Guild Wars 2

We’ve all seen “toxic” chat before, during and after raids, so I am not going to speak about that here. Instead, what I am interested in raising is the issue of unspoken toxicity of the sort that can damage a player’s willingness to raid and, perhaps, to even play the game or to value themselves as people at all.

By that I mean the loathing and unhappiness we direct at ourselves after failure.

I spent some time after a 3 hour Vale Guardian run, in which progress had been made and skills sharpened, saying some encouraging words to one of our Tank players, who was clearly feeling very down and blaming themselves for a large proportion of the wipes and fails. They left and were replaced half way through the 3 hour period, in which everyone was learning, making mistakes and all that other good raid stuff as we learned the boss and worked out what build changes etc would be needed the next time.

What worried me was that nobody else seemed to notice how upset this player was and that the damage done by not saying a few comforting words could have put that player off raids for life. I`m making my post here to remind guilds that are new to this sort of content that they need to invest serious time and effort into protecting the mental health and happiness of their members during raids, especially those who are given jobs that make them stand out, like tanking on the vale guardian fight.

Healers, tanks and other crucial players in raids are frequently blamed for fails and wipes, often with good cause, but that is seldom balanced by recognition and praise. When the raid succeeds, everyone takes credit, but when it fails, it often seems one or two people are going to feel bad about it. You`ll know which roles are this important in that the raid won’t start until they are filled.

So, for guild officers or just players concerned about their colleagues – please take a moment to consider the feelings of those who may not be speaking up but that may still be in a lot of distress after raiding begins to wear on them. Similarly, make a point of celebrating one or two players by name for their efforts during a raid, including dps and other roles.

Your guild can measure its strength not by how many people took part in the meat grinder that is a “learn the boss” session, but by how many of those people are prepared to come back again the next day after having failed so many times. It is about endurance and the way to boost that in a guild is by showing some consideration and understanding of what failure or lack of praise can do to a player.

Kind words go a long way, especially to the quiet ones who suffer in silence.

Hah. That’s what kittenty playhowiwants wanted, didn’t they. Roles?
Lil kittens.
I’ve already been told by some kitten I tried to join to “heal more” (at gorsi phase 1, people downing from his swipes even before the 1st breakbar phase, something like 10s into the fight if you didnt’ get it); this is without mentioning the times in which I got kittened at for being too slow with vg pulling. Why do you think I’m always stuck on those roles, huh?
… difference is, I’m definitely not gonna shut up about it. They can go kitten themselves.

I was really kittening missing the hate, the blame and the disrespect you got when playing as a support character in trinity games.
Fan-kittening-tastic.
En-kittening-joy.

If there was a way to identify phiw’s pcs and put a timed bomb in each rig, I’d do it… that’s how much I’m lovin’ it.

People need to use constructive criticism instead of trashTalk someone, thats something i learned from a old guild leader that did trashtalk me all the time.

Everybody in the game can do anything, even solo lupi with one finger, the difference from “Elite/Hardcore” players to casual players usually is time available for practicing, and how easy/fast they learn something, something that is easy for someone may take more practice for other people.

Instead of

1# – “YOU DID PULL TOO LATE SCRUB”

2# – “YOU DID NOT HEAL ME ENOUGH”

3# “LEARN TO DODGE” “ITS YOUR FAULT”

Try to:
1# -
Don’t you think you pulled too late?
What you think you can do for this not happening again?
Any better ideias team?
2# -
What did damage you?
There is something you can do to avoid some of this damage?
When how i can heal you?
3# -
Lets practice more and we will beat it.

talk with everybody and try to figure out a way to solve the problem, example:
Maybe if i position myself this way i can get more heals.
Maybe if i use this skill earlier i can heal better.
maybe if i watch a clock i can kite the boss better.
Sorry, my fault, missed this dodge, i will focus more next time.
If they just ignore constructive criticism and refuse to talk about, kick them from the party, they have nothing to offer to the group as a whole.

Work out as a team to improve, everybody helping everybody to improve, be open minded for critics and ideias, listen and think about, try new stuff out

chronometria.3708:

Healers, tanks and other crucial players in raids are frequently blamed for fails and wipes, often with good cause, but that is seldom balanced by recognition and praise. When the raid succeeds, everyone takes credit, but when it fails, it often seems one or two people are going to feel bad about it. You`ll know which roles are this important in that the raid won’t start until they are filled.

Your guild can measure its strength not by how many people took part in the meat grinder that is a “learn the boss” session, but by how many of those people are prepared to come back again the next day after having failed so many times. It is about endurance and the way to boost that in a guild is by showing some consideration and understanding of what failure or lack of praise can do to a player.

So much this.

I’ve come from other games where I was hesitant to play the Healer/Tank roles because there was a lot hinging on my performance, and player were much quicker to blame than to praise. One thing is criticizing bad tactics, but it was more often that I saw that players in these roles where been griped at for making an honest mistake. Unfortunately though, those guys has little to no margin for error in most high-skill events.

Even if your team did nothing but fail after fail, there’s just something heart-warming about seeing that same group up and ready to go the next day to tackle the challenge once more.

I think people really underestimate the value of raid moral in actually downing these bosses. It’s really really easy to get frustrated after countless hours of wipes, and that frustration always leads to poorer results. My group is constantly pumping each other up, telling players it’s ok when they make mistakes, recognizing our healer and tank when they execute mechanics well, saying things like “stay focused guys, we got this” and “that pull was so much better than the last – look at all that improvement!”. It does wonders for 1. our actual enjoyment when playing together, and 2. our success in completing the fights. We got our first Gorseval kill yesterday after three days of many hours of attempts and drastic improvement. Stay positive and the results will come.

It’s interesting seeing how people respond to raids. I’ve been in raids with less experienced people who are so quick to turn on each other after just 30 minutes of wiping, with a bunch of sighs and raising of voices. I guess if you’re used to steamrolling everything in 1-2 attempts, it’s not too surprising you’ll get antsy after 6+, but still, doesn’t help anything.

Another interesting facet is people aren’t used to dedicated healers, so it’s still kind of a surprise to get heals, instead of the expectation.

If you’re tanking on VG, I always remember that usually its because no one else wants to do it. If they think its so easy, maybe they should do it

I just upped my chronotank’s HP like 10k and threw scrapper runes on him for damage reduction, because I was tired of not being able to stand in ground AOE, which is basically necessary for at least a few seconds (yes you can evade the aoe but they have limitations like rooting your in place or moderate CDs). All my “damage” comes from quickness/alacrity dealt to allies, anyway.

Well, the devs set a good example of desired behaviour when they started talking about buckets of tears.