Guild Wars 2

Ok as we all know getting into raid’s has become a problem. And it keeps getting worse as each new wing pushes some people even further behind from others. Which is why a lot of people still don’t even have the mastery unlocked.
And almost no one will take a newcomer along except for their guild. So I see 2 solutions:

1) Simply give us the ability to form an allegiance among guilds just like in GW1.
How is this a solution? Well a single guild cannot exactly do all the raiding all their members may want to do. Unless the guild is all raid focused. But does that mean everyone who wants to do raids is now suppose to go join a guild like that?
Like ok we can join more than one guld but we can only represent one at a time so the other might not be happy about it. So if we have an allegiance we can split guild focus.
One guild can be focused on PvP, another on Fractals, Raids, WvW etc.
It will be much more easy to form a raid team that way. While it’s obvious a guild will primarily take their own members they will no longer have to rely on pugs.
I remember it was that way in GW1 – guild member>ally>pug.
So yes pugs were still taken but only as last resort. But how does that help pugs? Well obviously they have their own guild which can form it’s own allegiance which will help them finding a team.

2) Ok so the whole problem with pugs is the fact they tend to not know the boss mechanics. So no one wants a pug really because then the raid will take a lot longer as even 1 inexperienced player may ruin it. But how can they learn the mechanics if no one wants to take them? It’s really a closed circle here. And don’t get me started on youtube video’s because honestly watching how it’s done is not the same as actually doing it. It’s because you still won’t understand the “what if’s”. Like what if I don’t go there? Or what if I don’t dodge that? Really this is just like when the Swamp Fractal was changed. First month there was a lot of fails but now it never fails because almost everyone knows what to do.
So I propose something called “Raid Training Mode”. Think of it as a Raid version of SAB’s Infentile Mode. It would be a raid instance where the boss battles are greatly scaled down where even 1 player can defeat every boss.
However certain mechanics should remain as deadly as ever as the whole purpose is to learn what we need to avoid, dodge or prevent. So for example Vale Guardians blue lightning attack would still instantly kill the player if they are not in the circle. Or things like the orbs that appear while fighting Gorseval would still reduce outgoing damage and increase incoming damage. However things like the boss’ health and damage would be greatly reduced.
But of course the problem is the parts where the team needs to split up like when Vale Guardian is at 66 and 33% of health and we need to fight the 3 guardians. Well that could simply be solved by having the timer stop counting during such parts thus one can kill each guardian in turn. Or it could be done by having all 3 die by just killing 1 thus the player would simply have to choose which to kill. And things like the blue guardians lightining attack would not effect a player that is attuned to one of the other 2 guardians. So unless he/she will choose to fight the blue one the lighting will do no harm in this part.
The training could also have a mode for a party of 5 players just like fractals and dungeons where everything is exactly as in the normal raid. However the difficulty would be scaled down to the point it would be like doing a dungeon story mode.
The training mode would have it’s own achievement’s which when fully complete would grant a title like “Raid Trainee”. So having that title would indicate that the person does know the “what if’s” and would make it more easy for them to find a team.
It probably wouldn’t solve the problem fully but at least reduce it.
Also killing a boss in training mode would unlock the Forsaken Thicket mastery too.
Because even people in training will need it to get around the area. However it would not give the mastery points awarded for the Boss kills. So one would need to get those from other HoT stuff if they want to fully master this line.
It could also be possible to complete the Legendary Armour collections in this mode.
Now this might be going too far but honestly one still won’t be able to craft their Legendary Armour without the Legendary Insight’s which would not be awarded in training mode. The training mode could grant some rewards but they would be minor.

So these are my idea’s. As a side note I will say I don’t care either way whether you like my idea’s or not. As this isn’t really my problem but a lot of people are unhappy with raid’s and their current pug group’s so I’m doing it for them really.

Rikimaru.7890:

Ok as we all know getting into raid’s has become a problem. And it keeps getting worse as each new wing pushes some people even further behind from others. Which is why a lot of people still don’t even have the mastery unlocked.
And almost no one will take a newcomer along except for their guild. So I see 2 solutions:

Slowly starting to think that the recent barrage of complaints has caused some voices to come out of hiding…to come up with “definitely productive solutions” to a “definite problem” that has nothing to do with getting “easy access to rewards”.

But I’ll bite.

Rikimaru.7890:

1) <Snip – Guild Alliances>

Isn’t that why we have 5 slots for guilds we can tag up as? So we can talk with a raid guild, while SPvP with our 4 other SPvP guild buddies. I don’t see the point of this at all, we have the tools already to flexibly shift the guild you are representing, that choice is already in our hands.

Rikimaru.7890:

2) <Snip – Easy Mode with access to all rewards>

Neat. At least you were up-front with what you really want, gotcha. I can totally see your enthusiasm for improving the Raiding Experience by providing a solution that would bury it forever. You are doing us proud.

Rikimaru.7890:

So these are my idea’s. As a side note I will say I don’t care either way whether you like my idea’s or not. As this isn’t really my problem but a lot of people are unhappy with raid’s and their current pug group’s so I’m doing it for them really.

And I like this to, you took enough of your time to type this all up, and pointed out to the crowd and said ‘Well it’s more for those guys, I don’t care, and you shouldn’t bother responding because it ain’t my problem’.

If it isn’t your problem, you wouldn’t have made a post like this in the first place. By far one of the worst posts I have ever read.

2/10, at least stand by your threads next time.

Sykper.6583:

Snip – Easy Mode with access to all rewards>

Neat. At least you were up-front with what you really want, gotcha. I can totally see your enthusiasm for improving the Raiding Experience by providing a solution that would bury it forever. You are doing us proud.

Rikimaru.7890:

So these are my idea’s. As a side note I will say I don’t care either way whether you like my idea’s or not. As this isn’t really my problem but a lot of people are unhappy with raid’s and their current pug group’s so I’m doing it for them really.

And I like this to, you took enough of your time to type this all up, and pointed out to the crowd and said ‘Well it’s more for those guys, I don’t care, and you shouldn’t bother responding because it ain’t my problem’.

If it isn’t your problem, you wouldn’t have made a post like this in the first place. By far one of the worst posts I have ever read.

2/10, at least stand by your threads next time.

Now hold on don’t be too quick to judge.. maybe he has a point, but he ended it on the wrong foot. A slight misstep can be forgiven every now and then, but in the broader sense when multiple ppl already are voicing their opinions for a training mode in raids on these forums, that’s usually a sign that they are speaking not only for themselves but for some part of the player base, especially a large portion of casuals or ppl who either don’t have the skill to or are unwilling to get their feet wet with raid content.

For instance, a guildie of mine was complaining abt how frustrating it is to join more than 10 exp groups for VG (as he attested) and still not manage to get the kill. He blamed it on either lack of coordination, or ppl in his groups always not knowing what to do and getting each other wiped. This guild is not for training either btw.. it might not be a pro raiding guild, but it is a raiding guild. As well, that’s not to mention those ppl who might be more interested in other content perhaps even outside of PvE, but are unable to unlock the mastery tracks for raids bc they just don’t raid and maybe never will. They shouldn’t have to be forced to buy a w1 run or even a single boss kill for 150g, it’s just not fair.

Somehow the OP managed to come out with a proposed solution that is actually very closely aligned to what I was thinking, only I never explicitly said anything abt it before. The very fact that ppl have been proposing similar solutions (despite most of them getting dismissed or not taken seriously), means that some ppl are tired of raids being exclusive content only for elite players who have long been part of elite raiding guilds.

The way I had thought about it would be like a solo story instance, where u don’t have to worry abt grouping up at all. Therefore you can go leisurely at your own pace, but of course the content will still be as unforgiving despite being scaled down to solo clear. The reasoning behind this is, even unforgiving dungeons such as arah don’t have a training mode for their explorable path per say, however you are still allowed to enter instance on your own and solo 5man content despite it taking many grueling hours. So the solo ‘training’ mode should be just as unforgiving, and just as punishing. As to the unavoidable question of how key mechanics that required multiple ppl to handle would be handled.. I propose maybe a team of 4 npcs to assist u in every fight, maybe from your personal story or something. At the start of every encounter, u could get a choice similar to choosing your path in a dungeon, only it would ask whether u prefer to melee or stay ranged the whole time.

Let’s use fight at VG as an example here. If the former, npcs could handle other things for u like always getting to the grn circles on time, allowing u to focus on fighting the boss whole time. In split phase, they would each go to one boss and basically distract them for a while, and let u deal with all 4 and perhaps end up doing the condi guardians together. For the latter choice, one npc can tank boss and move him around, while u and the rest of npcs have to always run to grn circles. The only problem I see with this is just about npcs themselves, too many bugs when u involve their redundancies and scripted behavior, as dungeons themselves have so many broken npcs atm

Obviously I don’t think training mode for raids should have any rewards like he is saying. I would even be perfectly ok with no loot or rewards at all, and I know most players would be too long as it meant they got some practice on some mechanics for bosses without constantly having to search the lfg for the particular one they need. For instance, ive never had any training with being a slubbling in the sloth encounter, so yesterday I was asked to handle this since I knew the general principle. I messed up 1st time cos I ran outta time in slub form, but handled it fine after. This messup could’ve easily been avoided had I some form of reliable hands-on experience with it, but it’s difficult to ever train for it without being in a group setting. Therefore practice on every boss encounter when solo, would be something i would be keen on

Again, OP had right idea about fully completing training mode awarding some sort of tangible proof as doing so, such as a title that other exp groups could ask for. This would be helpful in bridging the gap between non-exp and exp, so that those ppl can actually join real runs for those bosses and feel confident abt themselves without wiping their group or smthing

Sykper.6583:

Rikimaru.7890:

Ok as we all know getting into raid’s has become a problem. And it keeps getting worse as each new wing pushes some people even further behind from others. Which is why a lot of people still don’t even have the mastery unlocked.
And almost no one will take a newcomer along except for their guild. So I see 2 solutions:

Slowly starting to think that the recent barrage of complaints has caused some voices to come out of hiding…to come up with “definitely productive solutions” to a “definite problem” that has nothing to do with getting “easy access to rewards”.

But I’ll bite.

Rikimaru.7890:

1) <Snip – Guild Alliances>

Isn’t that why we have 5 slots for guilds we can tag up as? So we can talk with a raid guild, while SPvP with our 4 other SPvP guild buddies. I don’t see the point of this at all, we have the tools already to flexibly shift the guild you are representing, that choice is already in our hands.

Rikimaru.7890:

2) <Snip – Easy Mode with access to all rewards>

Neat. At least you were up-front with what you really want, gotcha. I can totally see your enthusiasm for improving the Raiding Experience by providing a solution that would bury it forever. You are doing us proud.

Rikimaru.7890:

So these are my idea’s. As a side note I will say I don’t care either way whether you like my idea’s or not. As this isn’t really my problem but a lot of people are unhappy with raid’s and their current pug group’s so I’m doing it for them really.

And I like this to, you took enough of your time to type this all up, and pointed out to the crowd and said ‘Well it’s more for those guys, I don’t care, and you shouldn’t bother responding because it ain’t my problem’.

If it isn’t your problem, you wouldn’t have made a post like this in the first place. By far one of the worst posts I have ever read.

2/10, at least stand by your threads next time.

Oh I’m sorry for not being one of those that have this problem like “monsieur.”
I never cared about Raids nor Legendary Armour and thus I only ever go raiding when people ask me too. Which is why it’s not really my problem.
However if his “lordship” is so distasted with my post then why doesn’t “monsieur” propose something better?

That’s part of the issue, around half the folks will say ‘I actually don’t mind Easy Mode not having rewards’ while the other half claims the only purpose of said mode would be an alternative to getting the same rewards as normal.

I’ve gone through these motions dozens of times already. Imagine if raids did have a training mode that was worthless, explain to me how that content won’t get ignored after a few months of non-raiders going into it, and no one ever needing to use it again. Congrats, you have created another Dungeon in the game, except it doesn’t offer tokens or gold.

So then the argument shifts towards applying rewards, to what extent? You obviously need to keep the appeal of raiding up, and everything you do in this game has a cost associated with it. Make the rewards for Easy Mode too lucrative? No one would run the Normal mode, and you have actually nerfed raids. Easy mode not worth it enough? Non-raiders will do it once like before, but find their time more productive elsewhere…

But then they bring up the point about it being some sort of ‘right thing to do’ since that’s what everyone wants. How do they know? Do they have some sort of numbers the rest of us are unaware of? Or are they trying to take advantage of the conversation to push an agenda that no one who is actually raiding successfully wants?

There’s a lot of claims out there, a lot of biases. I know without a doubt some of the people complaining don’t actually care about raiding. I know they don’t, because the quality of their arguments or solutions isn’t considering the counterarguments or scenarios that would come from them. They just ignore it, or say ‘Well that’s what you think, but it won’t play out like that’. Oh because when you paint a “Raiding Picture”, that will totally happen but when we bring up something that could muddle that vision, suddenly we’re the ones that are wrong to think that?

…For a while now, I have been an advocate of applying some of the unique quality rewards from Raids, elsewhere. There should be a legendary quality armor outside of Raiding, and there is a fair point that this particular set is taking Arenanet quite a long time to dole out.

But I have to consistently ask what is it that makes my solution for Legendary Armor available elsewhere so unappealing to players who despise raiding so much that instead they want to take resources and time away from future Raid Development to fix an issue that they personally have with the content, that raiders right now are not having. When we can just as easily have Legendary Armor in content said raid-hating players DO enjoy.

Is that not a sound argument?

Rikimaru.7890:

Sykper.6583:

Rikimaru.7890:

Ok as we all know getting into raid’s has become a problem. And it keeps getting worse as each new wing pushes some people even further behind from others. Which is why a lot of people still don’t even have the mastery unlocked.
And almost no one will take a newcomer along except for their guild. So I see 2 solutions:

Slowly starting to think that the recent barrage of complaints has caused some voices to come out of hiding…to come up with “definitely productive solutions” to a “definite problem” that has nothing to do with getting “easy access to rewards”.

But I’ll bite.

Rikimaru.7890:

1) <Snip – Guild Alliances>

Isn’t that why we have 5 slots for guilds we can tag up as? So we can talk with a raid guild, while SPvP with our 4 other SPvP guild buddies. I don’t see the point of this at all, we have the tools already to flexibly shift the guild you are representing, that choice is already in our hands.

Rikimaru.7890:

2) <Snip – Easy Mode with access to all rewards>

Neat. At least you were up-front with what you really want, gotcha. I can totally see your enthusiasm for improving the Raiding Experience by providing a solution that would bury it forever. You are doing us proud.

Rikimaru.7890:

So these are my idea’s. As a side note I will say I don’t care either way whether you like my idea’s or not. As this isn’t really my problem but a lot of people are unhappy with raid’s and their current pug group’s so I’m doing it for them really.

And I like this to, you took enough of your time to type this all up, and pointed out to the crowd and said ‘Well it’s more for those guys, I don’t care, and you shouldn’t bother responding because it ain’t my problem’.

If it isn’t your problem, you wouldn’t have made a post like this in the first place. By far one of the worst posts I have ever read.

2/10, at least stand by your threads next time.

Oh I’m sorry for not being one of those that have this problem like “monsieur.”
I never cared about Raids nor Legendary Armour and thus I only ever go raiding when people ask me too. Which is why it’s not really my problem.
However if his “lordship” is so distasted with my post then why doesn’t “monsieur” propose something better?

Please read my last two paragraphs of my last post. There’s my proposition.

Sykper.6583:

That’s part of the issue, around half the folks will say ‘I actually don’t mind Easy Mode not having rewards’ while the other half claims the only purpose of said mode would be an alternative to getting the same rewards as normal.

I’ve gone through these motions dozens of times already. Imagine if raids did have a training mode that was worthless, explain to me how that content won’t get ignored after a few months of non-raiders going into it, and no one ever needing to use it again. Congrats, you have created another Dungeon in the game, except it doesn’t offer tokens or gold.

So then the argument shifts towards applying rewards, to what extent? You obviously need to keep the appeal of raiding up, and everything you do in this game has a cost associated with it. Make the rewards for Easy Mode too lucrative? No one would run the Normal mode, and you have actually nerfed raids. Easy mode not worth it enough? Non-raiders will do it once like before, but find their time more productive elsewhere…

But then they bring up the point about it being some sort of ‘right thing to do’ since that’s what everyone wants. How do they know? Do they have some sort of numbers the rest of us are unaware of? Or are they trying to take advantage of the conversation to push an agenda that no one who is actually raiding successfully wants?

There’s a lot of claims out there, a lot of biases. I know without a doubt some of the people complaining don’t actually care about raiding. I know they don’t, because the quality of their arguments or solutions isn’t considering the counterarguments or scenarios that would come from them. They just ignore it, or say ‘Well that’s what you think, but it won’t play out like that’. Oh because when you paint a “Raiding Picture”, that will totally happen but when we bring up something that could muddle that vision, suddenly we’re the ones that are wrong to think that?

…For a while now, I have been an advocate of applying some of the unique quality rewards from Raids, elsewhere. There should be a legendary quality armor outside of Raiding, and there is a fair point that this particular set is taking Arenanet quite a long time to dole out.

But I have to consistently ask what is it that makes my solution for Legendary Armor available elsewhere so unappealing to players who despise raiding so much that instead they want to take resources and time away from future Raid Development to fix an issue that they personally have with the content, that raiders right now are not having. When we can just as easily have Legendary Armor in content said raid-hating players DO enjoy.

Is that not a sound argument?

Nope because you miss the point. This isn’t about Legendary Armour or any other rewards. This is about players blocking other players from doing certain content. They also paid for the game so they should be allowed to do Raids if the want and no one should prevent them from it.
It’s like going to a restaurant where everyone pays the same. But some people sit at a luxury table and are served exquisite food. While others sit at a ruined table and are served leftovers while they paid the same amount of money for it.
And the reason for that is because they are new clients while those at the luxury table are regulars.
You also forgot to point out what is your problem. So I will do it for you:
Your problem is your bloated ego. Thats the reason you are so outraged about this. As long as only a few people can do raids you have a reason to brag that you can while others never get a chance to even join one. So once there is an inflation of raiders you will no longer have reasons to brag. Not that you could impress me. Even if you belonged to the only team of 10 players in the world that can do raids I would still not be impressed.
So yeah like you said: “One of the worst posts I have ever read – 2/10”

Rikimaru.7890:

Sykper.6583:

That’s part of the issue, around half the folks will say ‘I actually don’t mind Easy Mode not having rewards’ while the other half claims the only purpose of said mode would be an alternative to getting the same rewards as normal.

I’ve gone through these motions dozens of times already. Imagine if raids did have a training mode that was worthless, explain to me how that content won’t get ignored after a few months of non-raiders going into it, and no one ever needing to use it again. Congrats, you have created another Dungeon in the game, except it doesn’t offer tokens or gold.

So then the argument shifts towards applying rewards, to what extent? You obviously need to keep the appeal of raiding up, and everything you do in this game has a cost associated with it. Make the rewards for Easy Mode too lucrative? No one would run the Normal mode, and you have actually nerfed raids. Easy mode not worth it enough? Non-raiders will do it once like before, but find their time more productive elsewhere…

But then they bring up the point about it being some sort of ‘right thing to do’ since that’s what everyone wants. How do they know? Do they have some sort of numbers the rest of us are unaware of? Or are they trying to take advantage of the conversation to push an agenda that no one who is actually raiding successfully wants?

There’s a lot of claims out there, a lot of biases. I know without a doubt some of the people complaining don’t actually care about raiding. I know they don’t, because the quality of their arguments or solutions isn’t considering the counterarguments or scenarios that would come from them. They just ignore it, or say ‘Well that’s what you think, but it won’t play out like that’. Oh because when you paint a “Raiding Picture”, that will totally happen but when we bring up something that could muddle that vision, suddenly we’re the ones that are wrong to think that?

…For a while now, I have been an advocate of applying some of the unique quality rewards from Raids, elsewhere. There should be a legendary quality armor outside of Raiding, and there is a fair point that this particular set is taking Arenanet quite a long time to dole out.

But I have to consistently ask what is it that makes my solution for Legendary Armor available elsewhere so unappealing to players who despise raiding so much that instead they want to take resources and time away from future Raid Development to fix an issue that they personally have with the content, that raiders right now are not having. When we can just as easily have Legendary Armor in content said raid-hating players DO enjoy.

Is that not a sound argument?

Nope because you miss the point. This isn’t about Legendary Armour or any other rewards. This is about players blocking other players from doing certain content. They also paid for the game so they should be allowed to do Raids if the want and no one should prevent them from it.
It’s like going to a restaurant where everyone pays the same. But some people sit at a luxury table and are served exquisite food. While others sit at a ruined table and are served leftovers while they paid the same amount of money for it.
And the reason for that is because they are new clients while those at the luxury table are regulars.
You also forgot to point out what is your problem. So I will do it for you:
Your problem is your bloated ego. Thats the reason you are so outraged about this. As long as only a few people can do raids you have a reason to brag that you can while others never get a chance to even join one. So once there is an inflation of raiders you will no longer have reasons to brag. Not that you could impress me. Even if you belonged to the only team of 10 players in the world that can do raids I would still not be impressed.
So yeah like you said: “One of the worst posts I have ever read – 2/10”

If you want to raid start a Raid group/guild and go raid nothing is stopping you at that point all the resources are out there for you to be successful

Rikimaru.7890:

It’s like going to a restaurant where everyone pays the same. But some people sit at a luxury table and are served exquisite food. While others sit at a ruined table and are served leftovers while they paid the same amount of money for it.
And the reason for that is because they are new clients while those at the luxury table are regulars.

Bad analogy.

The correct one would be : “It’s like going to a restaurant where everyone pays the same. There is a nice buffet close to the tables, and another buffet with exquisite food much further from the tables. But some people are too lazy to go to the furthest buffet and are therefore stuck with normal food, whereas other people go to some lengths to get the exquisite food”.

All players have access to raids. Those who refuse to train, read guides, and generally speaking, to “git gud”, won’t get very far in raids.

Do you think we raiders became good at it overnight ? We all worked for it !

For heaven’s sake, it took me a whole month to actually SEE the blue circles on VG ! First time I saw them I even went Oooooooooooooh !! so that’s what those are !! OO !

You CAN read guides and watch videos.
You CAN start training runs yourself, try, die, rinse and repeat until you get it.
You CAN do, basically, what we all did : Learn.

But it is soooo much easier to come on the forums and complain.

You want the shinies but you don’t want to work for it.

No pain, no gain.

Lilandrea.7109:

Rikimaru.7890:

It’s like going to a restaurant where everyone pays the same. But some people sit at a luxury table and are served exquisite food. While others sit at a ruined table and are served leftovers while they paid the same amount of money for it.
And the reason for that is because they are new clients while those at the luxury table are regulars.

Bad analogy.

The correct one would be : “It’s like going to a restaurant where everyone pays the same. There is a nice buffet close to the tables, and another buffet with exquisite food much further from the tables. But some people are too lazy to go to the furthest buffet and are therefore stuck with normal food, whereas other people go to some lengths to get the exquisite food”.

All players have access to raids. Those who refuse to train, read guides, and generally speaking, to “git gud”, won’t get very far in raids.

Do you think we raiders became good at it overnight ? We all worked for it !

For heaven’s sake, it took me a whole month to actually SEE the blue circles on VG ! First time I saw them I even went Oooooooooooooh !! so that’s what those are !! OO !

You CAN read guides and watch videos.
You CAN start training runs yourself, try, die, rinse and repeat until you get it.
You CAN do, basically, what we all did : Learn.

But it is soooo much easier to come on the forums and complain.

You want the shinies but you don’t want to work for it.

No pain, no gain.

Isn’t my idea with raid training for the purpose of training? It seems you didn’t even read my OP. So I’m guessing you are friend of Sykper.6583 who he send to defend him because I hit him where it hurts and he has no reply of his own. Which is why you quote what I wrote on his post rather than on my OP.

Wow, amazing arguments riki xD.

The solution to the problem is players putting effort into learning and adapting rather than competing to write the longest posts on the forum about how raids should be easier or how they somehow are completely inaccessible(they aren’t but will take dedication) or full of toxicity.

Lilandrea.7109:

Rikimaru.7890:

It’s like going to a restaurant where everyone pays the same. But some people sit at a luxury table and are served exquisite food. While others sit at a ruined table and are served leftovers while they paid the same amount of money for it.
And the reason for that is because they are new clients while those at the luxury table are regulars.

Bad analogy.

The correct one would be : “It’s like going to a restaurant where everyone pays the same. There is a nice buffet close to the tables, and another buffet with exquisite food much further from the tables. But some people are too lazy to go to the furthest buffet and are therefore stuck with normal food, whereas other people go to some lengths to get the exquisite food”.

All players have access to raids. Those who refuse to train, read guides, and generally speaking, to “git gud”, won’t get very far in raids.

Do you think we raiders became good at it overnight ? We all worked for it !

For heaven’s sake, it took me a whole month to actually SEE the blue circles on VG ! First time I saw them I even went Oooooooooooooh !! so that’s what those are !! OO !

You CAN read guides and watch videos.
You CAN start training runs yourself, try, die, rinse and repeat until you get it.
You CAN do, basically, what we all did : Learn.

But it is soooo much easier to come on the forums and complain.

You want the shinies but you don’t want to work for it.

No pain, no gain.

+1 to the better analogy.

There are a lot of people who get dragged into raiding over time. Since we started raiding in our guild we recruited around 10 people that were attracted to the mode but needed a regular group to do so. Yet half of them left quite soon when they discovered how much effort they have to put in to perform well, how much they have to learn about the game itself before even fighting against advises.
And we are somehow a casual guild! I mean we have two or three guys who finished the collection in pug (well some got carried…) and the rest is for now 7/9 boss. I remember the first week when a guy who stopped playing since had ideas about plenty of hybrid builds that were bad in every aspects just because he did not have any clue of what scaling meant, how ferocity works, how boons work ….. When at some point I got annoyed and said he was not competent enough to teach us how to play he stopped coming with us because we were “Meta fanboys while the game is made to play how I want…”
Basically if there is any issue with raiding now (outside of the fact I find itemization to be too prevalent compared to player skill), it comes from people that are a bit too stubborn and repeat mantras without understanding them. I said many times that encounters in this game are like practice mode, you have different phases where you learn the boss mechanics. This is enough of training, as long as anyone wants to learn.

As for rewards, well all legendary weapons require PvE only activities (sans Gift of battle), one backpack requires PvP and another Fractals… so having an exclusive rewards for raids is nothing to be mad at.

Why don’t players who want a training mode push for a heavy modification of the Special Forces Training Area? It even has training in the name! It would have no negative impact on raids and you could choose the bosses, have various options such as activating or disabling mechanics so you can pay attention to one thing at a time to train. Regular raiders could just mix various mechanics from various bosses to make more challenging fights.

Bratwa.6582:

Why don’t players who want a training mode push for a heavy modification of the Special Forces Training Area? It even has training in the name! It would have no negative impact on raids and you could choose the bosses, have various options such as activating or disabling mechanics so you can pay attention to one thing at a time to train. Regular raiders could just mix various mechanics from various bosses to make more challenging fights.

In b4, it has no rewards, it has no story……

Chris McSwag.4683:

Wow, amazing arguments riki xD.

The solution to the problem is players putting effort into learning and adapting rather than competing to write the longest posts on the forum about how raids should be easier or how they somehow are completely inaccessible(they aren’t but will take dedication) or full of toxicity.

Isn’t my idea with training mode all about getting people to learn and adapt? I find your sarcasm a parody of itself as a result. Because it seems you didn’t even read my OP.

Don’t blame people for not reading when you are overly verbose. part of being an effective writer is being succinct and purposeful. IF you work on developing those skills your next post won’t be ignored or ridiculed.

Lilandrea.7109:

Bad analogy.

The correct one would be : “It’s like going to a restaurant where everyone pays the same. There is a nice buffet close to the tables, and another buffet with exquisite food much further from the tables. But some people are too lazy to go to the furthest buffet and are therefore stuck with normal food, whereas other people go to some lengths to get the exquisite food”.

All players have access to raids. Those who refuse to train, read guides, and generally speaking, to “git gud”, won’t get very far in raids.

Do you think we raiders became good at it overnight ? We all worked for it !

For heaven’s sake, it took me a whole month to actually SEE the blue circles on VG ! First time I saw them I even went Oooooooooooooh !! so that’s what those are !! OO !

You CAN read guides and watch videos.
You CAN start training runs yourself, try, die, rinse and repeat until you get it.
You CAN do, basically, what we all did : Learn.

But it is soooo much easier to come on the forums and complain.

You want the shinies but you don’t want to work for it.

No pain, no gain.

+1

Players nowadays have access to much more [detailed] resources than player did when the wings first came out. So, there’s virtually no excuse for a player walking into an encounter without some theoretical/learned knowledge of the mechanics. Though, finding a group to tag along with is indeed an issue, I place the burden of effort on the new player trying to get into raids.

1) We have 5 guild slots for that very reason. Assuming you have 1 slot dedicated to your “main” guild and a second slot for your bank guild that leaves 3 slots for auxiliary guilds for PvP, PvE, WvW, Raids, Balloon hunting, etc.

2) Honestly, if you (or anyone else) can’t be bothered to look up a YouTube video? Well, good luck finding a group. No, watching a video won’t make you into a rockstar overnight, but it will at least give you an understanding of the core mechanics. The whole "what if’s: situation? That part is learned over time as you get more time on the field. But I’d much rather have someone in my team that has a foundation to work off of (videos or guides) than coming in with no knowledge of the fight.

As far as easy mode? Personally I like the idea, but from a business perspective it just won’t fly. The training mode would get used and burned out very quickly as once the influx or trainees “graduate” there would be very little traffic passing through it. Thus, I couldn’t think of a way dev’s would justify having something like that that needed to be maintained. However, just like SAB, I wouldn’t mind if it was a seasonal thing. That way both the devs and players know that there’s a cutoff time. Those who missed it? Well, sorry, but that’s just the nature of playing a live/dynamic game.

Ultimately, the core issue remains that players aren’t putting in the effort needed. The whole “Be the change you wish to be” applies very true here. Personally, I acknowledge there’s a gap between seasoned players and newer players.

What am I doing to change that? For one, I long ago stepped down from a guild that was very quickly becoming too elitist in the aspect of raids and instead found a smaller/cozier guild with a bunch of goofballs. Secondly, I saw that there were players that wanted to raid but were too shy or thought of themselves as too unskilled to do raids. So, I gathered them all up with the help of a few others, and I can proudly say I have led a group of players through their first kill of a raid boss. They did so well in fact, that now I gotta look at doing a new boss with them since the first one is too easy for them now.

So other than complaining on a forum post, what are you doing to fix the situation? Are you doing your “homework”, getting the right gear, going on trying/noob runs? If you’re not then I can see why you think there’s a problem with newer players trying to get into raids.

P.S. Sorry for the wall of text.

NikeEU.7690:

Don’t blame people for not reading when you are overly verbose. part of being an effective writer is being succinct and purposeful. IF you work on developing those skills your next post won’t be ignored or ridiculed.

You try to play master of linguistics by subscribing to online dicionaries. And use rarely used words to prove how “smart” you are. But guess what? You forgot to start a sentence with a capital letter.

I was referring to effective writing not proper spelling and grammar. you could either take what I wrote as constructive criticism and grow, or you can get defensive and attack me. THE choice was yours and you picked the immature option. it’s always a sad day when an opportunity for personal growth is wasted through prideful thinking.

NikeEU.7690:

I was referring to effective writing not proper spelling and grammar. you could either take what I wrote as constructive criticism and grow, or you can get defensive and attack me. THE choice was yours and you picked the immature option. it’s always a sad day when an opportunity for personal growth is wasted through prideful thinking.

Funny because you attack me first for telling people to read my OP instead of criticizing me instantly. So basically you are saying “it’s ok to criticize a book based on it’s cover without even reading it”. And I should be ok with that.
The way I see it maybe you should grow up instead?
If you wanted respectful treatment then you should have said something like: People don’t read your OP because it’s too long. But I agree they should not judge it if they didn’t.

I have a great idea. I’ll propose easy-mode raids, when there are 3 threads on the topic.

I’ll attack anyone who criticizes my idea by calling them names.
I’ll also attack players who criticize my long text posts.

Yeah, sounds great. That’ll show em.

Rikimaru.7890:

NikeEU.7690:

I was referring to effective writing not proper spelling and grammar. you could either take what I wrote as constructive criticism and grow, or you can get defensive and attack me. THE choice was yours and you picked the immature option. it’s always a sad day when an opportunity for personal growth is wasted through prideful thinking.

Funny because you attack me first for telling people to read my OP instead of criticizing me instantly. So basically you are saying “it’s ok to criticize a book based on it’s cover without even reading it”. And I should be ok with that.
The way I see it maybe you should grow up instead?
If you wanted respectful treatment then you should have said something like: People don’t read your OP because it’s too long. But I agree they should not judge it if they didn’t.

Dude, all he was saying is that your opening post could use some work on the formatting, grammar, etc so that the responses to it would be better informed and properly address your suggestions.

As it stands, you have a badly formatted wall of text as your opening post that most people are speed-reading to get through or ignoring the bulk of it altogether. Is that the right thing to do? No, not at all, but at the same time I don’t expect people to read (in detail) through something that’s difficult to read to begin with.

In regard to Nike’s commentary? Don’t get me wrong, the guy can be very blunt and direct at times (Okay…all the time), but he was just trying to give you a pointer so that your thread would have been more of a success. I mean, the idea of Raid training is not an original idea so once folks saw that was one of your bullet points they skipped the wall of text since we’ve heard the argument before. Maybe not your argument, but the overall idea is similar at its core.

Chris McSwag.4683:

The solution to the problem is players putting effort into learning and adapting rather than competing to write the longest posts on the forum about how raids should be easier or how they somehow are completely inaccessible(they aren’t but will take dedication) or full of toxicity.

+1

No, I want more than 1 wing per year. Literally all of the rest of the game caters only to casuals already.

Chris McSwag.4683:

Wow, amazing arguments riki xD.

The solution to the problem is players putting effort into learning and adapting rather than competing to write the longest posts on the forum about how raids should be easier or how they somehow are completely inaccessible(they aren’t but will take dedication) or full of toxicity.

Ironically, if the same effort that goes into arguments on forums was put into practicing raids, all the “problems” were solved.

Coconut.7082:

Chris McSwag.4683:

Wow, amazing arguments riki xD.

The solution to the problem is players putting effort into learning and adapting rather than competing to write the longest posts on the forum about how raids should be easier or how they somehow are completely inaccessible(they aren’t but will take dedication) or full of toxicity.

Ironically, if the same effort that goes into arguments on forums was put into practicing raids, all the “problems” were solved.

/drops mic