(edited by Namer.9750)
Raids & Legendary armor -- unrealistic
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Because raids in most games are about rewards in addition to challenge, and there are two factors.
- The reward must be the best of its type (usually gear stats) the game offers, at least in PvE.
- Some players who raid look for prestige to be had by displaying the raid reward.
All of those games are raid-centric, so they should not be used as an example of “what things should like” in GW2.
In those games the reward for raids have to be the best, because raids are considered to be the most important content of said games. That assumption is supposedly not true in GW2.
Most important? Not necessarily. Raids fill a niche in MMO’s. They are certainly the most important content to raiders, both elsewhere and in GW2. They are considerably less important, or not important at all, to those who don’t care for them. They still get exclusive and better rewards, even when only the by-now mythical 5% did them.
What was supposedly not true was that GW2 would not have raids, not that raids would not be the most important content. That went by the wayside when ANet decided to try to keep those who want harder instanced content. The game has changed a lot since it launched.
When ANet decided to add harder-than-dungeons group instanced content, they chose to call this content “raids.” That word has meaning to MMO consumers. That meaning includes exclusive and better rewards. It’s part of the package. Not only that, ANet accepted the better/exclusive rewards expectation for raids.
I get that you don’t like this state of affairs. By now, anyone who reads this board gets it. That said, appeals to ANet’s old philosophy (or wrongly supposed philosophy in this case) are unlikely to work any better for you than they did for those who bought into the “best statistical gear by level 80” statements.
Weird, the reason the people I know did dungeons, or at least repeated them, was for the skins.
And do we have a healthy number of people doing dungeons now?
Yeah, thought so.Repeatable content has to be rewarding otherwise players will abandon it.
I agree. This has nothing to do with exclusivity of said rewards however.
Well, when a developer says that a particular type of content is no longer going to be supported, stops working on it, nerfs rewards (skins are not the only reward), stops doing even bug fixes as near as I can tell, the game mode will not have a healthy pop.
Id much rather continue doing dungeons for my tokens as I did for the first years post launch, but when I am given the impressio by the devs that I shouldnt, am given the impression that the only reasons the dungeons are still accessible at all are the bad press that would be associated with removing them and the distinct possibility that it would be more expensive to remove them than to just pretend they dont exist, then its hard to be motivated to pursue the skins there rather than via a reward track in wvw.
I will not attempt to speak for others who might be inclined to play dungeons if they were a fully supported game mode…but I wouldnt be surprised to discover that I am not the only one.
casual players should look into casual game mode in GW2 like JP, open world event etc…
raiding is not for casuals. it is not for the faint of heart.
Cutie Phantasmer/Farinas [HAX] – CD Casual
Archeage = Farmville with PK
Archeage = Farmville with PK
Dungeons were totally fine without that exclusive content.
Right, because dungeon skins and runes aren’t exclusive rewards. Plus it was the top gold farm at the moment. Try again.
Dungeons were totally fine without that exclusive content.
Right, because dungeon skins and runes aren’t exclusive rewards. Plus it was the top gold farm at the moment. Try again.
It actually wasn’t the top farm (with the exception of the very beginning times of back-to-back CoF p1 running, at most points of history there were better ones). It just had a good reward ratio. That was enough for the content to be popular. It would likely still be popular if it had comparable reward level to fractals (and wasn’t being known as abandoned content).
When ANet decided to add harder-than-dungeons group instanced content, they chose to call this content “raids.” That word has meaning to MMO consumers. That meaning includes exclusive and better rewards. It’s part of the package.
If you paid attention to the original CDI thread, while some players asked for it, that wasn’t assumed to be part of package even by veteran raiders. It’s not something raids have to have, it’s just something they need to have in games driven by that type of content (and by gear grind). That simply isn’t necessary in GW2.
Not only that, ANet accepted the better/exclusive rewards expectation for raids.
Which was a mistake, at least for some parts (most skins are no more or less problematic than dungeon or fractal ones, so they’re probably mostly okay, but exclusivity of legendary armor definitely was a bad idea). Though Anet actually didn’t make any claims specifically about supporting raid reward exclusivity, so they can easily change their minds at some point still.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Dungeons were totally fine without that exclusive content.
Right, because dungeon skins and runes aren’t exclusive rewards. Plus it was the top gold farm at the moment. Try again.
So please tell me were I can get legendary armor functionality outside of raid since now the skin exclusitivity is what you defend.
You could get exotic equipment from karma vendors in orr, random drops and Wvw merchants so that tier wasent exlusive at all.
Fact is that pick up groups mostly are not good enough to clear the raid or, as seen in another perspective: I’m not good enough of / not well-read enough to know all tactics since I almost never been inside the raid due to difficulty described above.
Outcome: drum-roll kick out of party!
I full clear every week using PUG Groups and the LFG System… You might not one-shot everything, but if you’re willing to wipe a few times while the weak links are cut out and people get their kittens in order, it’s completely doable.
And if you’re worried about being kicked from groups for not knowing the fights, you can always just join Training Groups until you know the fight well enough to not get kicked from real runs. If you go on during peak hours there are always TONS of groups in LFG that say training. It’s the best way to learn…
If you want to be sad about truly unobtainable armor, may I direct you to the new WvW armor, where you have to be level 2000… Because holycrapthatsalottawvwing
Dungeons were totally fine without that exclusive content.
Right, because dungeon skins and runes aren’t exclusive rewards. Plus it was the top gold farm at the moment. Try again.
So please tell me were I can get legendary armor functionality outside of raid since now the skin exclusitivity is what you defend.
You could get exotic equipment from karma vendors in orr, random drops and Wvw merchants so that tier wasent exlusive at all.
The functionality is mostly irrelevant. The exclusivity is in the skin, just like it was for dungeon armors. Which you couldn’t, and still can’t, get as random drops.
Dungeons were totally fine without that exclusive content.
Right, because dungeon skins and runes aren’t exclusive rewards. Plus it was the top gold farm at the moment. Try again.
So please tell me were I can get legendary armor functionality outside of raid since now the skin exclusitivity is what you defend.
You could get exotic equipment from karma vendors in orr, random drops and Wvw merchants so that tier wasent exlusive at all.
The functionality is mostly irrelevant. The exclusivity is in the skin, just like it was for dungeon armors. Which you couldn’t, and still can’t, get as random drops.
Yes but you can get them from reward tracks so then maybe they should implement the same for the legendary armor right?
Dungeons were totally fine without that exclusive content.
Right, because dungeon skins and runes aren’t exclusive rewards. Plus it was the top gold farm at the moment. Try again.
So please tell me were I can get legendary armor functionality outside of raid since now the skin exclusitivity is what you defend.
You could get exotic equipment from karma vendors in orr, random drops and Wvw merchants so that tier wasent exlusive at all.
The functionality is mostly irrelevant. The exclusivity is in the skin, just like it was for dungeon armors. Which you couldn’t, and still can’t, get as random drops.
Yes but you can get them from reward tracks so then maybe they should implement the same for the legendary armor right?
Sure, as long as it takes as much time and effort as acquiring it through actual raiding.
Raid rewards need to be exclusive to create a drive for players to play them again and again. The content is great, but even the greatest content gets exhausted if you have no reason to go back to it. See dungeons for instance.
I’m not sure if it needs to be that way. Seriously, who enjoys escort after the first times? It becomes dull quickly by itself. The reason to go back is rewards but also group activity. It would be horrible if you had to do it solo over and over again. People who ask for this to have solo versions should take a hard look into the mirror. As you say, even the greatest content gets exhausted. When I stumble over some champ while roaming around for map completion and the UI says “Group Event” , I often accept the challenge and solo it. Maybe next time at the same champ again, but that’s it. I will not do it again because it’s no challenge anymore. I do Tequatl almost every day because it’s a group event and we have fun there. It doesn’t even need rewards, Tequatl rarely drops a chest. It would be more efficient to do Fractals in those 40 minutes it takes from getting to the map before it’s full and dealing the last blow to the dragon.
I’m happy that ArenaNet doesn’t give me the option to do raids solo for big rewards, because I might do just that and the game would turn into a huge grind for me. If they added raid-like, challenging content that can be soloed, without giving the same reward full raids give, I’m in. A prestige reward that shows you soloed it, sure, why not.
I think many more people would test out raids/fractals if there were solo versions for them. As it is now, you don’t really have room for experiments unless you do it with your guild and they are patient. We do T4 fractals every day and our Chronomancer likes testing new things. He would probably be kicked from pugs if he did that though.
tl:dr: Solo version – yes. Same rewards – no
Herleve – Ruins of Surmia
I wasn’t advocating solo version, just explaining the need for exclusive rewards. I can even argue against solo versions, as what makes these fights fun is their mechanics and the team work. A solo version cannot have the latter and will need to see the former severely reduced. So I can’t see it being much fun.
Realistic: limiting content rewards to the content they’re functionally made for
Unrealistic: demanding content as a reward for content it’s not functionally made for
Dungeons were totally fine without that exclusive content.
Right, because dungeon skins and runes aren’t exclusive rewards. Plus it was the top gold farm at the moment. Try again.
So please tell me were I can get legendary armor functionality outside of raid since now the skin exclusitivity is what you defend.
You could get exotic equipment from karma vendors in orr, random drops and Wvw merchants so that tier wasent exlusive at all.
The functionality is mostly irrelevant. The exclusivity is in the skin, just like it was for dungeon armors. Which you couldn’t, and still can’t, get as random drops.
Yes but you can get them from reward tracks so then maybe they should implement the same for the legendary armor right?
Please tell me where I can get legendary functionality outside of gerent or provisioner tokens.
Dungeons were totally fine without that exclusive content.
Right, because dungeon skins and runes aren’t exclusive rewards. Plus it was the top gold farm at the moment. Try again.
So please tell me were I can get legendary armor functionality outside of raid since now the skin exclusitivity is what you defend.
You could get exotic equipment from karma vendors in orr, random drops and Wvw merchants so that tier wasent exlusive at all.
The functionality is mostly irrelevant. The exclusivity is in the skin, just like it was for dungeon armors. Which you couldn’t, and still can’t, get as random drops.
Yes but you can get them from reward tracks so then maybe they should implement the same for the legendary armor right?
Sure, as long as it takes as much time and effort as acquiring it through actual raiding.
Oh I would say it would have to take atleast 4-5 times longer since you can do it solo at your own pace.
Dungeons were totally fine without that exclusive content.
Right, because dungeon skins and runes aren’t exclusive rewards. Plus it was the top gold farm at the moment. Try again.
So please tell me were I can get legendary armor functionality outside of raid since now the skin exclusitivity is what you defend.
You could get exotic equipment from karma vendors in orr, random drops and Wvw merchants so that tier wasent exlusive at all.
The functionality is mostly irrelevant. The exclusivity is in the skin, just like it was for dungeon armors. Which you couldn’t, and still can’t, get as random drops.
Yes but you can get them from reward tracks so then maybe they should implement the same for the legendary armor right?
Please tell me where I can get legendary functionality outside of gerent or provisioner tokens.
I never said you could if you read the guy, I respond to he say legendary functionality is mostly irrelevant, we were talking about the skin and how dungeon skins couldent be earned outside of dungeons.
That have been for a long time false.
So then I said the should then be implemented for legendary armor and its skin aswell going by what anet have previously implemented right?
Edit Maybe you should read the 3-4 post bettwen me and the other person before coming with a odd comment from the left field?
(edited by Linken.6345)
Perhaps those talking about dungeon skins being available outside of dungeons might consider that that availability is in the other two game modes, not elsewhere in PvE.
Perhaps those talking about dungeon skins being available outside of dungeons might consider that that availability is in the other two game modes, not elsewhere in PvE.
So no reason legendary armor cant be provided in spvp and wvw reward tracks aswell.
Dont see what point your post bring to the discussion at all mate.
Perhaps those talking about dungeon skins being available outside of dungeons might consider that that availability is in the other two game modes, not elsewhere in PvE.
So no reason legendary armor cant be provided in spvp and wvw reward tracks aswell.
Dont see what point your post bring to the discussion at all mate.
If that’s where you want to see it, then it certainly does not apply to your point. I doubt that’s true of everyone, so there’s a point.
Please tell me where I can get legendary functionality outside of gerent or provisioner tokens.
Really, by the time you get your legendary armor, you’ll already have so many ascended sets from raid/fractal drops that the functionality is not really that great beyond free’ing up inventory space.
Aside from mixing in toughness with it for WvW, the only real functionality legendary armor brings is for super niche roles in raiding where you might not necessarily want to build a whole set for just one fight, like Magi Ele on Cairn/Matt, Magi Rev on Deimos, Condi Mes on Matt, etc… But once again, those are advanced raid uses for the armor, so it’s not unrealistic to have fought through raid basics to get to utilize them…
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