Guild Wars 2

Hello all,

I’ll make this as short and painless as possible. If there was already a topic(s) dealing with these questions already, let me apologize in advance.

I wanted to ask everyone on what is their feedback on adding an option to view a player’s progression on boss kills for 10-mans. For example, {{"Player account name" has successfully killed X/9 bosses}} or something to the effect of a title that shows they cleared wings like: “Spirit Vale Liberator”/“Salvation Pass Quencher”/ “Forsaken Thicket Conqueror” etc…

I see alot of people heart-broken of being kicked from raids due to their inexperience and I’m pretty sure raid commanders want experienced players for their runs. I know there’s individuals who say they know what they are doing but it shows they don’t and it wastes everyone’s time and in-game money on foods and such.

Also, as I’ve seen a topic on here dealing with practice mode 10-mans, why not just remove the timer and if/when they kill the boss it shows their time on kill so they can make the adjustments needed on their other attempts. (maybe show their dps/condi dmg/healing….similar to the practice golems).

As stated, I can add more to further show my points, but I want to keep it as short as possible.

Just questions and if anyone has feedback(realistic/reasonable) on this, please post your replies. If anyone needs more clarification on my questions then please don’t hesitate to ask….TYVM

Raiders wouldn’t care, since they are normally in guilds, but a lot of “casuals” /PuGS would hate that option, inb4 the hate comments since a lot of players try to lie to get into raids by linking fake Li pings.

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Raiders wouldn’t care, since they are normally in guilds, but a lot of “casuals” /PuGS would hate that option, inb4 the hate comments since a lot of players try to lie to get into raids by linking fake Li pings.

I agree, but there’s times in which raiders miss runs with their guilds due to “real-life’ unstable schedules and have to resort to pugs. Especially, in the NA with school and semesters happening now…puglife seems more the option for ’busy” players atm

There are titles already. “Eternal”, “Slippery Slubbing” to mention 2. odds are that folks with those have done a fair share of raiding.

Joxer.6024:

There are titles already. “Eternal”, “Slippery Slubbing” to mention 2. odds are that folks with those have done a fair share of raiding.

I agree, but these titles only apply to Spirit Vale and Sloth, what if a raid commander is looking for a group for Matthias, how far can those titles carry you to prove your experience for that situation.

Why stop at an “Eternal” title? Extend it to Sp and Wing 3 or just have an option to view the bosses a player has killed.

I’m not picking on the players that don’t have ‘kills’ on bosses, but it will save them and the group’s time to identify what everyone is getting into before the encounter.

There is training runs posted on LFM for players to get the mechanics down, I just think it’s a recipe for disaster when players get kicked for lying or linking false LI’s to get carried on runs with groups that want kills.

Trying to look out for the exp and non-exp so interactions can go smoother and clearer between both parties.

-Or-

If Anet wants to promote ‘No players left behind’ attitude, why not give double M shards or guaranteed ascended drops to exp players helping out the non-exp players in the group.

I’m sure everyone wouldn’t mind that…win-win on both sides

Quasar.1756:

Joxer.6024:

There are titles already. “Eternal”, “Slippery Slubbing” to mention 2. odds are that folks with those have done a fair share of raiding.

Why stop at an “Eternal” title? Extend it to Sp and Wing 3 or just have an option to view the bosses a player has killed.

even if they are not the most practical, there is the tonic for w1+2 and the experimental armor for all wings

-Or-

If Anet wants to promote ‘No players left behind’ attitude, why not give double M shards or guaranteed ascended drops to exp players helping out the non-exp players in the group.

I’m sure everyone wouldn’t mind that…win-win on both sides

Raiders are shard capped after a full clear already.
Regarding the ascended drops:
I am sure people would find a way to exploit that.

Linus The One.7432:

Quasar.1756:

Joxer.6024:

There are titles already. “Eternal”, “Slippery Slubbing” to mention 2. odds are that folks with those have done a fair share of raiding.

Why stop at an “Eternal” title? Extend it to Sp and Wing 3 or just have an option to view the bosses a player has killed.

even if they are not the most practical, there is the tonic for w1+2 and the experimental armor for all wings

-Or-

If Anet wants to promote ‘No players left behind’ attitude, why not give double M shards or guaranteed ascended drops to exp players helping out the non-exp players in the group.

I’m sure everyone wouldn’t mind that…win-win on both sides

Raiders are shard capped after a full clear already.
Regarding the ascended drops:
I am sure people would find a way to exploit that.

1) Ok, that is true on what you typed, however; I believe the you have to be on the legendary armor journey to get that (not 100% sure)…just don’t see the point of going through all your bags and inventory when there should/can be a faster more efficient method of proving your kills…IMO of course

2) Very good point, however you can be shard capped and still get M shards from trading in minis. Maybe drop an item that you can trade in for “X” shards that doesnt count towards your cap.

Only exploit is see is if players buy another account and run with their guilds to help others out, but in the end, Anet wins as well ($$$$)…still a win-win for all…don’t see the benefit, in the long run, to buying multiple accounts when you can find ppl that are interested in raids that never killed ‘X’ boss(es).

There is a computer code that does know if you killed "X’ boss(es) cause it would/won’t allow you to get access to that boss’ goodies in the raid vendors….so I know it can be done to a point….how hard would it be to make in the game is another story that I have no idea of, tbh.

Not really much point to help out once someone is capped and cleared 9/9. I actually lose money helping someone after I get my clear due to consumable costs. That’s why a lot of people are trying to push for repeated rewards because as of now there is zero point in helping.

Oh Snapalope.1378:

Not really much point to help out once someone is capped and cleared 9/9. I actually lose money helping someone after I get my clear due to consumable costs. That’s why a lot of people are trying to push for repeated rewards because as of now there is zero point in helping.

Repeated rewards aren’t pushed to encourage helping, it’s to encourage replayability of raids during the week. The only point in helping is the fact that you’re helping. Adding repeated rewards will change nothing if you don’t manage to kill the boss, or manage to kill 1 boss after 2-3h. Imo it will have the opposite effect, encouraging people to kill each boss in 6 min for maximum profit/day or /kill discarding anything inferior, including people that struggle.

Most people I know raid for fun and the rewards are just icing on the cake. Otherwise they would not kill the bosses multiple times with different groups which I would consider as “helping”. Sure some are also killing them over and over to train to get better/lowmanning them but as far as i can see it, those are rather a minority.

Quasar.1756:

Hello all,

I’ll make this as short and painless as possible. If there was already a topic(s) dealing with these questions already, let me apologize in advance.

I wanted to ask everyone on what is their feedback on adding an option to view a player’s progression on boss kills for 10-mans. For example, {{"Player account name" has successfully killed X/9 bosses}} or something to the effect of a title that shows they cleared wings like: “Spirit Vale Liberator”/“Salvation Pass Quencher”/ “Forsaken Thicket Conqueror” etc…

I see alot of people heart-broken of being kicked from raids due to their inexperience and I’m pretty sure raid commanders want experienced players for their runs. I know there’s individuals who say they know what they are doing but it shows they don’t and it wastes everyone’s time and in-game money on foods and such.

Also, as I’ve seen a topic on here dealing with practice mode 10-mans, why not just remove the timer and if/when they kill the boss it shows their time on kill so they can make the adjustments needed on their other attempts. (maybe show their dps/condi dmg/healing….similar to the practice golems).

As stated, I can add more to further show my points, but I want to keep it as short as possible.

Just questions and if anyone has feedback(realistic/reasonable) on this, please post your replies. If anyone needs more clarification on my questions then please don’t hesitate to ask….TYVM

I find this silly,

I am in 1 guild and a PvP friend guild sells raids. The guild team that sells raids basically can 7 man all the raid bosses.

The side guild i am in just killed VG in 7 minutes with 3 minutes to spare with no food and we killed gors in 6 minutes with 1 minute left. They didnt ask anyones build and said basically that the core 5 guild members was enough.

The raid community has a real high horse say “experienced” but that doesnt mean good. Ive ran into more “EXPERIENCED” raid groups who needed carry then pugs who were completely lost so it goes both ways.

Raids are already really easy for the elite raiders, give a chance to the “experienced” players to catch up so they can carry these people coming in.

Sidenote- I saw my friends guild team beat Xera and matt with 7 guys. 2 People paid to get there few shots in and the AP for it and i was simply there because they couldnt find anyone else for a spot so i got free Xera and Matt rewards. So i find this post a bit on the high and mighty side.

Oh Snapalope.1378:

Not really much point to help out once someone is capped and cleared 9/9. I actually lose money helping someone after I get my clear due to consumable costs. That’s why a lot of people are trying to push for repeated rewards because as of now there is zero point in helping.

One of the many points I’ve presented is to incline players who are ‘experienced’ to run with those players who are NOT ‘experienced’ by giving rewards(even after they have cleared 9/9). The rewards will/can have value, so much so, it will exceed the cost you paid for your consumables to prepare for the raid. The point is to try to make players have more than a ‘zero point’ in assisting others…hope that makes sense.

Nordom.3485:

Oh Snapalope.1378:

Not really much point to help out once someone is capped and cleared 9/9. I actually lose money helping someone after I get my clear due to consumable costs. That’s why a lot of people are trying to push for repeated rewards because as of now there is zero point in helping.

Repeated rewards aren’t pushed to encourage helping, it’s to encourage replayability of raids during the week. The only point in helping is the fact that you’re helping. Adding repeated rewards will change nothing if you don’t manage to kill the boss, or manage to kill 1 boss after 2-3h. Imo it will have the opposite effect, encouraging people to kill each boss in 6 min for maximum profit/day or /kill discarding anything inferior, including people that struggle.

I agree with most (not all) of what you replied here, can you go more into detail about your opinion of pushing multiple runs with players that don’t have kills will have a negative effect…I would like to read your reasoning, ty

kdaddy.5431:

Quasar.1756:

Hello all,

I’ll make this as short and painless as possible. If there was already a topic(s) dealing with these questions already, let me apologize in advance.

I wanted to ask everyone on what is their feedback on adding an option to view a player’s progression on boss kills for 10-mans. For example, {{"Player account name" has successfully killed X/9 bosses}} or something to the effect of a title that shows they cleared wings like: “Spirit Vale Liberator”/“Salvation Pass Quencher”/ “Forsaken Thicket Conqueror” etc…

I see alot of people heart-broken of being kicked from raids due to their inexperience and I’m pretty sure raid commanders want experienced players for their runs. I know there’s individuals who say they know what they are doing but it shows they don’t and it wastes everyone’s time and in-game money on foods and such.

Also, as I’ve seen a topic on here dealing with practice mode 10-mans, why not just remove the timer and if/when they kill the boss it shows their time on kill so they can make the adjustments needed on their other attempts. (maybe show their dps/condi dmg/healing….similar to the practice golems).

As stated, I can add more to further show my points, but I want to keep it as short as possible.

Just questions and if anyone has feedback(realistic/reasonable) on this, please post your replies. If anyone needs more clarification on my questions then please don’t hesitate to ask….TYVM

I find this silly,

1) I think you only find it silly based off of your pre-conceived understanding and acceptance of what it means, currently in-game, to get EXP players to RAID with NoN-EXP players.

I am in 1 guild and a PvP friend guild sells raids. The guild team that sells raids basically can 7 man all the raid bosses.

2) ^ This quote is the reason of why I stated what I stated in the "1)’ response.

The side guild i am in just killed VG in 7 minutes with 3 minutes to spare with no food and we killed gors in 6 minutes with 1 minute left. They didnt ask anyones build and said basically that the core 5 guild members was enough.

3)My post had NOTHING to do with builds, so where did that come from (pre-conceived thinking maybe?)

The raid community has a real high horse say “experienced” but that doesnt mean good. Ive ran into more “EXPERIENCED” raid groups who needed carry then pugs who were completely lost so it goes both ways.

4)This comparison of Experienced players and Pugs shows a “high horse” way of thinking. So pug groups and experience groups are can’t be one and the same? Doesn’t that seem hypocritical of the point you are trying to make here or is it your pre-conceived way of thinking of who is good and who is bad?

Raids are already really easy for the elite raiders, give a chance to the “experienced” players to catch up so they can carry these people coming in.

5) Didn’t know “elite raiders” and “experienced players” are two different breeds of the gw2 community. Maybe all ‘elite raiders’ are ‘experienced players’ but all ‘experienced players’ are NOT “elite raiders”? (Not sure of where you are trying to go here)

Sidenote- I saw my friends guild team beat Xera and matt with 7 guys. 2 People paid to get there few shots in and the AP for it and i was simply there because they couldnt find anyone else for a spot so i got free Xera and Matt rewards. So i find this post a bit on the high and mighty side.

6) Pointing out kills with less players needed to achieve ’X" objective, in itself. shows a high-horse mentality in regards on why you are making this point in your reply.

It seems to me (and I could be wrong here), the best solution(s) for players that want kills to get kills is to pay for them or at the very least WAIT for ‘experienced’ players to ‘catch up’.

My questions/suggestions, in the essence of ‘raiding to get {{extra rewards}}’, falls in the same definition of what you are implying (if that is what you are implying).

My sidenote- Look, my post was off of a neutral side of the spectrum. I was finding a solution for the non-exp and the exp together so they can come/work together and everyone leaves the raid with something they are happy with. I’m not on the side of those with kills or those without kills(neutral). My standpoint was to find a solution to an existing issue in gw2 as you read this post. Some ppl don’t have 300g for a wing clear and some ppl just don’t have the time to wait on ‘experienced players to catch up’ as you put it. If my post comes off as rude or one-sided then I want to assure you, that it wasn’t my intention for it to be so. Just want to offer something here and get ‘reasonable’ feedback is all…nothing more, nothing less

All i was trying to point out is your trying to segregate people even more. Im not in these groups, heck i got my first SAB kill today and my raid group carried me. Ive simply been farming VG and GORS. Ive seen a friends raid group 7 man it not me.

We already have groups that want LI ping, gear ping, food check, and now you were suggesting a kills total? Its already tough enough for people coming in who want to play condi ranger, or thief, or something a raid group doesnt want.

Raids have a certain set up tot hem making certain builds the Apex, now you want to add a count like how many times a person has killed X boss. Anet did away with being able to see a players PvP level because of scrutiny sent out to new players or players at a high level but lost in fights or couldnt carry.

If you dont understand the past who cant change the future. Raids are already easy enough for some and terribly hard for others. Your simply adding to a situation that haves baggage with this question.

Now of course i wasnt trying to be rude, you definitely werent but this thread is like the rich guy walking into the party talking about how cheap everything is when the person who paid for it spent alot on it and this guy can only bring them down.

I understand the need for meaningful reward.

For instance a challenger mode for a raid group that gives a certain ascended gear title. That way this raiding person can say hey im really good at raiding.

The PvP community has wanted anything that represented a PvP player and they got titles which Anet couldnt even post for this season till last week.

There are so many thing they could do and this is not one of them. If you want a way for yourself or other raiders who want to see a legitimate way of seeing the value of a player they are bringing in. Im all for it except when it can be held against other players.

I have made it to legendary 3 times in PvP, it shouldnt stop me from being able to play with my friends who are in sapphire or ruby. Anet MM system has destroyed there ability to play with me in ranked seasons. Do not do the same to raids.

I know how unpopular of an opinion this is going to be…
But it’s about time that we get the option to inspect other players with not only gear but also stuff like the kill counter or anything similar. They can limit it to party members only or to those applying to join your LFG for all I care.
There is a need for people to judge other players for certain content in this game. We end up having to go past that anonymity by asking for LI or AP or having others link their gear to you. Really didn’t take the community long to post guides on how to fake LIs to cheat your way into experienced groups for easier kills.
The DPS-meter is another good example. There isn’t any way to judge someone’s performance apart from paying a lot of attention to them during the raid when you are already busy enough. It happens too often that you have someone join who is entirely inexperienced in PvE. You know the stereotype of the Bearbow player, all of us have met them before – “What are you talking about? I do good damage, always kill people in WvW”. The only way to improve as a group in raids is to see your own mistakes and your problems. A lack of damage and ineffective builds are a huge problem.
I for one would love to see different statistics on damage dealt, boons applied, boons removed, healing done, etc. This would also stop people from simply focusing on damage and look at other important factors.

The entire system is designed to protect players from the bad sides of elitism. I like that about the game, don’t get me wrong. However, there is nothing that protects the other part of the community from the players who simply abuse the system, knowingly or not.

Henry.5713:

However, there is nothing that protects the other part of the community from the players who simply abuse the system, knowingly or not.

There is. It’s called “having a steady group”.
If you can’t trust other players, then play only with people that you know.

Henry.5713:

But it’s about time that we get the option to inspect other players with not only gear but also stuff like the kill counter or anything similar.

Eternal title + active tonic buff + showing appropriate mini (all not fakeable) already are enough. You don’t need to inspect the gear. If there is someone inexperienced although he is bringing the proves from above you will recognise him very soon due to his playstyle (2-3 pulls) otherwise you are “inexperienced” as well.
I never had strong issues with pug groups that made these requirements. VG, Gorse, Sloth, Trio, Escort & KC are “first/second try” in almost all attempts.

Vinceman.4572:

Henry.5713:

But it’s about time that we get the option to inspect other players with not only gear but also stuff like the kill counter or anything similar.

Eternal title + active tonic buff + showing appropriate mini (all not fakeable) already are enough. You don’t need to inspect the gear. If there is someone inexperienced although he is bringing the proves from above you will recognise him very soon due to his playstyle (2-3 pulls) otherwise you are "inexperienced"as well.
I never had strong issues with pug groups that made these requirements. VG, Gorse, Sloth, Trio, Escort & KC are “first/second try” in almost all attempts.

That is exactly the point, though. You have to go through some length to have them show you all of those. Just so you can be sure they have killed the bosses at least once and you still won’t know if they are experienced or not unless you go through some trial and error attempts to see who is underperforming.
Of course, you can never be completely sure that someone is going to do great without actually trying for obvious reasons.

I still think this is too much busy work and so ineffective at party organization when compared to a simple pop-up window with your/their application that would show you/them all of the information needed. The need to protect people from elitism and the usual great polishing of GW2 seem to colide here.

Every intelligent pugging raider has the tonic in a slot (shared inventory or bank), starts in the aerodome and can therefore ping it in seconds.
Eternal title is shown inside on the flow, so is the mini.
So, the check is done within seconds to a minute only. People knowing they are getting kicked if they are not fast with pinging because it is annoying for the other players to wait or to ask again although it was written in the lfg.
Someone who has killed a boss once is often able to carry his/her weight. Maybe not perfectly but it’s enough to compete with the rest of the group.

Vinceman.4572:

Someone who has killed a boss once is often able to carry his/her weight. Maybe not perfectly but it’s enough to compete with the rest of the group.

That right there is what people should be measured by, not stupid pings of things! Pretty sure that once the raid starts a persons true colors will show and it will be on them to not get kicked. But at least give people that have killed said Boss a nod now and then?