Quality run Or rare rewards?
A dungeon run without a wipe is much cooler
I’ve started asking my groups if anyone is running MF (food I can deal with, gear not so much). I will not boot/leave if people have green/rare/lvl 75 stuff, but parasite suits and leech sticks are another story.
Content in this game will always seem
to be faceroll at the high levels, because it
needs to be accessible to the casuals and bads.
to be faceroll at the high levels, because it
needs to be accessible to the casuals and bads.
1. Don’t compare GW1 to GW2. Nothing in common.
2. The only way GW2 can be considered as a sequel is lore-wise.
3. This game is more gear based than I thought. Try wearing whites in dgs. I did.
4. The notion of MF coordinates with the philosophy of the game as it is now. Farming. Farming. Single play. That’s why so may fail at dungeons: you play the whole game on your own with your selfish build, your selfish utility skills, your selfish runes, and then you step in any dungeon and get wrecked.
5. Loot in this game is painfully bad. Guess why.
6. I’d never gimp myself AND MY TEAM for the sake of a minimal possibility in drop increase. I’m in a minority (See point 4). Nobody gives a crap about other people you’re playing with.
→ I PLAY THE WAY I WANT!!!! <-
I’d immediately kick MF-wearers if I ever had to get a pug in my guild runs. Why?
I can’t accept the idea behind wearing MF. Disgusting parasites.
I can’t accept the idea behind wearing MF. Disgusting parasites.
Tell us how you really feel
Desade, I agree with your opinion of mf wearers. but there’s a difference when the game is actually encouraging you to do it by rewarding you better if you do.
That’s the one thing I can’t understand-why?
If anything I would assume the game should reward players who go out of their way to walk out of this trend and be more helpful towards their group mates.
I’ve started asking my groups if anyone is running MF (food I can deal with, gear not so much). I will not boot/leave if people have green/rare/lvl 75 stuff, but parasite suits and leech sticks are another story.
Not the first time I’ve heard this but I don’t follow the logic. You don’t care about people being less effective in combat, just less effective and getting more loot. If you aren’t also booting people for using low-level gear, bad utilities, less effective trait builds, or just being bad players (admittedly harder to gauge up-front), why kick people for using MF gear? Do you kick people using MF food? How about no food (which is weaker even for combat than MF food)? How about for using stacking MF sigils? How about for using no sigils at all? All I’m really getting is “I’d rather my groupmates be half-naked and half-AFK than be able to trade combat effectiveness for better rewards”.
Either you’re trying to optimize your group to be better or you don’t care.
I’m of the opinion that not using MF is a poor investment in most PvE content, particularly content that isn’t really challenging, and I’d urge my groupmates to run at least some MF.
(edited by Tulisin.6945)
This notion has baffled me since the release of the game, since clearly one of the major long term goals for your money is obtaining the highly desired legendary weapons- a goal which may currently translate to -“if you wear magic find and gimp yourself to make your group suffer,you become legendary”.
I had a CoF run with someone who had “Sunrise”. It looked very cool. And he was one of the worst players I’ve ever seen. He pretty much just autoattacked doing very little dps. And he was in downed state a lot.
I’ve had runs with groups that had dismal dps. Maybe they were wearing magic find gear.
If you aren’t also booting people for using low-level gear, bad utilities, less effective trait builds, or just being bad players (admittedly harder to gauge up-front), why kick people for using MF gear?
Mainly because people who has bad gear don’t have anything better, while the MFer probably has 3 or 4 sets of good gear sitting on their bank but prefers to use rare MF gear and green jewerly (usual set up for MFers, very few use exotic and still, a green set of normal gear has better stats than exotic MF gear).
I ask myself the same thing, I don’t understand how MF in dungeons made it into this game…I can’t believe MF works in dungeons where you are playing with a group and making your team worse intentionally for a self profit.
I agree with DevaGan completely, i don’t mind if someone has bad gear (mainly because there is not worse gear than MF gear stats wise, as I said a green set of gear will be much better) because at least they are running the dungeon to get better, but having someone using bad gear on purpose is a big no for me.
(edited by Sleepy.2647)
I’ve had runs with groups that had dismal dps. Maybe they were wearing magic find gear.
While that is possible, poor trait choice, an ineffective play style, or even bad utilities contribute much more to DPS than all but the highest concentrations of MF. If your thief is running Signet of Shadows, for instance, getting them to change that would be enough to offset everyone in the group going from 0 % MF to 70 %~ MF, easy.
Warning: big wall of text ahead
Not the first time I’ve heard this but I don’t follow the logic. You don’t care about people being less effective in combat, just less effective and getting more loot. If you aren’t also booting people for using low-level gear, bad utilities, less effective trait builds, or just being bad players (admittedly harder to gauge up-front), why kick people for using MF gear?
It’s more about the attitude than the results. People with magic find are intentionally gimping themselves (significantly as well, partially due to magic find being the major stat, and partially because power/precision and power/condition damage may not even be good stats for their builds). People with other subpar gear may not be able to attain anything better, but if I see that they are trying, I will also try to help them.
I probably should have been a bit more clear. Green items can basically be “rented” for a few coppers (sold to merchant for little more than initial price when something better is found), so I would set level 80 greens as a bare minimum to my group. Of course, some lower level rare and exotic gear will have stats better than green lvl 80 stuff, and I’m perfectly fine with that.
Do you kick people using MF food?
I don’t have much problem with it, especially if it has a useful secondary stat (i.e., peach tarts), but if anyone else in my group objects to it, I will definitely side with him. When using food and potions becomes more widespread, and content difficulty adjusts accordingly, my opinion on this could very well change.
How about no food (which is weaker even for combat than MF food)?
How is this worse for combat than omnomberry bars? On the other hand, I generally carry around a large stack of blackberry pies (and often potions in dungeons) that I do not mind passing out.
How about for using stacking MF sigils? How about for using no sigils at all?
Magic find sigils are a big no. It is also the most obvious tell that someone is using magic find. I’m not going to apply overwhelming pressure to people to ping their gear, but if a PUG shows a magic find sigil during a run, I will have no remorse kicking/leaving.
All I’m really getting is “I’d rather my groupmates be half-naked and half-AFK than be able to trade combat effectiveness for better rewards”.
Either you’re trying to optimize your group to be better or you don’t care.
And this is where I see that you’re not trying to understand this viewpoint, and trying to find fault with my views. I’m not an elitist in that I’ll kick people for not being 80 with full exotics, but I am proudly an elitist in that I expect my group to put as much effort into the run as I do. Limited resources is an acceptable bottleneck; laziness/cheapness/greediness are not.
I’m of the opinion that not using MF is a poor investment in most PvE content, particularly content that isn’t really challenging, and I’d urge my groupmates to run at least some MF.
I have no issue with MFers who openly and actively encourage the rest of their group to run MF. I have a big problem with MFers who hide behind teammates with real gear and expect to be carried.
Finally, I do believe MF is a terrible mechanic that should either be removed or changed to be less parasitic.
Content in this game will always seem
to be faceroll at the high levels, because it
needs to be accessible to the casuals and bads.
to be faceroll at the high levels, because it
needs to be accessible to the casuals and bads.
Finally, I do believe MF is a terrible mechanic that should either be removed or changed to be less parasitic.
I’m all for that, even if I don’t follow the rest of your reasoning.
The only difference between someone running a life steal sigil on their weapon so they can be lazy and dodge less and someone running a MF sigil on their weapon so they can get more loot is that in the latter case they get rewarded with loot and in the former case they get rewarded with being able to pay less attention. Heck, at least they can max the MF sigil and switch it out for something that helps them in combat.
Either you’re forcing everyone to get with the program and play in an optimally combat effective way or you’re just bitter about people being rewarded with loot instead of requiring less effort. Basically, “Look, you don’t have to fight hard or use effective attacks, as long as doing so doesn’t get you more stuff than it gets me”, which is a philosophy that not only hurts the inidividual person but the group as a whole.
Sometimes I swap berserker jewelry to valkyrie jewelry for survivability because I know an upcoming encounter is particularly unforgiving and I either don’t want to put my full attention into dodging or I don’t want to spend money on some dodge food. I know this hurts my group as a whole, and I’m only doing it to cover my own desire to use less attention or spend less money, but I do it anyways. If I gave it my A-game or ate some dodge food I could just as easily swap to MF jewelry for the same effect, but under your group philosophy that is wrong while the former is okay.
(edited by Tulisin.6945)
Yes I do want my group to be as optimal as “reasonably” possible. We may differ on how we define “reasonably”.
Dodging is a loss of DPS if it could have been prevented. It may also throw aggro on someone not expecting it. If a sigil of blood saves a few dodges it’s absolutely doing its job.
Maybe filtering for suboptimal gameplay and/or build/traits is not out of the question, but unlike MF it is harder to spot, especially before we start the run.
Again though, I’m more focused on effort than results. I would fully expect the guy who can solo Lupicus to contribute more in Arah than a first time PUG, even if both were in my group together.
Also, I would probably be more lenient towards people like you who seem to have a non-MF set just in case. /kick would still be swiftly and mercilessly used, though, if they didn’t swap at Lupicus.
Content in this game will always seem
to be faceroll at the high levels, because it
needs to be accessible to the casuals and bads.
to be faceroll at the high levels, because it
needs to be accessible to the casuals and bads.
I think it’s safe to say that while our opinions as for group mates may differ we all can agree that mf gear is a bad mechanic.
Id like to propose an alternative to this mechanic as well as encourage everyone else to recommend some of their own.
It’s clear to me that the original intent for this mechanic was to give players a reasonable reward at the price of performance.
My suggestion is to do the opposite: reward them for performance and teamwork.
Example- each dungeon will have a set of repeatable achievements like Agent of Entropy. these might include things like perform x combo fields.
After a player completed the achievement he gets a personal chest containing a random rare/exotic item or rare materials.
This will not only preserve the sense of acheivement but also reward players for being skillful and working as a team.