Guild Wars 2

Fixing the forum bug.

Rising Dusk.2408:

I don’t oppose daily rewards or anything, but I do think that for the average raid player you go through everything once per week and then by that time the weekly reset has hit and you can do it again. It also serves to extend the lifetime of the content if you’re incentivized to do every different boss/event only once per week. I seriously don’t think it’s realistic to expect that a majority of raiders finish all 9 bosses in 2 hours Monday night. Adding a daily reward I could see a number of my friends running 9 bosses daily and then quitting the game after a couple of months (a number of my friends are pretty obsessive about always getting maximum raid rewards). I’m pretty sure the weekly lockout is specifically to discourage those burnouts.

I also think this will be even less of an issue the more raids get introduced, which is definitely part of the design. The raid team, by my understanding, is going to keep producing raids at the pace they always have, and we should see something before the end of the year from them.

Furthermore, I still stand by my previous post that as a raider who clears everything generally every week, I feel pretty well rewarded by the content. I get a lot of gold, great gold value out of the guaranteed exotics on average, good ascended turnaround, magnetite shards converting to gold or to ascended gear, etc. It feels good as it is. Now granted that doesn’t take into account a player beating a boss repeatedly back-to-back, but still.

Adding a few T6 mats will nobody motivate to farm the raidbosses over and over again, but it’s a nice reward for people that are helping out others that need raid kills later in the week. As it is now, if I am helping others later in the week, or others are helping me, the food cost is already higher than the reward that you get.

Rising Dusk.2408:

I don’t oppose daily rewards or anything, but I do think that for the average raid player you go through everything once per week and then by that time the weekly reset has hit and you can do it again. It also serves to extend the lifetime of the content if you’re incentivized to do every different boss/event only once per week. I seriously don’t think it’s realistic to expect that a majority of raiders finish all 9 bosses in 2 hours Monday night. Adding a daily reward I could see a number of my friends running 9 bosses daily and then quitting the game after a couple of months (a number of my friends are pretty obsessive about always getting maximum raid rewards). I’m pretty sure the weekly lockout is specifically to discourage those burnouts.

I also think this will be even less of an issue the more raids get introduced, which is definitely part of the design. The raid team, by my understanding, is going to keep producing raids at the pace they always have, and we should see something before the end of the year from them.

Furthermore, I still stand by my previous post that as a raider who clears everything generally every week, I feel pretty well rewarded by the content. I get a lot of gold, great gold value out of the guaranteed exotics on average, good ascended turnaround, magnetite shards converting to gold or to ascended gear, etc. It feels good as it is. Now granted that doesn’t take into account a player beating a boss repeatedly back-to-back, but still.

I don’t think you fully understand the problem at hand. Right now you have a wave of rewards from cleaning the wings, after that it’s complete kitten. The elite content gets wiped a side by some brain afk meta map event chain.

You say it has to do something with Anet wanting to prevent burnouts. So burnout from raid should get prevented, while burnout from new maps is promoted? What bothers us the most is Anet trying to make decisions for us on what to do with implementing stupid weekly lockouts on elite end-game content. The problem with the whole game is they want to prevent people from farming something and rather just give massive reward per day/week/month and then leave the content in the dark.

To some point limit the rewards and profit people can make from certain content, sure. But don’t make it complete trash so that you spend 1 week waiting only to be mildly satisfied. Don’t think anyone would like weekly cap in wvw/eotm/pvp/meta maps.

Lendruil.9061:

Adding a few T6 mats will nobody motivate to farm the raidbosses over and over again, but it’s a nice reward for people that are helping out others that need raid kills later in the week. As it is now, if I am helping others later in the week, or others are helping me, the food cost is already higher than the reward that you get.

I agree that it would be a nice incentive without singularly motivating people to run it repeatedly. I think the only issue with this suggestion is that at ANet adding a faucet for items like that requires the involvement of the economy team, which takes the economy team away from whatever their doing, and so on and so forth. It’s really not as simple as just chucking some T6 bags at players. While I don’t think any of that is prohibitive, I think the raid team is being kept busy enough that they might not rank it highly on their to-do list.

pranker.3748:

I don’t think you fully understand the problem at hand. Right now you have a wave of rewards from cleaning the wings, after that it’s complete kitten. The elite content gets wiped a side by some brain afk meta map event chain.

Yes, but the things you quoted me saying still apply. I really don’t think ANet wants to incentivize rerunning raid bosses repeatedly. It’s incomparable to meta maps or PvP or something like that because those activities are dynamic by design, whereas a raid boss—even if you change up comp or there are errors to recover from—ultimately goes basically the same way every time. You could probably make some pretty cogent arguments against that, but I think that’s where ANet is coming from regardless. Part of the problem is that big rewards from raids are awarded when the boss is killed (which varies a lot for different groups), whereas rewards from PvP or WvW are ultimately time gated by the reward track system.

I get that you’re upset about it. Paul and the rest of the raid team are hopefully reading this thread and will see the collective thoughts on it and maybe do something about it. Suffice it to say that I think they’d need to make a conscious design shift in their philosophy on raids to adjust the weekly timeout or let people farm them ad nauseum. It’s not something they’ll be able to just do. Hopefully that makes sense.

I understand your points. I would not mind having current weekly limitations if we had different situation regarding PvE. Like a new dungeon or Fotm map release every quarter of the year or any other progress in content PvE wise. I know we are getting places, but slowly. Took about 4 years to get a decent FotM system, not to mention 3 years of same old Dungeons which eventually got cut off. But give credit where its due, they did make raid wings in a bearable time. Anyway 8 old Dungeons, lets say another 6 new ones (with one or two paths), current number of FoTM with 4 new maps. That would be a pretty strong end-game content if you ask me Remember the guild wars days with UW, FoW, plents of Eotn dungeons, DoA, Urgoz, Deep, SF, ToPK,…

Still, right now it seems like they are artificially stopping us from doing stuff with weekly limitations, which wouldn’t even be bad if again, we had some other end-game content (dungeons, fotm same old).

Currently I use additional accounts (so do many people in my guild who aquired 1-2 extra accounts for raid clears) for the gold and exotics after I cleared everything once on my main accounts. Works well enough.
I dont think the raid rewards need buffing in any, especially not allowing legendary insights or raid specific loot to be aquired several times per week.

Playing with multiple accounts is win win for everyone. Anets sells accounts – Raiders get extra gold and exotics. Plus Anets metrics will look better since more accounts took part in raiding – making it more likely for future raids to be created.

I think buff the rewards is better as All aktive raiders buy more Accounts

Rising Dusk.2408:

I really don’t think ANet wants to incentivize rerunning raid bosses repeatedly. It’s incomparable to meta maps or PvP or something like that because those activities are dynamic by design, whereas a raid boss—even if you change up comp or there are errors to recover from—ultimately goes basically the same way every time. You could probably make some pretty cogent arguments against that, but I think that’s where ANet is coming from regardless. Part of the problem is that big rewards from raids are awarded when the boss is killed (which varies a lot for different groups), whereas rewards from PvP or WvW are ultimately time gated by the reward track system.

Are we talking about the same things? The dynamic events on a static schedule that are organized to rotate groups of 40+ players through 6+ maps looting chests on each? Or BS fen? The map with a dynamic, known schedule that can be organized to rotate through 3-4 maps with squads of 50 people to hit the major events? The events which, given one of these squads coming into the map, never fail? How is a map with 60+ random players that never fails different from a raid which realistically fails much more often with a bunch of randoms.

PvP? This is actually pretty dynamic since you get a bunch of random people on your team, but when they suck you actually lose out on 2/3 of your rewards.

WvW? The reward track that people pop boosters for and sit semi-afk for 5 hours to get through it? Or the zergs running around capping a bunch of objectives and do not have any limit on the total rewards they can get.

I guess that leaves the question, why is open world PvE at such a disparity from the rewards in every other game mode? While a functioning economy is great, is the extra work for the economy/rewards teams that much of a loss if we can reward players approximately equal for any game mode? Players will either burnout on raids/fractals/pvp/wvw/whatever, I’d rather have a viable alternative in each of the others rather than simply taking a drop in rewards for changing my mind about what most interests me at the moment.

Like some one had mentioned.. I want something else to burn my magnetite shards on..

I would gladly appreciate if they tossed in Tier 6 crafting bags at a reasonable price.. I mean they already tossed laurel bought things in there like the trinkets that are totally not worth the shard price.

A slight increase to the post rewards would sprinkle my interest in redoing them even more.

I’ve checked a part of Teatime the other night and they had a few interesting ideas about extra rewards.

a) keep the ‘’1st clear of the week’’ lot for all kills, with a shard cap and smaller chance of ghostly infusions, ascended gear etc.
b) unlocking a higher weekly shard cap via raid merchant for shards themselves

I believe Boott and Brazil came up with those 2, respectively.
Not sure if everybody saw that episode but still worthy ideas, any comments, replies etc?

Honestly, they could just implement Raid Dailies. Something like ‘Kill Gorseval without using an Updraft’ or ‘Defeat Sabetha without anyone dying’. Have those grant an extra bit of money like gold or maybe a bunch of T6 mats.

The problem are lockouts however. Maybe have the daily achievements for raids address all the bosses so that if you are locked out of a certain boss or have completed it for the week, you can simply join another group who hasn’t killed it yet.

But then there are probably some technical jargon like some groups not wanting to do updraft and just wanting a dead Gorseval. It can get messy.

I think the better platform is that Arenanet can set up a Weekly Achievement for the ‘harder’ version of bosses through Challenge Motes. That might be an alternative for those guilds wanting a little more bang for their buck while doing the weekly raiding.

pranker.3748:

I’ve checked a part of Teatime the other night and they had a few interesting ideas about extra rewards.

a) keep the ‘’1st clear of the week’’ lot for all kills, with a shard cap and smaller chance of ghostly infusions, ascended gear etc.
b) unlocking a higher weekly shard cap via raid merchant for shards themselves

I believe Boott and Brazil came up with those 2, respectively.
Not sure if everybody saw that episode but still worthy ideas, any comments, replies etc?

I’m not sure I understand (a), based on your description.

I believe the larger problem is no incentive to repeat raids during the week, which (b) does not address.

Speaking as a veteran Guild Wars player I kind of dislike the right bottom corner chest pop ups. I’m more of a ‘’loot the boss’’ chest person. And I’ve been missing that in Guild Wars 2 a lot up until introduction of raids, but then again got disappointed with mediocre loot and weekly limitation.
I bet a lot of people would satisfy their MMO grind need and it would give ‘’something to work for’’ if the drop rates of ascended gear and special raid rewards were lower yet not restricted with caps.

Just an honest opinion from a vet and I don’t mean veterinarian!

I agree with both views, in an average week I will clear most bosses multiple times per week. I kill Vale guardian somewhere between 3 and 6 times a week, and the rest usually at least twice. I enjoy the challenge more then I enjoy doing a meta or so, so I’ll keep repeating them with friends.

Adding more rewards would benefit me greatly, since I do bosses a lot I spent a lot of money on food. Adding some sort of reward is only sensible if you ask me.

However, blindly adding a +1g reward on all next daily kills or adding T6 materials might mean people start griding them and get burned out, which was stated before, the rewards should reward people like me that volunteer to spent money on raids not on people who are content with only doing them weekly.

Also, to prevent getting burned out from bosses, I think the ways to make extra money or rewards on new kills should be dictated in a way. Therefore I was thinking about a system of daily oppurtunities much like guild missions. Add specific conditions to certain fights, and make those a daily thing. An easy oppurtunity might be to do Escort or Trio, a medium oppurtunity might be to do VG with killing the bosses 10s apart whereas an hard oppurtunity might be to do last cannon on Sabetha. This would incentivice players to do a wider variety of boss kills making them less likely to burn out but also increases rewards so that players that replay the content get some of their expenses back.

Other oppurtunities might be having instabilities at the fights, beating a boss within a certain time, with a certain party restriction, whatever… Anet should be creative on this

pranker.3748:

Shylock.4653:

pranker.3748:

same way as you don’t get capped at 1 PvP win.

sPvP has a daily coin reward cap.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Structured_PvP#Rewards

Many other content (dungeons, open world …) has daily reward caps as well.

None of them have a weekly cap. I bet hell would break loose if you saw 1 win per map per week cap in sPvP
And what you mentioned just supports the whole idea to remove the cap or introduce better rewards. Much easier content (dungeons/fotm) have daily rewards which in most cases are better than weekly raid rewards (except if you get really lucky with ghostly infusion and that’s a once in a life occurrance). So easy content = daily restrictions = more profit vs. raids = weekly cap = medium/low worth of loot and re-runs = kitten.

Guild mission.

runeblade.7514:

pranker.3748:

Shylock.4653:

pranker.3748:

same way as you don’t get capped at 1 PvP win.

sPvP has a daily coin reward cap.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Structured_PvP#Rewards

Many other content (dungeons, open world …) has daily reward caps as well.

None of them have a weekly cap. I bet hell would break loose if you saw 1 win per map per week cap in sPvP
And what you mentioned just supports the whole idea to remove the cap or introduce better rewards. Much easier content (dungeons/fotm) have daily rewards which in most cases are better than weekly raid rewards (except if you get really lucky with ghostly infusion and that’s a once in a life occurrance). So easy content = daily restrictions = more profit vs. raids = weekly cap = medium/low worth of loot and re-runs = kitten.

Guild mission.

Right now you are comparing 2 different universes of content. One is high end elite content while other is there to allow some sort of progression for guilds same way as you have level progression with hearths, poi’s, vistas, etc.

I am sad to break it to you but what ever you tried to do failed miserably.

runeblade.7514:

pranker.3748:

Shylock.4653:

pranker.3748:

same way as you don’t get capped at 1 PvP win.

sPvP has a daily coin reward cap.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Structured_PvP#Rewards

Many other content (dungeons, open world …) has daily reward caps as well.

None of them have a weekly cap. I bet hell would break loose if you saw 1 win per map per week cap in sPvP
And what you mentioned just supports the whole idea to remove the cap or introduce better rewards. Much easier content (dungeons/fotm) have daily rewards which in most cases are better than weekly raid rewards (except if you get really lucky with ghostly infusion and that’s a once in a life occurrance). So easy content = daily restrictions = more profit vs. raids = weekly cap = medium/low worth of loot and re-runs = kitten.

Guild mission.

Too valuable comment to even comprehend it. Thanks for thy input!

Adding more rewards for rerun will almost certainly result a first run reward nerf to balance it out, making it nerf for majority and slight buff for minority. So no, this is not good idea at all.

I got my 150 insights ages ago. There really isn’t much for me to raid anymore. A lot of people are in the same situation. I only ever go if friends ask for help and that’s about it. Cleared wing 3 on release day also didn’t help much.

Adding an incentive to run for more rewards probably can bring a lot of people back.

Chaos.5072:

The most challenging content in the game should be the most rewarding content in the game.

End of story.

Agreed. Multiply all pvp rewards by 10, cut everything else in half. (Joking, mostly.)

More seriously, I certainly wouldn’t mind seeing raids get a slight increase in rewards, in particular allowing people who enjoy them can get reasonable reward in gold or items from repeated runs. It can’t be enough to cause notable inflation that would hurt non-raiders, but given the portion of the population that raids I don’t think a small amount of extra gold/high tier crafting mats/etc. per run would have a tremendous impact on the game economy as a whole.

Onlysaneman.9612:

Chaos.5072:

The most challenging content in the game should be the most rewarding content in the game.

End of story.

Agreed. Multiply all pvp rewards by 10, cut everything else in half. (Joking, mostly.)

More seriously, I certainly wouldn’t mind seeing raids get a slight increase in rewards, in particular allowing people who enjoy them can get reasonable reward in gold or items from repeated runs. It can’t be enough to cause notable inflation that would hurt non-raiders, but given the portion of the population that raids I don’t think a small amount of extra gold/high tier crafting mats/etc. per run would have a tremendous impact on the game economy as a whole.

If the raid rewards got buffed to 5g per boss and extra mats/loot it would not impact the economy. What is impacting it is the amount of people that farm Tarir Multi loot every day. 30-70 ectos per 15minutes of work is too much if you ask me.
I would totally understand this argument against the rewards, but nobody can take it seriously when there is so much brain afk farms out there that outprofit raids/fotm by kitten tons.

As for the what’s ’’hardest’’ content in game it could be a debate :P everyone has his own taste.

pranker.3748:

If the raid rewards got buffed to 5g per boss and extra mats/loot it would not impact the economy. What is impacting it is the amount of people that farm Tarir Multi loot every day. 30-70 ectos per 15minutes of work is too much if you ask me.
I would totally understand this argument against the rewards, but nobody can take it seriously when there is so much brain afk farms out there that outprofit raids/fotm by kitten tons.

As for the what’s ’’hardest’’ content in game it could be a debate :P everyone has his own taste.

I doubt they will do that because they took away the gold reward from the dungeons to begin with. The main problem I have with any kind of trad-able reward, i.e. mats or gold is the idea of who is getting them.

If you have one set of ascend armor, you are richer then half the player base. Really, only the wealthy are the ones able to raid, adding straight gold or expensive mats as a reward would make the wealthy wealthier. That could be a dangerous path.

pranker.3748:

None of them have a weekly cap. I bet hell would break loose if you saw 1 win per map per week cap in sPvP
And what you mentioned just supports the whole idea to remove the cap or introduce better rewards. Much easier content (dungeons/fotm) have daily rewards which in most cases are better than weekly raid rewards (except if you get really lucky with ghostly infusion and that’s a once in a life occurrance). So easy content = daily restrictions = more profit vs. raids = weekly cap = medium/low worth of loot and re-runs = kitten.

In most MMO’s I played, raids were on weekly/monthly timers so…… if you want to compare raids to raids, it makes sense

Dominik.5162:

I don’t think the rewards are necessarily bad when you defeat a raid boss the first time for the weak, the weekly lockout is quite annoying tbh.
And if you want to help out guildies/help pugs get their kills you even have to pay for it basically as food and stuff cost alot.
Instead of a weekly lockout have the possibility to complete the raid with 3 different characters per week to get full rewards on each of these characters (Legendary insight only once per boss a week).
Guilds who run raids more than once a week get rewarded, and you have an incentive to help out pugs/the guildie who had a tight schedule this week and still needs kills without loosing gold.
It would also be an incentive for players to learn more than 1 class.

The only place i saw food used other than WvW (which uses different food), is raids. In fracts you really don’t need food unless you are struggling, even then, you can use fractal potions. So the price of food would raise if raids were more profitable

Take my opinion with a grain of salt and from a non raider but i feel like raid rewards as they are now are fine.

I find it interesting how much people dislike idea of buffing the low rewards of the (debatably) most challenging PvE content in the game when they do not mind the crazy and rather easy multi-loot method and even go to great lengths to justify this amount of loot (check the recent discussions about that topic).
We seem to forget how raids are actually a pretty big money sink until you can consistenly kill most bosses without too many tries. You usually have to farm gold outside of raids to be able to efford the best food. Like the only content in the game where this is the case.

The idea of being punished for helping friends and even strangers by clearing the raid multiple times per week is kind of sad and doesn’t really fit Guild Wars 2. Even then we still do 2-3 full-clears each week to help others. Most don’t, though.
Better rewards and more so rewards for re-runs would give quite a few raids a reason to do multiple clears and even bring along those less experienced for obviousy reasons.

pranker.3748:

What is impacting it is the amount of people that farm Tarir Multi loot every day. 30-70 ectos per 15minutes of work is too much if you ask me.

Oh, on that i fully agree. It’s way too much. If that amount of rewards has been coming from an equally easy non-HoT content, it would have been nerfed long ago. Remember, that the previous example, SW chest farm (which pre-nerfs wasn’t coming even close to the current Tarir multi reward levels) got nerfed within weeks, and has been nerfed directly and indirectly several times more after that.

The only reason i can think of why TML is being left alone is to inflate the HoT maps participation rates.

While i don’t agree that more challenging content should be automatically more rewarding, no content should be reward-wise so out of synch with the rest of the game as TML is now.

I hate feeling forced to do tarir multi loot at least once per day to not feel like leaving a lot of materials/gold on the table
So I agree with nerfing tarir multiloot instead of buffing other content. Make each chest only lootable once per 2hours (so you can loot them again next Tarir if you wish).

Henry.5713:

I find it interesting how much people dislike idea of buffing the low rewards of the (debatably) most challenging PvE content in the game when they do not mind the crazy and rather easy multi-loot method and even go to great lengths to justify this amount of loot (check the recent discussions about that topic).
We seem to forget how raids are actually a pretty big money sink until you can consistenly kill most bosses without too many tries. You usually have to farm gold outside of raids to be able to efford the best food. Like the only content in the game where this is the case.

The idea of being punished for helping friends and even strangers by clearing the raid multiple times per week is kind of sad and doesn’t really fit Guild Wars 2. Even then we still do 2-3 full-clears each week to help others. Most don’t, though.
Better rewards and more so rewards for re-runs would give quite a few raids a reason to do multiple clears and even bring along those less experienced for obviousy reasons.

I know what you mean. Before I retired, as in getting every reward there is in raids, I usually run full clears like 3 times a week to help other friends or guilds. The spare runs I do to help actually loses me money because a lot of consumables is just expensive to make or buy. The chrono sharpening stones cost so much to make and the condi crystal is quite expensive too.

That’s basically why this request to buff raid re-run rewards was made in the first place. Absolute trash rewards for 2nd/3rd+ kills, while 1st weekly kill isn’t profitable as well. Yesterday for example when we did a weekly clear, there were 3 or 4 people who didn’t get anything but worthless exotics for one whole month in a row. I believe we had 0 ascended armor drops as a group and only 2 asc weapons.
I’m fine with kittenty drops, fractals are basically the same, but something has to be done with this weekly cap.

Can we get some feedback or Anet thoughts on the matter from any of the devs?

LeeLoo.6287:

Can we get some feedback or Anet thoughts on the matter from any of the devs?

They can’t do that; it would have sweeping repercussions. All we can do is hope that they’re hearing and make adjustments accordingly.

Rising Dusk.2408:

LeeLoo.6287:

Can we get some feedback or Anet thoughts on the matter from any of the devs?

They can’t do that; it would have sweeping repercussions. All we can do is hope that they’re hearing and make adjustments accordingly.

They seem pretty active to take the credit when some die-hard blush blush fans are projecting them into heaven because of random cosmetics or similar gameplay-irrelevant items.

The thing is that responding to a controversial topic as Rising mentioned would potentially have the playerbase quoting it as a source, leaving expectations high or misplaced and could backfire.

Whereas responding to a simple ‘Thank you Arenanet’ thread is harmless. I get the feeling many devs do want to communicate more, but it is very hard to phrase ‘We are definitely improving raid rewards’ without some sort of backlash somewhere, a controversy popping up, speculation, the usual.

RIP hope of dev reply 2016

LeeLoo.6287:

runeblade.7514:

pranker.3748:

Shylock.4653:

pranker.3748:

same way as you don’t get capped at 1 PvP win.

sPvP has a daily coin reward cap.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Structured_PvP#Rewards

Many other content (dungeons, open world …) has daily reward caps as well.

None of them have a weekly cap. I bet hell would break loose if you saw 1 win per map per week cap in sPvP
And what you mentioned just supports the whole idea to remove the cap or introduce better rewards. Much easier content (dungeons/fotm) have daily rewards which in most cases are better than weekly raid rewards (except if you get really lucky with ghostly infusion and that’s a once in a life occurrance). So easy content = daily restrictions = more profit vs. raids = weekly cap = medium/low worth of loot and re-runs = kitten.

Guild mission.

Right now you are comparing 2 different universes of content. One is high end elite content while other is there to allow some sort of progression for guilds same way as you have level progression with hearths, poi’s, vistas, etc.

I am sad to break it to you but what ever you tried to do failed miserably.

And PvP, WvW, Fractals, dungeons and whatever is being compared to are different universes to raids.

Actually Dungeons<Fotm<Raids are instanced end-game PvE content – same universe. And comparing rewards among them is nothing odd, given the fact currently fotm and dungeons offer better, partially unlimited rewards than the ’’top’’ end-game pve content.

Comparisons between PvP and WvW were made to show how different aspects of the game and their elite ‘’end-game’’ (ranked/eb) have their rewards unlimited or at max daily limited. While on the other hand we know the situation with raids.

Bringing Guild Missions into this debate is like bringing up a DPS test golem from Heart of the mists into PvE reward discussion.

Honestly if you read what people had to say in this post you would have understood.