Poison trail is way over the top(?)

Poison trail is way over the top(?)

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Posted by: DavyMcB.1603

DavyMcB.1603

Long duration, multiple stacks, super long trail, no cooldown

Now plus Cliffside

Limited space, stay close -> agony , run away -> poison, random 2-shotting champs with nowhere to run

82 cliffeside is 100000000000000000x harder than lv100 Mai Trin lol

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Posted by: Sparks The Rescue.5043

Sparks The Rescue.5043

My first thought was “Thank god I main druid.” I can’t imagine doing it w/out one, or atleast a healing tempest. Last night was my first night I’ve ever had a party whipe on my druid in fractals, and it was in cliffiside. We had some bad RNG w/ the random fractal insta and between the bombs and poison trail it snowballed and GG. Granted, it was first night of the patch so people are still getting familiar w/ the mechanics, but it still hurt inside a little bit.

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Posted by: DarkNighT.7319

DarkNighT.7319

Yeah it is way way overpowered, and completely shuts down melee, my scrapper is pretty useless now which is a shame, please fix this poison trail because, there’s a difference between hard and utterly frustrating for no reason.

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Posted by: OnizukaBR.8537

OnizukaBR.8537

My first thought was “Thank god I main druid.” I can’t imagine doing it w/out one, or atleast a healing tempest. Last night was my first night I’ve ever had a party whipe on my druid in fractals, and it was in cliffiside. We had some bad RNG w/ the random fractal insta and between the bombs and poison trail it snowballed and GG. Granted, it was first night of the patch so people are still getting familiar w/ the mechanics, but it still hurt inside a little bit.

I for one really welcome this. Now a healer have a role in a place that isnt raid. You shouldnt need a healer for every fractal. But having fews that having a healer is really good is welcomed more diversity. Now i can use my zerk dh. Viper dh and zealot dh deppending which fractal im doing its a move in a good direction.
people that like to play zealot dh or ventari should love this changes as raids normally only want druid or tempest for heals

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Posted by: Malediktus.3740

Malediktus.3740

I think the poison trail instability totally ruined fractals. It is even less fun than the old stabilities.

One of my 30 accounts (Malediktus.9250).

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Posted by: CptAurellian.9537

CptAurellian.9537

Haven’t played Cliffside with that instability yet, but yesterday in Thaumanova and Molten Furnace it created little to no problems. Melee players need to be a little bit more careful, but that’s it.

Warning! This post may contain traces of irony, sarcasm and peanuts.

There is no loyalty without betrayal. -Ann Smiley

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Posted by: Amicable Pugs.4503

Amicable Pugs.4503

Do only 90+ levels, ez fix.

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Posted by: XPilo.5862

XPilo.5862

Long duration, multiple stacks, super long trail, no cooldown

Now plus Cliffside

Limited space, stay close -> agony , run away -> poison, random 2-shotting champs with nowhere to run

82 cliffeside is 100000000000000000x harder than lv100 Mai Trin lol

You forgot the Horrik to unleash the cannons. Just wente every place have poison or in in fire.

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Posted by: Boogiepop Void.6473

Boogiepop Void.6473

Also you forget that we still have social awkwardness at 90+, which makes the corridor in the arm seal section of cliffside a death trap. You don’t HAVE anywhere to go to avoid the issue; the whole fractal is about limiting your available area. Thaumnova and molten furnace aren’t. There is a reason everyone always did 82, not 94, for the T4 Cliffside when it was up.

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Posted by: DavyMcB.1603

DavyMcB.1603

Also you forget that we still have social awkwardness at 90+, which makes the corridor in the arm seal section of cliffside a death trap. You don’t HAVE anywhere to go to avoid the issue; the whole fractal is about limiting your available area. Thaumnova and molten furnace aren’t. There is a reason everyone always did 82, not 94, for the T4 Cliffside when it was up.

My team got fed up with 82 so we did 94 instead and it was super smooth. Social awkwardness isn’t bad when you don’t literally stand on top of one another.

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Posted by: Mourningcry.9428

Mourningcry.9428

Haven’t done Cliffside @ 82 yet, 94 was fine, but from what has been said, it looks like these groups ate attempting to apply the old start of stack- pull- strike etc.

After the original fractal change to 100 lvls this strat also proved inefficient.

Can’t search for it now but there were a few videos (maybe from King?) showing alternative strats. A good mez, thief or eng or necro might be a good starting point. Low Man strats might also be an alternative.

I’ll have to experience it before actually taking a stance. But i have a feeling is more of an issue of trying to apply a strategy which was designed to be used under different conditions and simply is no longer as viable as it once was.

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Posted by: Jerus.4350

Jerus.4350

It’s more than just an anti-stacking thing. In fact I’d say what it pushes you to do is keep the enemies from moving at all for optimal results. On Cliffside you can easily have the entire ‘safe area’ on the Chest seal covered in green if you spread out and the enemies pick different targets.

Overall though the mechanic and idea is ok, it’s just quite strong for such a fickle effect. Fanatic comes in and heartseekers across the group, gotta move. And, that’d be fine, if it wasn’t just so much damage so quick along with weakness. I don’t want to complain too much until I try it more, but right now it makes me want boon thieves back >.<

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Posted by: CptAurellian.9537

CptAurellian.9537

Poison trail is orders of magnitude better than the stupid boon thieves. Did Cliffside an hour ago and while it’s certainly not a stroll in the park, the instabilities are anything but overpowered. Seems mainly like a l2p issue to me.

Warning! This post may contain traces of irony, sarcasm and peanuts.

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Posted by: rfdarko.4639

rfdarko.4639

The main issue i have with the poison is that the damage extends farther then the visual effect, to the point where even if you are trying to max melee enemies you can get hit by the edge of it. Pulling mobs tight together and spamming blinds can help since the source of the poison is the mob; the issue with that on cliffside is there are chanters constantly trickling in, sliming thing up as they come even before you have a chance to pull & burst.

The other thing that made it kind of frustrating was that combined with the merging fractal instability. Skyhammer lazer covering the entire platform while trying to no die from fire and poison on the chest seal, getting mai’s cannon shots fill the arm seal corridor as your trying to dodge away from slime puddles… My group had a lot of laughs last night at how unlucky we were sometimes but I imagining that kind of stuff will get old.

I’d like it if the radius of the poison was reduced a little bit to better match the aoe, or at least give it a circular indicator because trying to melee at all is a pixel perfect dance with death currently. I’m also not a fan of the champion rabbit as a random spawn, he’s too easily obscured by particle effect and very often has the same effect as “one party member downs randomly to nothing”. It doesn’t feel like it has the same counter-play as mossman which you can see coming and wont 100-0 you instantly.

guildless hobo who likes to solo – [x]

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Posted by: Boogiepop Void.6473

Boogiepop Void.6473

I have tried to do Cliffside 94 today for over 3 hours and over 30 full team swaps from LFG. Spent over an hour just trying to clear the chest, and the arms are no possible. 82 is so bad with poison trail that we gave up before we even reached the chest due to anticipating how bad it would be.

Maybe if you have a guild or an organized group to work with, but for anyone working from LFG, 82 is now the most difficult fractal in the game and 94 is in the top 5 (none of which are in 95-100).

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Posted by: Famine.7915

Famine.7915

And here I was only doing the high level dailies, finishing them fast and still ignkring the kitten out of the instabilities… :/

Vee/Volk
Maguuma – Predatory Instinct [HUNT]
Necromancer

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Posted by: Aenaos.8160

Aenaos.8160

Definitely way too punishing for melee builds,and offensive trait lines.

I was delighted to see they removed boon thieves,since I run a DH in T4,and it always seemed that instability was unfair to Guardians.
But now I can’t even use melee weapons.
If you try to unload a GS burst,even under the cover of SoC,you will most likely get downed.
Do we all have to run support builds and range DPS?

And what change did that bring in terms of most desired classes?
0.Absolutely 0.
Teams have even less reasons to select a DH over a Necro since now we can’t even provide with adequate burst,and we have to resort to ranged pew pew weapons for most of our dps.

-Win a pip,lose a pip,win a pip,lose a pip,lose a pip,
lose a pip,win 2 pips,lose a pip,lose a pip…………..-
-Go go Espartz.-

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Posted by: xTiMeBoMBx.2863

xTiMeBoMBx.2863

We’re once again experiencing the negative effect of an across the board change. There’s a reason why so many people are frustrated about cliffside. The classes in this game were meant to be capable of doing anything on their own and there are videos of different classes soloing dungeons/bosses. The notion of needing certain classes to survive is what “trinity” type games are for and gw2 isn’t a trinity base game. Forcing the public to have certain classes to be able to complete objectives is how the raid dungeons in this game are empty most of the time. Make things challenging to a point where you don’t force people to be a certain class to be able to join. What this is going to do is alienate certain classes from doing the higher tier fractals in the future if it hasn’t already. Forcing people to spend more time leveling and regear when they already have a geared out character is just poor judgement.

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Posted by: OnizukaBR.8537

OnizukaBR.8537

We’re once again experiencing the negative effect of an across the board change. There’s a reason why so many people are frustrated about cliffside. The classes in this game were meant to be capable of doing anything on their own and there are videos of different classes soloing dungeons/bosses. The notion of needing certain classes to survive is what “trinity” type games are for and gw2 isn’t a trinity base game. Forcing the public to have certain classes to be able to complete objectives is how the raid dungeons in this game are empty most of the time. Make things challenging to a point where you don’t force people to be a certain class to be able to join. What this is going to do is alienate certain classes from doing the higher tier fractals in the future if it hasn’t already. Forcing people to spend more time leveling and regear when they already have a geared out character is just poor judgement.

But any class can do anything in GW2, you dont need X class, if you think you need any class to do any fractal, well i wont discuss it, lets just say that you are wrong.
Just because T4 fractal are not face roll, and just like swamp, now cliffside T4 isnt too, it doesnt mean is poor judgment, actually is great judgment, as players are getting quality 5-man endgame content, instead of boring.

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Posted by: daw.4923

daw.4923

i dont care rly,melle is so useless few last months,just all get viper necro,melle getting punished over and over….
*get more carefull….. ye you can dodge around all you want,dealing 0 dmg,but you forgeting that necro will still stack 40 bleeds from range with 30k hp happily spaming 1 ,so ye just reroll.

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Posted by: xTiMeBoMBx.2863

xTiMeBoMBx.2863

We’re once again experiencing the negative effect of an across the board change. There’s a reason why so many people are frustrated about cliffside. The classes in this game were meant to be capable of doing anything on their own and there are videos of different classes soloing dungeons/bosses. The notion of needing certain classes to survive is what “trinity” type games are for and gw2 isn’t a trinity base game. Forcing the public to have certain classes to be able to complete objectives is how the raid dungeons in this game are empty most of the time. Make things challenging to a point where you don’t force people to be a certain class to be able to join. What this is going to do is alienate certain classes from doing the higher tier fractals in the future if it hasn’t already. Forcing people to spend more time leveling and regear when they already have a geared out character is just poor judgement.

But any class can do anything in GW2, you dont need X class, if you think you need any class to do any fractal, well i wont discuss it, lets just say that you are wrong.
Just because T4 fractal are not face roll, and just like swamp, now cliffside T4 isnt too, it doesnt mean is poor judgment, actually is great judgment, as players are getting quality 5-man endgame content, instead of boring.

What are you even smoking? have you seen the lfg lately? it’s mainly necros, druid, dh, and heal focus ele in tier 4. players are forced to play a certain class to succeed. “quality end game” as in players forced to play a certain class right? there’s a difference between a challenge and mobs with toxic trails constantly spawning and leaping on you. the trails also cover the whole platform. i’m already level 100 fractal but what about new people or people barely making it to tier 4? casual players won’t even bother because they don’t want to spend 30mins-1hr on something that used to be 10 minutes. As of now people are already rejecting certain class that they deem not fitting a specific fractal. people already reject classes for new raid dungeon and now we have the same thing for fractal. great job on “quality end game.”

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Posted by: SleepingDragon.1596

SleepingDragon.1596

Thank you Anet for the nice update. It allowed me to get rid of 3 fractal tonics for something useful…

Now for the negative comment. Please fix this update to the stages. I don’t want to see Mossman looking for a home everywhere. I got enough of the worm from Jade Maw. They are not worth putting into every stage. It’s pointless and creates a ugly taste for the stage. They do no damage and makes no difference other than making this game more lame.

What the heck is that poison trail thing? It’s another kittened swamp attempt to make it challenging but instead becomes a turn off for the game. I had to wait for people to leave the party so we can get a all necro group to get through this. This again makes PUG not too ideal. Let’s not introduced changes that detracts from the game. Chaos and the updates to Snowblind are great changes. Make changes similar to Snowblind. Long boring fights into shorter more challenging fights is what is preferred…

-S o S-

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Posted by: Mourningcry.9428

Mourningcry.9428

Ok, got a chance to play around on 84… initial impression is that the trail is a solid mechanic, however, I do have to agree that it’s a bit over tuned for just a casual run. With a coordinated group, less of an issue – at least on this map due to the nature of the acolyte’s mobility, and arena mobility. As it stands there’s no reason to do 82 over 94.

As Jerus mentioned above, controlling the groups and quick burns seem to be one approach.

Perhaps either reducing the radius, duration, or application (i.e. not constant but in bursts with a cooldown) would make it more manageable.

On a separate note, the instabilities overall are well done, and are a lot of fun. Doing Maw @ 98 we got a nice surprise which made an otherwise boring fight more engaging.

I think it Mists Convergence gives the developers a lot of options to spice things up… Having Duo make a sudden appearance, or the Captain would really make for some interesting stories…. why should Mossy have all the fun?

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Posted by: Henry.5713

Henry.5713

Really depends on how they approach the problem about adding a challenge. There is a fine line between challenging and annoying. With everyone having a different idea on how hard or how easy they want raids to be on top of that.
However, don’t think there should ever be mechanics which simply punish players for playing well. Boon stealing having been the biggest culprit of that. You can not give guardians relatiation on every skill and then add something like that. It is like adding something that completely reflects 20% of the outgoing condition damage back to the players or allowing monsters to steal 50% of the outgoing healing.

It probably looked like it would lead to players being careful about boons instead of going crazy on boons like before. But as players take the easiest way out always they simply jump on classes which do not even have to face these challenges.

Challenges which make people pay attention to their movements, even challenges which make healing or boon spam less effective without outright turning it against the players are fine. Anything that punishes people for playing badly is totally fine.

We might need some rebalancing and a look at certain fractal level – instability combinations but it feels like we are on the right track.
I certainly enjoy fractals more than I have in a long time (and I main a druid – always had an easy party spot for even easier T4 runs.)

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Posted by: Amadan.9451

Amadan.9451

poison trail + social akwardness= no healer can stand it!
we did it cliffside with that combo of instability and we couldn’t get pass the belly seal.
we had a tempest healer but there was no way we could do it. so we decided to do it on a higher level with no poison trail and we succeded. it was definitely easier

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Posted by: CptAurellian.9537

CptAurellian.9537

If you take that much damage from social awkwardness with its tiny circles, you obviously kitten up your positioning.

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Posted by: daw.4923

daw.4923

i think its fine,all mobs shoud get extra boon- return dmg for everyone in 2 m radius around.

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Posted by: Amadan.9451

Amadan.9451

If you take that much damage from social awkwardness with its tiny circles, you obviously kitten up your positioning.

well most of the damage in cliffside with poison trail and agony is due to the fact that both impair your healing skills in a tiny places, so don’t tell me you can do it no problem with those 2 instabilities together, because at higher level with no poison trail but still social akwardness we just stacked and face tanked everything

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Posted by: CptAurellian.9537

CptAurellian.9537

Adapt. It’s not as if stacking in one single spot was the only possible strategy. I had little issues with my mesmer in Cliffside 82 and I did not have a ranged weapon equipped at all.

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Posted by: Zem.4139

Zem.4139

delete reward from dongeon , and loose all dongeon community..
don’t learn from this misstake , do one other.
delete possibility to done swamp , all player stop to play this one.
don’t learn from this misstake , do one other.
add stupid poison 2 shot in fractal to loose all fractal player. will not fix it.
fix in your dream.

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Posted by: SlyDevil.3952

SlyDevil.3952

The main issue i have with the poison is that the damage extends farther then the visual effect, to the point where even if you are trying to max melee enemies you can get hit by the edge of it.

Max melee is around 242, effective max melee is around 200, the radius of the circles was listed as 80.

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Posted by: CptAurellian.9537

CptAurellian.9537

Max melee was indeed no problem on my mesmer with sword.

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Posted by: littlemunster.1059

littlemunster.1059

delete reward from dongeon , and loose all dongeon community..
don’t learn from this misstake , do one other.
delete possibility to done swamp , all player stop to play this one.
don’t learn from this misstake , do one other.
add stupid poison 2 shot in fractal to loose all fractal player. will not fix it.
fix in your dream.

according to the people on this forum, it’s only a few who don’t like this change. another popular response is to “git gud”. let’s all share same smoke and say it’s few who are affected.

The BG Super Munster!

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Posted by: rfdarko.4639

rfdarko.4639

The main issue i have with the poison is that the damage extends farther then the visual effect, to the point where even if you are trying to max melee enemies you can get hit by the edge of it.

Max melee is around 242, effective max melee is around 200, the radius of the circles was listed as 80.

I didn’t have as much trouble with the bosses so it could have been the way the mobs moved around in large groups that made it look like one big puddle. I’m still not a huge fan of how the visual affect reads but it’s probably something that will feel more intuitive in time.

guildless hobo who likes to solo – [x]

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Posted by: Cynz.9437

Cynz.9437

Didn’t have much issue with poison trail as thief (melee 100%), i wish visual was more… visible.

All is Vain~
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Posted by: Harper.4173

Harper.4173

This instability is completely ruining fractals with a lot of mobs. The fields can overlap and as a melee you become almost non-viable.

If here they fall they shall live on when ever you cry “For Ascalon!”