves).
we had probs with ghosteater but noone wnats to leave. took us 1h til evrybody got the mechanics inkluding nasty bugs there.

i dont care if someone is skipping, i care about palyer culture and that skipping pest leads in a wrong direction.

if its all about the argument evrybody plays like he wants, ok..

we got some nice little tricks to plaguestrike back if we get some skip-“pr0s” NEVER

some really niiice little tricks to annoy the hell out these skipping pest.
and i dont mean provoking wipes because this would be waaaay too cheap and short.

and to all those writing about my grammatics, its not my native language, but at least i know a bit of a second one. how about u? or did u skip that in school too?

I don’t believe that anyone was calling pug players dumb. It’s just that you don’t know what you will get with them. You could get good players or horrible players. Pug is just a generic term used to describe random groups.

Problem: bad pugs suggest skipping trash mobs. Bad pugs subsequently die trying to skip trash because they are bads.

So your solution is to have them do a full clear? What makes you think people too terrible to skip trash are going to be good enough not to wipe repeatedly doing a full clear?

My suggestion:

1. Create a score system that’s earned at the end of the dungeon.
2. Loot will be based on the rating you earned.
3. You earn high rank by killing enemies along the path, no deaths, no downs and how fast you can do it.
4. Top rewards are only obtained by killing all of the enemies along the way.
5. New leaderboards are implemented.
6. New cosmetic items can be earned by obtaining personal high scores.

I can’t run from Alphard to Brie when drunk.

I thought the title said Plague of Strippers and I was very intrigued. Not so much now.