+Power+Ferocity+Conditon damage
1) That’s not the right subthread to post this.
2) You can check yourself (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Attribute_combinations).
3) Yes, it doesn’t exist in PvE, closest ones are Rampager (precision instead of ferocity), viper (again precision in piace of ferocity and an extra expertise).
you forgot sinister
What do you want ferocity for if you’re not gonna have any critical chance?
Some classes can cap crit chance without much (or any) precision from gear. For example, necro gets 50% crit chance from a target having 25 vuln. Don’t forget the 20% from fury.
Right now a condi necro has a fair amount of wasted stats, reaching about 120% crit chance.
Edit: actually its way worse than that. Due to trait target the weak (2% crit per condition), if we assume target has 7 conditions (burning, bleed, torment, poision, vuln, cripple and either chilled or weakness), then condi necro is actually gaining about 15% crit chance from that trait alone.
15% from target the weak
50% from decimate defenses
20% from fury
8% from discipline banner
7% from spotter
Adds up to 100%, meaning that in the meta viper necro setup which has about 2k precision, you literally are wasting about 1k stats on nothing just because the only way to get condi duration involves precision.
(edited by thrag.9740)
15% from target the weak
50% from decimate defenses
20% from fury
8% from discipline banner
7% from spotter
It’s been proved several times that optimal damage comes from maxing precision no matter what bonuses come from other players. In the hypothetical-perfect-scenario where a Necro runs alongside a Warrior and a Ranger there’s no way to upkeep Fury 100% of the time and Banner of Discipline has a cooldown interval, also target the weak has a 13% crit chance cap.
What you’re saying equals to say that Elementalist meta should run Valkyrie instead of Berserker because he can obtain 100ish% crit chance from other sources and that is absolute nonsense. For my part I think that this stat has no place in the game, talking PvE wise.
@NumenorLord – I don’t see an explicit reason to not introduce this stat to PvE. More options in PvE are good, plus its not like we don’t already have plenty of stats that almost no one uses.
15% from target the weak
50% from decimate defenses
20% from fury
8% from discipline banner
7% from spotterIt’s been proved several times that optimal damage comes from maxing precision no matter what bonuses come from other players. In the hypothetical-perfect-scenario where a Necro runs alongside a Warrior and a Ranger there’s no way to upkeep Fury 100% of the time and Banner of Discipline has a cooldown interval, also target the weak has a 13% crit chance cap.
What you’re saying equals to say that Elementalist meta should run Valkyrie instead of Berserker because he can obtain 100ish% crit chance from other sources and that is absolute nonsense. For my part I think that this stat has no place in the game, talking PvE wise.
If revenant was in a better state, 100% fury upkeep IS a thing.
15% from target the weak
50% from decimate defenses
20% from fury
8% from discipline banner
7% from spotterIt’s been proved several times that optimal damage comes from maxing precision no matter what bonuses come from other players. In the hypothetical-perfect-scenario where a Necro runs alongside a Warrior and a Ranger there’s no way to upkeep Fury 100% of the time and Banner of Discipline has a cooldown interval, also target the weak has a 13% crit chance cap.
What you’re saying equals to say that Elementalist meta should run Valkyrie instead of Berserker because he can obtain 100ish% crit chance from other sources and that is absolute nonsense. For my part I think that this stat has no place in the game, talking PvE wise.
Is this a troll? We are talking about raids and not pvp or something right?
If maxing precision is always optimal, everyone would run full assassins not berserker. And yes, everyone create’s power builds which hit 100% crit chance, and no higher under some of the given assumptions. Look at meta builds, they bring 1 or 2 pieces of assassins on certain classes to do this, and no more.
No way to up keep fury? lol wtf. Ill screen shot my next kill with bgdm and show you fury uptimes over 90%.
Banner of discipline has very little down time if you have good alacrity up time.
15% from target the weak
50% from decimate defenses
20% from fury
8% from discipline banner
7% from spotterIt’s been proved several times that optimal damage comes from maxing precision no matter what bonuses come from other players. In the hypothetical-perfect-scenario where a Necro runs alongside a Warrior and a Ranger there’s no way to upkeep Fury 100% of the time and Banner of Discipline has a cooldown interval, also target the weak has a 13% crit chance cap.
What you’re saying equals to say that Elementalist meta should run Valkyrie instead of Berserker because he can obtain 100ish% crit chance from other sources and that is absolute nonsense. For my part I think that this stat has no place in the game, talking PvE wise.
You might want to research a little about boon distribution.
Fury is one of the easiest boons to achieve permanent duration on. Any of the following can keep permanent Fury on a 5 man group: 1 Ranger / 1 Warrior (with FGJ) + 1 Mesmer / Pre-stacking Ele (in Fractals) / Revenant and more.
Banners indeed have a cooldown interval, but you can still have them for 85%+ of a long fight (Also they last long enough to cover 99% of fractal fights).
That’s why all power professions use builds that will bring them to 100% (99% actually) with the basic buffs. Bringing any Precision over that value (in a group scenario obviously) is sub-optimal and in no way can grant you “optimal damage”.
15% from target the weak
50% from decimate defenses
20% from fury
8% from discipline banner
7% from spotterIt’s been proved several times that optimal damage comes from maxing precision no matter what bonuses come from other players. In the hypothetical-perfect-scenario where a Necro runs alongside a Warrior and a Ranger there’s no way to upkeep Fury 100% of the time and Banner of Discipline has a cooldown interval, also target the weak has a 13% crit chance cap.
What you’re saying equals to say that Elementalist meta should run Valkyrie instead of Berserker because he can obtain 100ish% crit chance from other sources and that is absolute nonsense. For my part I think that this stat has no place in the game, talking PvE wise.
Is this a troll? We are talking about raids and not pvp or something right?
If maxing precision is always optimal, everyone would run full assassins not berserker. And yes, everyone create’s power builds which hit 100% crit chance, and no higher under some of the given assumptions. Look at meta builds, they bring 1 or 2 pieces of assassins on certain classes to do this, and no more.
No way to up keep fury? lol wtf. Ill screen shot my next kill with bgdm and show you fury uptimes over 90%.
Banner of discipline has very little down time if you have good alacrity up time.
I said maxing, not over capping as crit chance cannot go higher than 100% learn to read please.
15% from target the weak
50% from decimate defenses
20% from fury
8% from discipline banner
7% from spotterIt’s been proved several times that optimal damage comes from maxing precision no matter what bonuses come from other players. In the hypothetical-perfect-scenario where a Necro runs alongside a Warrior and a Ranger there’s no way to upkeep Fury 100% of the time and Banner of Discipline has a cooldown interval, also target the weak has a 13% crit chance cap.
What you’re saying equals to say that Elementalist meta should run Valkyrie instead of Berserker because he can obtain 100ish% crit chance from other sources and that is absolute nonsense. For my part I think that this stat has no place in the game, talking PvE wise.
Is this a troll? We are talking about raids and not pvp or something right?
If maxing precision is always optimal, everyone would run full assassins not berserker. And yes, everyone create’s power builds which hit 100% crit chance, and no higher under some of the given assumptions. Look at meta builds, they bring 1 or 2 pieces of assassins on certain classes to do this, and no more.
No way to up keep fury? lol wtf. Ill screen shot my next kill with bgdm and show you fury uptimes over 90%.
Banner of discipline has very little down time if you have good alacrity up time.
I said maxing, not over capping as crit chance cannot go higher than 100% learn to read please.
Maxing crit-chance is different than min-maxing your crit-chance to the optimal value.
You can have 70% crit-chance solo, then you get over 100% with group buffs. Learn to write please.
Primary power and condition damage, secondary ferocity and expertise would be a huge damage gain for Necromancers as it could replace Viper’s and add a lot of power damage to the rotation (helpful since Greatsword and Reaper’s Shroud is already present). This is in addition to the stat combination the OP requested (primary condition damage, secondary power and ferocity), since that’s really competing with Sinisters.
The primary downside to this kind of a build is that it would make soloing with a Necromancer pretty annoying since you’d have a lot of trouble getting critical hits without a team. You’d probably want raid/fractal gear and open world gear (vipers) in that case.
It’s been proved several times that optimal damage comes from maxing precision no matter what bonuses come from other players. In the hypothetical-perfect-scenario where a Necro runs alongside a Warrior and a Ranger there’s no way to upkeep Fury 100% of the time and Banner of Discipline has a cooldown interval, also target the weak has a 13% crit chance cap.
- Fury can be easily maintained 100% across a raid or fractal encounter.
- Permanent alacrity reduces the cooldown of banners so that you have effectively 100% uptime of banners (90.2s cooldown).
- Target the Weak has no crit chance cap. The 13% in its tooltip is the condition damage conversion rate you get from precision.
- The only reason classes don’t worry about overcapping crit chance right now is because there’s nothing better than berserker’s gear for power classes anyway. If there were two-stat combinations of Power/Ferocity, you can bet that it would be heavily min-maxed.
[VZ] Valor Zeal – Stormbluff Isle – Looking for steady, casual-friendly NA raiders!
15% from target the weak
50% from decimate defenses
20% from fury
8% from discipline banner
7% from spotterIt’s been proved several times that optimal damage comes from maxing precision no matter what bonuses come from other players. In the hypothetical-perfect-scenario where a Necro runs alongside a Warrior and a Ranger there’s no way to upkeep Fury 100% of the time and Banner of Discipline has a cooldown interval, also target the weak has a 13% crit chance cap.
What you’re saying equals to say that Elementalist meta should run Valkyrie instead of Berserker because he can obtain 100ish% crit chance from other sources and that is absolute nonsense. For my part I think that this stat has no place in the game, talking PvE wise.
Is this a troll? We are talking about raids and not pvp or something right?
If maxing precision is always optimal, everyone would run full assassins not berserker. And yes, everyone create’s power builds which hit 100% crit chance, and no higher under some of the given assumptions. Look at meta builds, they bring 1 or 2 pieces of assassins on certain classes to do this, and no more.
No way to up keep fury? lol wtf. Ill screen shot my next kill with bgdm and show you fury uptimes over 90%.
Banner of discipline has very little down time if you have good alacrity up time.
I said maxing, not over capping as crit chance cannot go higher than 100% learn to read please.
Maxing crit-chance is different than min-maxing your crit-chance to the optimal value.
You can have 70% crit-chance solo, then you get over 100% with group buffs. Learn to write please.Well you still got the idea. I’m glad you can stand up for your girlfriend. Cheers.
Honestly, no, I have no idea what you are talking about in half of the things you write.
15% from target the weak
50% from decimate defenses
20% from fury
8% from discipline banner
7% from spotterIt’s been proved several times that optimal damage comes from maxing precision no matter what bonuses come from other players. In the hypothetical-perfect-scenario where a Necro runs alongside a Warrior and a Ranger there’s no way to upkeep Fury 100% of the time and Banner of Discipline has a cooldown interval, also target the weak has a 13% crit chance cap.
What you’re saying equals to say that Elementalist meta should run Valkyrie instead of Berserker because he can obtain 100ish% crit chance from other sources and that is absolute nonsense. For my part I think that this stat has no place in the game, talking PvE wise.
Is this a troll? We are talking about raids and not pvp or something right?
If maxing precision is always optimal, everyone would run full assassins not berserker. And yes, everyone create’s power builds which hit 100% crit chance, and no higher under some of the given assumptions. Look at meta builds, they bring 1 or 2 pieces of assassins on certain classes to do this, and no more.
No way to up keep fury? lol wtf. Ill screen shot my next kill with bgdm and show you fury uptimes over 90%.
Banner of discipline has very little down time if you have good alacrity up time.
I said maxing, not over capping as crit chance cannot go higher than 100% learn to read please.
Maxing crit-chance is different than min-maxing your crit-chance to the optimal value.
You can have 70% crit-chance solo, then you get over 100% with group buffs. Learn to write please.Well you still got the idea. I’m glad you can stand up for your girlfriend. Cheers.
Honestly, no, I have no idea what you are talking about in half of the things you write.
Then why do you answer? I wasn’t even talking to you in the first place. Now sincerely and on topic, you really think that a P-F-CD stat would be meta? Even when you get 100% crit chance from other sources in raids it is absurd to think anyone would use this over Viper/Sinister where you can get 100% condi duration through Expertise. The suggestion is unviable but think it could apply to special snowflakes that are the kind of players that make pug raids fail the way they do.
15% from target the weak
50% from decimate defenses
20% from fury
8% from discipline banner
7% from spotterIt’s been proved several times that optimal damage comes from maxing precision no matter what bonuses come from other players. In the hypothetical-perfect-scenario where a Necro runs alongside a Warrior and a Ranger there’s no way to upkeep Fury 100% of the time and Banner of Discipline has a cooldown interval, also target the weak has a 13% crit chance cap.
What you’re saying equals to say that Elementalist meta should run Valkyrie instead of Berserker because he can obtain 100ish% crit chance from other sources and that is absolute nonsense. For my part I think that this stat has no place in the game, talking PvE wise.
Is this a troll? We are talking about raids and not pvp or something right?
If maxing precision is always optimal, everyone would run full assassins not berserker. And yes, everyone create’s power builds which hit 100% crit chance, and no higher under some of the given assumptions. Look at meta builds, they bring 1 or 2 pieces of assassins on certain classes to do this, and no more.
No way to up keep fury? lol wtf. Ill screen shot my next kill with bgdm and show you fury uptimes over 90%.
Banner of discipline has very little down time if you have good alacrity up time.
I said maxing, not over capping as crit chance cannot go higher than 100% learn to read please.
Maxing crit-chance is different than min-maxing your crit-chance to the optimal value.
You can have 70% crit-chance solo, then you get over 100% with group buffs. Learn to write please.Well you still got the idea. I’m glad you can stand up for your girlfriend. Cheers.
Honestly, no, I have no idea what you are talking about in half of the things you write.
Then why do you answer? I wasn’t even talking to you in the first place. Now sincerely and on topic, you really think that a P-F-CD stat would be meta? Even when you get 100% crit chance from other sources in raids it is absurd to think anyone would use this over Viper/Sinister where you can get 100% condi duration through Expertise. The suggestion is unviable but think it could apply to special snowflakes that are the kind of players that make pug raids fail the way they do.
Don’t know, I just don’t like seeing people spread bullkitten on the forums ^^.
How can you tell what’s going to meta if you don’t even know how to upkeep Fury?
15% from target the weak
50% from decimate defenses
20% from fury
8% from discipline banner
7% from spotterIt’s been proved several times that optimal damage comes from maxing precision no matter what bonuses come from other players. In the hypothetical-perfect-scenario where a Necro runs alongside a Warrior and a Ranger there’s no way to upkeep Fury 100% of the time and Banner of Discipline has a cooldown interval, also target the weak has a 13% crit chance cap.
What you’re saying equals to say that Elementalist meta should run Valkyrie instead of Berserker because he can obtain 100ish% crit chance from other sources and that is absolute nonsense. For my part I think that this stat has no place in the game, talking PvE wise.
Is this a troll? We are talking about raids and not pvp or something right?
If maxing precision is always optimal, everyone would run full assassins not berserker. And yes, everyone create’s power builds which hit 100% crit chance, and no higher under some of the given assumptions. Look at meta builds, they bring 1 or 2 pieces of assassins on certain classes to do this, and no more.
No way to up keep fury? lol wtf. Ill screen shot my next kill with bgdm and show you fury uptimes over 90%.
Banner of discipline has very little down time if you have good alacrity up time.
I said maxing, not over capping as crit chance cannot go higher than 100% learn to read please.
Maxing crit-chance is different than min-maxing your crit-chance to the optimal value.
You can have 70% crit-chance solo, then you get over 100% with group buffs. Learn to write please.Well you still got the idea. I’m glad you can stand up for your girlfriend. Cheers.
Honestly, no, I have no idea what you are talking about in half of the things you write.
Then why do you answer? I wasn’t even talking to you in the first place. Now sincerely and on topic, you really think that a P-F-CD stat would be meta? Even when you get 100% crit chance from other sources in raids it is absurd to think anyone would use this over Viper/Sinister where you can get 100% condi duration through Expertise. The suggestion is unviable but think it could apply to special snowflakes that are the kind of players that make pug raids fail the way they do.
So the only justification for addding a new stat to the game is to see if it would be “meta” or not? Well I hate to break your fantasy, but Anet disagrees with you. Otherwise we wouldn’t have gotten seraphs stats introduced just a couple of weeks ago.
Perhaps a power and condition damage main stat and ferocity and expertise minor would be helpful to necro and some very niche areas. However most condition damage weapons have really poor power damage so there’s always that which counts against it however yes I think a necro could easily hit 100% critical chance in raids without a single point in precision.
Target the weak adds about 215 condition damage to the build so that ferocity would need to make up that difference. If ferocity was a minor stat you’re looking at it being +43% ferocity which I dunno if it’s worth it considering as I say the condition weapons usually hit like wet noodles in terms of power.
It might enable some weird GS necro build but it’s a shame the GS trait is the same no-one as decimate defended and the GS doesn’t exactly throw out conditions that much.
Numenlord is clearly a troll please stop feeding him.
As for OP, for a power necro at least some pieces of power-ferocity-condi damage would be an improvement over berserker’s, as you can easily hit 100% crit chance without full zerker, and so stats are being wasted. Converting those stats to something at least somewhat useful would be an improvement. However, how much of a difference would it make? IDK, but necro is probably one of the best classes to try to make a decent true hybrid build (roughly equal split between condi and power damage).
Also, greatsword can spit out condis quite well, and is part of a min-maxed condi necro build (used with constant weapon swap). Unfortunately it depends on combo fields. It does this through blind = chill and chill = bleed traits. Gs2 is a whirl finisher for chill bols, gs 4 is a blind, and gs5 is a chill. You just can’t camp gs as a condi necro.
Numenlord is clearly a troll please stop feeding him.
As for OP, for a power necro at least some pieces of power-ferocity-condi damage would be an improvement over berserker’s, as you can easily hit 100% crit chance without full zerker, and so stats are being wasted. Converting those stats to something at least somewhat useful would be an improvement. However, how much of a difference would it make? IDK, but necro is probably one of the best classes to try to make a decent true hybrid build (roughly equal split between condi and power damage).
Also, greatsword can spit out condis quite well, and is part of a min-maxed condi necro build (used with constant weapon swap). Unfortunately it depends on combo fields. It does this through blind = chill and chill = bleed traits. Gs2 is a whirl finisher for chill bols, gs 4 is a blind, and gs5 is a chill. You just can’t camp gs as a condi necro.
Yeah I know, the GS does spit out condi nicely but the problem is as you said you need to switch weapons often. If you switch to condition weapons then your power damage tanks, switch to power weapon and your conditions tank. If they tidy up the GS auto then it may work to sit on GS as it has great synergy as you outlined but it’s just shy of working imo because the GS is so clunky.
I feel like guardians, eles, and especially warriors would be able to mix this gear in to achieve some truly gross numbers with their mix of high-damage coefficient weapons and burn stacking.
A four stat with power and condition damage as majors, with expertise and ferocity as minors would be amazing for GS condi necro.
Sanity is for the weak minded.
YouTube
YouTube
and once they do that may add as well pow vit fer
Not sure why no one has used the time to actually link to this to help the TC:
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Attribute_combinations
Instead we get a thread full of weak 1 sided arguments where:
- useless stat combination are considered options (they are not, just as 80% of the stat combinations could get removed from the game and no one would notice)
- people ignore the fact that 90% of the weapon sets are optimised for condition damage or power and the damage loss on power builds for taking a condition set would be quite big
- all arguments are based on literally 1 elite specialisation which in its curent forum can overcap crit in a raid enviroment(which might change in the future).
Go forum warriors.
It’s been proved several times that optimal damage comes from maxing precision no matter what bonuses come from other players. In the hypothetical-perfect-scenario where a Necro runs alongside a Warrior and a Ranger there’s no way to upkeep Fury 100% of the time and Banner of Discipline has a cooldown interval, also target the weak has a 13% crit chance cap.
What you’re saying equals to say that Elementalist meta should run Valkyrie instead of Berserker because he can obtain 100ish% crit chance from other sources and that is absolute nonsense. For my part I think that this stat has no place in the game, talking PvE wise.
Please note that curses does have some fury access to augment the support’s.
I’m also going to point out that condi necro will crit cap without any external boons or buffs. Viper’s will net 34% from precision. (37% if you have the sinister tricket setup) once you add Target the Weak and Decimate Defenses then the necro is capped right there.
Now I totally agree with having extra crit in the case of boon and/or buff breakdown, but overstating by 30% is absurd. There is no raid condition outside of a total wipe where you will lose all buffs.
The only value of all that precision of the 13% conversion on Target the Weak, however the total benefit of that isn’t something to write home about.
Sanity is for the weak minded.
YouTube
YouTube
- all arguments are based on literally 1 elite specialisation which in its curent forum can overcap crit in a raid enviroment(which might change in the future).
Necro isn’t the only class that has used precisionless ferocity stats. See Valkyrie Staff thief with Daredevil runes.
Also 1 class using it is sufficient motivation for that stat set’s existence. If a stat set is useful without being game breaking then it has reason to exist.
Classes should not be hampered by not having a optimal stat prefix available, at least not in PvE. (PvP is another story.)
Sanity is for the weak minded.
YouTube
YouTube
- all arguments are based on literally 1 elite specialisation which in its curent forum can overcap crit in a raid enviroment(which might change in the future).
Necro isn’t the only class that has used precisionless ferocity stats. See Valkyrie Staff thief with Daredevil runes.
Also 1 class using it is sufficient motivation for that stat set’s existence. If a stat set is useful without being game breaking then it has reason to exist.
Classes should not be hampered by not having a optimal stat prefix available, at least not in PvE. (PvP is another story.)
Oh I agree, there are other classes who can use less precision on gear due to traits. Necro is the only one who is of actual consequence though (and even here theory craft shows that you don’t want to go 0 precision).
That valkyrie thief gains little to nothing from his extra vitality except some minor survivability (which is an absolute non-issue for pve, expecially a raid enviroment). Now are you seriously going to argue that some minor splashed in condition damage on 2-3 items will be of any significance without having:
- condition damage traits
- condition damage utilities
- condition damage weapon sets
- condition damage sigils/runes
- condition duration
No? Correct answer.
Fact of the matter is, the stat combination PFC is at best a sidegrade in the current pve enviroment, and that is stretching it a LOT.
Guardian’s Torch says HellooOOooOo..
(edited by Vitali.5039)