(edited by MFranco.9514)
Problems on Raid Balance
There’s a large difference between what is unplayable and what is optimal. People keep confusing the two. The only issue is players thinking that the meta is the absolutely only way to complete content.
(edited by Ayrilana.1396)
There’s a large difference between what is unplayable and what is optimal. People keep confusing the two.
That’s why before the patch every class as playable. Now go and use your rev or necro and see how good they are, you can play them but your runs will not be that smoth anymore. Alot of people will not be able to kill bosses they had alot of problems before the patch.
So when somehing goes wrong who you think they are going to blame? When dps is missing, who they will start to blame? What classes do you think pugs will start banning?
That’s the problems when you put a balance patch that puts classes on a very different power level
The only issue is players thinking that the meta is the absolutely only way to complete content.
No is not the only way, normally is the easiest way or the fastest way (it depends what meta you speaking… for ex. dungeon meta was all about speed). In raid meta you had alot of combos and every class was viable before the patch. You had records with every class
(edited by MFranco.9514)
There’s a large difference between what is unplayable and what is optimal. People keep confusing the two.
That’s why before the patch every class as playable. Now go and use your rev or necro and see how good they are, you can play them but your runs will not be that smoth anymore.
So when somehing goes wrong who you think they are going to blame? When dps is missing, who they will start to blame? What classes do you think pugs will start banning?
That’s the problems when you put a balance patch that puts classes on a very different power level
But they are not unplayable as you stated in your post. They’re just not optimal. That’s what I was saying in my post. With how quickly groups can clear raids, and how most groups wipe well before the enrage timer, the issue is rarely lack of DPS but rather lack of performing mechanics correctly and consistently.
There’s a large difference between what is unplayable and what is optimal. People keep confusing the two.
That’s why before the patch every class as playable. Now go and use your rev or necro and see how good they are, you can play them but your runs will not be that smoth anymore.
So when somehing goes wrong who you think they are going to blame? When dps is missing, who they will start to blame? What classes do you think pugs will start banning?
That’s the problems when you put a balance patch that puts classes on a very different power level
But they are not unplayable as you stated in your post. They’re just not optimal. That’s what I was saying in my post. With how quickly groups can clear raids, and how most groups wipe well before the enrage timer, the issue is rarely lack of DPS but rather lack of performing mechanics correctly and consistently.
I will give you a simple example, if you have a good dps you can do Abomination phase prety fast, so you deal less time with mechanics. Dps afects how much time you have to deal with mechanics, so unless you have a very good group you will have problems. I know groups that before the patch had dps problems on Xera for ex.
ps: i’m not speaking for me, it just bugs me that people that lose alot of time doing bosses because their members don’t play perfectly, don’t even come here complain about the unbalance…. are they waiting for any guild full of great players come here and say that for ex. Necro is trash and is rock on your shoe. You can use it, but the dificuty will increase and that’s not ok… that isn’t a balance. That is the definition of unbalance
How Rev became unplayable ? The only change affecting Rev build does not impact Rev directly but other people around. Ok you know apply less fury but still enough to complete the rotation, if one wants more then use adequate gear or food. The rev itself still does the exact same amount of damage ans his rotation has not been changed. If people starts to say it is revenant’s fault for anything, well I think it is the fault of the guy who needs the remaining 17% of boon duration who has not tried to find a way to get it.
Necro are more welcome in groups for epidemic than their minions (which by the way were summoned by their power/support elite). Sure single taget condi build got affected but it is not where the necor shines in any case. If you liked condi necro before to take care of adds or double condi a boss then take one today because it has not changed and adds are still present in those encounters.
There’s a large difference between what is unplayable and what is optimal. People keep confusing the two.
That’s why before the patch every class as playable. Now go and use your rev or necro and see how good they are, you can play them but your runs will not be that smoth anymore.
So when somehing goes wrong who you think they are going to blame? When dps is missing, who they will start to blame? What classes do you think pugs will start banning?
That’s the problems when you put a balance patch that puts classes on a very different power level
But they are not unplayable as you stated in your post. They’re just not optimal. That’s what I was saying in my post. With how quickly groups can clear raids, and how most groups wipe well before the enrage timer, the issue is rarely lack of DPS but rather lack of performing mechanics correctly and consistently.
I will give you a simple example, if you have a good dps you can do Abomination phase prety fast, so you deal less time with mechanics. Dps afects how much time you have to deal with mechanics, so unless you have a very good group you will have problems. I know groups that before the patch had dps problems on Xera for ex.
ps: i’m not speaking for me, it just bugs me that people that lose alot of time doing bosses because their members don’t play perfectly, don’t even come here complain about the unbalance…. are they waiting for any guild full of great players come here and say that for ex. Necro is trash and is rock on your shoe. You can use it, but the dificuty will increase and that’s not ok… that isn’t a balance. That is the definition of unbalance
But the core issue still comes down to performing the mechanics poorly. Also how much different DPS-wise is the build that someone is running compared to the meta? If they’re similar then the lower DPS is negligible. It’s only when the gap between the two builds become wide enough that you can say that the lack of DPS contributes to the performance of the team.
I stated contributes as mechanics still play a very important part. Unplayable would also mean that having the class results in a failure where the group consistently surpasses the boss’ enrage timer.
(edited by Ayrilana.1396)
Am I the only one that thinks people forget about Plague Signet far too often?
There’s a large difference between what is unplayable and what is optimal. People keep confusing the two.
That’s why before the patch every class as playable. Now go and use your rev or necro and see how good they are, you can play them but your runs will not be that smoth anymore.
So when somehing goes wrong who you think they are going to blame? When dps is missing, who they will start to blame? What classes do you think pugs will start banning?
That’s the problems when you put a balance patch that puts classes on a very different power level
But they are not unplayable as you stated in your post. They’re just not optimal. That’s what I was saying in my post. With how quickly groups can clear raids, and how most groups wipe well before the enrage timer, the issue is rarely lack of DPS but rather lack of performing mechanics correctly and consistently.
I will give you a simple example, if you have a good dps you can do Abomination phase prety fast, so you deal less time with mechanics. Dps afects how much time you have to deal with mechanics, so unless you have a very good group you will have problems. I know groups that before the patch had dps problems on Xera for ex.
ps: i’m not speaking for me, it just bugs me that people that lose alot of time doing bosses because their members don’t play perfectly, don’t even come here complain about the unbalance…. are they waiting for any guild full of great players come here and say that for ex. Necro is trash and is rock on your shoe. You can use it, but the dificuty will increase and that’s not ok… that isn’t a balance. That is the definition of unbalance
But the core issue still comes down to performing the mechanics poorly. Also how much different DPS-wise is the build that someone is running compared to the meta? If they’re similar then the lower DPS is negligible. It’s only when the gap between the two builds become wide enough that you can say that the lack of DPS contributes to the performance of the team.
I stated contributes as mechanics still play a very important part. Unplayable would also mean that having the class results in a failure where the group consistently surpasses the boss’ enrage timer.
Elementalist do close 2 times more dps than a Necro and a Revenant… is that negligible?
There’s a large difference between what is unplayable and what is optimal. People keep confusing the two.
That’s why before the patch every class as playable. Now go and use your rev or necro and see how good they are, you can play them but your runs will not be that smoth anymore.
So when somehing goes wrong who you think they are going to blame? When dps is missing, who they will start to blame? What classes do you think pugs will start banning?
That’s the problems when you put a balance patch that puts classes on a very different power level
But they are not unplayable as you stated in your post. They’re just not optimal. That’s what I was saying in my post. With how quickly groups can clear raids, and how most groups wipe well before the enrage timer, the issue is rarely lack of DPS but rather lack of performing mechanics correctly and consistently.
I will give you a simple example, if you have a good dps you can do Abomination phase prety fast, so you deal less time with mechanics. Dps afects how much time you have to deal with mechanics, so unless you have a very good group you will have problems. I know groups that before the patch had dps problems on Xera for ex.
ps: i’m not speaking for me, it just bugs me that people that lose alot of time doing bosses because their members don’t play perfectly, don’t even come here complain about the unbalance…. are they waiting for any guild full of great players come here and say that for ex. Necro is trash and is rock on your shoe. You can use it, but the dificuty will increase and that’s not ok… that isn’t a balance. That is the definition of unbalance
But the core issue still comes down to performing the mechanics poorly. Also how much different DPS-wise is the build that someone is running compared to the meta? If they’re similar then the lower DPS is negligible. It’s only when the gap between the two builds become wide enough that you can say that the lack of DPS contributes to the performance of the team.
I stated contributes as mechanics still play a very important part. Unplayable would also mean that having the class results in a failure where the group consistently surpasses the boss’ enrage timer.
Elementalist do close 2 times more dps than a Necro and a Revenant… is that negligible?
Read my post again. I’m not going to retype it.
How Rev became unplayable ?
SoI Nerfed → 2 mesmers for quickness
2 Druids and 2 Warriors because of dps buffs, healing and protection if needed
4 Spots left for dps, rev dps wasn’t buffed (they said it will… but no changes at all), necro was nerfed. Ele was buffed indirectly since now you have + alacrity. Rev can’t compete for dps, guardian and thief have a chance but for ex. thief didn’t win anything. D/W ele is the big winner of the balance.
Main reason is SoI nerf because a mesmer and a rev was normally better than 2 mesmers. No you can’t choose is not even viable. You lose alot by playing a rev on your raid combo (and that’s why this patch doesn’t balance anything)
(edited by MFranco.9514)
There’s a large difference between what is unplayable and what is optimal. People keep confusing the two.
That’s why before the patch every class as playable. Now go and use your rev or necro and see how good they are, you can play them but your runs will not be that smoth anymore.
So when somehing goes wrong who you think they are going to blame? When dps is missing, who they will start to blame? What classes do you think pugs will start banning?
That’s the problems when you put a balance patch that puts classes on a very different power level
But they are not unplayable as you stated in your post. They’re just not optimal. That’s what I was saying in my post. With how quickly groups can clear raids, and how most groups wipe well before the enrage timer, the issue is rarely lack of DPS but rather lack of performing mechanics correctly and consistently.
I will give you a simple example, if you have a good dps you can do Abomination phase prety fast, so you deal less time with mechanics. Dps afects how much time you have to deal with mechanics, so unless you have a very good group you will have problems. I know groups that before the patch had dps problems on Xera for ex.
ps: i’m not speaking for me, it just bugs me that people that lose alot of time doing bosses because their members don’t play perfectly, don’t even come here complain about the unbalance…. are they waiting for any guild full of great players come here and say that for ex. Necro is trash and is rock on your shoe. You can use it, but the dificuty will increase and that’s not ok… that isn’t a balance. That is the definition of unbalance
But the core issue still comes down to performing the mechanics poorly. Also how much different DPS-wise is the build that someone is running compared to the meta? If they’re similar then the lower DPS is negligible. It’s only when the gap between the two builds become wide enough that you can say that the lack of DPS contributes to the performance of the team.
I stated contributes as mechanics still play a very important part. Unplayable would also mean that having the class results in a failure where the group consistently surpasses the boss’ enrage timer.
Elementalist do close 2 times more dps than a Necro and a Revenant… is that negligible?
Your last statement is extremely wrong, on a small target a revenant may replace one of the ele, for similar or better DPS in a mirror comp, that was from testing on the raid golem, which favor classes like ele. Go ahead, make a mirror comp squad, go in there and spawn a small golem, you’ll get same or better dps by having a rev in both team (chrono,ps warrior,druid,rev,ele) x 2
Your last statement is extremely wrong, on a small target a revenant may replace one of the ele, for similar or better DPS in a mirror comp, that was from testing on the raid golem, which favor classes like ele. Go ahead, make a mirror comp squad, go in there and spawn a small golem, you’ll get same or better dps by having a rev in both team (chrono,ps warrior,druid,rev,ele) x 2
No you will not get, 4 d/w eles are alot better than a rev/ele. Also guadian/ele is also better and thief/ele. Also Sabetha and Xera are small or medium-small, i’m not sure. Others are Big (Gors, Abom, Sloth and Kc), Vg is medium… trio and escort is not really important.
(edited by MFranco.9514)
Your last statement is extremely wrong, on a small target a revenant may replace one of the ele, for similar or better DPS in a mirror comp, that was from testing on the raid golem, which favor classes like ele. Go ahead, make a mirror comp squad, go in there and spawn a small golem, you’ll get same or better dps by having a rev in both team (chrono,ps warrior,druid,rev,ele) x 2
No you will not get, 4 d/w eles are alot better than a rev/ele. Also guadian/ele is also better and thief/ele.
We tested 5 man sub squad dps.
On large hit box 2 ele as dps was the winner by so far no other option makes sense.
In small hitbox double ele and 1 ele 1 guard and 1 ele 1 rev were roughly equal with the rev perhaps being slightly ahead due to more consistent buff uptime.
The worst was 1 ele 1 thief which was noticeably worse than any of the others which was surprising. My guess is because thief doesn’t help with might or fury. It would be worth trying rev plus thief and no ele on a small hit box but we didn’t think of it.
Your last statement is extremely wrong, on a small target a revenant may replace one of the ele, for similar or better DPS in a mirror comp, that was from testing on the raid golem, which favor classes like ele. Go ahead, make a mirror comp squad, go in there and spawn a small golem, you’ll get same or better dps by having a rev in both team (chrono,ps warrior,druid,rev,ele) x 2
No you will not get, 4 d/w eles are alot better than a rev/ele. Also guadian/ele is also better and thief/ele.
We tested 5 man sub squad dps.
On large hit box 2 ele as dps was the winner by so far no other option makes sense.
In small hitbox double ele and 1 ele 1 guard and 1 ele 1 rev were roughly equal with the rev perhaps being slightly ahead due to more consistent buff uptime.
The worst was 1 ele 1 thief which was noticeably worse than any of the others which was surprising. My guess is because thief doesn’t help with might or fury. It would be worth trying rev plus thief and no ele on a small hit box but we didn’t think of it.
In our teste thief d/d and ele d/w and also double ele d/w were performing better…. d/w ele being alot better than others. But ok i will check that later, maybe. Even that we don’t focus much on that teste, because there is no real small hitboxes on raids.
Also in fact eles are bugged and can do more than the double of dps even on small targets until there is a fix, i don’t know how much you can exploit this damage in raids… but you can have some fun on fractals.