Certified Gameaholic
Raid Modes Suggestion
1 2
Raids should only have one mode, the hardest possible mode available. If you want easier content, dungeons and fractals are still available to play. Raids are not designed to be inclusive, they are designed to push players to get better. You say you’re a casual and a good player, so if you get with a good group you should be able to beat it. You may fail many times, but when you beat it that will be an incredibly satisfying moment—Those moments are what raids are all about; the catharsis from defeating a seemingly insurmountable foe is incredible. You, too, can enjoy these bosses if you’re willing to put forth the effort and join a group to overcome it.
[VZ] Valor Zeal – Stormbluff Isle – Looking for steady, casual-friendly NA raiders!
Raids should only have one mode, the hardest possible mode available. If you want easier content, dungeons and fractals are still available to play. Raids are not designed to be inclusive, they are designed to push players to get better. You say you’re a casual and a good player, so if you get with a good group you should be able to beat it. You may fail many times, but when you beat it that will be an incredibly satisfying moment—Those moments are what raids are all about; the catharsis from defeating a seemingly insurmountable foe is incredible. You, too, can enjoy these bosses if you’re willing to put forth the effort and join a group to overcome it.
This. 100% This. I got my first kill after 7 hours yesterday, with a group I met the day before, on a build I had never played before this week. It was a TON of work, and it required I sync up with 9 other people on TS and take hours to grind it out.
And that single kill moment was the best moment in all of GW2 thus far for me, even better than my legendary Twilight.
Morvik Dragonslayer
FF | Nerf
FF | Nerf
Raids should only have one mode, the hardest possible mode available. If you want easier content, dungeons and fractals are still available to play. Raids are not designed to be inclusive, they are designed to push players to get better. You say you’re a casual and a good player, so if you get with a good group you should be able to beat it. You may fail many times, but when you beat it that will be an incredibly satisfying moment—Those moments are what raids are all about; the catharsis from defeating a seemingly insurmountable foe is incredible. You, too, can enjoy these bosses if you’re willing to put forth the effort and join a group to overcome it.
I do not see the point in the hardest possible. Why can’t there be 2 modes? People can either choose whether they want Hard or Normal. Mordremoth has Normal and Extreme modes, all of GW1 missions had both. This gives all players a fair chance at it. I’m not saying nerf it. Some players may simply not be able to get as good as those who can beat it currently. Having 2 modes does not interfere with those who want to do it the way it is now.
Certified Gameaholic
This is a debate that has been gone over and over and over and over again throughout multiple MMOs.
I think down the line it probably will happen, just like WoW and FFXIV etc etc. But I highly doubt it will happen soon since raid just came out.
The issue that comes with this are that the normal mode spoils the hard mode’s experience. FFXIV’s latest raid for example has a story mode and a hard mode. Once people did story mode, hard mode is just meh since yes there are more mechanics but the gist is there already.
Second thing from what I recall is that the casuals are never really satisfied, people have argued mechanics are new things and having unique and harder mechanics in hard mode raid is unfair blah blah blah and there are a lot of whining.
Actually speaking of whining I think I just realized why I was a bit irritated when I looked at your post. It is day 2, TWO since the raid came out and you already think you will never be able to beat it.
I mean come on, that’s just lame.
(edited by Warscythes.9307)
Raids should only have one mode, the hardest possible mode available. If you want easier content, dungeons and fractals are still available to play. Raids are not designed to be inclusive, they are designed to push players to get better. You say you’re a casual and a good player, so if you get with a good group you should be able to beat it. You may fail many times, but when you beat it that will be an incredibly satisfying moment—Those moments are what raids are all about; the catharsis from defeating a seemingly insurmountable foe is incredible. You, too, can enjoy these bosses if you’re willing to put forth the effort and join a group to overcome it.
This. 100% This. I got my first kill after 7 hours yesterday, with a group I met the day before, on a build I had never played before this week. It was a TON of work, and it required I sync up with 9 other people on TS and take hours to grind it out.
And that single kill moment was the best moment in all of GW2 thus far for me, even better than my legendary Twilight.
Now I don’t know how difficult the raid actually is, I only tried a couple of times. But the difficult gap between fractals and raids is enourmous. If raids are only going to be completable by a very selecs few, then investing in expanding raids will not be very beneficial. I don’t think they should lower the difficult for this reason, this would rightfully upset the hardcore(-ish) raiding community. If the raiding community were to grow too small because of the difficulty, a second difficulty level would be a nice middle ground between fractals and raids (as they are now).
Raids are out for two days. Give it some godkitten time.
I also completely agree with what Rising Dusk said.
This is a debate that has been gone over and over and over and over again throughout multiple MMOs.
I think down the line it probably will happen, just like WoW and FFXIV etc etc. But I highly doubt it will happen soon since raid just came out.
The issue that comes with this are that the normal mode spoils the hard mode’s experience. FFXIV’s latest raid for example has a story mode and a hard mode. Once people did story mode, hard mode is just meh since yes there are more mechanics but the gist is there already.
Second thing from what I recall is that the casuals are never really satisfied, people have argued mechanics are new things and having unique and harder mechanics in hard mode raid is unfair blah blah blah and there are a lot of whining.
Actually speaking of whining I think I just realized why I was a bit irritated when I looked at your post. It is day 2, TWO since the raid came out and you already think you will never be able to beat it.
I mean come on, that’s just lame.
I can understand how it might spoil some things but if people really want it harder, then they can select it. They aren’t forced automatically into something unfair for them. I played raids a lot in beta so for me it’s been longer than 2 days. I do not believe I will beat it because I probably won’t. I am just being realistic. I just would like to see an option. I am not whining to hardcore players or casuals. I just simply think it’s a good idea and makes it more fun for everyone then. That’s all. I think both casual players and hardcores deserve to see all the content.
Certified Gameaholic
I agree with the original poster. I don’t really care about loot, but I do care about experiencing the story and bosses. If there was a story mode available to ensure I could witness these things in character, I would love it in case my guild cannot do these encounters as they are currently balanced. I do like that there is such challenging content for my guild to try, but a back up plan would be great.
The issue that comes with this are that the normal mode spoils the hard mode’s experience. FFXIV’s latest raid for example has a story mode and a hard mode. Once people did story mode, hard mode is just meh since yes there are more mechanics but the gist is there already.
I fail to see the issue here, if it is a choice. If one is required to unlock the other, then that makes sense. The OP is suggesting a choice hard or easy mode. If players think easy mode will ruin their hardmode experience they have the option of not doing it.
Second thing from what I recall is that the casuals are never really satisfied, people have argued mechanics are new things and having unique and harder mechanics in hard mode raid is unfair blah blah blah and there are a lot of whining.
Come off your high horse. This other player identifying as casual (not a bad thing), is telling you what would satisfy them. To tell them they won’t be satisfied after this is a bit much.
(edited by SirMoogie.9263)
Raids should only have one mode, the hardest possible mode available. If you want easier content, dungeons and fractals are still available to play. Raids are not designed to be inclusive, they are designed to push players to get better. You say you’re a casual and a good player, so if you get with a good group you should be able to beat it. You may fail many times, but when you beat it that will be an incredibly satisfying moment—Those moments are what raids are all about; the catharsis from defeating a seemingly insurmountable foe is incredible. You, too, can enjoy these bosses if you’re willing to put forth the effort and join a group to overcome it.
If they stick with this then they need to sell the raids in the gem store and use the money from that to develop the next raid. That way 99% of players aren’t paying for stuff they aren’t going to be able to do.
I would buy them so I could do them with my guild. I even do raids and other hard contentment I just dislike the attitude that raiding seems to bring out in people.
Scaling content and rewards is not a bad idea and helps people see the content that they paid for.
It was 2 vs 20 but its ok we got’em both!
If I wouldn’t be able to succesfully finish a raid, like ever. I would personally really appriciate a doable (mind you, not ez) version of the raid. Even at half the loot it would be perfectly fine by me.
If I wouldn’t be able to succesfully finish a raid, like ever. I would personally really appriciate a doable (mind you, not ez) version of the raid. Even at half the loot it would be perfectly fine by me.
Exactly! Difficult but not so much so that people cannot complete it. Yes more people will be able to do it over time as it currently is. But I’m sure many won’t. I think my suggestion holds valid ground. Doesn’t affect people who like it as is. Just allows casuals to see more content at lower rewards.
Certified Gameaholic
Seeing as probably the majority of people are not going to be able to complete raids or even get beyond the Vale Guardian due to difficulty I’d like to make the suggestion of having 2 different modes for raids.
As it is right now it could be “Hard mode.” And for “Normal mode” the boss has somewhat less health, his attacks do a little less damage, and a timer more like 12 minutes.
Changing the rewards for Normal to be less giving than Hard would be key. For instance the recipes would be exotic instead of ascended and so on.
I’m making this suggestion because I personally probably won’t get to see the enemies you guys have designed beyond the VG and would love to fight them. I’m a good player, but not the best.
This lets both the “casuals” and “hardcore” players experience it more attuned to their level of play.
So what’s to prevent “hardcore” players from farming the Normal mode? Well nothing technically. But they won’t get the better rewards AND those who truly want the challenge still have it.
If you could, please take my suggestion into account Arenanet. I think it would satisfy everyone.
Yes but better rewards matter little when you can farm worse rewards but get MORE of them.
People do something for the challenge once or twice – after that they farm it.
If they went with this Raids would become a farmfest – it would be a PR disaster and the community uproar would be huge.
If here they fall they shall live on when ever you cry “For Ascalon!”
People do something for the challenge once or twice – after that they farm it.
If they went with this Raids would become a farmfest – it would be a PR disaster and the community uproar would be huge.
Human sacrifice! Dogs and cats living together! Mass hysteria would surely ensue… ahem
Then they could not allow that. The biggest draw to raids reward wise is likely the legendary gear. They could just not allow that to be acquired by story mode raiders.
Seeing as probably the majority of people are not going to be able to complete raids or even get beyond the Vale Guardian due to difficulty I’d like to make the suggestion of having 2 different modes for raids.
As it is right now it could be “Hard mode.” And for “Normal mode” the boss has somewhat less health, his attacks do a little less damage, and a timer more like 12 minutes.
Changing the rewards for Normal to be less giving than Hard would be key. For instance the recipes would be exotic instead of ascended and so on.
I’m making this suggestion because I personally probably won’t get to see the enemies you guys have designed beyond the VG and would love to fight them. I’m a good player, but not the best.
This lets both the “casuals” and “hardcore” players experience it more attuned to their level of play.
So what’s to prevent “hardcore” players from farming the Normal mode? Well nothing technically. But they won’t get the better rewards AND those who truly want the challenge still have it.
If you could, please take my suggestion into account Arenanet. I think it would satisfy everyone.
Yes but better rewards matter little when you can farm worse rewards but get MORE of them.
People do something for the challenge once or twice – after that they farm it.
If they went with this Raids would become a farmfest – it would be a PR disaster and the community uproar would be huge.
You only get rewards after completing the bosses. You don’t get a bunch anyhow. If you really wanted lots of gear you could go to SW or something.
Certified Gameaholic
People do something for the challenge once or twice – after that they farm it.
If they went with this Raids would become a farmfest – it would be a PR disaster and the community uproar would be huge.Human sacrifice! Dogs and cats living together! Mass hysteria would surely ensue… ahem
Then they could not allow that. The biggest draw to raids reward wise is likely the legendary gear. They could just not allow that to be acquired by story mode raiders.
That’s fair – but Anet has promised hard content – and that’s what they’ve delivered. They specifically said at one point that they would not include a hard mode/normal mode structure in the game.
I also believe they want to get people out of their comfort zones.
I honestly see no reason for an “easy mode”. And I haven’t even beaten the first boss yet.
I’m there for the rewards – if there’s an easy mode with no legendary armor what’s the point?
I mean – where’s the point of doing a raid if the rewards aren’t special and if it’s as easy as the old dungeons?
If here they fall they shall live on when ever you cry “For Ascalon!”
Well here we go…
The whole splitting raid difficulties debate and if it’s good or not.
IMO it damages the experience of raids. WoW has four different difficulties of raids and finally killing a difficult boss in Mythic feels much less exciting because you’ve already done it three other times by that point. It’s also exhausting. Often times you feel forced to clear multiple raids on multiple characters to maximize your rewards.
I get that people want to see content but raids should have one difficulty and possibly make hard modes through Achievements. Maybe they can make story instances in the future of raids that people can buy with gems that allow you to go through a solo tuned version of the raids to experience the story. I dread the day that raids have four difficulties though.
Seeing as probably the majority of people are not going to be able to complete raids or even get beyond the Vale Guardian due to difficulty I’d like to make the suggestion of having 2 different modes for raids.
As it is right now it could be “Hard mode.” And for “Normal mode” the boss has somewhat less health, his attacks do a little less damage, and a timer more like 12 minutes.
Changing the rewards for Normal to be less giving than Hard would be key. For instance the recipes would be exotic instead of ascended and so on.
I’m making this suggestion because I personally probably won’t get to see the enemies you guys have designed beyond the VG and would love to fight them. I’m a good player, but not the best.
This lets both the “casuals” and “hardcore” players experience it more attuned to their level of play.
So what’s to prevent “hardcore” players from farming the Normal mode? Well nothing technically. But they won’t get the better rewards AND those who truly want the challenge still have it.
If you could, please take my suggestion into account Arenanet. I think it would satisfy everyone.
Yes but better rewards matter little when you can farm worse rewards but get MORE of them.
People do something for the challenge once or twice – after that they farm it.
If they went with this Raids would become a farmfest – it would be a PR disaster and the community uproar would be huge.You only get rewards after completing the bosses. You don’t get a bunch anyhow. If you really wanted lots of gear you could go to SW or something.
Except i’m pointing out what would happen if you could farm “easy mode raids”. Maybe people would farm them for gold.
If here they fall they shall live on when ever you cry “For Ascalon!”
People do something for the challenge once or twice – after that they farm it.
If they went with this Raids would become a farmfest – it would be a PR disaster and the community uproar would be huge.Human sacrifice! Dogs and cats living together! Mass hysteria would surely ensue… ahem
Then they could not allow that. The biggest draw to raids reward wise is likely the legendary gear. They could just not allow that to be acquired by story mode raiders.
That’s fair – but Anet has promised hard content – and that’s what they’ve delivered. They specifically said at one point that they would not include a hard mode/normal mode structure in the game.
I also believe they want to get people out of their comfort zones.
I honestly see no reason for an “easy mode”. And I haven’t even beaten the first boss yet.
I’m there for the rewards – if there’s an easy mode with no legendary armor what’s the point?I mean – where’s the point of doing a raid if the rewards aren’t special and if it’s as easy as the old dungeons?
Not everyone would necessarily care about the rewards, but rather fighting the enemies and exploring the raid areas. What if you never beat the first boss? The reward for casual people is simply doing something they CAN do. How does having 2 or more modes affect the hardcore players? They don’t have to play with the casuals!
Certified Gameaholic
The way I am seeing this happening:
Current Raid Mode would be Normal/Story.
Add in harder Raid Mode.
Would it be what you asked for? Yes, just not what you wanted.
As a side note, go look at the Raid blogs. Mostly at the areas where the Devs said they wanted to see the tears of players. Mission Accomplished.
Teh Ouchies
They specifically said at one point that they would not include a hard mode/normal mode structure in the game.
I believe they were probably referring to something like they had in Guild Wars. Regardless, they also said at one point they wouldn’t have raids, that there would be content releases every two weeks, and there would be no gear tiers beyond exotics. These things all changed due to community feedback.
I mean – where’s the point of doing a raid if the rewards aren’t special and if it’s as easy as the old dungeons?
That you don’t appreciate the story, role playing a character through story steps, or fighting new encounters with different, but less challenging, mechanics doesn’t mean others don’t.
I don’t agree with having an easy mode for lazy players. I use that term instead of casuals. Just because a player is a casual doesn’t mean they are too lazy to understand the game and communicate effectively.
There is a whole subset of players in this game that go throughout every aspect of it getting carried by others. You cannot be carried in this raid. It requires you to gear up, have an optimal build for your part, communicate, teamwork, and understand your class and the mechanics of the fight.
If you cannot do this which is very basic you will never finish this raid. The raid is meant to be difficult as a reward for players who are willing to do the basic things to complete it. Not as a reward for a lazy player to go in and get carried.
“Just press 2 to win all the dps was us cuz we’re a
warrior and we’re the best class” Eugene
warrior and we’re the best class” Eugene
(edited by Warlord.9074)
WoW has four different difficulties of raids and finally killing a difficult boss in Mythic feels much less exciting because you’ve already done it three other times by that point. It’s also exhausting. Often times you feel forced to clear multiple raids on multiple characters to maximize your rewards.
The original poster is not proposing that players have to complete Story mode to do Hard Mode. Any players that spoil themselves in the story mode have themselves to blame.
I don’t agree with having an easy mode for lazy players. I use that term instead of casuals. Just because a player is a casual doesn’t mean they are too lazy to understand the game and communicate effectively.
There is a whole subset of players in this game that go throughout every aspect of it getting carried by others. You cannot be carried in this raid. It requires you to gear up, have an optimal build for your part, communicate, teamwork, and understand your class and the mechanics of the fight.
If you cannot do this which is very basic you will never finish this raid.
You don’t have to carry those in the easier mode. You don’t even have to do it. You get the option of something harder. I do not see how this affects the hardcore players at all. They get what they want in hard mode. Normal mode doesn’t affect them 1 bit.
Certified Gameaholic
I don’t agree with having an easy mode for lazy players. I use that term instead of casuals. Just because a player is a casual doesn’t mean they are too lazy to understand the game and communicate effectively.
There is a whole subset of players in this game that go throughout every aspect of it getting carried by others. You cannot be carried in this raid. It requires you to gear up, have an optimal build for your part, communicate, teamwork, and understand your class and the mechanics of the fight.
If you cannot do this which is very basic you will never finish this raid.
You don’t have to carry those in the easier mode. You don’t even have to do it. You get the option of something harder. I do not see how this affects the hardcore players at all. They get what they want in hard mode. Normal mode doesn’t affect them 1 bit.
How about no easy mode and we just dont let players get something for free for once in this game.
“Just press 2 to win all the dps was us cuz we’re a
warrior and we’re the best class” Eugene
warrior and we’re the best class” Eugene
I don’t agree with having an easy mode for lazy players. I use that term instead of casuals. Just because a player is a casual doesn’t mean they are too lazy to understand the game and communicate effectively.
There is a whole subset of players in this game that go throughout every aspect of it getting carried by others. You cannot be carried in this raid. It requires you to gear up, have an optimal build for your part, communicate, teamwork, and understand your class and the mechanics of the fight.
If you cannot do this which is very basic you will never finish this raid.
You don’t have to carry those in the easier mode. You don’t even have to do it. You get the option of something harder. I do not see how this affects the hardcore players at all. They get what they want in hard mode. Normal mode doesn’t affect them 1 bit.
How about no easy mode and we just dont let players get something for free for once in this game.
Why are you so adamant on not letting those with less skill a chance at enjoying raids as well? How does an easier mode affect YOU? It doesn’t!
Certified Gameaholic
I don’t agree with having an easy mode for lazy players. I use that term instead of casuals. Just because a player is a casual doesn’t mean they are too lazy to understand the game and communicate effectively.
There is a whole subset of players in this game that go throughout every aspect of it getting carried by others. You cannot be carried in this raid. It requires you to gear up, have an optimal build for your part, communicate, teamwork, and understand your class and the mechanics of the fight.
If you cannot do this which is very basic you will never finish this raid.
You don’t have to carry those in the easier mode. You don’t even have to do it. You get the option of something harder. I do not see how this affects the hardcore players at all. They get what they want in hard mode. Normal mode doesn’t affect them 1 bit.
How about no easy mode and we just dont let players get something for free for once in this game.
Why are you so adamant on not letting those with less skill a chance at enjoying raids as well? How does an easier mode affect YOU? It doesn’t!
Becasue the raid has nothing to do with skill. Everything to do with team work and mechanics.
“Just press 2 to win all the dps was us cuz we’re a
warrior and we’re the best class” Eugene
warrior and we’re the best class” Eugene
I don’t agree with having an easy mode for lazy players. I use that term instead of casuals. Just because a player is a casual doesn’t mean they are too lazy to understand the game and communicate effectively.
There is a whole subset of players in this game that go throughout every aspect of it getting carried by others. You cannot be carried in this raid. It requires you to gear up, have an optimal build for your part, communicate, teamwork, and understand your class and the mechanics of the fight.
If you cannot do this which is very basic you will never finish this raid.
You don’t have to carry those in the easier mode. You don’t even have to do it. You get the option of something harder. I do not see how this affects the hardcore players at all. They get what they want in hard mode. Normal mode doesn’t affect them 1 bit.
How about no easy mode and we just dont let players get something for free for once in this game.
Why are you so adamant on not letting those with less skill a chance at enjoying raids as well? How does an easier mode affect YOU? It doesn’t!
Becasue the raid has nothing to do with skill. Everything to do with team work and mechanics.
You still would have that in a normal mode. It just wouldn’t be so difficult. I don’t mind having it hard. But lots of others don’t want it so hard. So why not make another mode? I’d personally play both. It appeals to the casuals, while the hard appeals to the harder-core players. One does not affect the other. It just gives diversity and opens up the playing field for everyone.
Certified Gameaholic
I don’t agree with having an easy mode for lazy players. I use that term instead of casuals. Just because a player is a casual doesn’t mean they are too lazy to understand the game and communicate effectively.
There is a whole subset of players in this game that go throughout every aspect of it getting carried by others. You cannot be carried in this raid. It requires you to gear up, have an optimal build for your part, communicate, teamwork, and understand your class and the mechanics of the fight.
If you cannot do this which is very basic you will never finish this raid.
You don’t have to carry those in the easier mode. You don’t even have to do it. You get the option of something harder. I do not see how this affects the hardcore players at all. They get what they want in hard mode. Normal mode doesn’t affect them 1 bit.
How about no easy mode and we just dont let players get something for free for once in this game.
Why are you so adamant on not letting those with less skill a chance at enjoying raids as well? How does an easier mode affect YOU? It doesn’t!
Becasue the raid has nothing to do with skill. Everything to do with team work and mechanics.
You still would have that in a normal mode. It just wouldn’t be so difficult. I don’t mind having it hard. But lots of others don’t want it so hard. So why not make another mode? I’d personally play both. It appeals to the casuals, while the hard appeals to the harder-core players. One does not affect the other. It just gives diversity and opens up the playing field for everyone.
Becasue everything in this game is already geared towards casuals. What else do you want. Hardcore players have nothing. Also rumor has it the beta raid was harder.
“Just press 2 to win all the dps was us cuz we’re a
warrior and we’re the best class” Eugene
warrior and we’re the best class” Eugene
Becasue everything in this game is already geared towards casuals. What else do you want. Hardcore players have nothing.
You’re just willfully ignoring the points put forward to you at this point. We’ve retread this ground up thread.
I don’t agree with having an easy mode for lazy players. I use that term instead of casuals. Just because a player is a casual doesn’t mean they are too lazy to understand the game and communicate effectively.
There is a whole subset of players in this game that go throughout every aspect of it getting carried by others. You cannot be carried in this raid. It requires you to gear up, have an optimal build for your part, communicate, teamwork, and understand your class and the mechanics of the fight.
If you cannot do this which is very basic you will never finish this raid.
You don’t have to carry those in the easier mode. You don’t even have to do it. You get the option of something harder. I do not see how this affects the hardcore players at all. They get what they want in hard mode. Normal mode doesn’t affect them 1 bit.
How about no easy mode and we just dont let players get something for free for once in this game.
Why are you so adamant on not letting those with less skill a chance at enjoying raids as well? How does an easier mode affect YOU? It doesn’t!
Becasue the raid has nothing to do with skill. Everything to do with team work and mechanics.
You still would have that in a normal mode. It just wouldn’t be so difficult. I don’t mind having it hard. But lots of others don’t want it so hard. So why not make another mode? I’d personally play both. It appeals to the casuals, while the hard appeals to the harder-core players. One does not affect the other. It just gives diversity and opens up the playing field for everyone.
Becasue everything in this game is already geared towards casuals. What else do you want. Hardcore players have nothing.
They have raids as is! What’s the harm in making a mode for the casual people? If I want to do hard, then I can. If I don’t then I have something else. Why is it such a big deal to you that others cannot enjoy the raid as well? You WANT to be super elitist about it?
Certified Gameaholic
I don’t agree with having an easy mode for lazy players. I use that term instead of casuals. Just because a player is a casual doesn’t mean they are too lazy to understand the game and communicate effectively.
There is a whole subset of players in this game that go throughout every aspect of it getting carried by others. You cannot be carried in this raid. It requires you to gear up, have an optimal build for your part, communicate, teamwork, and understand your class and the mechanics of the fight.
If you cannot do this which is very basic you will never finish this raid.
You don’t have to carry those in the easier mode. You don’t even have to do it. You get the option of something harder. I do not see how this affects the hardcore players at all. They get what they want in hard mode. Normal mode doesn’t affect them 1 bit.
How about no easy mode and we just dont let players get something for free for once in this game.
Why are you so adamant on not letting those with less skill a chance at enjoying raids as well? How does an easier mode affect YOU? It doesn’t!
Becasue the raid has nothing to do with skill. Everything to do with team work and mechanics.
You still would have that in a normal mode. It just wouldn’t be so difficult. I don’t mind having it hard. But lots of others don’t want it so hard. So why not make another mode? I’d personally play both. It appeals to the casuals, while the hard appeals to the harder-core players. One does not affect the other. It just gives diversity and opens up the playing field for everyone.
Becasue everything in this game is already geared towards casuals. What else do you want. Hardcore players have nothing.
They have raids as is! What’s the harm in making a mode for the casual people? If I want to do hard, then I can. If I don’t then I have something else. Why is it such a big deal to you that others cannot enjoy the raid as well? You WANT to be super elitist about it?
Because ANET decided not to. Also rumor has it the beta raid was harder.
“Just press 2 to win all the dps was us cuz we’re a
warrior and we’re the best class” Eugene
warrior and we’re the best class” Eugene
I don’t agree with having an easy mode for lazy players. I use that term instead of casuals. Just because a player is a casual doesn’t mean they are too lazy to understand the game and communicate effectively.
There is a whole subset of players in this game that go throughout every aspect of it getting carried by others. You cannot be carried in this raid. It requires you to gear up, have an optimal build for your part, communicate, teamwork, and understand your class and the mechanics of the fight.
If you cannot do this which is very basic you will never finish this raid.
You don’t have to carry those in the easier mode. You don’t even have to do it. You get the option of something harder. I do not see how this affects the hardcore players at all. They get what they want in hard mode. Normal mode doesn’t affect them 1 bit.
How about no easy mode and we just dont let players get something for free for once in this game.
Why are you so adamant on not letting those with less skill a chance at enjoying raids as well? How does an easier mode affect YOU? It doesn’t!
Because Raids are seen as a badge of honor – they’re seen as a delimitation of player skill.
Having done a Raid while another player hasn’t is basically saying “I’m better than you” and people enjoy that.
There’s a certain understandable fear with the devs that adding an easier mode would somehow invalidate that feeling. That somehow having an easy mode to raids means people won’t feel as happy having done the hard mode.
It might not be ideal – but it is what it is. I realize they went with this All-or-nothing strategy where you can either do raids and experience everything or can’t do raids and experience nothing for a reason – and I believe it is the reason I’ve stated above.
If here they fall they shall live on when ever you cry “For Ascalon!”
Because ANET decided not to. Also rumor has it the beta raid was harder.
So your reason for wanting to not have this mode is because Arena Net decided not to. Great. So you’d be for it they decided to add it. Great. So you really have no reasonable objections, you just like what Arena Net decides to do it seems.
I don’t agree with having an easy mode for lazy players. I use that term instead of casuals. Just because a player is a casual doesn’t mean they are too lazy to understand the game and communicate effectively.
There is a whole subset of players in this game that go throughout every aspect of it getting carried by others. You cannot be carried in this raid. It requires you to gear up, have an optimal build for your part, communicate, teamwork, and understand your class and the mechanics of the fight.
If you cannot do this which is very basic you will never finish this raid.
You don’t have to carry those in the easier mode. You don’t even have to do it. You get the option of something harder. I do not see how this affects the hardcore players at all. They get what they want in hard mode. Normal mode doesn’t affect them 1 bit.
How about no easy mode and we just dont let players get something for free for once in this game.
Why are you so adamant on not letting those with less skill a chance at enjoying raids as well? How does an easier mode affect YOU? It doesn’t!
Because Raids are seen as a badge of honor – they’re seen as a delimitation of player skill.
Having done a Raid while another player hasn’t is basically saying “I’m better than you” and people enjoy that.
There’s a certain understandable fear with the devs that adding an easier mode would somehow invalidate that feeling. That somehow having an easy mode to raids means people won’t feel as happy having done the hard mode.
It might not be ideal – but it is what it is. I realize they went with this All-or-nothing strategy where you can either do raids and experience everything or can’t do raids and experience nothing for a reason – and I believe it is the reason I’ve stated above.
They can still get that. “I did hard mode and you can’t” Would be a thing. And the casual people would still feel good about completing the easier version. Am I wrong?
Certified Gameaholic
Becasue everything in this game is already geared towards casuals. What else do you want. Hardcore players have nothing.
You’re just willfully ignoring the points put forward to you at this point. We’ve retread this ground up thread.
Warlord’s attitude is indicative of exactly what I’ve explained above. The hardcore crowd has for too long felt left out and now feel they should have something that is theirs – that they can experience and nobody else can – something to wear with pride – and there’s nothing wrong with that.
People want exclusivity, they want uniqueness – and I can see why in a game like GW2 the hardcore have felt more than left out.
I see your points as well – but as I’ve explained above – this content is designed to not be “all inclusive” specifically so the hardcore players can feel good about it and feel they’re finally being “catered to”.
As a side note – Anet might also attempt to increase the player base skill level by forcing them to raid and get good. A lot of ridicule GW2’s been getting when it comes to PR is from people experiencing core open world where everything is faceroll easy.
If they can successfully force players to get better they can release harder content and possibly improve the game’s “hello kitty MMO” reputation.
If here they fall they shall live on when ever you cry “For Ascalon!”
“Crystal Reid has a message for would-be raiding champions: “We started a bucket collection for your tears.”
That is a direct quote from
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/countdown-to-launch-raids/
This is as easy as its probably going to get.
Teh Ouchies
Because ANET decided not to. Also rumor has it the beta raid was harder.
So your reason for wanting to not have this mode is because Arena Net decided not to. Great. So you’d be for it they decided to add it. Great. So you really have no reasonable objections, you just like what Arena Net decides to do it seems.
Your conclusion is based on not reading my other posts so I am saying it now, you have no consideration at all for the rest of the community opinions that dont agree with you since you don’t read them or understand them. You only care about your own opinon and think that you will come on the forum and complain and beg ANET to change something that they don’t and the rest of us dont want.
“Just press 2 to win all the dps was us cuz we’re a
warrior and we’re the best class” Eugene
warrior and we’re the best class” Eugene
Ok. Let me clarify things. I was REALLY hoping that people would be open to hear me out but this is turning into a casual vs. hardcore fight. Which it’s not supposed to be. Personally I think it’s a good idea to expand things to everyone.
This is the vibe I’m currently getting. Hardcore players think I’m just some filthy casual who is whining to make it easier. This is not the case. I WANT how it is to stay how it is. And simply think it should be categorized to hard.
I am not against hardcore players. In fact, if a hardcore player said “I want it harder” I would make the suggestion of an even harder mode. Possibly “Extreme”.
What I do not understand is why I am getting flak for suggesting an easier mode.
Certified Gameaholic
I don’t agree with having an easy mode for lazy players. I use that term instead of casuals. Just because a player is a casual doesn’t mean they are too lazy to understand the game and communicate effectively.
There is a whole subset of players in this game that go throughout every aspect of it getting carried by others. You cannot be carried in this raid. It requires you to gear up, have an optimal build for your part, communicate, teamwork, and understand your class and the mechanics of the fight.
If you cannot do this which is very basic you will never finish this raid.
You don’t have to carry those in the easier mode. You don’t even have to do it. You get the option of something harder. I do not see how this affects the hardcore players at all. They get what they want in hard mode. Normal mode doesn’t affect them 1 bit.
How about no easy mode and we just dont let players get something for free for once in this game.
Why are you so adamant on not letting those with less skill a chance at enjoying raids as well? How does an easier mode affect YOU? It doesn’t!
Because Raids are seen as a badge of honor – they’re seen as a delimitation of player skill.
Having done a Raid while another player hasn’t is basically saying “I’m better than you” and people enjoy that.
There’s a certain understandable fear with the devs that adding an easier mode would somehow invalidate that feeling. That somehow having an easy mode to raids means people won’t feel as happy having done the hard mode.
It might not be ideal – but it is what it is. I realize they went with this All-or-nothing strategy where you can either do raids and experience everything or can’t do raids and experience nothing for a reason – and I believe it is the reason I’ve stated above.
They can still get that. “I did hard mode and you can’t” Would be a thing. And the casual people would still feel good about completing the easier version. Am I wrong?
Yes because the delimitation is a lot less clear.
It’s not as clear as: I did it and you did not.
It’s more like: I did it under these circumstances and you didn’t do it under these circumstances but did it under different ones.
If what you’re saying would be true then the truly hardcore would have been satisfied with running dungeons ( content everyone can complete) in “hard mode” – doing solos, duos, trios or naked runs. For a small part of the hardcore crowd this was enough – but for most it isn’t.
Look at the example:
“I did AC with no gear on”
“So what – I did AC too”
Compare it to this:
“I did the Raid”
“….” – because this person didn’t do the raid.
This more definitive – it’s clear, it’s cut and dry – there are no ifs and buts. You did it or you didn’t. And this is what they’re going for with Raids atm.
If here they fall they shall live on when ever you cry “For Ascalon!”
Ok. Let me clarify things. I was REALLY hoping that people would be open to hear me out but this is turning into a casual vs. hardcore fight. Which it’s not supposed to be. Personally I think it’s a good idea to expand things to everyone.
This is the vibe I’m currently getting. Hardcore players think I’m just some filthy casual who is whining to make it easier. This is not the case. I WANT how it is to stay how it is. And simply think it should be categorized to hard.
I am not against hardcore players. In fact, if a hardcore player said “I want it harder” I would make the suggestion of an even harder mode. Possibly “Extreme”.
What I do not understand is why I am getting flak for suggesting an easier mode.
I am not fighting you – in fact I don’t disagree with you – but I see the reason why they’re doing things they way they are and the value in that.
You want to simply add more value for more players through inclusion.
Anet wants to cater to hardcore players now through exclusion – because this exclusion adds value to their experience with the game.
I’m not giving you flak ( maybe others are) but explaining why people are opposed to it.
If here they fall they shall live on when ever you cry “For Ascalon!”
I don’t agree with having an easy mode for lazy players. I use that term instead of casuals. Just because a player is a casual doesn’t mean they are too lazy to understand the game and communicate effectively.
There is a whole subset of players in this game that go throughout every aspect of it getting carried by others. You cannot be carried in this raid. It requires you to gear up, have an optimal build for your part, communicate, teamwork, and understand your class and the mechanics of the fight.
If you cannot do this which is very basic you will never finish this raid.
You don’t have to carry those in the easier mode. You don’t even have to do it. You get the option of something harder. I do not see how this affects the hardcore players at all. They get what they want in hard mode. Normal mode doesn’t affect them 1 bit.
How about no easy mode and we just dont let players get something for free for once in this game.
Why are you so adamant on not letting those with less skill a chance at enjoying raids as well? How does an easier mode affect YOU? It doesn’t!
Because Raids are seen as a badge of honor – they’re seen as a delimitation of player skill.
Having done a Raid while another player hasn’t is basically saying “I’m better than you” and people enjoy that.
There’s a certain understandable fear with the devs that adding an easier mode would somehow invalidate that feeling. That somehow having an easy mode to raids means people won’t feel as happy having done the hard mode.
It might not be ideal – but it is what it is. I realize they went with this All-or-nothing strategy where you can either do raids and experience everything or can’t do raids and experience nothing for a reason – and I believe it is the reason I’ve stated above.
They can still get that. “I did hard mode and you can’t” Would be a thing. And the casual people would still feel good about completing the easier version. Am I wrong?
Yes because the delimitation is a lot less clear.
It’s not as clear as: I did it and you did not.
It’s more like: I did it under these circumstances and you didn’t do it under these circumstances but did it under different ones.If what you’re saying would be true then the truly hardcore would have been satisfied with running dungeons ( content everyone can complete) in “hard mode” – doing solos, duos, trios or naked runs. For a small part of the hardcore crowd this was enough – but for most it isn’t.
Look at the example:
“I did AC with no gear on”
“So what – I did AC too”Compare it to this:
“I did the Raid”
“….” – because this person didn’t do the raid.This more definitive – it’s clear, it’s cut and dry – there are no ifs and buts. You did it or you didn’t. And this is what they’re going for with Raids atm.
This is true. It is as not clear cut and dry. But why shouldn’t casuals also feel an accomplishment? Are they simply not allowed to finish it at their skill level?
Looking at it from a different point of view also as I’ve said before. The rewards. Hard people get better rewards. Maybe exclusive titles. Sure there will always be a gap between casual vs. hardcore. I just want everyone to enjoy it. That is all. I don’t think my suggestion is so unreasonable. I’m not out to attack hardcores or casuals.
I’m not referring the flak to you.
Certified Gameaholic
ANET will take a look at the player metrics for raid participation every week as they do with other parts of the game, as weeks turn into months they will come to the same conclusion every successful mmo developer has.
Difficulty options for raids are inevitable.
The thing raid fans like us need to be concerned with is what will happen to raids 6 months to a year from now. I’m hoping they won’t be left to languish like WvW or straight off killed like dungeons and SAB. Time will tell.
Magumer Ranger
Raids are self-inflicted torture, open world HoT has so much to do I haven’t even done half of it after however many weeks. It’s not like casuals have nothing to do. And I don’t consider myself a casual.
Raids have been pretty consistently advertised as hardcore PvE. If anet backs down at this point, what hop is there for the future? Open world has WAAAAAAY more to do than raids.
I can weigh in on a very similar example that was already touched on in this thread.
In FFXIV: Heavensward, the new expansion, the game devs heard player feedback about almost exactly what ppl including OP are talking about in terms of wanting to experience raids (The story, the area, the feel, etc) despite not having the commitment or skill to actually do the raid.
Enter Alexander Normal, and eventually Alex Savage.
Shortly after the release of the Heavensward expansion Alex normal mode came out, and was a significantly easier raid than previous ones in the game. The reason for this was to facilitate ppl wanting to experience the story but couldn’t due to difficulty. The hardest of the hardcore weren’t to be ignored either however because sometime after (I think ~1month?) Alex Savage mode released which was more comparable to the old hardcore raids. Essentially the same raid, differing rewards.
This is where the problems start.
Alex normal came out long before Alex savage, and was essentially the endest endgame for everyone. This caused both hardcore, and I guess ‘midcore’ players to farm the kitten out of that, to the point when savage did come out, people were so burnout of the same raid that interest even with the higher difficulty, was low.
What went wrong?
They we’rent released at the same time. Like I previously stated. Others in this thread have pointed out that a farmable normal mode cheapens the hard one because
1) farming might end up being more efficient on the normal one (defeating the purpose of hard passed the initial challenge) and
2)people will get burnt out doing the normal mode if it isn’t just as accessible as normal mode at release.
Wut do?
I kind of agree with OP. Kind of. I see the purpose of the normal mode, but I think it’s purpose should be made very clear. Normal mode is Story mode not alternate easy version mode. And as a result the rewards should be heavily nerfed compared to the hard version, in terms of quantity of loot, in having objectively lesser quality rewards. They should be way to experience a raid when you lack the ability NOT a substitute.
This is true. It is as not clear cut and dry. But why shouldn’t casuals also feel an accomplishment? Are they simply not allowed to finish it at their skill level?
Looking at it from a different point of view also as I’ve said before. The rewards. Hard people get better rewards. Maybe exclusive titles. Sure there will always be a gap between casual vs. hardcore. I just want everyone to enjoy it. That is all. I don’t think my suggestion is so unreasonable. I’m not out to attack hardcores or casuals.
I’m not referring the flak to you.
The short and simple and honest answer to your question is this:
Because their accomplishment ruins the feelings of accomplishment and “awesomeness” of the hardcore crowd – the ones Anet has chosen to cater to with their most recent release.
Yes – I believe that they’re simply not allowed to touch Raids unless they become better or the content becomes easy enough they can buy spots on teams.
It’s the sort of “if everyone could get it then nobody wants it” issue- if everyone could enjoy this content then the hardcore would probably not enjoy themselves as much.
The appeal of hard content is not only that it’s challenging but also by nature exclusive – some can and some can’t do it.
I’m pretty sure most hardcore players feel they want something only they can experience and enjoy because they’re upset ( and rightfully so) with how the game was catering mostly to casuals up until this point.
If here they fall they shall live on when ever you cry “For Ascalon!”
The OP does bring a valid point I’m afraid. I think we all know that raids will be toned down eventually; it’s not a matter of “if”, it’s a matter of “when”. Why? Casuals; they make up the bulk of any given game and it’s a game developer’s priority to satisfy the majority of players, not the minority.
With the OP’s suggestion they could potentially satisfy everybody; the core of dedicated players gets to have very hard content while the casuals can enjoy a harder-than-normal content. I’m perfectly fine with very hard content having tailored, exclusive rewards like legendary armor for example.
I have to agree that this is a very good suggestion. It’s better than it’s alternative: raids being toned down to dungeon level in 2-3 months because hardly anyone plays them anymore… because at the end of the day, GW2 is a game and is meant to have fun. What is that fun for you is up to you but it doesn’t take long of sitting idle in Verdant Brink to realize most people are not having fun.
Raids are self-inflicted torture, open world HoT has so much to do I haven’t even done half of it after however many weeks. It’s not like casuals have nothing to do. And I don’t consider myself a casual.
Raids have been pretty consistently advertised as hardcore PvE. If anet backs down at this point, what hop is there for the future? Open world has WAAAAAAY more to do than raids.
There’s not so much to be honest, but what there is of it you’ll need to do many many times.
Magumer Ranger
I can weigh in on a very similar example that was already touched on in this thread.
In FFXIV: Heavensward, the new expansion, the game devs heard player feedback about almost exactly what ppl including OP are talking about in terms of wanting to experience raids (The story, the area, the feel, etc) despite not having the commitment or skill to actually do the raid.
Enter Alexander Normal, and eventually Alex Savage.
Shortly after the release of the Heavensward expansion Alex normal mode came out, and was a significantly easier raid than previous ones in the game. The reason for this was to facilitate ppl wanting to experience the story but couldn’t due to difficulty. The hardest of the hardcore weren’t to be ignored either however because sometime after (I think ~1month?) Alex Savage mode released which was more comparable to the old hardcore raids. Essentially the same raid, differing rewards.
This is where the problems start.
Alex normal came out long before Alex savage, and was essentially the endest endgame for everyone. This caused both hardcore, and I guess ‘midcore’ players to farm the kitten out of that, to the point when savage did come out, people were so burnout of the same raid that interest even with the higher difficulty, was low.
What went wrong?
They we’rent released at the same time. Like I previously stated. Others in this thread have pointed out that a farmable normal mode cheapens the hard one because
1) farming might end up being more efficient on the normal one (defeating the purpose of hard passed the initial challenge) and
2)people will get burnt out doing the normal mode if it isn’t just as accessible as normal mode at release.Wut do?
I kind of agree with OP. Kind of. I see the purpose of the normal mode, but I think it’s purpose should be made very clear. Normal mode is Story mode not alternate easy version mode. And as a result the rewards should be heavily nerfed compared to the hard version, in terms of quantity of loot, in having objectively lesser quality rewards. They should be way to experience a raid when you lack the ability NOT a substitute.
An easier story mode sounds completely reasonable to me. You get so little loot as is, I don’t even see how it could be farmable anyhow. And items could be accountbound or non salvageable or whatever anyhow.
Certified Gameaholic
There’s not so much to be honest, but what there is of it you’ll need to do many many times.
I haven’t even tried many of the adventures. I don’t have half the more difficult mastery points. I have map completion on 1 character on 2 maps. I’ve only done one new JP. I’m a ranger main and don’t even have the electric wyvern.
There is a lot to do.
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