Guild Wars 2

Seriously?
So first they nerf dungeons, nerf fractals, then combine the two rewards and give those out on a weekly basis(instead of daily) locked behind ‘challenged hard to overcome’ content.

Raids are not worth it.

If your busy trying to even complete a raid it should be hard enough to keep you busy ‘practising’ for atleast 40 hours before you finish it.

40 hours for a 10G (max) reward filled with RNG and weekly capped like guild missions are?

This is a joke. Challenging content should give you more then anything currently in the game if you overcome it in terms of gold per hour, not less then farming. Ever.

Raiding should be a feat and give you the wealth for mastering the endgame.

Either its puggable and super easy and thats why the rewards are so lackluster.
Or its actually hard, but definatly not worth the time investment from a gold/hour perspective.

Rewards team, i ask you, do you want people to have fun playing or should everything become a chore/grind for skins?

time will tell. Raids were in Beta for a short short while. I am sure Raids will be tuned as time moves on.

As it is, there is a raid token system along with that 10G + RNG stuff. And since Ascended is the top stats in the game you are really not losing out on anything with raids being what they are on paper today. Once you are in full ascended stats, all thats left is how you look (FashionWars2: Heart of Thorns Edition).

So really, even with raids, we will all be back to what the game was at the time HoT was announced. Just with less ways to earn good Gold to convert to Gems for the once a month(If that) Gem store item that may find its way into your account.

Personally, I am looking at raids as a thing to DO in the game. rewards are a 2nd or 3rd notch below the activity itself. The way I look at it, Ill raid on 1-2 main characters, get them all equipped in ascended and then after they are done, move to my next 1-2 main characters for that quarter (I am thinking 3 months per character to be full equipped for the harder wings?)

I am looking for more achievement Points (Id like to get my full radiant set), Mastery Points (we need more!) Skins and Minis. Gear, stats, and that kinda stuff is not nearly as important here.

As for Gold, I have other ways to farm for gold. So thats hardly an issue here. For me its finding interesting things to do in the game. As it is, I have Elite specs on 7 more toons to complete + map exportation in HoT on them. Teq, Map Metas in HoT, and the Mouth to kill. Mix Raids into that and now I have a full week of things I can switch it up with. rather then the same old crap night in and night out.

I am no longer doing the world boss train, Though I do Jormag and Shatterer if they are up when I login before Teq, I am no longer working on Map completion, and I don’t farm Champ bags anymore. And I would like to keep it that way.

Though I do miss a good dungeon run, but the rewards do not justify the time and frustration with other players there anymore.

I completely agree with Sirsquishy. Sure, the monetary rewards may not be all that high, but then go do something else. I have waited for raids a long time and I’m extremely pleased that Anet is finally making a concerted effort to add lasting endgame content.

UnbentMars.9126:

I completely agree with Sirsquishy. Sure, the monetary rewards may not be all that high, but then go do something else. I have waited for raids a long time and I’m extremely pleased that Anet is finally making a concerted effort to add lasting endgame content.

I could not agree with you more.

I think old school GW2 players are going to be pleased with the raids. Personally I am hoping that ‘pro-raiders’ from other games get hooked on raids in GW2, as we could use an experienced raiding community.

But the lack of Gear progression is going to throw a lot of those ‘pro-raiders’ away from GW2 as they wont feel as they are getting as much from the experience as they normally do in other games.

so its a double edged sword :-)

where you get those 10g from?
blog post says 2g weekly…

SuinegTsol.1729:

where you get those 10g from?
blog post says 2g weekly…

It’s 2g per boss per week, and if it’s the most recent content it’s 4g per boss. I don’t know where 10 came from, but in the first raid wing it would be 12g per week.

depending on the time investment to learn and fine tune down into speed runs, this will not be anything CLOSE to comparable to ANY train we currently have… I think Anet thinks we are suckers….

Carrot here isn’t gold. Its unique skins and legendary armor precursors. And probably ascended drops. Also, since when is ‘fun playing’ has to equal monetary reward?

The amount of gold entering the system from dungeons was silly. The whole point of the change was to rebalance the economy with lower gold influx. If raids were showering us with gold, it would have simply shifted the source of gold influx, not reduced it.

The key question is: how fun the encounters will be, how good are non monetary rewards and how long will the raids take to complete. If the raids will take 10+ hours for 10g and 5% chance at ascended with 0.1% chance at unique skins, they’ll die quicker than high level fractals.

Wouldn’t the best way for reducing the influx of gold being them stop selling it for real money? The economy is based on them being able to throw an infinite amount of gold into the economy at any given time. Thus to balance that we don’t get rewarded for anything.

Welfare.7084:

Wouldn’t the best way for reducing the influx of gold being them stop selling it for real money? The economy is based on them being able to throw an infinite amount of gold into the economy at any given time. Thus to balance that we don’t get rewarded for anything.

The gold people buy by selling their gems comes from people spending their gold to buy gems. There is actually no gold added but only drained through this as there is a tax on these transfers. Just compare the gems → gold and gold → gems ratio, they are made in such a way that it’s really hard to make a profit by buying gems with gold and selling them later. This used to work in the past when the value of gems was still rising rapidly, which is no longer the case.

Now we saw that the money generation from dungeons clearly didn’t go to either fractals or raids, what is keeping the game from going to massive deflation?

Don’t care about gold, I care about good gear drops. If we don’t get at least a 50% chance of ascended piece per boss then it won’t be worth beating my head against a raid boss for hours and grinding raids weekly. This is the accepted standard for raid rewards in other games anet should not think they can deviate from this.

NotOverlyCheesy.9427:

Now we saw that the money generation from dungeons clearly didn’t go to either fractals or raids, what is keeping the game from going to massive deflation?

That amount of deflation is intended and was the point of the economic changes in HoT. This means gold is worth more, which means gold sources considered “bad” previously become better. That’s far easier than the alternative, buffing mob dropped gold, vendor prices for items, etc. to match and balance dungeon and fractal farming.

Gold was simply not valuable enough, which pushed people in to unintended play patterns to get it, like repeated dungeon path farming, when the entire point of dungeons in the first place was supposed to be the token vendors.

Raw gold in GW2 was always supposed to be a thing you got at a reasonable rate for playing whatever (and it’s still kind of broken in pvp and wvw) and the inentive, just like GW1, for doing harder content was for the unique rewards.

Raids follow this pattern, as do guild missions, dungeons, and fractals.

The rebalance was done to fix what anet saw as a flawed gold economy. This absolutely meant nerfing certain sources of income (instances, silverwastes) and buffing others (open world zones, crafting) by balancing both raw currency and material acquisition. It’s going to be three more months before we can really say if it worked, and my personal opinion is that they over-nerfed instances, but that their previous reward gain was too high. We may see anet return them more to the middle, or nerf the open world slightly over time to achieve the balance they’re after.

What if I told you monetary gain was never the goal of raids? It’s for legendary armor + ascended gear+ skins.

And besides, other than legendary weapons, what else would you really need gold for? This entire game is a skin grind, I don’t know what you were expecting if not different skins and armor that you can freely change the stats on when desired.

PopeUrban.2578:

NotOverlyCheesy.9427:

Now we saw that the money generation from dungeons clearly didn’t go to either fractals or raids, what is keeping the game from going to massive deflation?

That amount of deflation is intended and was the point of the economic changes in HoT. This means gold is worth more, which means gold sources considered “bad” previously become better. That’s far easier than the alternative, buffing mob dropped gold, vendor prices for items, etc. to match and balance dungeon and fractal farming.

Gold was simply not valuable enough, which pushed people in to unintended play patterns to get it, like repeated dungeon path farming, when the entire point of dungeons in the first place was supposed to be the token vendors.

Raw gold in GW2 was always supposed to be a thing you got at a reasonable rate for playing whatever (and it’s still kind of broken in pvp and wvw) and the inentive, just like GW1, for doing harder content was for the unique rewards.

Raids follow this pattern, as do guild missions, dungeons, and fractals.

The rebalance was done to fix what anet saw as a flawed gold economy. This absolutely meant nerfing certain sources of income (instances, silverwastes) and buffing others (open world zones, crafting) by balancing both raw currency and material acquisition. It’s going to be three more months before we can really say if it worked, and my personal opinion is that they over-nerfed instances, but that their previous reward gain was too high. We may see anet return them more to the middle, or nerf the open world slightly over time to achieve the balance they’re after.

Yes, that is the meaning of deflation. You should also mention that everything I do now will be worth pennies since deflation will drop the prices on the market drastically. The only benefitters of this situation are the people who have amassed their mountain of gold pre HoT and new players are left wondering why charged lodestones cost 50 Silver and nothing he/she does is giving gold.

Since is weekly i’d expected at least the double of gold amount, but since we don’t know the non-monetary rewards yet I’ll keep my opinion untill release.

The one to Rule.2593:

What if I told you monetary gain was never the goal of raids? It’s for legendary armor + ascended gear+ skins.

And besides, other than legendary weapons, what else would you really need gold for? This entire game is a skin grind, I don’t know what you were expecting if not different skins and armor that you can freely change the stats on when desired.

This hits the nail on the head. The point of raids isn’t to give monetary rewards. It gives things that you normally acquire with monetary rewards, except these are raid-only and have actual prestige to them unlike legendaries and other garbage skins which you look at and think “wow that guy farmed/bought 3000g”.

Mallis.4295:

The one to Rule.2593:

What if I told you monetary gain was never the goal of raids? It’s for legendary armor + ascended gear+ skins.

And besides, other than legendary weapons, what else would you really need gold for? This entire game is a skin grind, I don’t know what you were expecting if not different skins and armor that you can freely change the stats on when desired.

This hits the nail on the head. The point of raids isn’t to give monetary rewards. It gives things that you normally acquire with monetary rewards, except these are raid-only and have actual prestige to them unlike legendaries and other garbage skins which you look at and think “wow that guy farmed/bought 3000g”.

completely agree, unfortunately, they also basically removed what, in my opinion, was the biggest non-monetary rewards in fractals ascended chests.

Zania.8461:

Carrot here isn’t gold. Its unique skins and legendary armor precursors. And probably ascended drops. Also, since when is ‘fun playing’ has to equal monetary reward?

The amount of gold entering the system from dungeons was silly. The whole point of the change was to rebalance the economy with lower gold influx. If raids were showering us with gold, it would have simply shifted the source of gold influx, not reduced it.

The key question is: how fun the encounters will be, how good are non monetary rewards and how long will the raids take to complete. If the raids will take 10+ hours for 10g and 5% chance at ascended with 0.1% chance at unique skins, they’ll die quicker than high level fractals.

I believe that the chance for ascended was 15% per chest or some such number, significantly higher than anywhere else in the game. That means that ~2 people will get an ascended per boss per run (likely higher with better magic find) which puts it at a pretty generic loot chance with other MMOs. A solid example is WoW, with a 10 man raid boss dropping 2 epics (ascended equivalent).

UnbentMars.9126:

Zania.8461:

Carrot here isn’t gold. Its unique skins and legendary armor precursors. And probably ascended drops. Also, since when is ‘fun playing’ has to equal monetary reward?

The amount of gold entering the system from dungeons was silly. The whole point of the change was to rebalance the economy with lower gold influx. If raids were showering us with gold, it would have simply shifted the source of gold influx, not reduced it.

The key question is: how fun the encounters will be, how good are non monetary rewards and how long will the raids take to complete. If the raids will take 10+ hours for 10g and 5% chance at ascended with 0.1% chance at unique skins, they’ll die quicker than high level fractals.

I believe that the chance for ascended was 15% per chest or some such number, significantly higher than anywhere else in the game. That means that ~2 people will get an ascended per boss per run (likely higher with better magic find) which puts it at a pretty generic loot chance with other MMOs. A solid example is WoW, with a 10 man raid boss dropping 2 epics (ascended equivalent).

Ascended chest drops were never affected by Magic Find. Magic Find only affects loot dropped directly by bosses, no bags, chests or anything else. Basically, it’s mostly useless.

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

UnbentMars.9126:

Zania.8461:

Carrot here isn’t gold. Its unique skins and legendary armor precursors. And probably ascended drops. Also, since when is ‘fun playing’ has to equal monetary reward?

The amount of gold entering the system from dungeons was silly. The whole point of the change was to rebalance the economy with lower gold influx. If raids were showering us with gold, it would have simply shifted the source of gold influx, not reduced it.

The key question is: how fun the encounters will be, how good are non monetary rewards and how long will the raids take to complete. If the raids will take 10+ hours for 10g and 5% chance at ascended with 0.1% chance at unique skins, they’ll die quicker than high level fractals.

I believe that the chance for ascended was 15% per chest or some such number, significantly higher than anywhere else in the game. That means that ~2 people will get an ascended per boss per run (likely higher with better magic find) which puts it at a pretty generic loot chance with other MMOs. A solid example is WoW, with a 10 man raid boss dropping 2 epics (ascended equivalent).

Ascended chest drops were never affected by Magic Find. Magic Find only affects loot dropped directly by bosses, no bags, chests or anything else. Basically, it’s mostly useless.

Okay, then my point still stands. I think a 15% chance is a great baseline since it gives a good reward to a small portion of the group but you have multiple chances for it and its a reward befitting hard content with the highest chance of any content in the game besides the 100% chance via crafting. Add that to the eventual certainty of getting something good with the currency reward they are adding and I think this is a great and well-thought out move by Anet.

UnbentMars.9126:

Zania.8461:

Carrot here isn’t gold. Its unique skins and legendary armor precursors. And probably ascended drops. Also, since when is ‘fun playing’ has to equal monetary reward?

The amount of gold entering the system from dungeons was silly. The whole point of the change was to rebalance the economy with lower gold influx. If raids were showering us with gold, it would have simply shifted the source of gold influx, not reduced it.

The key question is: how fun the encounters will be, how good are non monetary rewards and how long will the raids take to complete. If the raids will take 10+ hours for 10g and 5% chance at ascended with 0.1% chance at unique skins, they’ll die quicker than high level fractals.

I believe that the chance for ascended was 15% per chest or some such number, significantly higher than anywhere else in the game. That means that ~2 people will get an ascended per boss per run (likely higher with better magic find) which puts it at a pretty generic loot chance with other MMOs. A solid example is WoW, with a 10 man raid boss dropping 2 epics (ascended equivalent).

SWTOR you have a 25% chance of getting a top tier item per boss. With 5 bosses per raid it makes it almost certain you will get at least 1 piece of top tier loot per full run. This is a significantly better chance than GW2 raids if it is 15% per boss.

From your example wow is 20% per boss with how many bosses per raid? 15% to me is still too low. How many bosses are there in GW2 raids? I’ve heard mention of 4. 1 piece of ascended per full raid run should be the minimum. Especially considering the ascended chance would undoubtedly include trinkets which almost no-none doing raids would need, so the chance of a useful ascended goes down even further.

morrolan.9608:

UnbentMars.9126:

Zania.8461:

Carrot here isn’t gold. Its unique skins and legendary armor precursors. And probably ascended drops. Also, since when is ‘fun playing’ has to equal monetary reward?

The amount of gold entering the system from dungeons was silly. The whole point of the change was to rebalance the economy with lower gold influx. If raids were showering us with gold, it would have simply shifted the source of gold influx, not reduced it.

The key question is: how fun the encounters will be, how good are non monetary rewards and how long will the raids take to complete. If the raids will take 10+ hours for 10g and 5% chance at ascended with 0.1% chance at unique skins, they’ll die quicker than high level fractals.

I believe that the chance for ascended was 15% per chest or some such number, significantly higher than anywhere else in the game. That means that ~2 people will get an ascended per boss per run (likely higher with better magic find) which puts it at a pretty generic loot chance with other MMOs. A solid example is WoW, with a 10 man raid boss dropping 2 epics (ascended equivalent).

SWTOR you have a 25% chance of getting a top tier item per boss. With 5 bosses per raid it makes it almost certain you will get at least 1 piece of top tier loot per full run. This is a significantly better chance than GW2 raids if it is 15% per boss.

From your example wow is 20% per boss with how many bosses per raid? 15% to me is still too low. How many bosses are there in GW2 raids? I’ve heard mention of 4. 1 piece of ascended per full raid run should be the minimum. Especially considering the ascended chance would undoubtedly include trinkets which almost no-none doing raids would need, so the chance of a useful ascended goes down even further.

This one is down to opinion, but I think that SWTOR is not a good MMO to say GW2 should be like. In terms of # of bosses, each wing will have 3 and I believe that there were either 3 or 4 wings to each raid (I’m not sure what specifically was announced but I know that there will be at minimum 9 bosses in the first raid). Additionally, they announced that they wanted to release new raids fairly regularly so we know that Anet wants to do multiple raids as well. Additionally, if you do enough of the bosses, even if you fail, you’ll build up enough of the currency to get a guaranteed loot. 100% is pretty decent.

To be honest, even if drop rates are slightly under what individuals think they should be, we need to be supportive of Anets first attempt at a raid. The most important reason being that they are less likely to make more if the only thing people do is complain and I for one want more. Even if their first attempt is not as good as people think it could be, I’m glad they are trying.

UnbentMars.9126:

To be honest, even if drop rates are slightly under what individuals think they should be, we need to be supportive of Anets first attempt at a raid. The most important reason being that they are less likely to make more if the only thing people do is complain and I for one want more. Even if their first attempt is not as good as people think it could be, I’m glad they are trying.

I’m supportive of the raids. I’m glad they are implementing them and am trying to organise a guild group. But they need feedback on them. Not that I think they’ll change the rewards unless the number of people doing raids is very low. If its only 3 bosses it makes the chance of ascended even worse. My feedback to arenanet is that the chance should be increased to have parity with raid rewards in other games. Yes I know we get a full set of ascended after completing the first 3 raid wings but how long will that take?

morrolan.9608:

UnbentMars.9126:

To be honest, even if drop rates are slightly under what individuals think they should be, we need to be supportive of Anets first attempt at a raid. The most important reason being that they are less likely to make more if the only thing people do is complain and I for one want more. Even if their first attempt is not as good as people think it could be, I’m glad they are trying.

I’m supportive of the raids. I’m glad they are implementing them and am trying to organise a guild group. But they need feedback on them. Not that I think they’ll change the rewards unless the number of people doing raids is very low. If its only 3 bosses it makes the chance of ascended even worse. My feedback to arenanet is that the chance should be increased to have parity with raid rewards in other games. Yes I know we get a full set of ascended after completing the first 3 raid wings but how long will that take?

Woah we get a full set of ascended after clearing the first 3 wings? I didn’t see that but I hope it’s true…do you have a link? I did not mean to imply that you weren’t supportive, just stating my thoughts about the greater community (since the forums tend to focus exclusively on the negative). In terms of feedback, I think it best to wait until we’ve experienced them to provide it. In any case, the ascended pieces still have the highest drop chance in the game from raid bosses and, since they are also craftable (unlike many other games) I don’t have a huge problem with it.

UnbentMars.9126:

morrolan.9608:

UnbentMars.9126:

To be honest, even if drop rates are slightly under what individuals think they should be, we need to be supportive of Anets first attempt at a raid. The most important reason being that they are less likely to make more if the only thing people do is complain and I for one want more. Even if their first attempt is not as good as people think it could be, I’m glad they are trying.

I’m supportive of the raids. I’m glad they are implementing them and am trying to organise a guild group. But they need feedback on them. Not that I think they’ll change the rewards unless the number of people doing raids is very low. If its only 3 bosses it makes the chance of ascended even worse. My feedback to arenanet is that the chance should be increased to have parity with raid rewards in other games. Yes I know we get a full set of ascended after completing the first 3 raid wings but how long will that take?

Woah we get a full set of ascended after clearing the first 3 wings? I didn’t see that but I hope it’s true…do you have a link? .

This is the sentence from the article: " Completion of this first collection will span the first three raid wings. Once completed, it will award a set of ascended precursor armor and unlock the next stages of the journey."

Reading it again though it doesn’t state the collection will be complete when doing the first 3 raid wings once so I’m probably wrong there. It will probably take multiple times.

I don’t really care what raid rewards will be. I’ll give em a shot and try to have some fun with my guildies while doing them.

On the other hand, if raids end up being as rewarding for the time/effort invested as high level fractals, it’s gonna be hard to get people together to do them quicksmart after the shine has worn off.

morrolan.9608:

UnbentMars.9126:

morrolan.9608:

UnbentMars.9126:

To be honest, even if drop rates are slightly under what individuals think they should be, we need to be supportive of Anets first attempt at a raid. The most important reason being that they are less likely to make more if the only thing people do is complain and I for one want more. Even if their first attempt is not as good as people think it could be, I’m glad they are trying.

I’m supportive of the raids. I’m glad they are implementing them and am trying to organise a guild group. But they need feedback on them. Not that I think they’ll change the rewards unless the number of people doing raids is very low. If its only 3 bosses it makes the chance of ascended even worse. My feedback to arenanet is that the chance should be increased to have parity with raid rewards in other games. Yes I know we get a full set of ascended after completing the first 3 raid wings but how long will that take?

Woah we get a full set of ascended after clearing the first 3 wings? I didn’t see that but I hope it’s true…do you have a link? .

This is the sentence from the article: " Completion of this first collection will span the first three raid wings. Once completed, it will award a set of ascended precursor armor and unlock the next stages of the journey."

Reading it again though it doesn’t state the collection will be complete when doing the first 3 raid wings once so I’m probably wrong there. It will probably take multiple times.

Ah, when I read it I must have skipped ascended because I thought it was exotic like the weapon precursors. It is a collection but I imagine a fair amount of that collection will be outside the raids, and a fair amount will be inside the raids. Good news though, there is a way to get a guaranteed ascended set at least.