Guild Wars 2

Since the dungeon patch, the final/semi final dungeon bosses can reward account bound path-specific recipes that can make non-account bound exotic trinkets using dungeon tokens. It has been 1 month since this patch and some products remain rare – Plague and Nightmare Coil valued at around ~20g each. Particularly, some stats that are impossible to obtain out side of the the alternative fractals RNG.

Although it does not cause massive inflation, this presents the possibility of price gouging and gold mining of incomes larger than that of exploits such as Arah farm.

Possible solutions include:
- Increasing the drop rates of these recipes to flood their supply.
- Allow recipes to be sold.
- Allow recipes to be obtained through tokens
- Make the more RNG exclusive trinkets of certain stat compositions obtainable by other means.

Which would reduce the gold mining and associated jealousy/kitten among dungeon runners and make it easier for non-dungeon runners to obtain their desired stat composition.

Edit1: It may sound like I’m making a massive fuss something small… it is but still, it’s something that can be improved and if no-one fussed over it, it wouldn’t come to Anet’s attention.

Edit2: Made OP sound less whiny.

Definitely agree here. Hate the idea that some people earn a lot of money just because RNG was favorable to them and not to others, this concept sucks.
This % of loot must change, or the conditions (lots of tokens ?) because it makes prices absurdly high for nothing.
What makes me laugh is some kind of kitten people selling rings which have the same stats as crafted ones but double the price just because they were lucky.
LOL seriously, given there’s no skin for trinkets, who would be stupid enough to pay twice or three times as much for the same thing ?

Maybe it will be an alternate way to make ascended trinkets in future, who knows. With Anet’s increasing love for RNG I wouldn’t be surprised.

I believe they stated somewhere they where going to change the whole RNG. I am NOT sure about this and have to look up where they stated this.

I think what you’re talking about only concerns ascended rings from FotM, but afaik they said nothing about recipe drops.

I agree that’s really unfair, not only for this rng reason but because only jewelers can make these.

Why aren’t these jewelery items sold by the dungeon vendors like all the armors or alternatively, why can’t we tailor/leatherworker/armorsmith craft dungeon armors like jewelers do with tokens?

Make it fair for everyone.

Wow, really? Because someone found something you didn’t, it’s really unfair? This is just massive entitlement. Go out and grind dungeons if you want it so badly. Do you make forum posts every time a precursor gets sold on the TP because they had the RNG fortune that you didn’t?

TA drops a recipe for a ring, which can be sold for 25g for only 200 tokens. :/

Anet:
Less RNG, more getting rewarded for the time you put in. Thanks.

Static.9841:

Wow, really? Because someone found something you didn’t, it’s really unfair? This is just massive entitlement. Go out and grind dungeons if you want it so badly. Do you make forum posts every time a precursor gets sold on the TP because they had the RNG fortune that you didn’t?

This^^

Static.9841:

Wow, really? Because someone found something you didn’t, it’s really unfair? This is just massive entitlement. Go out and grind dungeons if you want it so badly. Do you make forum posts every time a precursor gets sold on the TP because they had the RNG fortune that you didn’t?

Yes, I do. And I don’t feel the sense of entitlement is unjustified. I’ve grinded my way to BiFrost but since other legendary grinders seemingly all have these OP recipes will get their SECOND legendaries up to FIVE TIMES FASTER than I would. This is much worse than precursor RNG since it affects income at a MASSIVE level. Precursors are a one-off payment that can be easily sneezed off. Winning a precursor is like winning a small lottery but getting one of these recipes is like getting paid 5x more for doing the same amount of work.

I’m still here and willing to grind. I deserve an equal footing but RNG does not provide this. Anyone who doesn’t realise how broken this and think my sense of entitlement is invalid can suck my fat rainbowy charr kitten.

Let me put it like this, rng IS unfair, yet why should recipes be treated differently and everything else stay the same. Precursors arent account bound either, and those are rlly unfair, you get one lucky drop and its 200-400g. With a dropped recipe you at least have to work for it every day to earn the money, you have to do all paths of the dung. The precursor guys just cash in huge chunk of money and move on. The recipe guys would need to do the dung all paths every day for 2 months to get that money!

And as you are saying precursor is a big one-time payment and you have to do NOTHING for it, recipes you have to grind the dung for weeks/months. I had a recipe dropped, but it isnt as awesome as you think I have to grind the dung every day, few times I already passed on the dung cause I was bored of it. Now I got a friend who got Dusk and Lover dropped, now this guy is rlly lucky, he now just needs Karma, and he isnt dependant like me on one dung.

And from a third point of view, think of it this way:
- Yes some make money faster, but that doesnt make YOUR money making any slower
- Those who got recipes have the opportunity to get gold faster
- Those who need specific combination of stats have the opportunity to buy those

Making recipes account bound would harm 2 groups of people and one group wouldnt get any better

SO why ruin game for others just bcs you havent had a recipe dropped yet

I love all the QQ regarding RNG drops in Guild Wars. Like this is something Anet invented… RNG is a key factor of RPGs since the invention of paper RPGs. Deal with it. Go play chess if you don’t like randomness.

That said, account bound recipes to make sellable items that are otherwise non-sellable is bag, I agree. It doesn’t matter if the item is not important or isn’t worth much, but for ascended gear it’s a problem.

Because RNG sucks and things could’ve been implemented in better ways e.g. recipes purchasable for tokens etc that would induce alot less kitten and satisfy the latter of your group. The former two points shouldn’t exist; The fact that you could endlessly grind and never get a recipe is absurd. Grinding for the same amount of time as your lucky peers but getting less rewards for it is daunting and unfun.

Here’s an analogy from my heavy grinder’s point of view right now: No-one minds if a garbage collector wins a lottery, if the garbage collector however randomly gets a massive pay rise, the other garbage collectors can a) stay at the same messed up company and hoping for their chance or b) quit. Sure I already have BiFrost and still having fun but the kitten is strong.

WHY ARE YOU EVEN DEFENDING IT? Anet has to be leashed back to their philosophies to remove the unfun RNG that belongs in F2Ps.

Also you don’t seem to know the DR rules (from personal experience, Rising Dusk has an intensively researched post elsewhere I believe):
- path DR resets after 2 hours, after which you can get maximal rewards on an alt.
- global DR only kicks in if you do more than 4 paths in 2 hours.
Now rethink on how EASY it is to get a precursor from having a recipe. E.g even without an AC recipe and optimal team you can do AC all paths twice in 3 hours for 8-10g. With a recipe you get double that. Not counting what you do in your 1hr dungeon break.

If you want to blame someone, blame the people dumb enough to pay so much money for a piece of jewellery with no better stats than what is currently available, simply because it’s different. Having ownership of a recipe doesn’t equal a goldmine, the goldmine are the suckers who actually pay money for them.

People are just being salty because they don’t have a recipe that makes them the same amount of money. You all realise that if the recipe were so widely available it would cease to have the value it does now, so there would be zero sharing of the wealth here, not to mention why should anyone bother buying crafted Oric jewellery any more when they can all just buy a recipe with dungeon tokens and then craft their own sets, once again devaluing crafting as any means of money making.

All I’m reading is a lot of crying about why should person X have more than me or get more money faster than me? How about when people play the trading post? Shall we nerf that after kicking and screaming? How about when someone dumps so much gold into the mystic forge to find one of the speciality weapons, the recipe gets immediately announced on the website so that guy can’t make any money out of what they put in? Yeah, that all sounds fair to me.

I am not defending rng but with recipe you at least have to invest your time into doing the dungeon every day and its not fun after a while. Precursor drop → sit back and cash in hundreds of golds, i would trade my recipe for a dusk drop any day.

Random chance drops related to the boss that drops them are a good thing. In fact, I wish there was more of that (as long as those items are just different, not objectively more powerful). It makes the game world more immersive and less predictable.

Making those recipes account-bound, however, is not a good thing.

Players should be able to sell the recipes at the trading post, or send them to other players. The market would then decide how much the recipes were worth, and players who thought they are a good investment could simply buy the recipe (selling it later if it dropped for them after they had it).

Qelris.6901:

TA drops a recipe for a ring, which can be sold for 25g for only 200 tokens. :/

25g? <going to farm TA from now on>

Am I the only one who has a vision of the OP stamping their feet, crossing their arms and sticking out their bottom lip?

RNG sucks, more so when group members get stuff and you don’t but its not the end of the world. I just call them a lucky kittener and get on with my day.

Maybe the OP would prefer it if, everytime someone get an exotic from RNG, he/ she got the same item through in the mail? Surely that would make it fairer /sarcasm off

Nashaan.3160:

Maybe the OP would prefer it if, everytime someone get an exotic from RNG, he/ she got the same item through in the mail? Surely that would make it fairer /sarcasm off

Actually it would ;P

Static.9841:

Wow, really? Because someone found something you didn’t, it’s really unfair? This is just massive entitlement. Go out and grind dungeons if you want it so badly. Do you make forum posts every time a precursor gets sold on the TP because they had the RNG fortune that you didn’t?

A hundred times yes.
Do you think it’s fair that somebody earns a lot of money because he was LUCKY to get it after something like, let’s say 2-3 runs (just random number) while one farms 3 paths EVERY day, has one over 50 runs, and still no recipe ?
I’m sorry, but I think it’s both unfair AND kitten …

It’s like that in all RPGs since Dungeons and Dragons. As I said, get over it or play other games.

Ouroboros.5076:

It’s like that in all RPGs since Dungeons and Dragons. As I said, get over it or play other games.

At least we can see through the luck of our dm’s dice. As for ingw2, they said we have a chance, small chance. But we would never know how an exact number. Might be 1/1,000,000 or a billion for all that matters.

To provide a little perspective, one of the major selling points of GW2 is that RNG was going to be minimized. ArenaNet wanted to provide fun over grind, and as a one-time purchase rather than a subscription model, there was little business incentive to force a grind.

Much of the RNG people complain about now was added very recently.

These concepts are so old I can’t believe they exist at all in any modern MMO. WoW made these mistakes and fixed them. RNG does not work!

Static.9841:

snip

1) True, but the fact that the goldmine is present because these recipes exists in their current fashion is dumb.
2) What I am aiming for, devaluing these recipes. The RNG component is so enormous over the cheap to obtain jewellering component that the latter doesn’t even matter. Take your crafting is useless arguements elsewhere.
3) Flipping is ‘fair’ since the only barrier of entry is your own wealth.
4) Mystic toileting for precursors suck and ANet’s trying to amend this with their ‘scavenger hunt’ ideas. I paid a massive sum for my The Legend yet I find this a great idea as this makes their game better overall.

Nashaan.3160:

kitten

As I said I’m actually fine with 1-time massive income drops, as per VS/Froggies/BDS/EEs in Gw1. Thanks for reading my post /sarcasm

Ouroboros.5076:

It’s like that in all RPGs since Dungeons and Dragons. As I said, get over it or play other games

Or having played Gw1, I can keep complaining until they rework the reward systems to be as fair as such.

ATMAvatar.5749:

To provide a little perspective, one of the major selling points of GW2 is that RNG was going to be minimized. ArenaNet wanted to provide fun over grind, and as a one-time purchase rather than a subscription model, there was little business incentive to force a grind.

Much of the RNG people complain about now was added very recently.

As a long-time Gw1 player having been sold to their philosophies and manifestoes, I have the right to tell them their reward systems are becoming derailed to OTHER MMO KITTEN and for them to fix it. I don’t care what other games you’ve played, I want improvements in my GW2 and you RNG lovers can go play w/e gazillion other mmos out there have.

The funny part for me was that after 100+ paths of AC I didn’t even know this recipe existed. It is how the game goes, but honestly I’d rather see the item as a single rare drop. Yeah still random luck, but it wouldn’t be the constant feeling of loss. More like a nice surprise.

zencow.3651:

As a long-time Gw1 player having been sold to their philosophies and manifestoes, I have the right to tell them their reward systems are becoming derailed to OTHER MMO KITTEN and for them to fix it. I don’t care what other games you’ve played, I want improvements in my GW2 and you RNG lovers can go play w/e gazillion other mmos out there have.

But…RNG existed in GW1 also. Rare skins like Voltaic spear and such were random drops from dungeon chests. Ectos are a random loot from enemies in the UW.

So if you weren’t “lucky,” you just had to grind, earn gold, and buy it (which is what I did.)

RNG exists to ensure item rarity. If RNG didn’t exist, then “rare” items would have to be made rare by making them require tremendous amount of effort to get.

zencow.3651:

As I said I’m actually fine with 1-time massive income drops, as per VS/Froggies/BDS/EEs in Gw1.

The difference is these and precursors are mostly cosmetic (tainted by q9/legendary stat value) AND you had/have the alternate choice to grind for them.

Recipes are exclusive gold mines and FotM stuff affects your stats. For the latter, no-one complained about not having a Superior Rune of Vigor as would no-one complains about not having a full set of Divinity Runes. The exclusivity in the RNG and the fact that these are account bound makes them unreasonable.

zencow.3651:

zencow.3651:

As I said I’m actually fine with 1-time massive income drops, as per VS/Froggies/BDS/EEs in Gw1.

The difference is these and precursors are mostly cosmetic (tainted by q9/legendary stat value) AND you had/have the alternate choice to grind for them.

Recipes are exclusive gold mines and FotM stuff affects your stats. For the latter, no-one complained about not having a Superior Rune of Vigor as would no-one complains about not having a full set of Divinity Runes. The exclusivity in the RNG and the fact that these are account bound makes them unreasonable.

You have the same chance as anyone else. What makes this exclusive?

Abolishing the RNG means everything becomes currency-based with fixed currency drops and no item drops.

The fact that you can grind endlessly due to the extremely low chances and never get it and you can’t obtain it otherwise makes it exclusive. It may sound like I am for abolishing RNG totally but no, I am merely pointing out there they are unfun so they can be fixed.

zencow.3651:

The fact that you can grind endlessly due to the extremely low chances and never get it and you can’t obtain it otherwise makes it exclusive. It may sound like I am for abolishing RNG totally but no, I am merely pointing out there they are unfun so they can be fixed.

Endlessly, really? The game released less than 4 months ago. The recipie was not available at release. Has there really been enough research into the drop rate to establish what is a reasonable timeframe for acquisition?

These recipies provide access to a new revenue stream, but it won’t last. Supply will increase and demand will fall. It happens all the time. A shiny new item gets attention but after a month it is no longer anything special. The value is not in having it, but in having it early. I would rather have the capacity to be lucky than relinquish it in the name of being “fair.”

Well, it’s only just 3 months and Anet’s already losing their philosophies.

I’ve done 300 dungeon runs estimated by the broken Hobby Dungeon Explorer title since the dungeon patch that they were introduced in and not gotten an exotic drop let alone a recipe. Side note: I’ve ran probably over 500 paths and not gotten an exotic drop from chest/bosses.

Yes, it’s only for a short-time. However, I didn’t mind people rushing for end-game greens/winning rare minipets since it takes effort/just winning a loterry. But recipes impacts player behaviour in what you want to do in-game as badly as arah farming was. Maybe I and my legendary-owning dedicated grinders (admitedly tiny protion of the community), theres just no point in doing anything else but the most profitable method and this RNG combined with the FotM’s makes the game really unfun for us.

On the flip-side I don’t see how people have to suffer in being price gouged/suffer the RNG/wait until they can afford to complete a STAT SET they want. Not just a cosmetic issue.

If the availability was increased, the value would drop.

As it stands now, these are amon the onyl recipies that have any value asociated with them.

You started off complaining about the revenue stream that people have, insisting that you should have access to it as well. To do this, you would have to increase availability, but that would make the recipie valueless, so what you really want is to hvae the recipie yourself but deprive othrs of it so it retains value.

At the same time, you make the opposite argument, saying you want access to the finished item, but not at market rates. To accomplish this, you propose increasing availablility of the recipie while removing the product from the market. This way nobody can profit from good luck, they are simply roped into learning a tradeskill and purchasing a recipie.

Did I get that right?

It really sounds like you want to be a member of an exclusive club, and we plebians aren’t invited. You make conflicting arguments for your point, you are incessantly tossing around your achievements as if they somehow matter in a game design discussion. You consider 5g “gouging” yet you own a bifrost—I don’t have anywhere near enough resources to own a bifrost but i do not consider 5g to be gouging at all.

Edit: They never abandoned their core philosophies; they made a few mistakes in delivery, but they have not done anything in violation of the manifesto.

Pretty sure OP would settle for a compromise of making these trinkets available for tokens like armor pieces. One of the stat sets from TA, with precision/condition damage/toughness, is almost exclusive to TA, and it seems from this topic that the recipe may craft one of these rings. Special/exclusive/“lucky” drops should be limited to the cosmetic variety.

Unlike the bifrost, these rings would have no statistical replacement and be extremely subject to (short to medium term) market manipulation.

Considering this stat set is one of the best for condition builds, I completely understand the frustration here.

Fractals meets old dungeons anyone?

Fildydarie.1496:

snip

What conflicting arguements? Mine are all aimed at devaluing these trinkets so they can’t be gold mined by changing their binding status/increasing their availability.

1) lucky people don’t suddenly EARN more, noone cares if a garbage collector wins a lottery but if a garbage collector suddenly randomly gets a massive pay rise, the other garbage collectors have a right to flip out.

2) people seeking specific stats on trinkets should be able to obtain it themselves.

I’ve humbly stated how much grinding I’ve done to put you into perspective on how terrible the drop rates are but you obviously completely missed the point. You don’t know me, judge me however you want but it still does not validate this poorly designed aspect of the game.

I dunno what game you’re playing but 5g extra for completing all paths of a dungeon is a massive bonus.

DaveGan.8065:

yay

Thank you for your understanding.

Dempsey.8760:

RNG is lot broken lolz

Rude much? Kindly contribute something useful to the topic and stay civil rather than indirectly insulting me, thanks.
If everyone stayed content with their game/if Anet never seeked to improve, you think there’d be Gw2?

zencow.3651:

Static.9841:

snip

1) True, but the fact that the goldmine is present because these recipes exists in their current fashion is dumb.
2) What I am aiming for, devaluing these recipes. The RNG component is so enormous over the cheap to obtain jewellering component that the latter doesn’t even matter. Take your crafting is useless arguements elsewhere.
3) Flipping is ‘fair’ since the only barrier of entry is your own wealth.
4) Mystic toileting for precursors suck and ANet’s trying to amend this with their ‘scavenger hunt’ ideas. I paid a massive sum for my The Legend yet I find this a great idea as this makes their game better overall.
.

This is just your selfishness because someone has something you don’t. Your problem and everyone elses who are crying about it is because someone is making money from something you are not because they were fortunate to get a drop you didn’t. That is the bottom line.

You don’t want to talk about crafting because you have absolutely no reasonable argument, most likely because – as you say – you want to devalue recipes, tell me how that’s fair on crafters?

Mostly, who made you decide what was fair and what wasn’t? Because you don’t like it that’s not fair and that’s your perception. Your version of fair sounds a lot like entitlement still.

DaveGan.8065:

Unlike the bifrost, these rings would have no statistical replacement and be extremely subject to (short to medium term) market manipulation.

Have you actually seen any of the trinkets in question? they are ALL the same stats as any other exotic trinket of that type (eg carrion stats) with the exception that they have no upgrade installed in them. Tell me more about how there is no statistical replacement….

zencow.3651:

The RNG component is so enormous over the cheap to obtain jewellering component that the latter doesn’t even matter.

Tell me how maxing jewelcrafting is difficult.

Static.9841:

DaveGan.8065:

Unlike the bifrost, these rings would have no statistical replacement and be extremely subject to (short to medium term) market manipulation.

Have you actually seen any of the trinkets in question? they are ALL the same stats as any other exotic trinket of that type (eg carrion stats) with the exception that they have no upgrade installed in them. Tell me more about how there is no statistical replacement….

Please. Have YOU even seen the trinkets in question? The Soldiers/Rapid/Shaman/Traveler stat rings aren’t craftable outside these recipes.

Static.9841:

Have you actually seen any of the trinkets in question? they are ALL the same stats as any other exotic trinket of that type (eg carrion stats) with the exception that they have no upgrade installed in them. Tell me more about how there is no statistical replacement….

Nightmare Coil is selling for 23g with buy orders at 18.5g. Exotic or better Power/Vitality/Toughness rings can only also be obtained in WvW or fractals+RNG.

Plague has zero supply and buy orders at 22 gold. Exotic or better Precision/Toughness/Condition Damage rings are only obtainable though fractals RNG.

So what you’re saying, is that there ARE other replacements then….

Are you seriously saying it’s difficult to get the WvW rings? People are moaning that the items would be better if they were obtained with tokens, here’s an example of where an equivalent is. I still don’t see the problem beyond crying because someone is making money that you are not.

Think of it this way : every time you do the dungeon you get tokens. By the time you have the recipe (if ever) you’ll have so many tokens you’ll be able to craft dozens of rings/amulets and sell them on the TP.

Static.9841:

So what you’re saying, is that there ARE other replacements then….

Are you seriously saying it’s difficult to get the WvW rings? People are moaning that the items would be better if they were obtained with tokens, here’s an example of where an equivalent is. I still don’t see the problem beyond crying because someone is making money that you are not.

Way to cherrypick a single example. I’ve made over 2000 badges, so no, it would not be an issue for me. On the other hand, I have no use for that ring. The other ring, for which there is no supply, on the other hand…

I honestly don’t know why I’m still bothering with you.

RobinotX.1604:

I believe they stated somewhere they where going to change the whole RNG. I am NOT sure about this and have to look up where they stated this.

You was dreaming, trust me.
RNG is what it is, roll your dice, maybe is your day, you find your recipe.

RNG is implemented poorly. You can have a newby lvl 45 who is probably playing the game for only a month get a recipe from AC after one run, while I, who has literally run AC >300 times, have not seen a single recipe drop. Time and skill should be rewarded, not luck.

What I’d want it’s a way to acquire exclusive stat combinations in a FINITE amount of time. Doesn’t matter if it’s 1k tokens, 100g or whatever, since we can buy LEGENDARIES on the TP why can’t we buy trinkets or backpieces with exclusive stat combinations?

today i received both a black lion key(which i haven’t seen drop in probably close to 3 weeks) and a recipe for the claw of the howling king. it’s been close to 70 full runs for me.

zencow.3651:

Static.9841:

Wow, really? Because someone found something you didn’t, it’s really unfair? This is just massive entitlement. Go out and grind dungeons if you want it so badly. Do you make forum posts every time a precursor gets sold on the TP because they had the RNG fortune that you didn’t?

Yes, I do. And I don’t feel the sense of entitlement is unjustified. I’ve grinded my way to BiFrost but since other legendary grinders seemingly all have these OP recipes will get their SECOND legendaries up to FIVE TIMES FASTER than I would. This is much worse than precursor RNG since it affects income at a MASSIVE level. Precursors are a one-off payment that can be easily sneezed off. Winning a precursor is like winning a small lottery but getting one of these recipes is like getting paid 5x more for doing the same amount of work.

I’m still here and willing to grind. I deserve an equal footing but RNG does not provide this. Anyone who doesn’t realise how broken this and think my sense of entitlement is invalid can suck my fat rainbowy charr kitten.

Are you even aware of what you’re saying? First, to actually earn the money someone has to BUY them. Their demand is so ridiculously low compared to precursors it’s not even comparable. Yes, I got a lucky shot and got the CoE recipe. Am I rich? LOL hell no, I make maybe 5 to 7 gold out of a ring…every 3 runs. Is it really that bad? and that’s with buy instant offers because even if you list them, almost nobody wants them. Honestly, I understand the RNG fixing stuff for items you need like ascended on fractals, or even legendaries (though they’re not mandatory), but this..this is thought to be a lucky shot, it’s meant to be a way to earn money. All mmo’s have some of these lucky shot stuff, and honestly it should stay like that.

Ive seen the collossus fang recipe drop twice, but thats it. I like that they are rare , makes one more reason to do these dungeons

They are not rare. They are insanely infinitesimal chance of looting.
I’ve run AC soooo many times, to give you an idea, I could make 4 full armors and 5-6 weapons and still haven’t seen this drop …. and not only for me, but I mean in the WHOLE party.
Do you really think it’s normal ?
I don’t, 100% RNG based just sucks and should not even exist.

I have run AC a lot also, thousand upon thousands of tokens, I still run 3 paths most days. Both the times I seen colossus fang recipe drop were to people who had 400 jewelling on that character. Not sure if that matters