Guild Wars 2

Hello,

Since Heart of Thorns dungeons are not being played that much.
It’s too bad as it was what I liked best.

I am happy to see fractals is better now, but with all the new content (which is nice), dungeons are not being played.
I would like to suggest some reward tree as in fractals (fractals daily). To make the standard dungeons more interesting. What you all think (and devs?)

The purpose is to farm masteries via cof p1 duh. It really is a shame though because I loved dungeons…. Now I feel like I have to do fractals which is content I never really enjoyed because there really is no other pve endgame. Raids are once a week so what happens when I hit 100 in fractals? nothing?

Dutchdevil.6902:

I would like to suggest some reward tree as in fractals (fractals daily). To make the standard dungeons more interesting. What you all think (and devs?)

Anet nerfed dungeon rewards precisely because they didn’t want them played anymore. So why would they now want to make them more interesting?

Lord Kuru.3685:

Anet nerfed dungeon rewards precisely because they didn’t want them played anymore. So why would they now want to make them more interesting?

Wrong.
They said the reward nerf was a good thing for gw2 economy. We dont play them anymore because nobody wants 20 silver for a run, u can get way more running with the ‘trains’ spamming 1111.
But the content is there, they could do some daily rewards for it or something to make them worthy.
Leaving them behind like this wont make a good case for a mmo company like Anet or any other.
Imagine how a guy that wants to start playing gw2 now, asks around about why there is no party for dungeons in the lfg and all u can tell them is “reward nerf, move on do something else”.

I think we all understand that HoT is new and needs some dev love atm, that this is a business after all and Anet wants/needs bit more players to use their CC but LEAVING DUNGEON PLAIN DEAD CANT BE GOOD, even more when a good part of your player base used to run them daily for various reasons.

tAzz.8497:

Lord Kuru.3685:

Anet nerfed dungeon rewards precisely because they didn’t want them played anymore. So why would they now want to make them more interesting?

Wrong.
They said the reward nerf was a good thing for gw2 economy.

Actually, you’re wrong. They literally came out and said they wanted to disincentivize dungeon play.

Lord Kuru.3685:

tAzz.8497:

Lord Kuru.3685:

Anet nerfed dungeon rewards precisely because they didn’t want them played anymore. So why would they now want to make them more interesting?

Wrong.
They said the reward nerf was a good thing for gw2 economy.

Actually, you’re wrong. They literally came out and said they wanted to disincentivize dungeon play.

They can’t exactly come out and admit they killed dungeons because too many players were buying gems with gold instead of actual money, can they?

Have you ever heard of a developer actively dissuading players from playing established and functional content? Its unprecedented, at least to me.

that could be a reason why anet is not answering to any of the dungeon threads…

But well their game just went boring now without dungeon tours … Open world is that brainless … I can’t enjoy it without watching some movie while doing this …

Fotm mobs in higher level are not really challenging … They just have tons of toughness and hp… Perhaps the intended time sink …

You still can make money with farming SW etc. No, it was nerfed be cause it generated money out of thin air. Not money that was already in circulation which happens if you get mats and sell it on the TP.

You can still run the dungeons and use the tokens to buy exotic gear.

I don’t understand in the slightest some of the decisions they make. Do they not realize how ridiculous, unprofessional, and self-sabotaging it is to not support content in the game because they laid off the guy that designed it?

Dungeons are important – the open world doesn’t replace it, a single raid doesn’t replace it, and FotM is not enough. They need to put together a team to seriously look at overhauling all of the dungeon content in the game and adding more of it. Period.

I agree with einlanzer. Please make more dungeons.. and more challeging ones. That is what i loves about gw2. Now its just event grinding in the new maps.. feels like i am not doing much.. thats why i played gw2. For the dungeons!
Please anet devs!!! Do something about this.. redo the nerf

The purpose of dungeons is to provide instanced content that allows you to play with up to 4 other players. Anything else is extra and you are not entitled to anything extra.

logan.5846:

Have you ever heard of a developer actively dissuading players from playing established and functional content? Its unprecedented, at least to me.

John Smith.4610:

Is the intention to deincentivize dungeons?
Yes

TheRandomGuy.7246:

logan.5846:

Have you ever heard of a developer actively dissuading players from playing established and functional content? Its unprecedented, at least to me.

John Smith.4610:

Is the intention to deincentivize dungeons?
Yes

This is kinda taken out of context. Dungeons were heavy on rewards relative to other gold generating activities in the game (example SilverWastes). Granted, I feel the reward nerf was a bit heavy handed, it served a real purpose of curbing the gold generation in the game.

Only John Smith and his associates have the real data to back up their actions so we should trust that he is a capable economist and trust that his actions WILL benefit the health of the economy as well as the overall game.

Tree.3916:

TheRandomGuy.7246:

logan.5846:

Have you ever heard of a developer actively dissuading players from playing established and functional content? Its unprecedented, at least to me.

John Smith.4610:

Is the intention to deincentivize dungeons?
Yes

This is kinda taken out of context. Dungeons were heavy on rewards relative to other gold generating activities in the game (example SilverWastes). Granted, I feel the reward nerf was a bit heavy handed, it served a real purpose of curbing the gold generation in the game.

Only John Smith and his associates have the real data to back up their actions so we should trust that he is a capable economist and trust that his actions WILL benefit the health of the economy as well as the overall game.

“Is the intention to disincentivize dungeons?” “Yes.” I don’t see how that’s not 100% clear.

Tree.3916:

Only John Smith and his associates have the real data to back up their actions so we should trust that he is a capable economist and trust that his actions WILL benefit the health of the economy as well as the overall game.

Believe!

I say trust because I doubt any one posting on this forum has a degree in economics as well as numerous years of industry experience in conjunction with the massive amount of data Anet collects on the economy. So until one of you are hired by Anet to balance the economy, I will TRUST John Smith with any decision he makes.

John Smith’s job is to protect the economy, not to provide fun content. I trust he will do his job.

Will we enjoy it when he does so? Maybe, but getting less of anything in games is rarely fun.

Tree.3916:

I say trust because I doubt any one posting on this forum has a degree in economics as well as numerous years of industry experience in conjunction with the massive amount of data Anet collects on the economy. So until one of you are hired by Anet to balance the economy, I will TRUST John Smith with any decision he makes.

Well, that’s for me like trusting economists from banking institutions before the global economic crisis some years ago or Volkswagen nowadays…

I am very disappointed in Anet for nerfing dungeons. It is now near impossible for us PvPers to get short and sharp gold, so we’re gonna be poor forever.
SW is the only option now. Dungeons were perfectly balanced before, now they suck.

They should return dungeon rewards to prenerf levels and double the bonus tokens, but make it a weekly reward.

This keeps it in sync with raid rewardsand gives players incentive to run it while not flooding the economy with gold

Tree.3916:

I say trust because I doubt any one posting on this forum has a degree in economics as well as numerous years of industry experience in conjunction with the massive amount of data Anet collects on the economy. So until one of you are hired by Anet to balance the economy, I will TRUST John Smith with any decision he makes.

Well just because you believe John Smith is capable of achieving his goals does not mean his goals align with your own. They stated too much gold was coming into the economy, so they nerfed dungeon’s gold rewards, while simultaneously putting a lot more gold sink into fractals.

As far as causing deflation is concerned, this is probably going to be successful. But as far as I can see, it specifically targeted a particular type of player (the ones in this forum), and as a result, 5 man instanced content in this game is now much more unrewarding, with a much larger gold barrier to entry (AR).

Deflation is probably achieved. But I’d rather have a rewarding 5 man content.

ProtoGunner.4953:

You still can make money with farming SW etc. No, it was nerfed be cause it generated money out of thin air. Not money that was already in circulation which happens if you get mats and sell it on the TP.

You can still run the dungeons and use the tokens to buy exotic gear.

This guy gets it. Dungeon runs were generating way too much gold into the system. That’s why they were nerfed. Why they didn’t just turn the rewards into more resources that you can use or trade beats me.

Back in the days of GW1 I only ran dungeons for fun. Now it changed, it seems people are only running for reward.

It was a nice bonus to get gold, but it was way too much. Initially they introduced dungeons be cause they though it is hard endgame content. Over time it has been trivialized mainly by the community. Running an AC fullrun in less than one hour and netting approx. 5+ gold is absurd and total out of balance. You still get the tokens which can produce unbound exotics which usually sell for a couple – 1200g.

You have to see the big picture: we as players aren’t individuals, we are a mass of consumers and what this mass does is playing in the most effective way. Nerfs like this are done in order to balance the economy. As I already mentioned, you get gold out of nothing, it is generated. Unlike in SW where you mainly sell your stuff on the TP.

ProtoGunner.4953:

You still can make money with farming SW etc. No, it was nerfed be cause it generated money out of thin air. Not money that was already in circulation which happens if you get mats and sell it on the TP.

You can still run the dungeons and use the tokens to buy exotic gear.

Tom Gore.4035

This guy gets it. Dungeon runs were generating way too much gold into the system. That’s why they were nerfed. Why they didn’t just turn the rewards into more resources that you can use or trade beats me.

No, you don’t necessarily get it. Guild Wars Two is a fantasy economy Anet have created and one in which they actively manipulate the exchange rates as well as the availability of commodities in circulation in order to facilitate the purchase of Gems with actual world money.

The majority of players -casuals in particular- who enjoyed dungeons did indeed do them partly for the gold but that wasn’t the whole story. Most of those players don’t/didn’t do fifty gold per day full dungeons tours- I’d argue that the players who did those were in a minority. Loss leaders as most hard core players, just as an example -not to single them out- are when it comes to development dollars(raids being the least run contents with the highest required Q&A and balancing) as well as bandwidth costs.

What that little bit of gold from dungeons did do was pay for incidentals. Minor things such as foods, grind stones, or powerful potions of slaying which I used in -guess what- dungeons!

But if a new item on the Black Lion Gem Store appeared -a toy or some other cosmetic item- was introduced and I, who for my four dungeons paths run per day, didn’t have the gold saved then I, as a casual, often spent money on gems as an impulse purchase to augment what I’d collected. In the end Anet gets everything.

Tote up the pretend money which hasn’t been introduced into the pretend economy(keep in mind they’d printing all of it) and then ask Mr. Smith how many players who out of disgust at these changes have just quit spending on Gems and Gem Store purchases. It’s false economy.

Guild Wars Two’s Economy is a Company Store. You spend in game gold(scrip) to defray gem store purchases but you NEVER earn enough to buy that ‘OMG BUY NOW IT’S HERE FOR ONLY A LIMITED TIME’ item. You want to impulse buy? You buy gems. There is no refund for gems. Once bought they never again leave the economy as actual world currency. When this game is shut down whatever has been bought is lost to the ether. It’s pure profit for Anet and don’t pretend it’s anything more or less.

Yes, you could wave the -You’re not an economist- flag about. And I’ll answer with this- Ever heard of spending a little(and by a little I mean absolutely nothing -as again, it’s Anet printing fake money for their online game) to make a whole lot more? Apparently John Smith hasn’t either.

This is greed. Greed on top of greed. They’ve been making money by printing fake money and now they want even more. Golden goose, anybody?

Nobody mentions the gold or revenues lost to the gold selling outfits who still spam us in capital cities. If anybody has an incentive to do fifty gold per day runs, but moreover to participate in endless SW trains, sell you the gold to buy the items they’ve sold from there and then sell you the gold all over again, it’s them.

They’ll certainly undercut Anet and that gold might be converted to gems or spent on the trading post. Even so, lowering dungeon gold rewards isn’t a healthy solution to gold sellers. It’s a path of least resistance effort, every bit as impotent and in the long run costly as DRM; being that it’s too expensive to try and track seller behaviour, as even if admins have the archival datas to sift through, they’d need to be pointed toward offenders and that isn’t efficient. What more, those on the buying end aren’t liable to snitch on their suppliers.

In the long run these measures hurt all players. And in the end the sellers won’t go away, only the insulted/disgruntled legitimate customers.

I won’t deny that if gold rewards were left as is that they might have lead to a loss of a few cents per player over a year(a lot when aggregated, I know, but I still don’t believe it- read; company store). But players won’t necessarily make up for that shortfall. And in the long term the player trust and good will that have been lost are beyond priceless.

Edit: And as an additional point- not only is the lowering rewards detrimental to the in game economy, but players such as myself and my guild, who would have been more than happy to achieve Tyrian masteries through a continuation of our regular daily play styles have either abandoned those playstyles(dungeons) or have resorted to things such as CoF path one farming. This, in the long run, will also negatively impact Anet as it will not only undermine the spirit in which HoT is meant to be enjoyed, but in so doing will shorten the intended life of the expansion. And yes, less players logging in(those who’ve ground out masteries quickly, found themselves at loose ends, and have left) is less impulse purchases on the Gem Store.

They had this kitten approach every time.
Some players abuse some instance or spot, event whatever for some LOOOONG time then here comes Anet and fks everybody because that aint good anymore.
I still dont get it how the kitten do u remove dungeons out of the big picture so eazy.

Why does nobody ever quote the very next part of John Smith’s post?

John Smith.4610:

Is the intention to deincentivize dungeons
Yes

Is the intention to reduce targeted liquid gold earning, or are you putting that liquid somewhere else thats targetable?
The intention is not entirely to reduce liquid gold earning, we’ll be using up the slack we generate in other locations

What type of instanced content do you see offering marketable rewards that players can take part in on a regular basis?
Fractals

I feel like this is really clear. “Right now people run dungeons for gold. We’d prefer they run Fractals for gold instead.”

timmyf.1490:

Why does nobody ever quote the very next part of John Smith’s post?

John Smith.4610:

Is the intention to deincentivize dungeons
Yes

Is the intention to reduce targeted liquid gold earning, or are you putting that liquid somewhere else thats targetable?
The intention is not entirely to reduce liquid gold earning, we’ll be using up the slack we generate in other locations

What type of instanced content do you see offering marketable rewards that players can take part in on a regular basis?
Fractals

I feel like this is really clear. “Right now people run dungeons for gold. We’d prefer they run Fractals for gold instead.”

Ty for bringing that up. We can’t repeat it enough times!