Guild Wars 2

I have 2 issues that i like to bring up regarding ranged combat. I am working on my dungeon master title and have done a lot of dungeons and different paths. I am a Ranger, but this is not about me!

1.) The most obvious problem with all of the encounters in dungeons is that EVERYONE is forced into ranged combat.

Granted there are exceptions of cause. It’s not that i would care, since i am a Ranger.

People have actively complained in my groups about this. They want to get into the fight, use their close combat skills but the result is almost always instant death. Which causes frustration and them switching to ranged builds.

It’s either incredibly overpowered attacks that one shot or spamming of 10 red circles that leave no room to escape when you are in close combat range.

This is a problem that needs to be addressed immediately.

2.) There is a way to pull single mobs out of very large groups preventing you to fight all at once. I would not call this an exploit since there are no weird tricks involved, you just need to observe how initial aggression and mob linking works to find out how to effectively pull. It’s a skill and i proud myself as the Ranger of the group to be able to pull 5 mobs surrounding a boss individually before we attack the boss alone.

This works almost all the time depending on location and how close the mobs are clustered together.

Again, exceptions granted but majority of the time you can pull this off.
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EXAMPLE: If you are familiar with the Arah path that most people run these days (i think its 3). The first 2 Bosses, Crusher and Hunter. I can pull them individually 100% of the time, making this encounter trivial to say the least.

EXAMPLE: Caudacus Manor path 3 first boss, surrounded by 4 guards. I can pull guards individually and/or pull the boss out of that cluster individually.
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If this is intentional, then ignore me. If this is however not intended and a result of the coding then it should be looked at. (I am sure the designers know about this since it is very obvious the way they implemented it, If not feel free to contact me and i explain)

Cheers | Skyrant Kagaroomouse

I can’t comment on the pulling single mobs thing, but I can comment on the “forced into ranged combat thing”. This simply isn’t true. I play engineer, and I always try to get as close as possible, because the rifle does more damage at melee range, and grenades stack vulnerability faster when they don’t have to travel. It depends a bit on the boss, for example Giganticus in Arah is hard to melee, but melee on the locust swarms is very useful. Most bosses though, it’s very possible to melee them, it’s just harder than ranged. Just because your friends aren’t good enough to melee bosses doesn’t mean it’s impossible. A very good example is Subject Alpha in CoE. He constant tosses out “10 red circles that leave no room to escape when you are in close combat range.” Except that spending time close to him is better, because with good timing and movement he won’t hit you, and you get increased damage in melee. So, either you stay safer at a distance, or you go in and do more damage. Risk/reward.

I would have to disagree with being forced into range combat as well. I’m also a ranger, and I run a melee ranger in the dungeons. Even when I switch to shortbow against bosses, I’m still fairly close since my build provides me with the most ways to negate damage out of anyone, so I genrally want the boss to be hitting me. Take a look at your trait/attribute spread through gear and try some other combination than berserker/rampager. An 80 ranger can easily achieve 2600 armor rating and close to 20k health without losing much attack.

Regarding pulling, there are only 2 instances where I felt necessary for that in all my dungeon runs

-TA Forward Forward, triple knights. Just too much for us to handle.

-To a lesser extent, HotW path 3, seer, 2 mauler, 3 claymores. And this one we haven’t tried to do single mob pull yet because immob deals with claymores pretty well. We just haven’t been able to clear this part without a death.

This is not only about bosses. This is about the dungeons in general especially the elite trash mobs with silly HP pools.

ryokoalways.3450:

I would have to disagree with being forced into range combat as well. I’m also a ranger, and I run a melee ranger in the dungeons. Even when I switch to shortbow against bosses, I’m still fairly close since my build provides me with the most ways to negate damage out of anyone, so I genrally want the boss to be hitting me. Take a look at your trait/attribute spread through gear and try some other combination than berserker/rampager. An 80 ranger can easily achieve 2600 armor rating and close to 20k health without losing much attack.

Regarding pulling, there are only 2 instances where I felt necessary for that in all my dungeon runs

-TA Forward Forward, triple knights. Just too much for us to handle.

-To a lesser extent, HotW path 3, seer, 2 mauler, 3 claymores. And this one we haven’t tried to do single mob pull yet because immob deals with claymores pretty well. We just haven’t been able to clear this part without a death.

Like i said, this is not about me, i can deal with it. I had this complaint from other people in groups i went with.

I am not using berserker/rampager in dungeons, that would be suicide. I have a set with toughness, long range and close combat options as it should be.

My observation is however still valid. Most of the time groups try to avoid close combat especially when you are swarmed by elite trash. You can not tell me you can stay alive with 2-3 of them on you. I’d love to see anyone pull that off without using tank and spank strategy.

All groups that are saying dungeons are easy do go with a traditional trinity group. That is not the point of this post however.

I find it facinating that you are confident we are using a trinity team. And yes, in majority of the situations, I can survive multiple LT.s hitting me just fine (fyi, I’m the “tank” of the group, if that’s how you want to term it). Outside of the occasional hound type (icebrood, nightmare) and nightmare “hammer time” knights (see a pattern? perpetual knockdown and getting face meshed into the ground), evasion, blind, parry, and dodge buys more than enough time to take out LT. mobs.

Additionally, most groups that avoid close combat are also the ones that are complaining about dungeons taking too long, only way to clear is to zerg, and the “absurd” repair bill. For some reason, it doesn’t occur to many that zerging, while will work eventually, is akin to repeatedly bashing your head into a wall. It is a part of the learning process. The first time I did TA forward>forward, it took 2 hours and 30s or so in repair bill. Now, it takes 35-40 minutes, and there are only 2 locations where wipe is even a concern (5 hounds, 3 knights). Likewise, we had issues with HotW because at first we had issues with the massive HP pool/mob density in the dungeon. Then we grew a pair, took more chances and engaged 4-5 of them at once instead of worrying about playing it safe, we were able to push our time to ~30 min or under.

Basically, grow a pair of balls, rework your build, and instead of just trying to clear the dungeon, find legitimate ways to clear it more effectively instead of exploits/work-arounds.

A lot of dungeons may SEEM as though you have to be ranged all the time because the time you actually go in you get obliterated. After this happens one will just stay at ranged because it’s the “safest” option. In reality there are lots of windows where you can melee certain bosses or be at a close range. Most of the close range mechanics are also evadable with clear physical cues on the bosses.

ryokoalways.3450:

Basically, grow a pair of balls, rework your build, and instead of just trying to clear the dungeon, find legitimate ways to clear it more effectively instead of exploits/work-arounds.

I say it again, since you seem to fail to understand or are not able to read. I have no problem with it, i know how to clear a dungeon effectively.

I have reported issues that came to my attention running all the dungeons available.

The majority of players however does have an issue with it and that reduces the number of people wanting to do dungeons which puts me in the awkward position of having to replace and find new people that are willing to do it.

I am in a guild that has 3 guilds because we are 1500 people on one server. From a pool of 500 i have a hard time to recruit 5 to do the dungeons. Most are just not willing to do them for the bad rewards, difficulty or simply playing style required (tank/spank).

Skyrant Kangaroomouse.7458:

ryokoalways.3450:

Basically, grow a pair of balls, rework your build, and instead of just trying to clear the dungeon, find legitimate ways to clear it more effectively instead of exploits/work-arounds.

I say it again, since you seem to fail to understand or are not able to read. I have no problem with it, i know how to clear a dungeon effectively.

I apologize. I meant to direct that at the “others” that run dungeons with you. And if you know how to clear it effectively, then teach them how to do the same. My group did all the dungeons first, learned, and now are teaching others in the dungeon guild how to run each specific dungeon. It’s a learning process, and it’s understandable if not everyone can pick up on what to do quickly. However, once you do, it’s very easy to pass down, enlarge your dungeon player pool, and get additional players that can carry their own weight.

And if you and my group can do it, then it’s obviously possible. If they choose not to play dungeons correctly (and I have to emphasize, it does not require trinity. I’ve cleared dungeons without ele or guardian. Took an additional 5 minutes, if that’s a concern for you), then it’s not a game design fallacy. It’s player incompetence.

Yemane.1853:

A lot of dungeons may SEEM as though you have to be ranged all the time because the time you actually go in you get obliterated. After this happens one will just stay at ranged because it’s the “safest” option. In reality there are lots of windows where you can melee certain bosses or be at a close range. Most of the close range mechanics are also evadable with clear physical cues on the bosses.

That is true, for some bosses. Not true for most Elite Trash when you don’t have a “tank”.

There are some great boss encounters, no doubt.

how can you pull one mob out of a group standing next to each other?

XxCoOkyxX.8042:

how can you pull one mob out of a group standing next to each other?

Pull all, wait for leash, immobilize one.

ryokoalways.3450:

XxCoOkyxX.8042:

how can you pull one mob out of a group standing next to each other?

Pull all, wait for leash, immobilize one.

That’s one method. but if there is no room to leash there are other methods too since “linking” is based on proximity to you not the mob you hit. I wont go into detail.

So poor ranger makes things so complicated. Spectral Grasp mobs 1 by 1 is so much easier.

Skyrant Kangaroomouse.7458:

ryokoalways.3450:

Basically, grow a pair of balls, rework your build, and instead of just trying to clear the dungeon, find legitimate ways to clear it more effectively instead of exploits/work-arounds.

I say it again, since you seem to fail to understand or are not able to read. I have no problem with it, i know how to clear a dungeon effectively.

I have reported issues that came to my attention running all the dungeons available.

The majority of players however does have an issue with it and that reduces the number of people wanting to do dungeons which puts me in the awkward position of having to replace and find new people that are willing to do it.

I am in a guild that has 3 guilds because we are 1500 people on one server. From a pool of 500 i have a hard time to recruit 5 to do the dungeons. Most are just not willing to do them for the bad rewards, difficulty or simply playing style required (tank/spank).

I’m a Warrior, I consider myself pretty good. I have no problems with going melee into a high damage fight. I melee’d Gianticus Lupicus, one of the hardest hitting bosses in the game with insane Aoe damage. As for tank and spanking, Good luck Tanking the Arah Giant :D. Give this message to your friends or people complaining about not being able to melee in a high damage fight, Pressing V makes you dodge.