Guild Wars 2

He makes valid points of how ridiculous the LFG system is abused by Legendary Insights and ideas of how Ascended Gear is needed by some people. Can do it in exotic gear, heck some have even done it in Greens aka [KING]. And that Legendary Insights can and will be faked soooo……..they are pointless for judging skill level they are more so showing how much you have played raids but not so much which bosses you have killed.

PS: Chat Codes are fun!!!

If people overuse chatcodes people will start asking for your API codes.

Greymarch.3291:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rovutU4XnE

He makes valid points of how ridiculous the LFG system is abused by Legendary Insights and ideas of how Ascended Gear is needed by some people. Can do it in exotic gear, heck some have even done it in Greens aka [KING]. And that Legendary Insights can and will be faked soooo……..they are pointless for judging skill level they are more so showing how much you have played raids but not so much which bosses you have killed.

PS: Chat Codes are fun!!!

People can, as always, make their own groups if they disagree with the requirements.

That is what I try to encourage is starting your own groups rather than complain about the current set ups for one. But eh, its a really weird cycle.

I found Potato’s Video very enlightening from his stand points and they do make sense.

Also Arenanet heavily discourages sharing your API codes with others you do not know. Cause they are tied to your account.

That and some player’s will not be comfortable with giving away their account’s information to random people they do not know.

Can you change the title to reflect what this thread is about?

On the current discussion, this is entirely based in the people, not the system. There will ALWAYS be selection criteria to try to keep the quality of group applicants high. This is just how the PUG environment works.

Good video, though, raises a bunch of good points.

Idk, I find this guy video so long.. might be entertaining to some, but not me :P

I think I agree with just about everything Wooden said here.

Even the factor where it is longer/harder to get 9 other players than just 4. We are seeing players and guilds actively making training runs and/or recruiting for groups, but it’s likely still not enough. As much as I hate to admit it, it’s a downside that has to come with the territory to maintain the authenticity of the raid format. The future action at this point would be to have more Fractal content releases to facilitate their 5 man content quota.

Also Brazil’s Comment on the video was concerning, apparently EU LFG is real extreme about their requirements to a point of absurdity imo.

Talindra.4958:

Idk, I find this guy video so long.. might be entertaining to some, but not me :P

One good thing about WP is that you can watch his videos on 1.5 speed and still make out everything he is saying quite clearly his videos are still longer than others even at 1.5 speed but I find most of them are quite easy to get through

People complain about raids taking up dev time outside of the raid team when the entire raid was done before the first wing was released. They only fine-tuned them since HoT launched. We don’t know the full status of the wings but it’s safe to say that they were likely close to being completed.

It’s simply people complaining about content that they want not being released. I’m pretty sure those same players would be complaining still had Anet done WvW updates instead. Or how about sPvP. Someone is always going to be complaining that they’re being left out. Let’s not forget how long WvW went without any dev attention.

The thing that seemed to hold up the content drought was the holidays and then them working on the April patch that nerfed a lot of things in HoT. Had none of this happened, I’m pretty sure we would have seen the Living Story sooner.

Greymarch.3291:

Also Arenanet heavily discourages sharing your API codes with others you do not know. Cause they are tied to your account.

You don’t actually have to share the key to see info, GW2efficiency doesn’t reveal the key.

I did a wing 1 and 2 clear in an LFG group on reset night.
The leader demanded seeing eternal title, a mini from each fight and a spirit tonic buff from each player.
It honestly took longer to set the group up than it took to kill gors.
The group was so bad also, not because people were bad but everyone just felt put off right from the start as if everyone had to prove themselves. Our VG wasn’t that great and everyone just went straight to kittened off instead of just being chilled and focusing up, it just felt like a group you didn’t wana be in.
We ended up one shoting gors, sab and sloth so everyone was definitely able it was just a bad feeling in the group.
I always LFG the raids and sure the chilled out groups might take 2 or 3 attempts to kill but it just feels so much better. Also having all that stuff doesn’t actually mean you are good on a certain class or are comfortable with a certain duty in the raid.

Funny thing the main intention of WP’s video isn’t in the foreground of this thread and several posts:
Hard but accessible content (and yes raids are accessible) has been present at all times in the GW universe even at start of GW2.
It is obviously clear that players who don’t want to put effort into something (here: raids), are complaining about the raid content instead of starting to organise things.
Everyone can beat this “hard” content but not everyone is willing to.
The mentioning of pugs using high amounts of LIs is just a marginalia and not the important conclusion of WP in his video.

My personal opinion on the LI thingy: I have nothing against faking LIs if a player is experienced and he is able to handle the encounter but if he pings thousands of them and fail horribly then he is a clown in my eyes and deserves to be kicked! Sadly such things happen too often so I like it if groups claiming to ping the unfakable buff of the tonic in addition. It doesn’t protect you from getting a buyer or a lucky guy that has been carried some day but it lowers the uncertainty and the probability of getting an inexperienced guy producing trouble inside the pug.

Some days ago I joined a LFG for Vale guardian. The request was 70+ LI, tonic and gearcheck.
We failed it so badly untill everyone left. Lol.

Vinceman.4572:

Funny thing the main intention of WP’s video isn’t in the foreground of this thread and several posts:
Hard but accessible content (and yes raids are accessible) has been present at all times in the GW universe even at start of GW2.

Its sad to see that most People just ignore the main Point of his Rant and just jump on the 10 Man Thing, like they have a Mental Block on the other Stuff, like the Things that GW2 was all about Casuals and easy Stuff and never for Hardcore Players which was debunked in the Video. Reading the Dev Interview on how super Hard Dungeons are and that you need Coordination and good Teamwork for them. Reading them reminds me much more of Raids we have now than Dungeons.

And yes, Dungeons were considered Hard after the Launch, but back then everyone was bad ( which is normal for a new Game ), Berserker Gear was considered kitten by many and Range was the King. Players were Running with Green, Blue and White Gear with Stats all over the Area, Skills were bugged and don’t remind me about the Trait System with Stats bound to the Lines, and you needed to spend Gold for Unlocking Traits or resetting your Traits, etc etc

Raids are succeeding where Dungeons failed hard and adding Challenging Instanced Content where you need Coodrination and Teamwork is much Closer to what Anet advertised back before Launch then the Stuff we got at Launch.

There is the 10 Man Thing that WP doesn’t like be he also said that he understands why Anet had to do it to market Challenging Group Content, they couldn’t do it with Dungeons and Fractals also don’t have that Rep.

Whats really golden is the Quote from the Beginning. Play as you want. One of the Dev Quotes thats taken completely out of Context.

I liked the video because it brought up a lot of valid points – especially that GW2 was never supposed to be devoid of really hard content.
Dungeons ended up being easy because Anet dropped the ball on them – not because they were never supposed to be hard.

I am sick and tired of “casuals” spamming the forums with “this game was never supposed to have any hard content – that’s not what Anet intended”.

Almost no one on these forums is advocating removing hardcore content or saying that it shouldn’t be in the game. In fact, most go out of their way to say the opposite.

The argument is that, just because a game mode includes hardmode content doesn’t mean it can’t also offer a more casual experience – and that, in fact, by offering that experience alongside hardcore content, you will encourage more people to try it out, give devs a reason to continue making that content and give the truly casual players something fun to do as well.

I’m tired of people saying that anyone who criticizes the current raid model is immediately anti-hard content. It simply isn’t true.

To the topic at hand, the reason people are focusing on the 5 vs 10 player part of WP’s video is because that is a fairly new perspective that hasn’t been discussed – at great length – on these forums, whereas the rest of his points have (a lot).

I like the pointing out that they screwed up by switching to 10 man content.

I’m struggling to think of a reason the raids couldn’t have a 5-man version, which a straight 50% hp reduction to everything in there.

Effectively they would be slightly tougher dps checks, but that would be so much easier to deal with in a 5-man group.

Now that I think about it I really want a 5-man version of the raids.
Without doubt finding 9 players (as opposed to finding 4) is the single biggest blocker to the content..

Edit: break bars would need to be cut in half too..

Artemis Thuras.8795:

I like the pointing out that they screwed up by switching to 10 man content.

I’m struggling to think of a reason the raids couldn’t have a 5-man version, which a straight 50% hp reduction to everything in there.

Effectively they would be slightly tougher dps checks, but that would be so much easier to deal with in a 5-man group.

Now that I think about it I really want a 5-man version of the raids.
Without doubt finding 9 players (as opposed to finding 4) is the single biggest blocker to the content..

Having it set to 10 gives them more flexibility.

Artemis Thuras.8795:

I like the pointing out that they screwed up by switching to 10 man content.

I’m struggling to think of a reason the raids couldn’t have a 5-man version, which a straight 50% hp reduction to everything in there.

Effectively they would be slightly tougher dps checks, but that would be so much easier to deal with in a 5-man group.

Now that I think about it I really want a 5-man version of the raids.
Without doubt finding 9 players (as opposed to finding 4) is the single biggest blocker to the content..

Edit: break bars would need to be cut in half too..

Mechanics would also need to be changed for a 5 Man Version.

Also 10 Man Groups allow for a more Flexible Group Setup

Blaeys.3102:

Almost no one on these forums is advocating removing hardcore content or saying that it shouldn’t be in the game. In fact, most go out of their way to say the opposite.

The argument is that, just because a game mode includes hardmode content doesn’t mean it can’t also offer a more casual experience – and that, in fact, by offering that experience alongside hardcore content, you will encourage more people to try it out, give devs a reason to continue making that content and give the truly casual players something fun to do as well.

I’m tired of people saying that anyone who criticizes the current raid model is immediately anti-hard content. It simply isn’t true.

To the topic at hand, the reason people are focusing on the 5 vs 10 player part of WP’s video is because that is a fairly new perspective that hasn’t been discussed – at great length – on these forums, whereas the rest of his points have (a lot).

The problem with a casual mode of raids is that you have two options. You can either give the same rewards to the casual runners, which is not fair to the actual raid runners as the rewards are supposed to show dedication to learning the hardest PvE content in the game. If everyone could get it by running the casual raids then it would take away all of the prestige of having these rewards. Or you could not give the rewards to the casual runners, which would kitten them off. And it would also raise the question of why we have the casual mode in the first place.

Like it or not. Some content needs to be challenging and only challenging. Not all content should be available for all players, including those who don’t want to try and apply themselves to learning the mechanics. They don’t deserve access to raids and raid rewards if they aren’t willing to put in the time to learn the mechanics of the fights. As time goes on raids will get easier as people learn the mechanics more. I mean look at dungeons 3.5 years ago and today.

WP basically putting nicely what many veteran players have been saying for months.

OriOri.8724:

Some content needs to be challenging and only challenging.

Obviously, there are many who disagree with this statement.

Providing multiple difficulty tiers in no way alters the harder experience – and I firmly believe that most hardcore players are mature enough to not feel that something someone else is doing in a completely different instance – that they acknowledge isn’t as demanding – someone diminishes their accomplishment.

It’s either out of selfishness or some silly grade school playground “you can’t play with my toys” complex.

I see no reason for there to be different difficulty choices so long as rewards are adjusted accordingly. This can be a reduction of LI/shards earned or even the removal of LI from the lower difficulty.

The lower difficulty should be used to get less skilled players the opportunity to step into the mechanics much more easily than now. It should not be a replacement for those that want the rewards but at less effort.

Walhalla.5473:

Artemis Thuras.8795:

I like the pointing out that they screwed up by switching to 10 man content.

I’m struggling to think of a reason the raids couldn’t have a 5-man version, which a straight 50% hp reduction to everything in there.

Effectively they would be slightly tougher dps checks, but that would be so much easier to deal with in a 5-man group.

Now that I think about it I really want a 5-man version of the raids.
Without doubt finding 9 players (as opposed to finding 4) is the single biggest blocker to the content..

Edit: break bars would need to be cut in half too..

Mechanics would also need to be changed for a 5 Man Version.

Also 10 Man Groups allow for a more Flexible Group Setup

Which mechanics would actually need to change?

VG? nope, 4 in light is fight. split phase? Ey we pull 2 together anyway so nope.

gorsi? 4 people holding split phase ghosts, while 1 rotates around with high dps?

Gorsi would probably need a bigger hp reductions, or those ghosts might need to move slower.
Again these could just number tweaks really.

Sab? ! for each cannon still possible with 1 extra, don’t see anything that would need changing.

Wing 2.. sloth? can’t think of anything, still room for 4 people to mushroom eat.
Trio? don’t see how anything would need changing here besides a few numbers.
Matt? hp/bb reduction.. Mechanically I can’t see how anything would need changing.

Still getting to know wing 3.

Group flexibility isn’t that great to begin with in 10-squad raids. it is still a limited set of prefered classes for each encounter. This is player imposed anyway making it a moot point.

I would love yo see 5-man version without the pulsing damage auras though, bringing guardians back into the fray as heavy providers of active defences over a healer which in my experience hardly anyone wants to play ( this may be anecdotal, however it is a fact that gw2 was originally marketed around not needing to wait around for a healer to join your party).

Blaeys.3102:

Almost no one on these forums is advocating removing hardcore content or saying that it shouldn’t be in the game. In fact, most go out of their way to say the opposite.

The argument is that, just because a game mode includes hardmode content doesn’t mean it can’t also offer a more casual experience – and that, in fact, by offering that experience alongside hardcore content, you will encourage more people to try it out, give devs a reason to continue making that content and give the truly casual players something fun to do as well.

I’m tired of people saying that anyone who criticizes the current raid model is immediately anti-hard content. It simply isn’t true.

To the topic at hand, the reason people are focusing on the 5 vs 10 player part of WP’s video is because that is a fairly new perspective that hasn’t been discussed – at great length – on these forums, whereas the rest of his points have (a lot).

I’ve seen countless criticisms to raids that go along the line of: “This is the casual MMO for non-hardcore people – where no hard content should exist – casual/bad players should be able to get everything and do everything because that’s what we think Anet wanted when they made GW2”.

They then back this up with “dungeons are easy” except they weren’t at the start and became easy because Anet dropped the ball in their implementation. Once people figured out how to do them they became easy.

Harper.4173:

Blaeys.3102:

Almost no one on these forums is advocating removing hardcore content or saying that it shouldn’t be in the game. In fact, most go out of their way to say the opposite.

The argument is that, just because a game mode includes hardmode content doesn’t mean it can’t also offer a more casual experience – and that, in fact, by offering that experience alongside hardcore content, you will encourage more people to try it out, give devs a reason to continue making that content and give the truly casual players something fun to do as well.

I’m tired of people saying that anyone who criticizes the current raid model is immediately anti-hard content. It simply isn’t true.

To the topic at hand, the reason people are focusing on the 5 vs 10 player part of WP’s video is because that is a fairly new perspective that hasn’t been discussed – at great length – on these forums, whereas the rest of his points have (a lot).

I’ve seen countless criticisms to raids that go along the line of: “This is the casual MMO for non-hardcore people – where no hard content should exist – casual/bad players should be able to get everything and do everything because that’s what we think Anet wanted when they made GW2”.

They then back this up with “dungeons are easy” except they weren’t at the start and became easy because Anet dropped the ball in their implementation. Once people figured out how to do them they became easy.

This.

Also as WP nicely put it, the Guild Wars franchise has always had challenging content and unique rewards gated behind it. Why start now breaking a winning formula?

Which brings us to the next point which WP also discussed: The actual difficulty and requirements of said challenging content (aka raids) gets highly exagerated by the anti-raid crowd.

If dedicated groups can clear content in green gear (that’s aproximately 30% less stats than ascended – https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Item) or manage to clear the content with half the people it’s balanced for, the content can’t be that murderous hard to begin with.

Artemis Thuras.8795:

I like the pointing out that they screwed up by switching to 10 man content.

I’m struggling to think of a reason the raids couldn’t have a 5-man version, which a straight 50% hp reduction to everything in there.

Effectively they would be slightly tougher dps checks, but that would be so much easier to deal with in a 5-man group.

Now that I think about it I really want a 5-man version of the raids.
Without doubt finding 9 players (as opposed to finding 4) is the single biggest blocker to the content..

Edit: break bars would need to be cut in half too..

5 man hard content (Sounds eerily familiar) ….Fractals

Can’t market that very well for an expansion. Especially when you’re already on the we’re fixing fractals campaign.

Cyninja.2954:

Also as WP nicely put it, the Guild Wars franchise has always had challenging content and unique rewards gated behind it. Why start now breaking a winning formula?

I wouldn’t say gating rewards behind content is a franchise thing, more like a GW2 thing. You could get tormented weapons without stepping foot inside DoA etc

Never had any issues in City of Heroes with their difficultly settings for instanced content…

Rift added difficulty settings to their recent raid to get more involved…

Apparently a lot of people raid in WoW now with the lfg thing whatever…

Options are always good for the playerbase as a whole, so we need to cut out the elitist attitudes here because it’s bad for the community.

Scipio.3204:

Cyninja.2954:

Also as WP nicely put it, the Guild Wars franchise has always had challenging content and unique rewards gated behind it. Why start now breaking a winning formula?

I wouldn’t say gating rewards behind content is a franchise thing, more like a GW2 thing. You could get tormented weapons without stepping foot inside DoA etc

Not going to go through all the rewards in GW1 that were gated (cough obi armor cough) or required you to pay others to get you through content since there were enough. Paying others for loot/skins/rewards is also possible in GW2 last I checked.

Harper.4173:

Blaeys.3102:

Almost no one on these forums is advocating removing hardcore content or saying that it shouldn’t be in the game. In fact, most go out of their way to say the opposite.

The argument is that, just because a game mode includes hardmode content doesn’t mean it can’t also offer a more casual experience – and that, in fact, by offering that experience alongside hardcore content, you will encourage more people to try it out, give devs a reason to continue making that content and give the truly casual players something fun to do as well.

I’m tired of people saying that anyone who criticizes the current raid model is immediately anti-hard content. It simply isn’t true.

To the topic at hand, the reason people are focusing on the 5 vs 10 player part of WP’s video is because that is a fairly new perspective that hasn’t been discussed – at great length – on these forums, whereas the rest of his points have (a lot).

I’ve seen countless criticisms to raids that go along the line of: “This is the casual MMO for non-hardcore people – where no hard content should exist – casual/bad players should be able to get everything and do everything because that’s what we think Anet wanted when they made GW2”.

They then back this up with “dungeons are easy” except they weren’t at the start and became easy because Anet dropped the ball in their implementation. Once people figured out how to do them they became easy.

The difference between dungeons (and fractals) and raids is this – yes dungeons were hard, but they were hard for the right reasons. They did not include mechanics specifically designed to completely discourage particular playstyles, builds and stat selections (some of which players enjoyed using since the start of the game).

Raids have some amazing mechanics, but the inclusion of enrage timers (even very forgiving enrage timers) creates artificial barriers to entry that don’t need to be there – and, more importantly, punishes people who choose to play differently than the accepted meta.

Early on, Anet focused on the right kind of mechanics to create difficulty – and those still exist in raids. But, by adding the artificial unnecessary barriers such as enrage timers, they tell those players that were enjoying those builds/playstyles for years that “you are playing the game wrong,” which I do not agree with and do not like.

And for the record, because I know I will get flack for the above, I think there is a way they could keep timers in the fights without completely limiting playstyles – just do not use them as definitive barriers to entry. Implement a gold/silver/bronze reward system that allocates reward based on kill speed.

Swagger.1459:

Never had any issues in City of Heroes with their difficultly settings for instanced content…

CoH went the way of the Dodo, not sure following a failed MMO is the way to go.

Swagger.1459:

Rift added difficulty settings to their recent raid to get more involved…

Rift also adds regular expansions which make all that shiny loot and rewards absolutely worthless after a set amount of time.

Swagger.1459:

Apparently a lot of people raid in WoW now with the lfg thing whatever…

Yes, and it has been one of the most destructive additions to that games creative and fun developement in recent years. Not to mention it helps keep the threadmill going which pumps in higher and higher power creep every 2 months with new items.

Swagger.1459:

Options are always good for the playerbase as a whole, so we need to cut out the elitist attitudes here because it’s bad for the community.

Agreed, though none of the examples you gave are simply copy pasteable to GW2. All the games you mentioned have a very different type of itemisation, endgame and expansion policy to say the least.

Blaeys.3102:

Harper.4173:

Blaeys.3102:

Almost no one on these forums is advocating removing hardcore content or saying that it shouldn’t be in the game. In fact, most go out of their way to say the opposite.

The argument is that, just because a game mode includes hardmode content doesn’t mean it can’t also offer a more casual experience – and that, in fact, by offering that experience alongside hardcore content, you will encourage more people to try it out, give devs a reason to continue making that content and give the truly casual players something fun to do as well.

I’m tired of people saying that anyone who criticizes the current raid model is immediately anti-hard content. It simply isn’t true.

To the topic at hand, the reason people are focusing on the 5 vs 10 player part of WP’s video is because that is a fairly new perspective that hasn’t been discussed – at great length – on these forums, whereas the rest of his points have (a lot).

I’ve seen countless criticisms to raids that go along the line of: “This is the casual MMO for non-hardcore people – where no hard content should exist – casual/bad players should be able to get everything and do everything because that’s what we think Anet wanted when they made GW2”.

They then back this up with “dungeons are easy” except they weren’t at the start and became easy because Anet dropped the ball in their implementation. Once people figured out how to do them they became easy.

The difference between dungeons (and fractals) and raids is this – yes dungeons were hard, but they were hard for the right reasons. They did not include mechanics specifically designed to completely discourage particular playstyles, builds and stat selections (some of which players enjoyed using since the start of the game).

Not sure where you are getting this. Dungeons when they were added discouraged any type of playstyle that was not run in and die, respawn and run in and die again.

That is until arenanet implemented the fix for waypoints not to work while in combat.

People went in with full soldiers the first 6 months just to be able to survive and learn the mechanics.

So no, dungeons did not allow for every playstyle at launch simply because people died left and right.

Stop looking at content with 3.5 years of experience and powercreep. Dungeons at launch were harder than raids are now if you add in the amount of groups that disbanded or required over 1.5 hours to clear some paths.

Blaeys.3102:

Raids have some amazing mechanics, but the inclusion of enrage timers (even very forgiving enrage timers) creates artificial barriers to entry that don’t need to be there – and, more importantly, punishes people who choose to play differently than the accepted meta.

Early on, Anet focused on the right kind of mechanics to create difficulty – and those still exist in raids. But, by adding the artificial unnecessary barriers such as enrage timers, they tell those players that were enjoying those builds/playstyles for years that “you are playing the game wrong,” which I do not agree with and do not like.

And for the record, because I know I will get flack for the above, I think there is a way they could keep timers in the fights without completely limiting playstyles – just do not use them as definitive barriers to entry. Implement a gold/silver/bronze reward system that allocates reward based on kill speed.

Disagree. If the enrage timers are an issue for you, you’re trying to cheese the content. You said it yourself, they are generous enough. Your deduction is faulty.

Blaeys.3102:

OriOri.8724:

Some content needs to be challenging and only challenging.

Obviously, there are many who disagree with this statement.

Providing multiple difficulty tiers in no way alters the harder experience – and I firmly believe that most hardcore players are mature enough to not feel that something someone else is doing in a completely different instance – that they acknowledge isn’t as demanding – someone diminishes their accomplishment.

It’s either out of selfishness or some silly grade school playground “you can’t play with my toys” complex.

I don’t raid, which means I don’t have the rewards, so its neither of those. Its just good game design. Some content needs to stay challenging. And considering that some guilds have cleared wings with 6 people, or in all masterwork gear its definitely possible for anyone to clear raid bosses with enough practice. Its at the perfect difficulty where it is right now in my opinion. It most definitely does not need to be made easier

Cyninja.2954:

Scipio.3204:

Cyninja.2954:

Also as WP nicely put it, the Guild Wars franchise has always had challenging content and unique rewards gated behind it. Why start now breaking a winning formula?

I wouldn’t say gating rewards behind content is a franchise thing, more like a GW2 thing. You could get tormented weapons without stepping foot inside DoA etc

Not going to go through all the rewards in GW1 that were gated (cough obi armor cough) or required you to pay others to get you through content since there were enough. Paying others for loot/skins/rewards is also possible in GW2 last I checked.

True enough, you had to complete 4 (?) quest to reach the armorer which easily could be solo’d, but nothing else was locked behind any hardcore content. Materials? Could be bought from merchants. Weapon skins? Sold by players. Hero armor? Same. And as far as I remember this was true for all of the dungeons, DoA, Urgoz/Deep etc.

Also I see quite a bit of difference between paying for someone to complete the content for you or buying items

Cyninja.2954:

Swagger.1459:

Never had any issues in City of Heroes with their difficultly settings for instanced content…

CoH went the way of the Dodo, not sure following a failed MMO is the way to go.

Swagger.1459:

Rift added difficulty settings to their recent raid to get more involved…

Rift also adds regular expansions which make all that shiny loot and rewards absolutely worthless after a set amount of time.

Swagger.1459:

Apparently a lot of people raid in WoW now with the lfg thing whatever…

Yes, and it has been one of the most destructive additions to that games creative and fun developement in recent years. Not to mention it helps keep the threadmill going which pumps in higher and higher power creep every 2 months with new items.

Swagger.1459:

Options are always good for the playerbase as a whole, so we need to cut out the elitist attitudes here because it’s bad for the community.

Agreed, though none of the examples you gave are simply copy pasteable to GW2. All the games you mentioned have a very different type of itemisation, endgame and expansion policy to say the least.

And you’re failing to see the point in my post.

Edit- So Anet is incapable of adding mob difficulty scaling?

Anet can’t add a boon buff (see aerodrome dps test spot) or debuff feature?

Anet can’t allow players to adjust timers?

Anet can add a story or extreme mode?

Swagger.1459:

Cyninja.2954:

Swagger.1459:

Never had any issues in City of Heroes with their difficultly settings for instanced content…

CoH went the way of the Dodo, not sure following a failed MMO is the way to go.

Swagger.1459:

Rift added difficulty settings to their recent raid to get more involved…

Rift also adds regular expansions which make all that shiny loot and rewards absolutely worthless after a set amount of time.

Swagger.1459:

Apparently a lot of people raid in WoW now with the lfg thing whatever…

Yes, and it has been one of the most destructive additions to that games creative and fun developement in recent years. Not to mention it helps keep the threadmill going which pumps in higher and higher power creep every 2 months with new items.

Swagger.1459:

Options are always good for the playerbase as a whole, so we need to cut out the elitist attitudes here because it’s bad for the community.

Agreed, though none of the examples you gave are simply copy pasteable to GW2. All the games you mentioned have a very different type of itemisation, endgame and expansion policy to say the least.

And you’re failing to see the point in my post.

Your point being to get more people involved in raids by offering alternative difficulty levels as have the other games you mentioned.

To which I replied that easier access does not a better game make and/or that itemisation (aka reward structure) of those other games does not work as it does in GW2 which would require to basically make rewards for lower difficulties worthless.

Was that what I missed?

EDIT:

Swagger.1459:

Edit- So Anet is incapable of adding mob difficulty scaling?

Anet can’t add a boon buff (see aerodrome dps test spot) or debuff feature?

Anet can’t allow players to adjust timers?

Anet can add a story or extreme mode?

Sure they could, but why should they is the question?

Cyninja.2954:

Swagger.1459:

Cyninja.2954:

Swagger.1459:

Never had any issues in City of Heroes with their difficultly settings for instanced content…

CoH went the way of the Dodo, not sure following a failed MMO is the way to go.

Swagger.1459:

Rift added difficulty settings to their recent raid to get more involved…

Rift also adds regular expansions which make all that shiny loot and rewards absolutely worthless after a set amount of time.

Swagger.1459:

Apparently a lot of people raid in WoW now with the lfg thing whatever…

Yes, and it has been one of the most destructive additions to that games creative and fun developement in recent years. Not to mention it helps keep the threadmill going which pumps in higher and higher power creep every 2 months with new items.

Swagger.1459:

Options are always good for the playerbase as a whole, so we need to cut out the elitist attitudes here because it’s bad for the community.

Agreed, though none of the examples you gave are simply copy pasteable to GW2. All the games you mentioned have a very different type of itemisation, endgame and expansion policy to say the least.

And you’re failing to see the point in my post.

Your point being to get more people involved in raids by offering alternative difficulty levels as have the other games you mentioned.

ok good

To which I replied that easier access does not a better game make

no you didn’t

and/or that itemisation (aka reward structure) of those other games does not work as it does in GW2 which would require to basically make rewards for lower difficulties worthless.

reward systems has nothing to do with difficulty settings, so let’s not get that twisted up in the point.

Was that what I missed?

EDIT:

Swagger.1459:

Edit- So Anet is incapable of adding mob difficulty scaling?

Anet can’t add a boon buff (see aerodrome dps test spot) or debuff feature?

Anet can’t allow players to adjust timers?

Anet can add a story or extreme mode?

Sure they could, but why should they is the question?

“none of the examples you gave are simply copy pasteable to GW2.”… Confused because now you’re saying they could…

Greymarch.3291:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rovutU4XnE

He makes valid points of how ridiculous the LFG system is abused by Legendary Insights and ideas of how Ascended Gear is needed by some people. Can do it in exotic gear, heck some have even done it in Greens aka [KING]. And that Legendary Insights can and will be faked soooo……..they are pointless for judging skill level they are more so showing how much you have played raids but not so much which bosses you have killed.

PS: Chat Codes are fun!!!

I agree with all he said. Specially the LFG and 10 men being the main obstacle for most players who would like to be into raids.

If you can’t get in a raid guild and fill their prerequisites (whatever they may be), raids are going to be inaccessible for a lot of ppl due to how ridiculously painful the process of making a group is and how easily it can all fall apart if only one leave for whatever reason… I’ve seen smooth pug groups but for each of them I’ve witness how many wasted hours of game play purely trying to put on a group in vain? It’s just not worth it.

Swagger.1459:

Cyninja.2954:

To which I replied that easier access does not a better game make

no you didn’t

Read here:

Cyninja.2954:

Yes, and it has been one of the most destructive additions to that games creative and fun developement in recent years. Not to mention it helps keep the threadmill going which pumps in higher and higher power creep every 2 months with new items.

Moving on:

Swagger.1459:

Cyninja.2954:

and/or that itemisation (aka reward structure) of those other games does not work as it does in GW2 which would require to basically make rewards for lower difficulties worthless.

reward systems has nothing to do with difficulty settings, so let’s not get that twisted up in the point.

Sure it does especially when people are asking for easier access to rewards by reduction of difficulty. Don’t pretend this is not an issue. You are sidestepping the argument by pretending reward structure is not an issue when it clearly is.

Swagger.1459:

Cyninja.2954:

Sure they could, but why should they is the question?

“none of the examples you gave are simply copy pasteable to GW2.”… Confused because now you’re saying they could…

Not implementable from a reward, itemisation and powercreep perspective.

Adding multiple difficulties is not about only tweaking numbers (that is actually the easiest part) but how this gets incorporated properly into the game structure as a whole.

Cyninja.2954:

Sure they could, but why should they is the question?

To give players wider access to huge chunk of repeatable content? For the game famous for previous big periods of content drought, that a pretty vital goal.
Ofc you can say that they can give a lots of another content instead of that. But you know that they are not going to do it.

Rednik.3809:

Cyninja.2954:

Sure they could, but why should they is the question?

To give players wider access to huge chunk of repeatable content? For the game famous for previous big periods of content drought, that a pretty vital goal.
Ofc you can say that they can give a lots of another content instead of that. But you know that they are not going to do it.

Your complaint doesn’t seem to be with raids, boy with the content drought.

They are releasing a new fractal and a living story in 2 weeks.

Cyninja.2954:

Swagger.1459:

Cyninja.2954:

Swagger.1459:

Cyninja.2954:

Swagger.1459:

Never had any issues in City of Heroes with their difficultly settings for instanced content…

CoH went the way of the Dodo, not sure following a failed MMO is the way to go.

Swagger.1459:

Rift added difficulty settings to their recent raid to get more involved…

Rift also adds regular expansions which make all that shiny loot and rewards absolutely worthless after a set amount of time.

Swagger.1459:

Apparently a lot of people raid in WoW now with the lfg thing whatever…

Yes, and it has been one of the most destructive additions to that games creative and fun developement in recent years. Not to mention it helps keep the threadmill going which pumps in higher and higher power creep every 2 months with new items.

Swagger.1459:

Options are always good for the playerbase as a whole, so we need to cut out the elitist attitudes here because it’s bad for the community.

Agreed, though none of the examples you gave are simply copy pasteable to GW2. All the games you mentioned have a very different type of itemisation, endgame and expansion policy to say the least.

And you’re failing to see the point in my post.

Your point being to get more people involved in raids by offering alternative difficulty levels as have the other games you mentioned.

ok good

To which I replied that easier access does not a better game make

no you didn’t

and/or that itemisation (aka reward structure) of those other games does not work as it does in GW2 which would require to basically make rewards for lower difficulties worthless.

reward systems has nothing to do with difficulty settings, so let’s not get that twisted up in the point.

Was that what I missed?

EDIT:

Swagger.1459:

Edit- So Anet is incapable of adding mob difficulty scaling?

Anet can’t add a boon buff (see aerodrome dps test spot) or debuff feature?

Anet can’t allow players to adjust timers?

Anet can add a story or extreme mode?

Sure they could, but why should they is the question?

“none of the examples you gave are simply copy pasteable to GW2.”… Confused because now you’re saying they could…

Not implementable from a reward, itemisation and powercreep perspective.

Adding multiple difficulties is not about only tweaking numbers (that is actually the easiest part) but how this gets incorporated properly into the game structure as a whole.

Let’s not be silly, they are implementable…

Swagger.1459:

Cyninja.2954:

Swagger.1459:

Cyninja.2954:

Swagger.1459:

Cyninja.2954:

Swagger.1459:

Never had any issues in City of Heroes with their difficultly settings for instanced content…

CoH went the way of the Dodo, not sure following a failed MMO is the way to go.

Swagger.1459:

Rift added difficulty settings to their recent raid to get more involved…

Rift also adds regular expansions which make all that shiny loot and rewards absolutely worthless after a set amount of time.

Swagger.1459:

Apparently a lot of people raid in WoW now with the lfg thing whatever…

Yes, and it has been one of the most destructive additions to that games creative and fun developement in recent years. Not to mention it helps keep the threadmill going which pumps in higher and higher power creep every 2 months with new items.

Swagger.1459:

Options are always good for the playerbase as a whole, so we need to cut out the elitist attitudes here because it’s bad for the community.

Agreed, though none of the examples you gave are simply copy pasteable to GW2. All the games you mentioned have a very different type of itemisation, endgame and expansion policy to say the least.

And you’re failing to see the point in my post.

Your point being to get more people involved in raids by offering alternative difficulty levels as have the other games you mentioned.

ok good

To which I replied that easier access does not a better game make

no you didn’t

and/or that itemisation (aka reward structure) of those other games does not work as it does in GW2 which would require to basically make rewards for lower difficulties worthless.

reward systems has nothing to do with difficulty settings, so let’s not get that twisted up in the point.

Was that what I missed?

EDIT:

Swagger.1459:

Edit- So Anet is incapable of adding mob difficulty scaling?

Anet can’t add a boon buff (see aerodrome dps test spot) or debuff feature?

Anet can’t allow players to adjust timers?

Anet can add a story or extreme mode?

Sure they could, but why should they is the question?

“none of the examples you gave are simply copy pasteable to GW2.”… Confused because now you’re saying they could…

Not implementable from a reward, itemisation and powercreep perspective.

Adding multiple difficulties is not about only tweaking numbers (that is actually the easiest part) but how this gets incorporated properly into the game structure as a whole.

Let’s not be silly, they are implementable…

Yes they could, but not in the same way the games you mentioned do or did. In those games equipment deterioration is an integral part of the balance process. This is not existant in GW2.

I said your examples do not work for GW2 and no matter how much you tear appart the original statement, this remains true.

Absurdo.8309:

Your complaint doesn’t seem to be with raids, boy with the content drought.

They are releasing a new fractal and a living story in 2 weeks.

And that will be probably all that they gonna give for this year. Do you think that such generous chunk of content once per year is all that players deserve?

Cyninja.2954:

Swagger.1459:

Cyninja.2954:

Swagger.1459:

Cyninja.2954:

Swagger.1459:

Cyninja.2954:

Swagger.1459:

Never had any issues in City of Heroes with their difficultly settings for instanced content…

CoH went the way of the Dodo, not sure following a failed MMO is the way to go.

Swagger.1459:

Rift added difficulty settings to their recent raid to get more involved…

Rift also adds regular expansions which make all that shiny loot and rewards absolutely worthless after a set amount of time.

Swagger.1459:

Apparently a lot of people raid in WoW now with the lfg thing whatever…

Yes, and it has been one of the most destructive additions to that games creative and fun developement in recent years. Not to mention it helps keep the threadmill going which pumps in higher and higher power creep every 2 months with new items.

Swagger.1459:

Options are always good for the playerbase as a whole, so we need to cut out the elitist attitudes here because it’s bad for the community.

Agreed, though none of the examples you gave are simply copy pasteable to GW2. All the games you mentioned have a very different type of itemisation, endgame and expansion policy to say the least.

And you’re failing to see the point in my post.

Your point being to get more people involved in raids by offering alternative difficulty levels as have the other games you mentioned.

ok good

To which I replied that easier access does not a better game make

no you didn’t

and/or that itemisation (aka reward structure) of those other games does not work as it does in GW2 which would require to basically make rewards for lower difficulties worthless.

reward systems has nothing to do with difficulty settings, so let’s not get that twisted up in the point.

Was that what I missed?

EDIT:

Swagger.1459:

Edit- So Anet is incapable of adding mob difficulty scaling?

Anet can’t add a boon buff (see aerodrome dps test spot) or debuff feature?

Anet can’t allow players to adjust timers?

Anet can add a story or extreme mode?

Sure they could, but why should they is the question?

“none of the examples you gave are simply copy pasteable to GW2.”… Confused because now you’re saying they could…

Not implementable from a reward, itemisation and powercreep perspective.

Adding multiple difficulties is not about only tweaking numbers (that is actually the easiest part) but how this gets incorporated properly into the game structure as a whole.

Let’s not be silly, they are implementable…

Yes they could, but not in the same way the games you mentioned do or did. In those games equipment deterioration is an integral part of the balance process. This is not existant in GW2.

I said your examples do not work for GW2 and no matter how much you tear appart the original statement, this remains true.

Your counter arguments are nonissues.

Blaeys.3102:

OriOri.8724:

Some content needs to be challenging and only challenging.

Obviously, there are many who disagree with this statement.

Providing multiple difficulty tiers in no way alters the harder experience – and I firmly believe that most hardcore players are mature enough to not feel that something someone else is doing in a completely different instance – that they acknowledge isn’t as demanding – someone diminishes their accomplishment.

It’s either out of selfishness or some silly grade school playground “you can’t play with my toys” complex.

It is because earning the same unique skin rewards would certainly diminish the feeling of accomplishment.

How is my raid skin unique and a strong statement about my skill if everyone else has it from doing “ez mode raids”?
I don’t mind everyone else having it from doing normal raids – it just means they’re also good – but the initial statement about MY skill remains true. But if they get it from “ez mode” raids then the message my unique skin tells becomes lost.

Just to clarify, [KING] weren’t responsible for the masterwork raid clear. That honor goes to the fine folks over in [IvT].

Regarding WP’s points though, I can sympathise that many aren’t happy with the strict requirements of the LFG currently. It’s worth keeping in mind though that raids were never really intended for pick-up groups, and were designed with organised squads in mind. Given the difficulty of the encounters, it’s not unreasonable that groups set strict requirements in order to try an ensure a smooth run.

For anyone who’s struggling to meet the requirements, I’d strongly recommend not to fake your way in to PUGs using chat codes or the likes. It will be painfully obvious if you’re inexperienced. Instead, why not sign up to one of the awesome training guilds that are listed either here or on reddit? Feel free to send me a PM if you ever need some tips or help with it also.

The whole 10-man vs 5-man argument is interesting, and honestly I’d love to see some challenging 5-man content in the game.

Harper.4173:

Blaeys.3102:

OriOri.8724:

Some content needs to be challenging and only challenging.

Obviously, there are many who disagree with this statement.

Providing multiple difficulty tiers in no way alters the harder experience – and I firmly believe that most hardcore players are mature enough to not feel that something someone else is doing in a completely different instance – that they acknowledge isn’t as demanding – someone diminishes their accomplishment.

It’s either out of selfishness or some silly grade school playground “you can’t play with my toys” complex.

It is because earning the same unique skin rewards would certainly diminish the feeling of accomplishment.

How is my raid skin unique and a strong statement about my skill if everyone else has it from doing “ez mode raids”?
I don’t mind everyone else having it from doing normal raids – it just means they’re also good – but the initial statement about MY skill remains true. But if they get it from “ez mode” raids then the message my unique skin tells becomes lost.

I actually agree 100% with this.

What many of us are advocating is tiered difficulty and tiered reward. This is about the experience of the raid, not unrealistic expectations about comparable rewards.

Anet does a good job of allocating rewards based on skill level – whether it is through the gold/silver/bronze system, enhanced difficulty achievements (my mini clockheart is still my favorite mini for this very reason) or straight levels (as with fractal and gold fractal weapon skins).

I would NEVER want them to deviate from that (let me say it again very loudly – NEVER ). You do something that is harder, you deserve a way to show that off.

This is solely about accessibility to the experience.