Guild Wars 2

Just to be clear; I am for tuning it to the maximum.
I just think the maximum ends up being reasonable overall because skill ceilings.

Admittedly, I’m not really taking a firm stance on those small handful of ‘things to be good at’ they do let you cut loose on. I think that’s a fair area to debate whether to design to the biological limit or not.

deSade.9437:

Revenants are gonna be hit so, so, so, SO bad by build locking. Like, so bad. Wow.

I don’t really see it. You mean, not being able to swap to Mace for some mightstacking? Because once you have your build as Revenant, you’re likely to stay with chosen legends.

Silverkey.2078:

I just think the content will be so that you just won’t survive without some of the team speccing defensive AND playing very actively, blocking/dodging/evading the deadliest skills but necessarily still absorbing a lot of damage and outhealing it. So the game will be impossible in a full zerker setting and extremely challenging if you have an optimal composition, and this optimal composition will involve some people in very defensive/supporty builds.

That’s where i’m seeing you want the abitlity to tank. You want to force a certain stat combo in groups composition, or said in another way, force some people to build tanky.

Actually, you can have the full glass and the tanky aswell, and do well with both. Why would you change that ? Forcing player to have a certain stat combo won’t enforce diversity.

Rym.1469:

deSade.9437:

Revenants are gonna be hit so, so, so, SO bad by build locking. Like, so bad. Wow.

I don’t really see it. You mean, not being able to swap to Mace for some mightstacking? Because once you have your build as Revenant, you’re likely to stay with chosen legends.

Not accurate at all. The Rev is supposed to switch legends around on an encounter by encounter basis depending on what utility skills are required for the team. Legends are nothing more than utility skills, saying you don’t need to swap legends is just as crazy as saying you don’t need to swap utility skills on other classes. If youre in favor of build locking, you might actually say that. The reason why it’s particular bad for the Rev is that unlike other classes, the entire class mechanic of the Rev is based on changing Legends to change your abilities. It would be like saying an Elementalist could only pick two attunements at the start of the raid and couldn’t swap to the other two.

deSade.9437:

And here I sit, wishing for mini instances in which you can solo epic bosses without having to do half a dungeon full of crappy hp bags just to get to your favourite encounter…

Why they didn’t leave the gauntlet open is beyond me. kitten the story, kitten immersion (not like there’s much of that in GW2 anyway)…Let us have something to do! What good is story consistency (aside: lol, like that matters, PS was missing chapters and out of order for the better part of a year before they updated that JSON file…) when no one plays because they’re bored to tears?

I’m not sure why they’ve insisted on shooting themselves in the face with temporary content. Hopefully they’ve learned their lesson about that.

Kordash.2197:

Actually, you can have the full glass and the tanky aswell, and do well with both. Why would you change that ? Forcing player to have a certain stat combo won’t enforce diversity.

This. The ‘lack of gear diversity’ is a good thing. One of the best parts of GW2’s combat system is that you don’t need to lug around multiple gear sets — your build comes from traits, which don’t waste inventory space.

I’ve never understood why people think requiring multiple gear sets to complete content would be a good thing. It sounds like a giant pain in the kitten tbh.

dlonie.6547:

Kordash.2197:

Actually, you can have the full glass and the tanky aswell, and do well with both. Why would you change that ? Forcing player to have a certain stat combo won’t enforce diversity.

This. The ‘lack of gear diversity’ is a good thing. One of the best parts of GW2’s combat system is that you don’t need to lug around multiple gear sets — your build comes from traits, which don’t waste inventory space.

I’ve never understood why people think requiring multiple gear sets to complete content would be a good thing. It sounds like a giant pain in the kitten tbh.

Well some of my mates would like it (Ranael, i know you’ll be reading this :P), but personaly… i would hate it. Just thinking of getting multiple full ascended sets on my 8 (soon to be 9) toons give me nightmares. The actual freedom of choice we have is good.

Isn’t that why legendary armor are introduced: precisely to change stats on-demand?

Quarktastic.1027:

EcoRI.9273:

Jerus.4350:

Dusk and Eco hit what I was going to say. I’m still not sure I like it, but it has it’s merits.

I think Spoj makes some great points that can be concerning, but to add, I don’t want to be stuck throwing just nades on Engi because I have to slot some other utilities for some niche situation where they go unused for the majority of the raid.

Certainly conflicted, more and more the more I think about it.

If you are slotting a utility for a niche situation then your build is just suboptimal. Part of the fun is figuring out which class can spec a util/weapon set that can somewhat deal with a niche situation while still being general purpose. Remember you have 10 classes to work with. If you like building magic the gathering decks or is familiar with Trading card games you should be able to see that slotting weapon sets/utils for niche situations is the wrong approach to optimal team comps.

To build on your magic analogy: Competitive players are allowed a 15 card “sideboard” to compliment their decks. Matches are typically played in a best two out of three scenario. Players are allowed to exchange cards from their main deck and sideboard at any point between matches. Kind of like how GW2 players are allowed to switch utilities/traits/weapons between fights.

I guess its up to how we view a match in magic compared to the raid then. Let’s say an entire wing is a match, and you are skilled lock. Each encounter would be like a series of card combos that are in your opponent’s deck. You can deal with his aggro monsters encounter, you can deal with his mana building encounters, but then he pulls out another encounter where its an enchantment that allows him to draw more cards and slowly overwhelm you. So you realized you can deal with 2/3 encounters but you dont have an answer to his third and you lost. You now have to reshuffle your utilities(side board) and start all over.

Silverkey.2078:

Isn’t that why legendary armor are introduced: precisely to change stats on-demand?

It’s actually introduced as a prestige item, with that as a perk. Anyway, swapping stats around on-demand isn’t that useful without the ability to also swap runes on-demand.

Rising Dusk.2408:

Silverkey.2078:

Isn’t that why legendary armor are introduced: precisely to change stats on-demand?

It’s actually introduced as a prestige item, with that as a perk. Anyway, swapping stats around on-demand isn’t that useful without the ability to also swap runes on-demand.

This.

Also, it’d be a terrible frustrating implementation for it.

Legendary Armor will take a while to get, and you’ll need to do high-end content to get it — which means that by the time you get it, you’ll have already had to go out and get several sets of armor to complete the content required. (If they require tanky gear to complete content)

The better solution is to continue allowing defensive armor to be used as ‘training wheels’ for learning content, and leave pure-DPS armor as a possibility by just requiring defensive traiting.

dlonie.6547:

Also, it’d be a terrible frustrating implementation for it.

Legendary Armor will take a while to get, and you’ll need to do high-end content to get it — which means that by the time you get it, you’ll have already had to go out and get several sets of armor to complete the content required. (If they require tanky gear to complete content)

The better solution is to continue allowing defensive armor to be used as ‘training wheels’ for learning content, and leave pure-DPS armor as a possibility by just requiring defensive traiting.

It’s not only a ‘training wheel’, because some people just doesn’t care about learning the game as far as we do (and there is no problem with that). I would say it’s more like a good option.

I really feel that the content should be hard enough that we all actually want to go get some defensive gear for it initially. But I totally agree that glass should be an option, just one far out there beyond the reach of most players. Think non reflectable lupi level of active defense combined with extra mechanics, some of which will have you taking damage so you have to gather and blast a water field, all while having to have persistent reflects for additional attacks that would drain you if you attempted to use your other defenses. Something along those lines.

Kordash.2197:

dlonie.6547:

Kordash.2197:

Actually, you can have the full glass and the tanky aswell, and do well with both. Why would you change that ? Forcing player to have a certain stat combo won’t enforce diversity.

This. The ‘lack of gear diversity’ is a good thing. One of the best parts of GW2’s combat system is that you don’t need to lug around multiple gear sets — your build comes from traits, which don’t waste inventory space.

I’ve never understood why people think requiring multiple gear sets to complete content would be a good thing. It sounds like a giant pain in the kitten tbh.

Well some of my mates would like it (Ranael, i know you’ll be reading this :P), but personaly… i would hate it. Just thinking of getting multiple full ascended sets on my 8 (soon to be 9) toons give me nightmares. The actual freedom of choice we have is good.

Boss has called ? ;-)
Actually I don t think everyone should have all stats combo with him but I don t find it a problem to ask people to have lets say a high Hp or toughness set as safety if one boss requires someone to control aggro. Not tanking but just make him go at the place you want with better control. Those are mechanisms already available in the game so why not use them ?

(Would like to be more explicit but from my phone it is too long to answer… I hope I ll catch the thread this week end )

Some more info: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/designing-challenging-content/

ONE. Ok? I can compromise up to ONE additional gearset for my chars – my heavy one for guard and rev and maybe I may feel like cashing out a light healing/cele set, and ONLY if it’s optional for increased safety/efficiency. That’s it. Deal?
(omg if they bring back tanking I swear to god imma hunt down all the godkitten phiw excuse of people in this thread and end them)

deSade.9437:

ONE. Ok? I can compromise up to ONE additional gearset for my chars – my heavy one for guard and rev and maybe I may feel like cashing out a light healing/cele set, and ONLY if it’s optional for increased safety/efficiency. That’s it. Deal?
(omg if they bring back tanking I swear to god imma hunt down all the godkitten phiw excuse of people in this thread and end them)

Nope, done deal, “damage mitigation” will be important… mitigation…

I think the only relevant alternative gearset will be Sinister for condition builds. They seem to indicate that tanking may be a thing, and we’ll be the judges of that when we see it, but at a minimum a Warrior with Endure Pain/Defiant Stance/Shield Stance can do a lot to take hits before needing to resort to passive defense.

“and damage mitigation for your profession will be vital to your success. "

As a passionate masochistic necro i feel its about time i bring up the lack of actual damage negation necros have once again. Seeing as it might be quite a big class exclusion culprit (not that we didnt already have that problem).

They seriously need a shroud trait for defense in SR.

Shroud Carapace
You take no damage from attacks and conditions for 2 seconds when you enter shroud.

GOD. If tanking become a required thing, i swear i’m going to coldly murdrer every PHIW/trinity-wanna-be i met. With all my fractals spoons. AND AGAIN, AND AGAIN, AND AGAIN.

and they most assuredly will enrage if you take too long to kill them

Enrage timer confirmed.

I wonder how big the drop in reward is after the weekly raid completion. Are the fancy items limited by weeks, or do we still get gold/other currencies for multiple completions?

Rising Dusk.2408:

They seriously need a shroud trait for defense in SR.

Shroud Carapace
You take no damage from attacks and conditions for 2 seconds when you enter shroud.

So much needed. It’s just insane how far the gap is in active defenses.

They did reference toughness gear and using it to take hits. Will they be strengthening the agro advantage of toughness gear? because as is, while it has some strength it’s far from consistent. I take it we’ll be doing a lot of range damage to stay away from the melee hits that you need defensive gear for?

Ehh, I should stop thinking about it, just wait to see it, my hype and positive outlook is gone.

Jerus.4350:

They did reference toughness gear and using it to take hits. Will they be strengthening the agro advantage of toughness gear? because as is, while it has some strength it’s far from consistent. I take it we’ll be doing a lot of range damage to stay away from the melee hits that you need defensive gear for?

Ehh, I should stop thinking about it, just wait to see it, my hype and positive outlook is gone.

Maybe we can body block projectiles easier >:)

SlyDevil.3952:

Jerus.4350:

They did reference toughness gear and using it to take hits. Will they be strengthening the agro advantage of toughness gear? because as is, while it has some strength it’s far from consistent. I take it we’ll be doing a lot of range damage to stay away from the melee hits that you need defensive gear for?

Ehh, I should stop thinking about it, just wait to see it, my hype and positive outlook is gone.

Maybe we can body block projectiles easier >:)

Bodyblocking rushing teragriffs?

Actual aggro management systems would be nice. Especially if they expect us to use tank mechanics….

But it looks like that’s what taunt was for, and as far as I remember, only one of the professions gets taunt, right?

dlonie.6547:

But it looks like that’s what taunt was for, and as far as I remember, only one of the professions gets taunt, right?

Warrior’s elite specialization gets a 2 second Taunt at melee range when activating Berserk in addition to the Ranger’s Taunt on F2. Revenant also has the chains skill on Jalis.

Rising Dusk.2408:

dlonie.6547:

But it looks like that’s what taunt was for, and as far as I remember, only one of the professions gets taunt, right?

Warrior’s elite specialization gets a 2 second Taunt at melee range when activating Berserk in addition to the Ranger’s Taunt on F2. Revenant also has the chains skill on Jalis.

Black bear meta. :^)

SlyDevil.3952:

Jerus.4350:

They did reference toughness gear and using it to take hits. Will they be strengthening the agro advantage of toughness gear? because as is, while it has some strength it’s far from consistent. I take it we’ll be doing a lot of range damage to stay away from the melee hits that you need defensive gear for?

Ehh, I should stop thinking about it, just wait to see it, my hype and positive outlook is gone.

Maybe we can body block projectiles easier >:)

You mean throwing asuras to block projectiles ? That’s harsh u_u

Oh shoot, sorry.
Meant to say ‘maximum tier’ in my previous post. Dang it, brain.

Most of this blogpost seemed pretty clear, and I’m sure I’ll yammer on about it once I’ve had more time to parse my thoughts. But there was one area I was curious how other people read: But these event encounters are only part of it, because every raid needs bosses.

Does that means Raids have a cadence like:
Event; Boss; Event; Boss; Event; Boss

Instead of Dungeon’s:
Trash; Boss; Trash/Maybe Event; Boss; Trash; Boss
?

Isn’t that the typical cadence of things? Trash is called trash not just because it goes down easy or that you get bad loot typically, it’s because it’s simply filler. They’re just trying to space out the events (event being boss or some neat gimmicky puzzle type thing, maybe both).

Well, yes.
It’s probably still going to follow the whole: excitement-break-higher excitement-break-climax thing.

But I’m more excited by the possibility that the ‘breaks’ might be comprised solely of planned Events, and the whole concept of flocks of tethered hp-sponge roadbumps is done away with entirely.

Kinda new to this party, kitten WvW.

Granted I only skimmed the thread. But I would like to see more use of Environmental weapons. Kinda like with the Berserker Abomination in arah path two. Or perhaps a sword that we need to carry though and do something with to unlock “unique” skill sets of which we choose one of three different sets, depending on our party composition.

Speaking of Arah I would love to see a plant version of Lupi, kinda like the undead version. Something huge and with multi phases, only with more of a plant theme. Maybe even a Lupi that was some how controlled by a giant plant.

Just some random thoughts and all.

Giganticus Bloomicus!

Rewards earned only once per week? Is this a kittening joke?

“Rewards“ as in “special unique xxrare snowflake item“ from what i understood so far!

GrimmR.3541:

“Rewards“ as in “special unique xxrare snowflake item“ from what i understood so far!

That’s my hope, too. Some timegated legendary crafting mat crap? Ok, sure, weekly, whatever.

Gold / token rewards? Better be every time.

If you literally get nothing for repeating it within a week, that’s horrible design. Our guild is planning two raiding groups, one serious and one casual. With that system in place, it’s going to be hard to get the serious players to help out the casual ones on their off-night (which was the plan…).

That could use some clarification, but alas, these are the official forums, not reddit, so why would ANet post here?

Raid devs, if you’re listening, we’d love to have some of these things cleared up. I’ll send you cookies!

The fact that rewards are weekly makes me think that maybe Raids won’t be as challenging as we think they will be…

The fact that is Weekly makes me think Anet already knows Raids will only be challenging to the casual crowd that farms Silverwastes or Open World Bosses. That’s the big piece of the playerbase’s cake. Not us.

And if we could farm the Raid rewards daily, then when the casuals managed to achieve them they would not feel as special snowflakes because “all the kitten elitists have it already, this sucks!”. But because it is weekly, everyone is going to be on the same playing field and they will feel more special about it.

the fact that you’re playing Gw2 makes me wonder why you guys actually expect that the raids will be as challenging as raids like in other games.
I’m 99,999999% sure that the raid will include gimmick bosses, deff events and a lot of puzzles where you need 10 people for and not hard challenging bossfights where everyone has to be concentrated 100% like you guys probably hope for.

dominik.9721:

the fact that you’re playing Gw2 makes me wonder why you guys actually expect that the raids will be as challenging as raids like in other games.
I’m 99,999999% sure that the raid will include gimmick bosses, deff events and a lot of puzzles where you need 10 people for and not hard challenging bossfights where everyone has to be concentrated 100% like you guys probably hope for.

That’s quite a negative guy we got here. Anyway, it’s pointless, we don’t have enough information to judge. Wait and see.

pls don’t confuse being realistic with being negative.

dominik.9721:

pls don’t confuse being realistic with being negative.

Oh, so you’re this kind of guy… Okay.

Back on topic, i just saw Nike’s post on reddit about the buff sharing. I like the idea, but i’m not sure this will ensure a better party diversity unless each class bring something unique and unstackable like EA for warriors. Thoughs ?

Link for reference : https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3jhf4t/a_plea_to_the_devs_to_make_raid_buff_sharing/

Kordash.2197:

dominik.9721:

pls don’t confuse being realistic with being negative.

Oh, so you’re this kind of guy… Okay.

Back on topic, i just saw Nike’s post on reddit about the buff sharing. I like the idea, but i’m not sure this will ensure a better party diversity unless each class bring something unique and unstackable like EA for warriors. Thoughs ?

Link for reference : https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3jhf4t/a_plea_to_the_devs_to_make_raid_buff_sharing/

Warrior: banners, Ea, PS
Ele: conjures, water fields, Fury
Guardian: reflects, stability, strength in numbers (dont laugh, hard content maybe), aegis
Ranger: spotter, frost spirit
Rev: 10% crit buff, healing, reflects
mesmer: time warp, well of action, shared distortion, reflects
necro: vampiric aura, transfusion, BiP
Thief/engie: smoke fields, heavy CC (could be extremely important to be able to melt breakbars quickly), blast finishers on demand.

NikeEU.7690:

Kordash.2197:

dominik.9721:

pls don’t confuse being realistic with being negative.

Oh, so you’re this kind of guy… Okay.

Back on topic, i just saw Nike’s post on reddit about the buff sharing. I like the idea, but i’m not sure this will ensure a better party diversity unless each class bring something unique and unstackable like EA for warriors. Thoughs ?

Link for reference : https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3jhf4t/a_plea_to_the_devs_to_make_raid_buff_sharing/

Warrior: banners, Ea, PS
Ele: conjures, water fields, Fury
Guardian: reflects, stability, strength in numbers (dont laugh, hard content maybe), aegis
Ranger: spotter, frost spirit
Rev: 10% crit buff, healing, reflects
mesmer: time warp, well of action, shared distortion, reflects
necro: vampiric aura, transfusion, BiP
Thief/engie: smoke fields, heavy CC (could be extremely important to be able to melt breakbars quickly), blast finishers on demand.

Fair enough. I didn’t saw it like that especially for necro and rev.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3jdjtv/designing_challenging_content/cuoce5h?context=3

This guy is not agaisnt people needing to buy commander tags (300g) just to be able to form a raid group.

He also says: “I doubt people who can’t afford a commander tag will be able to do raids.”

What is this, a new type of rich casual?

Quickfoot Katana.8642:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3jdjtv/designing_challenging_content/cuoce5h?context=3

This guy is not agaisnt people needing to buy commander tags (300g) just to be able to form a raid group.

He also says: “I doubt people who can’t afford a commander tag will be able to do raids.”

What is this, a new type of rich casual?

Meh, wish I had never bought my tag.

I’m glad I got mine when it was only 100g :-P

got mine back when 100 gold was alot of money… :P