Guild Wars 2

I might be seeing things totally wrong here but it seems to me at least you need to spend hours learning what to do in all the dungeons before you go into them or you get abuse thrown at you or you get kicked out

(I haven’t done a dungeon yet due to the fact I really don’t want to spend hours on my time looking at what to do for what boss ect ect)

I have looked at youtube videos of people doing the dungeons and they seem to just rush through them at max speed is this what dungeons in gw2 are? Doesn’t seem a fun way to play the game.

I’m probs totally wrong but from a newbies point of view dungeons seem to be for the elite or the 5 man premade groups only

ingame lfg > ‘hi, noob looking for players to help me learn dungeon’ > get party > do dungeon.

I also recommend reading the Dungeon Forum FAQ at the top of this page, stickied, and consulting the dungeon mentor thread for a teacher.

You can also check this thread: Dungeon Mentors and pm a mentor for help / advices

Well honestly the runs you see on youtube are good groups doing the paths in the most efficient manner usually. The average lfg dungeon X path Y isn’t going to be doing things that fast usually. While it is very doable to join a learning group, its also good to watch the vids to learn about the tricky fights where reflects or dodging is particularly important. Its also important to let the party know you don’t know the dungeon past watching a vid, you might get kicked but there are other parties so don’t take it personally. Its important to check your ego at the door when you are learning.

As long as you show up with level appropriate gear, one that is set for doing damage (conditions don’t count) and don’t use obnoxius skills like fear and knock-back and are willing to melee most fights you won’t run into problems.

Wrath, the community is kinda messed up right now. There’s too much elitism in the LFG, but there’s a way to avoid that. Only join groups that are not zerkers, rush runs, speed runs or anything that seems to be created from an impatient bad-attitude player. Going with newbies will be longer, yet more fun rewarding 90% of the times.

Thanks for the answers guys I have a level 80 warrior so melee isn’t a problem for me I’m happy for someone to teach me the fight no point in acting like you know the fight when you don’t also I’ll look the posts you guys said I should read

Elrey.5472:

Wrath, the community is kinda messed up right now. There’s too much elitism in the LFG, but there’s a way to avoid that. Only join groups that are not zerkers, rush runs, speed runs or anything that seems to be created from an impatient bad-attitude player. Going with newbies will be longer, yet more fun rewarding 90% of the times.

The kitten is strong in this one. Going with newbies is a good way for newbies to learn. It is not more “fun” or more rewarding. In literal terms, it is in no way more rewarding. The fun of it is subjective. See what you like.

You’ll have to start off in newbie groups. Don’t join anything speed run (like our angry friend here said) but also don’t be afraid to aim for them down the line. If you find that you got the gameplay down, have solid gear, and think you could have more fun melting through mobs, by all means start working on speed clears with your guild or team.

People make it seem like ‘having fun’ and ‘speed running’ are mutually exclusive.

Elrey.5472:

Wrath, the community is kinda messed up right now. There’s too much elitism in the LFG, but there’s a way to avoid that. Only join groups that are not zerkers, rush runs, speed runs or anything that seems to be created from an impatient bad-attitude player. Going with newbies will be longer, yet more fun rewarding 90% of the times.

Okay Elrey, enough is enough.

Saying that he should avoid these groups is fine,but implying that they all have bad attitudes and stuff is very judgmental and you should be ashamed of yourself, because you are the one who is perpetuating this.

Be positive. Everyone in this thread up until you was positive and helpful, you’re just being a kitten.

Chris has the right idea, I think.

Wrath.7801:

I might be seeing things totally wrong here but it seems to me at least you need to spend hours learning what to do in all the dungeons before you go into them or you get abuse thrown at you or you get kicked out

(I haven’t done a dungeon yet due to the fact I really don’t want to spend hours on my time looking at what to do for what boss ect ect)

I have looked at youtube videos of people doing the dungeons and they seem to just rush through them at max speed is this what dungeons in gw2 are? Doesn’t seem a fun way to play the game.

I’m probs totally wrong but from a newbies point of view dungeons seem to be for the elite or the 5 man premade groups only

Don’t worry man, you are not the only one that feels this way… i am in no way a new player. I have actually done everything there is to do in this game long before these kind of people appeared in it, yet i do not support them…

There are hundreds maybe even thousands of them as of late, yet they are still a minority compared to everyone that plays GW2.

Don’t take it personally, they just use every means necessary to get the most profit out of the game, even if that means abusing and exploiting. Think of it as… if stealing would be legal… how much time before would pass before everyone does it. It’s not entirely their fault, they even said it… “what do you want us to do, play the game in a less effective just because it’s morally wrong to play it our way ?”… and that’s kind of true…

The game will change in time for the better, or it will die out… you just have to hang in there.

Apparently Nemesis had finished the entire game before it was launched. Huh. It’s a new level of omniscience. Maybe he’s actually Scarlet and that’s why he controls everyone.

Nemesis.8593:

Wrath.7801:

I might be seeing things totally wrong here but it seems to me at least you need to spend hours learning what to do in all the dungeons before you go into them or you get abuse thrown at you or you get kicked out

(I haven’t done a dungeon yet due to the fact I really don’t want to spend hours on my time looking at what to do for what boss ect ect)

I have looked at youtube videos of people doing the dungeons and they seem to just rush through them at max speed is this what dungeons in gw2 are? Doesn’t seem a fun way to play the game.

I’m probs totally wrong but from a newbies point of view dungeons seem to be for the elite or the 5 man premade groups only

Don’t worry man, you are not the only one that feels this way… i am in no way a new player. I have actually done everything there is to do in this game long before these kind of people appeared in it, yet i do not support them…

There are hundreds maybe even thousands of them as of late, yet they are still a minority compared to everyone that plays GW2.

Don’t take it personally, they just use every means necessary to get the most profit out of the game, even if that means abusing and exploiting. Think of it as… if stealing would be legal… how much time before would pass before everyone does it. It’s not entirely their fault, they even said it… “what do you want us to do, play the game in a less effective just because it’s morally wrong to play it our way ?”… and that’s kind of true…

The game will change in time for the better, or it will die out… you just have to hang in there.

Man, where are folks getting this stuff. The guy is a new player. Why are you telling him the game is dying out and everyone is exploiting, etc..?

Don’t be put off by all of this. Just get into some dungeons, try them out. If you feel that you genuinely enjoy taking your time, do that. If you feel that you would enjoy learning how to efficiently clear dungeons (as a hobby, NOT a part time job lol), then go ahead and start planning for that.

There are no exploits involved in the latter either. And contrary to what you might hear, not all of these players are ‘eliteist pricks’. I’m sure some folks do it that way but everyone I ever clear with is skilled, polite, and a blast to play with. We have had enough practice at ALL of the dungeons and fractals that we can just BS with each other in chat and still pull solid times.

So again, don’t think that getting involved in ‘speed clear’ gameplay will put you into bed with some demographic of monstrous players and that you can never have fun again.

You are partially wrong. Most people did dungeon the ’’normal’’ way at least once. But then after a while the majority of players want to speed things up. Its normal to try to make things easier, faster, more efficient, more rewarding, its in ourselves. Some people do this only for faster rewards while other do this for the fun of pushing yourself to make the best run possible (this can include your build, your group, your method, where you can skip, etc). For me and most of my guild its a mix of the two.

People label as elitist are usually those who ask for specific things to get a smooth run either for speed or simply to don’t have any problem in the dungeon. Usually they in the LFG they ask something specific like zerker only, ping gear or be kick, have more than X amount of AP, etc. Don’t only view these people in a negative ways. Like most of us they did dungeons hundred of times and had a few or a lot of negative experience with pugs. They only want to have smooth and fast run and make sure they get what they want. Some of jerk but its like you know the rest of humanity.

Under elitist, there is people that want the same things and but don’t give a crap about others people build. They also want a smooth and fast run but don’t bother to min max everythings. Usually on the LFG they ask speed runs, be experienced, etc. They usually expect you to know the path well and know most of the tricks, skip, etc. Like everywhere there is different people. Some will kick you if you don’t know what your are doing, other like me will tel you that next time don’t join a speed run if you don’t know how to speed run but will explain how if you look like a good player and listen to what i say. It also depend on how much time we have in front of us or how we are feeling today (sometime i just don’t feel like explaining).

Those two kind of post of the LFG you should avoid until you know what you enter. For you and for others. If they ask for something its their right, they took the time to write what they want, be kind enough to read and respect that. You can’t really complaint if you get kick when not reaching what was expecting of you.

But after that there is a lot of different people looking for different things. The best things you could do is either :
1) Make your own post of LFG. new player in dungeon or Looking for veteran to explain, something like that. That ways people know what they enter and what to expect.
2) Enter LFG where nothing special in description like : AC path 1 and 3. There is a chance its a speed group too lazy to write it or that just didn’t think about writing it. There is also a chance that some jerk will say something bad to you. Best way to avoid it, explain your situation at the beginning (preferably before you enter the dungeon). Say that you are new bug want to learn. After a couple run, you can say that you only did a couple of run so be patient with me, etc. That way either they kick you right away no hard feeling, they let you run with them, or best they show you more and more about the dungeon each time you enter a new run.
3) Join a guild and ask them to show you dungeon. This is by far the best option. But for some people finding the right guild can be hard, especially if you have no friend that play GW2.

LittleLepton.8915:

Okay Elrey, enough is enough.

Saying that he should avoid these groups is fine,but implying that they all have bad attitudes and stuff is very judgmental and you should be ashamed of yourself, because you are the one who is perpetuating this.

LittleLepton, you are always against me in this forum it seems, and i can understand it since we have different point of views. Nevertheless, the OP post (and even the topic) is stating the problem of being kicked out of a group just if you are not pro. The OP personally wasn’t kicked (didn’t said it at least) but the kicks are outthere.

My experience with the LFG at least in my server is kicks everywhere. Yesterday i was kicked twice just because I joined with my necro in an LFG group that only said “path 2”. A newbie necro that is trying the LFG for the first time would also be kicked, without knowing why, because of the elitist of the LFG community.

Maybe you are a white knight and help newbies if they join your groups, however most of the zerker/speed runs in my LFG servers (no idea if it’s the entire EU Roster or only some servers) end up with that problem. People kick too much, i’ve seen even 8 kicks in the same run + replacing people.

I try to be possitive and i try to give an alternative to the OP problem. Since he’s stating “Pro or GTFO” in the topic, I’d definitely give a third option: Not pro, neither GTFO, but casual newbies run.

About rewarding, i was speaking about “fun rewarding”. Wich in my opinnion is more fun to die while fighting really hard than facerolling another stacking bored run. Why? Because if you died after fighting really hard it only means that something pushed you to your limits, and you still need to improve. Isn’t that fun? A challenge, not faceroll.

That is of course my personal point of view, as I always say, but please, notice that i was giving just a different option trying to cover all the point of views in the dungeons community.

Every discussion should be like Ying and Yang, black and white. There’s no point on giving an advice if someone else can’t take it down. Because of that reason, I always give my personal opinnion about the LFG and dungeons, and if i’m wrong, someone will take me down. Just understand that you are also wrong sometimes, and at least from my point of view, “pro runs” is what it’s destroying the dungeons community, so i encourage more casual runs.

I would like to clarify also, that NOT all zerker/speed runs/pro groups have bad attitude. In my original post i was giving the advice to avoid groups that seems to be created by bad attitude players, but didn’t said by far that all zerker groups are bad attitude players. Actually i was thinking in some LFG groups like “+4AP or kick”. That simple text in the LFG it’s screaming “i’m a bad attitude player and won’t tolerate you if you make a misstake”.

Elrey, I’m not against you, and never have been. The past week you have posted post after post of negative and terrible things to many folks in this community that was never warranted. Folks here tried to help the OP by giving him alternatives to the lfg or by giving him examples on how to mitigate the kick possibility from the lfg.

Don’t tell me what I am. My builds are not optimized, because I just don’t care enough, but I don’t join groups which I am not qualified for. So that’s what the OP should do. Join groups who specify that noobs are okay and to ask for help when he needs it.

There is nothing wrong with the community. The issue is that a lot of people complain about being kicked when they did not read or were not honest with their group. Avoiding these mistakes is the only way to not have bad experiences.

~Lilith

Thanks to all the regulars who have already made all the right suggestions. There are plenty of easy ways to learn to how to do dungeons in game, Wrath, so please do not be afraid of it. Be open with your groups that this is the first time doing your given path, and they will almost certainly be ok with it (or else, ask you to leave at the start before you waste time with them). The Dungeons Mentor thread is in particular a great resource, filled with people who are willing to use their time to help you learn what to do. Please don’t be afraid to ask them

I think the problem are not speed run, elitist or anything like that. The problem is when people want those thing but don’t put it in the LFG.

Like Elry said (even if i’m not good with the way he say it), you can join a LFG with only ‘’Path 2’’ in the description and be kick without reason. If someone don’t want a Necro in his party he should right it in the LFG and not only kick every necro that enter the group. If everybody was thinking before making there post this would fix a lof of problem. But some people are expecting that a normal run will be speed run, skip, all experienced and all zerker this is not true. If you want those thing and are ready to kick if someone don’t meet them, then you should write it in the LFG.

I try as much as possible to whisper to the person why i kick him. Usually because I ask for speed run and someone clearly don’t know the path well. I also try to give the guys a chance when i clearly see that he have very low amount of AP (like less that 500) or looks like he have basic blue/green armor on him, by asking him if he’s sure that he’s at the right place in a speed run. But i’m still human and sometime i’m not that kind. When its late and i want to a do a last run before going to sleep or when 3 low level join a normal path1 and 3 run of ac, etc.

Wrath.7801:

Thanks for the answers guys I have a level 80 warrior so melee isn’t a problem for me I’m happy for someone to teach me the fight no point in acting like you know the fight when you don’t also I’ll look the posts you guys said I should read

You have the right idea, it is actually best to let everyone know you’re new to dungeons right off the bat, and assure them that you are willing to take direction and follow through on that.

One of two things will happen, you’ll get kicked, which is not cool but it happens because people are people. The whole dungeon community shouldn’t be held responsible for this though, you just have the unfortunate timing to run into some jerks. Honesty them kicking you is doing you a huge favor because they won’t be able to teach you anything if they kept you in the party. This is of course with exception, since you are new you shouldn’t join any runs that are advertised as speed run, or zerker only, or looking for a specific class. These kind of groups are probably in a hurry and not looking for a new player.

Secondly and I find this to be the more common occurrence is that they are ok with it and they might actually show you what to do. This is what happens if I PUG a newbie, as long as they are willing to take direction they get to stay and learn the ropes.

Another thing you can do is build your character for running dungeons. You can ask for advice on this here in the dungeon forum and players will be glad to help you with that, but you are asking for advice so be prepared to hear things you may not agree with, feel free to ask questions but be constructive. Gearing and traiting can be a touchy subject.

I think its rather telling that the most toxic posters in the this thread are Elrey and Nemesis.

Is there a thing such as “reverse” elitism, a sort of a race to the bottom to avoid being called “meta” or a net build?

Nemesis, I imagine a good portion of the people you are against played in the betas and the early launch.

notabot.3497:

I think its rather telling that the most toxic posters in the this thread are Elrey and Nemesis.

Is there a thing such as “reverse” elitism, a sort of a race to the bottom to avoid being called “meta” or a net build?

See our point of view: For us the toxic players are the ones forcing everyone else to use their meta builds… or kick. Nevertheless, let’s not take it personal and let’s focus on the topic.

Elrey.5472:

notabot.3497:

I think its rather telling that the most toxic posters in the this thread are Elrey and Nemesis.

Is there a thing such as “reverse” elitism, a sort of a race to the bottom to avoid being called “meta” or a net build?

See our point of view: For us the toxic players are the ones forcing everyone else to use their meta builds… or kick. Nevertheless, let’s not take it personal and let’s focus on the topic.

No one is forcing you to join their party, don’t be a drama queen.

Elrey.5472:

notabot.3497:

I think its rather telling that the most toxic posters in the this thread are Elrey and Nemesis.

Is there a thing such as “reverse” elitism, a sort of a race to the bottom to avoid being called “meta” or a net build?

See our point of view: For us the toxic players are the ones forcing everyone else to use their meta builds… or kick. Nevertheless, let’s not take it personal and let’s focus on the topic.

I’m not really sure how my post was off topic. In a point, counterpoint argument is it not correct to challenge the assertions of the opposing side? In this case the individuals who have been railing against dungeon elitists being toxic are coming into a thread to help a dungeon new-player, and doing so with a negative attitude. The perception of dungeons being full of elitist jerks is also spread by people similar to you. Yeah, some dungeon runners are elitists, but that doesn’t mean they are being elitist about the same things. I see bitterness AND elitism in some of the anti-zerk/stack/skip faction, just about doing things as “intended”, upholding a trinity concept, or some other idea that they have in their head about how the game should be played. At least the RPers keep to themselves and its kind of fun to make fun of them and they generally don’t mind because they are having their own fun. But the guys who want to do things the “legit” way? They are full of nothing but bitterness and tears. Nobody is forcing you to pick up the current meta build and join arahSC groups, you can always form your own groups. Don’t like getting kicked? Don’t join parties that advertise specific things you don’t meet, and don’t be surprised that the average “P1&3” group is just looking for a smooth and fast farm run.

That being said at least you are mostly still having fun, even though you are letting those other guys having fun bother you for some reason. I don’t think the same is true of Nemesis, he is sounding awfully burnt out these days.

My experience? I went into dungeons running after doing the courteous thing and finding out how to run them and how to play my class. I let the other players know I was new to the paths, and didn’t take it personal if I got kicked. Which I did get kicked a few times. No big deal, they are playing how they want and I don’t have the right to impose on that. I checked my ego and entitlement at the door and went along with how the group did things.

I might add that most pick up groups do things the same way, so teaching people who are going to pug how to do it the “legit no stacking, zerk elitist go away” way is a disservice. Yeah, most pug members aren’t going to be full zerk , but they in general will bring reasonable dps (as best as they feel comfortable running) builds unless they are coming into the dungeons with ill informed preconceived notions or misinformation spread by people who don’t like/know how the game is and want to force a meta based on how they think it should be. If you want to play a certain way, form a group with those parameters. Sure you will get the random zerk skipper/stacker who doesn’t read the LFG message, but that’s kinda funny considering how often clerics/bearbows/tanks try to join advertised zerk speed clear groups.

notabot.3497:

Elrey.5472:

notabot.3497:

I think its rather telling that the most toxic posters in the this thread are Elrey and Nemesis.

Is there a thing such as “reverse” elitism, a sort of a race to the bottom to avoid being called “meta” or a net build?

See our point of view: For us the toxic players are the ones forcing everyone else to use their meta builds… or kick. Nevertheless, let’s not take it personal and let’s focus on the topic.

I’m not really sure how my post was off topic. In a point, counterpoint argument is it not correct to challenge the assertions of the opposing side? In this case the individuals who have been railing against dungeon elitists being toxic are coming into a thread to help a dungeon new-player, and doing so with a negative attitude. The perception of dungeons being full of elitist jerks is also spread by people similar to you. Yeah, some dungeon runners are elitists, but that doesn’t mean they are being elitist about the same things. I see bitterness AND elitism in some of the anti-zerk/stack/skip faction, just about doing things as “intended”, upholding a trinity concept, or some other idea that they have in their head about how the game should be played. At least the RPers keep to themselves and its kind of fun to make fun of them and they generally don’t mind because they are having their own fun. But the guys who want to do things the “legit” way? They are full of nothing but bitterness and tears. Nobody is forcing you to pick up the current meta build and join arahSC groups, you can always form your own groups. Don’t like getting kicked? Don’t join parties that advertise specific things you don’t meet, and don’t be surprised that the average “P1&3” group is just looking for a smooth and fast farm run.

That being said at least you are mostly still having fun, even though you are letting those other guys having fun bother you for some reason. I don’t think the same is true of Nemesis, he is sounding awfully burnt out these days.

My experience? I went into dungeons running after doing the courteous thing and finding out how to run them and how to play my class. I let the other players know I was new to the paths, and didn’t take it personal if I got kicked. Which I did get kicked a few times. No big deal, they are playing how they want and I don’t have the right to impose on that. I checked my ego and entitlement at the door and went along with how the group did things.

I might add that most pick up groups do things the same way, so teaching people who are going to pug how to do it the “legit no stacking, zerk elitist go away” way is a disservice. Yeah, most pug members aren’t going to be full zerk , but they in general will bring reasonable dps (as best as they feel comfortable running) builds unless they are coming into the dungeons with ill informed preconceived notions or misinformation spread by people who don’t like/know how the game is and want to force a meta based on how they think it should be. If you want to play a certain way, form a group with those parameters. Sure you will get the random zerk skipper/stacker who doesn’t read the LFG message, but that’s kinda funny considering how often clerics/bearbows/tanks try to join advertised zerk speed clear groups.

From an outsider’s perspective I think the reason their so disgruntled is because they feel the status quo should be anything goes parties, and feel alienated because the status quo has become Zerker speed runs. Basically they want it so “play as you want” group are the everywhere and “meta” groups are a less common occurrence. Or to restate, they don’t want to feel like they’re being treated as a 2nd class player just because they don’t want to play a meta build.

And, as it turns out, a second class build. Lol.

But yeah, that’s likely true.

The best things to have when starting in dungeons for the first time are attitude and communication.

If you’ve never done dungeons before, the monsters inside hit much harder and have much more hit points than most of the monsters in open world and you have only 5 players working together to take them on. It can be a rude shock for some people. Don’t give up, and be open to trying different things to overcome obstacles.

If you’re new, people will (mostly) be more accomodating if you tell them beforehand and then they can explain the dungeon to you. Be willing to listen and ask whenever you are unsure. If they kick you from the party, you probably weren’t going to have a fun time with that party anyway.

Story mode dungeons are generally considered to be more newbie friendly (they don’t even tend to mind you watching the cutscenes). I recommend starting with these.

Youtube explains everything.