Guild Wars 2

Something about the Raid that came up in conversation is that, while it’s great to have more challenging content (I totally agree /facerolling isn’t a whole lot of fun), It will inevitably lead to people being forced into cookie cutter builds because joe shmo on some forum or Youtube says it’s the best. It has already happenned, actually… Some raids specifically ask for professions of a particular spec with toughness under x. The reason is because the people running the raids or inviting for them have no vision… they just want to easiest path between points A and B, which leaves little room for fun.

Something else I liked about this game is that I could play however I wanted. Sure, my bow may be a marginal decrease in DPS from a sword, but it has more utility and suits my play style a lot better, which makes me a happier and better player than I would be if forced to play a way I’m not comfortable with.

What do you guys think?

What I see in the future of this game now that they’re adding raids and dedicated tanks and healers is an endless balancing nightmare. How many times has the druid been “fixed” since HoT? We all already know the audience for whom HoT was created….. But the backlash of the changes they made will cause them years and years of balancing ability sets between professions and PVE and PVP, which will inevitably lead to class homogenization. They’ll want to make sure people of all professions are equally useful and needed n raid groups, which kitten -near guarantees I’m right.

I see a few fun, smart players in a sea mindless drones depositing mats and gold into the repositories of big guilds.

It’s just another reason they’re no longer different in the important ways from any other run-of-the-mill, bottom-line-oriented MMO.

Time will tell!

There’s always going to be a community made “optimal” set up for everything in the game. Especially with random pick up groups. And it’s not a bad thing either as it stops someone running say a thief with pistols in clerics armor from bringing a group down. The same has been true for dungeons since launch and, to a much lesser extent, Fractals.

At the end of the day, if you don’t like what a group in map chat or the LFG tool is asking for, don’t join it and/or make your own group.

This will happen with any “hard core” or “difficult” content, whether the difficulty is built in (raids) or imposed by players (speed runs).

Apparently, ANet thinks people like this. Time will tell, I guess.

That has always been the norm for MMOs. If people want to min/max, they’ll find a way. Be it best equipment and/or best rotation(s). That’s of course fine itself. You enjoy speedrunning or getting world/server first, have fun with it. In random groups however, you are expected to also act the same way. Otherwise you are “egoistic”, “bad” or whatever. Stuff like Weapon combi x being your prefered or most comfortable style but not uber stopped being important. “For that you have Open World PvE where everything works.” And here with randoms the usual clash happens. What may be fun for you, turns ultimately into an “anti-social” behavior while randomgrouping. Obviously a certain degree of fitting stats + skills should be doable for anyone.

@ Mahou: I know it’s the norm and I feel extremely lucky to have played GW2 for the 3 1/2 years it was not the norm. To me, these and other changes make it just another MMO and that makes me sad

@Mel: Optimal is usually not the most fun. At least not in my experience in any game. It’s sometimes only optimal because it’s the easiest, too.

@ Palador: It will happen even in fake-difficulty content, too… people just overreact instead of think about things.

But it was always the norm in dungeons and then in fractals.

Wahaha.7938:

But it was always the norm in dungeons and then in fractals.

I must have gotten lucky – never once had anyone question my spec or ability. Though I do tend to run in a tight circle…

Dejavu.2349:

@ Palador: It will happen even in fake-difficulty content, too… people just overreact instead of think about things.

Oh yes, absolutely! I even saw it sometimes in CoH, and that was a far better casual game than GW2 is. It’s human nature, I’m afraid.

But, raids do make it a bit worse, because now it’s the game itself pushing towards it. When many builds won’t cut it on a raid, raiders kind of have to move to the builds that do.

Raid difficulty doesn’t cause cookie cutter specs. In fact it does the opposite. It encourages people to try new things to overcome obstacles.

What encourages cookie cutter specs is the stupidly high price on ascended gear. People don’t want to invest in a potentially bad spec so it’s safer to just do what they’ve known to be good.

How is this any different from what has been happening in the game since launch?

Um, what is Zerk meta Alex?

I guess it just never affected ME before. I tend to not notice when something affects other people as much as I do when it affects me… That’s pretty much because I’m human and that’s just how humans are.

Wait folks.

Raid sistem are terrible for now.

BUT! It’s not about difficuly! (tactic looks preaty easy). It’s all about terrible mechanics:

1) LFG sistem – it’s just pain. No, even more – it’s pain from stone age. Especially with such a multi-functional build-sistem like in GW2. Screaming all option in a map chat?!!? They just bullied!
2) First Annet says – “We havnt tank\healer\dd sistem!!”. Now, looks like they changes mind. And it works bad (or better say – doesnt works) because basic mechanics still same.
3) Crafting\gathering new gear ONLY for raids – it’s not very nice. And even more… for exampl today we need one more condition dd in a raid – tomorrow we need tank or zerker… so i must keep all this different gear-set in my bag? Weapons\armor\trinkets i havnt so much space…
4) Many profession will be cut from raids. It’s all about bad balance – old story for GW2… but in dungeon it wasnt so important (because dungeon – it’s easyer than raid – so even not-meta party can do it without problem). But now (with raids) bad balance can kill many profession.
5) One of the main reason for wipe in a raids it’s:
:):):)
– To much animation effects it this game. (it’s another OLD problem in GW2), and same – it wasnt so important in dungeon. But in raids – it’s just pain… 10 man (usualy with legend skins) = you are almost blind. You cant avoid AOE because you cant see “red circle” (nah.. you can’t see even yours own as… some time).

And more…. and more…. and more…. Sorry just dont want write “text-wall”.

I just can say one more time – looks like someone payed Annet for this HoT… wipe. Because big company just cant do such “baby bug”.

This applies to most hardcore content, and isn’t just exclusive to GW2 – it is very common for the majority of MMO’s out there.

Actually, this applies to almost all content. Somebody, sometime, is going to find the most effective build or build set for that patch.

For new players, You may take half a year to create your raid characters, and take the other half to create the legendary armors.

IMO I think the best way to play a profession is to under EVERY trait, and weapon skill available. On my ele I will run zerk, clerics, or knights. With those 3 stat sets I can easily combine run a multitude of different builds(i am at 7 now). I will always manipulate util skills or trait selection based on the situation. You should learn to have your own way to play every possibly build. I won’t make this too long, but i can do full glass and full tank on my ele. I prefer to use my reaper or rev for condi. Also for 10 randoms to coordinate well, they will HAVE to use some sort of base system, since communciation will not be as effective. IF you want to be play raids with any build you want, you need to work with close friends. That way you can make a custom strategy for your team.

It is alot of work to figure out how to beat a raid, if you just wanna hit LFG and join and want success, then yes you are at the mercy of using what other players have decided will work. If you want to do it your way, gather a squad and make new ways to beat it through trial and error!

KINGRPG.3492:

For new players, You may take half a year to create your raid characters.

If your a new player, raids should be on the back burner! It is for top-end level progression. It should take alot of knowledge of the game to succeed.

It all comes back to raid timer. It’s a horrible horrible mechanic.

Roman God of War.6953:

KINGRPG.3492:

For new players, You may take half a year to create your raid characters.

If your a new player, raids should be on the back burner! It is for top-end level progression. It should take alot of knowledge of the game to succeed.

Sorry.. but agane:
Raid-boss tactic (for now) not much harder than tactic for common dungeon. Everyone can check it in youtube or any other service.

Reason for pain – bad mechanics. It looks “raw” and “unfinished”.

Dont know like you folks. But i think: Fight aganst boss – good. Fight aganst stupid idea and painful mechanics – it’s bad (it’s not challenge – it’s just stupid).

I would love to do raids.

But apparently I paid $50 to never experience it due to elitism.

You can experience it if you open LFG and join a raid group.

demetry.9541:

Roman God of War.6953:

KINGRPG.3492:

For new players, You may take half a year to create your raid characters.

If your a new player, raids should be on the back burner! It is for top-end level progression. It should take alot of knowledge of the game to succeed.

Sorry.. but agane:
Raid-boss tactic (for now) not much harder than tactic for common dungeon. Everyone can check it in youtube or any other service.

Reason for pain – bad mechanics. It looks “raw” and “unfinished”.

Dont know like you folks. But i think: Fight aganst boss – good. Fight aganst stupid idea and painful mechanics – it’s bad (it’s not challenge – it’s just stupid).

I’m talking about the funding.

<sighs> This really isn’t rocket science.

Of course players are going to prefer builds they think will work better. What did people expect? The harder content is, the less likely any ol’ build will work. Fact is, the old dungeons are the content that allow any ol’ build — if only people were willing to eschew convenience and find people like themselves.

There’s only one way around that issue — which is to have builds be essentially equal. This is neither likely nor desirable. What’s more likely and more desirable is for one encounter which favors Build A, and a second that favors Build B. Sounds like there’s a little of that in raids so far, on first blush, anyway.

If you’re getting kicked while running a “good enough” build, then either your build isn’t good enough, or your group doesn’t understand the raid.

for the vale guardian in particular, as a DPS class, you only need around 7k DPS. If you can reliably provide that while providing team support, then your build is alright. That’s not the raids fault, that’s the fault of mindless pugs for kicking someone who can carry their weight.

Cookie cutter builds just happen to be reliable builds that can easily provide that damage as long as you have a semblance of knowledge of the game.

Personally, my group accepts any class as long as you fit in our comp (1 healer, 1 tank, 5 dps, 3 condi), you understand the mechanics (main cause of wipes is pugs that don’t understand) and you’re in full zerker/sinister (for dps/condi). That honestly isn’t that hard to make.

I love how effective builds are called cookie cutter builds in this game as if there are multiple ways to build for max DPS either for condi of Power. Mind Blown.

Thoughness under x, where x is the thoughness of the raid’s tank, really has nothing to do with this. You’ll draw aggro if you have a higher amount. That being said, as long as the content remains difficult, meta-builds will be required from most people. You don’t want to spend hours on trying the rate to find out you are lacking the dps to make it. The only way to prevent this is frequent balance patches to make more stuff viable. Remains to be de en if Anet will ever do that.

Dejavu.2349:

Wahaha.7938:

But it was always the norm in dungeons and then in fractals.

I must have gotten lucky – never once had anyone question my spec or ability. Though I do tend to run in a tight circle…

Why don’t you just keep doing this?

Yea, some times I can’t see anything. Example
spoilers
https://youtu.be/xWCvZJ0ZFho?t=8m12s
Yea…
Lucky drop

The toughness thing has a point, if the boss is constantly changing targets it’s impossible to kill. Please know what you’re talking about before complaining about it….