Guild Wars 2

Dahkeus.8243:

There’s two sides to this argument:

Side 1 claims that rangers are useless regardless of player skill.

Side 2 claim that rangers are fine if you just L2P.

The reality is this:
- You can clear any dungeon content in GW2 with a ranger
- However, you will clear any dugneon content more efficiently using a mesmer, warrior, or even guardian.

I’ve played a ranger since beta, but I’m rerolling to mesmer now. This isn’t because I hit some sort of glass wall playing a ranger, but because I can do equal to greater damage on a mesmer while providing utility that matters (time warp, feedback, portals, etc.).

Yupyup. I have all classes at level 80, I geared my Ranger with full exotic berserk, and all traits in power. Guess what? I still do kitten damage compared to other classes.
All people claiming they are ‘awesome’ rangers and do amazing damage have never tried other classes. Sure you might do some mediocre damage, and you will complete all dungeons in the game. But it just simply goes faster with other classes. Rangers just suck overall, sorry. I feel bad for you Ranger lovers. I’d love to see the ranger do more damage and get a huge buff in the future.

But as of this moment whenever I invite a player and see that it’s a Ranger I think to myself: “Ugh, no, not another Ranger… this is going to be a long run again.”

And oh yea, pets are annoying as hell. They won’t stealth, aggro all mobs, etc. They’re more of a hindrance than help. It wouldn’t be such a problem if Rangers were allowed to stow their pets, but at the moment they just get out of their pokeball when you go in combat.

I just spent 3 hours in fotm 28 in a party of 2 rangers, a mesmer and a necro. they failed at the dredge because they lacked the DPS to take down the mining suit. Both were running bear pets with shortbow and questionable gear. There was no pet swapping and minimal weapon swapping.

This is what gives rangers a bad name, this is why I am really starting to question ever taking pug rangers.

This is what makes people avoid taking this class imo. Poor players.

PS- the necro was also pretty awful. Which certainly did not help. He at least had an AOE freeze for some cc :/

IndigoSundown.5419:

Leo G.4501:

this is about you overestimating healing shout warriors and their 1.2k heal that somehow heals for 4k reliably and not 2/3 being on 60 second cooldowns.

Fwiw, my warrior has 15 points in Defense, gaining +150 Healing Power. Shouts, when I use them, heal for ~1300. Given that kind of scaling, it is unreasonable to assume that even a full investment in HP would get a shout much above 2k, if they even get there at all. Perhaps he meant 4k from using 3 shouts @ ~1333 each?

As far as shouts go, only Fear Me has a long CD (80), with On My Mark at 30, FGJ and Shake It Off at 25; trait reduction can take that to 64, 24, 20 and 20. There was a time when shouts were considered good, but isn’t the meta thinking on warrior support leaning more toward Banners than shouts?

In PvE? Maybe a mix of both maybe?

But the build described, requiring 30 in Tactics and 15 in Defense, how much raw damage can one accomplish with it? Not saying such a build wouldn’t do good damage, but it’s far and away from the ‘huge DPS’ one comes to think of when it comes to Warriors, not to mention it locks you out of 3 utilities for it. Basically, its support versatility is limited. I think the point really being brought up was someone saying Warriors can do better damage and better support at the same time, which is what I was bringing into question.

LOL, because FGJ and Shake It Off are not popular dungeon/fractal utilities. Giving a group fury and aoe condition removal+ a heal is sooooooo bad. So much worse than cycling a useless mantra for 2 seconds just to heal for 3k and foregoing 3k autoattack crits in the process.

But hey, popping 3 shouts for 4k health when someone needs it immediately, because they are instant, and on top provide other benefits is “overestimating” value. Nothing to see in fury and 3 stacks of might, 10% extra damage for the group, and condition removal is too costly.

Keep peddling that tune that in order to use healing shouts a warrior needs to spec into healing power. People see it for what it is. It shows on LFG posts, alongside demands for Guardians.

By all means, feel free to offer that demand for “heal” mesmers. Saying that an elementalist can’t do damage while healing is the stupidest thing I have heard so far, considering their group heals come from traits that switch into water attunement, that their heal abilities such as Cone of Cold and Ice Spike do substantial damage, and that all of these are instant and so is switching back to a damaging attunement.

Hell, Guardian’s Altruistic Healing builds with hammer actually only function when the Guardian is dishing damage lol.

What did the Ranger bring again? Oh, a 30 sec cd water field with periodic condition removal, how unique. The end.

Zenith.7301:

But hey, popping 3 shouts for 4k health when someone needs it immediately, because they are instant, and on top provide other benefits is “overestimating” value.

Yeah, it is overestimating. I’m glad you finally understand. Using shouts for heals diminishes their other uses, like being a stun breaker or to keep perma fury going. At the same time you understate build options you obviously know nothing about. You don’t know how Restorative Mantras work, what makes any of us think you’re competent with Ranger?

Zenith.7301:

By all means, feel free to offer that demand for “heal” mesmers. Saying that an elementalist can’t do damage while healing is the stupidest thing I have heard so far, considering their group heals come from traits that switch into water attunement, that their heal abilities such as Cone of Cold and Ice Spike do substantial damage, and that all of these are instant and so is switching back to a damaging attunement.

Cone of Cold doesn’t do substantial damage although it does decent damage but it also doesn’t heal for much either. Neither that nor Ice Spike are instant either. Swapping attunements isn’t “doing damage while healing” since the act of swapping is instant. It’s the same as pressing a heal button.

But now I think I’ve talked you into a corner. Now you’re just trash talking. It’s all beside the point though, I’m confident Rangers will be improved over time. What they may lack in optimization now will be compensated for as changes roll out. Specifically aiming trash talk at the specific supportive skills of Ranger while pointing at 3 different professions rather underminds the argument as no profession is really going to be outperforming or even evenly performing 3 professions all the time.

Zenith.7301:

What did the Ranger bring again? Oh, a 30 sec cd water field with periodic condition removal, how unique. The end.

Swapping between 2 moas you can do a 4.3k AoE heal roughly every 20s (3 AoE pulses of 1447 per ally), but it requires a little finesse to make sure it gets used at the right time in the right place, but it can be done. Of course, keeping the pet alive, swapping intelligently, and keeping track of positioning also help to make this heal effective. Traits can bring this down closer to 16s and make it a little stronger, but the area is small and the moa immobile so other players benefit by paying attention and moving into the squawkzone if they are not in it. Those moas can also be traited to apply 22.5s of AoE Fury and the other 6s of Protection. If you don’t want that much healing, you might only take one Moa or take Drakes for blasting in water fields (something that can be done fairly reliably once you’ve got the knack).

• And the Elite spirit provides a powerful passive heal in a small area for a full minute provided it stays alive and relevant to the fight, and it can rez.
• Stone Spirit can provide a few seconds of protection to people in your group every 11s, but again… it is a matter of balancing survivability and relevance. Too far back and people would have to fall back to refresh the buff. Too close and it gets AoE’d. Smart positioning and having your team understand how they work can make them more effective.
• Frost Spirit has a 35% chance (50% traited) to grant 10% bonus damage to allied attacks… it does NOT have the 10s cooldown that it lists on the tooltip.
• Don’t overlook water + projectile combos. We have access to some 100% combo projectiles that can pierce… our pets can also shoot projectiles that can grant regen if you position him intelligently, and there are traits for each of us to increase the duration of the regen (33% and 50%.)
• The Guard skill can give your pet 10 or more seconds of protection every 30s (24 traited) which greatly improves pet survivability, but the tooltip doesn’t even mention protection and most people don’t know about it. Guard can greatly increase the efficiency of the pet in some fights… put it where the mobs are going to spawn, and it will instantly aggro on them one after another without ever running across the room to you, and if it is a tanky pet it can act as a graveling magnet.
• The Fern Hound can grant 10s of zero healing power regen every 25s… or 15s of 350 healing power regen every 20s. Traits make a big difference.

We have options, but they aren’t widely understood (even by many rangers), can be killed, have some limitations, and the timing and positioning of them may not be 100% under our control… all of which makes people dubious. Right now the issue seems to be how to give us the controls to adequately manage pets in dungeon situations without straight up buffing them.

I won’t say that what we have is better than anyone else, but I know that what we can bring is misunderstood by most.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/What-happens-to-a-Ranger-alone-in-a-dungeon/1596514

@Misterdevious: That’s great and all, but even if we were the best healing class for dungeons, it wouldn’t matter since there’s not really any reason to bring a healing-focused player to a dungeon where you can dodge to avoid so much of the damage anyway.

Even then, a mesmer can bring more defensive support than a ranger in most cases by using projectile reflect anyways and they can do that with a damage build in full berserker gear.

Guardians are really the only class that make much sense to run as support since they can bring enough armor to attract enemy aggro and grant protective boons without needing to invest heavily in defensive traits.

Leo G.4501:

Zenith.7301:

But hey, popping 3 shouts for 4k health when someone needs it immediately, because they are instant, and on top provide other benefits is “overestimating” value.

Yeah, it is overestimating. I’m glad you finally understand. Using shouts for heals diminishes their other uses, like being a stun breaker or to keep perma fury going. At the same time you understate build options you obviously know nothing about. You don’t know how Restorative Mantras work, what makes any of us think you’re competent with Ranger?

Zenith.7301:

By all means, feel free to offer that demand for “heal” mesmers. Saying that an elementalist can’t do damage while healing is the stupidest thing I have heard so far, considering their group heals come from traits that switch into water attunement, that their heal abilities such as Cone of Cold and Ice Spike do substantial damage, and that all of these are instant and so is switching back to a damaging attunement.

Cone of Cold doesn’t do substantial damage although it does decent damage but it also doesn’t heal for much either. Neither that nor Ice Spike are instant either. Swapping attunements isn’t “doing damage while healing” since the act of swapping is instant. It’s the same as pressing a heal button.

But now I think I’ve talked you into a corner. Now you’re just trash talking. It’s all beside the point though, I’m confident Rangers will be improved over time. What they may lack in optimization now will be compensated for as changes roll out. Specifically aiming trash talk at the specific supportive skills of Ranger while pointing at 3 different professions rather underminds the argument as no profession is really going to be outperforming or even evenly performing 3 professions all the time.

Cone of Cold is bad damage, like 5k conal aoe damage plus the healing (around 1.2k, on a low cd) is bad! What a sad troll.

Ice Spike is not instant because it crits for 5k and applies 5 vulnerability, that’s why.

But I’m the one who doesn’t understand how mesmers work, when my main is one, and I certainly don’t get asked to groups for restorative mantras. I get asked to groups for the 6-7k damage berserkers, 10k shatters, feedback, null field, and time warp. Occasionally the stealth utilities.

So keep talking, but until you show us a video of yourself doing 48+ as a ranger useful to your group in a way other classes are not you can shut up. Because so far I’ve yet to hear your PvE qualifications such as fractal level playing experience instead of you dodging the issue of Ranger utility. And communities rarely discriminate without reason despite what white knights like you would say.

I have (in order of leveling to 80) a level 80 Warrior, Guardian, Ranger and Mesmer (with a Necro in the 70s).

While I enjoy my Ranger and do Dungeons with it, I have no doubt I’m having to work harder and be far more cunning to contribute as much with my Ranger as I do with my Warrior or Guardian. There is nothing relaxed about optimal Ranger play – if you aren’t lining up 2-3 targets for piercing shots every second there is more than 1 enemy on the field, you aren’t doing close to enough damage. Shortbow 1 is tracer fire – it lets you know you are lined up so you can put the 2, 4, and 5 down range when they will hit several targets.

My ranger’s utility choices are just feeble compared ot the other classes. Warrior pets (banners) are 100% effective and 100% indestructible. Ranger pets (the spirits) are erratic in benefit and frequently dead on arrival… comparisons of their other utilites lines are similarly underwhelming.

I know they have a bad rap with the Devs as the number one choice to build kill-bots out of, but they really do need a review or even a full revamp to level the field a little – an improvment in the (bot-resistant) complexity of their game play, not just a straight increase to their damage numbers.

Zenith.7301:

Cone of Cold is bad damage, like 5k conal aoe damage plus the healing (around 1.2k, on a low cd) is bad! What a sad troll.

Ice Spike is not instant because it crits for 5k and applies 5 vulnerability, that’s why.

You’re exaggerating your numbers. In and of itself, there’s nothing wrong with stretching numbers because of differing builds and boons, but statements made without context like this can be viewed as lies. So stop lying.

I generally have a more offensive focused build on my elementalist with 95% crit damage and I’m likely hitting for upwards of 4k when everything crits and no might stacks/vulnerability…but I’m not specc’ed to heal. It will not heal for 1.2k as its base heal is only 740. Mines heals for 850. Also, it has a cast time of nearly 3 seconds. Even 7k damage on that cast isn’t huge.

And while Ice Spike can crit for quite high in a large AoE…it has a long delay (longer than 3 seconds).

But I’m the one who doesn’t understand how mesmers work, when my main is one, and I certainly don’t get asked to groups for restorative mantras. I get asked to groups for the 6-7k damage berserkers, 10k shatters, feedback, null field, and time warp. Occasionally the stealth utilities.

So keep talking, but until you show us a video of yourself doing 48+ as a ranger useful to your group in a way other classes are not you can shut up. Because so far I’ve yet to hear your PvE qualifications such as fractal level playing experience instead of you dodging the issue of Ranger utility. And communities rarely discriminate without reason despite what white knights like you would say.

I guess ‘saying’ you do stuff is considered qualifications? Saying what you main while spewing nonsense about other professions is the point of contention here, sir. And there is a looooooooooooooooooooooooooooong (loooOOOOOOooOOonnng) history of communities discriminating for no reason or for little reason to justify their behavior. Label me with whatever TVtropes title you want, doesn’t change these facts.

Nike.2631:

While I enjoy my Ranger and do Dungeons with it, I have no doubt I’m having to work harder and be far more cunning to contribute as much with my Ranger as I do with my Warrior or Guardian. There is nothing relaxed about optimal Ranger play – if you aren’t lining up 2-3 targets for piercing shots every second there is more than 1 enemy on the field, you aren’t doing close to enough damage. Shortbow 1 is tracer fire – it lets you know you are lined up so you can put the 2, 4, and 5 down range when they will hit several targets.

This, I can see. The same rings true for Elementalist or Mesmer although those professions work different niches from the other professions discussed (especially the Warrior/Guardian). Although it’s likely that one can even work harder and still get less performance from Ranger comparatively, I still think much of what has been said about the profession is overstated, just like players will overstate their personal performance on other professions.

Khal Drogo.9631:

Or that Rangers are even worse in PvP if that was possible.

Rangers are actually in the top tier of spvp as well as decent fire support/supply runner for wvw.

DeathPanel.8362:

Khal Drogo.9631:

Or that Rangers are even worse in PvP if that was possible.

Rangers are actually in the top tier of spvp

Only in specific situations

Trollhammer.7439:

Fact: rangers are highly suboptimal for end game.
Fact: most people recognize the above statement as fact.

The first is an opinion. Thus the second is also wrong.

DeathPanel.8362:

Khal Drogo.9631:

Or that Rangers are even worse in PvP if that was possible.

Rangers are actually in the top tier of spvp as well as decent fire support/supply runner for wvw.

WvW is where I think Rangers can shine if played right, excellent mobility, and can be played as assassin’s when fighting zergs if specced to do so.

Dub.1273:

DeathPanel.8362:

Khal Drogo.9631:

Or that Rangers are even worse in PvP if that was possible.

Rangers are actually in the top tier of spvp

Only in specific situations

Must be alot of “specific” situations since most of the top spvp teams have 1-2 rangers in them.

ThiBash.5634:

Trollhammer.7439:

Fact: rangers are highly suboptimal for end game.
Fact: most people recognize the above statement as fact.

The first is an opinion. Thus the second is also wrong.

Everything you said is wrong. GG I win.

DeathPanel.8362:

Dub.1273:

DeathPanel.8362:

Khal Drogo.9631:

Or that Rangers are even worse in PvP if that was possible.

Rangers are actually in the top tier of spvp

Only in specific situations

Must be alot of “specific” situations since most of the top spvp teams have 1-2 rangers in them.

Since when? lol.

ThiBash.5634:

Trollhammer.7439:

Fact: rangers are highly suboptimal for end game.
Fact: most people recognize the above statement as fact.

The first is an opinion. Thus the second is also wrong.

The first is more than just an opinion. It’s proveable by quantitively calculating the dps potential of a group using a ranger vs a group without one. Defense is irrelevant since end game content is cleared by members in full berserker gear (except maybe the guardian) who survive by using well timed dodges and killing bosses before they can do enough damage to wear down the group.

If you need to see proof of this, feel free to look at the dungeon runs posted by Strife depicting min/maxed groups of either 4x warrior and 1x mesmer or 3x warrior, 1x mesmer, 1x guardian.

And yes, the guardian can outdps the ranger while wearing gear that gives them enough armor to attract aggro and can produce more healing/boons/utility than a ranger can in a full dps build.

Also, yes, there are a ton of people that don’t recognize this as fact, but it’s a pretty safe bet to say that the majority ( > 50% ) of players understand this about rangers in dungeons, even if there aren’t any exact polls on this.

Dub.1273:

DeathPanel.8362:

Dub.1273:

DeathPanel.8362:

Khal Drogo.9631:

Or that Rangers are even worse in PvP if that was possible.

Rangers are actually in the top tier of spvp

Only in specific situations

Must be alot of “specific” situations since most of the top spvp teams have 1-2 rangers in them.

Since when? lol.

Since trap rangers existed.

Leo G.4501:

Zenith.7301:

Cone of Cold is bad damage, like 5k conal aoe damage plus the healing (around 1.2k, on a low cd) is bad! What a sad troll.

Ice Spike is not instant because it crits for 5k and applies 5 vulnerability, that’s why.

You’re exaggerating your numbers. In and of itself, there’s nothing wrong with stretching numbers because of differing builds and boons, but statements made without context like this can be viewed as lies. So stop lying.

I generally have a more offensive focused build on my elementalist with 95% crit damage and I’m likely hitting for upwards of 4k when everything crits and no might stacks/vulnerability…but I’m not specc’ed to heal. It will not heal for 1.2k as its base heal is only 740. Mines heals for 850. Also, it has a cast time of nearly 3 seconds. Even 7k damage on that cast isn’t huge.

And while Ice Spike can crit for quite high in a large AoE…it has a long delay (longer than 3 seconds).

But I’m the one who doesn’t understand how mesmers work, when my main is one, and I certainly don’t get asked to groups for restorative mantras. I get asked to groups for the 6-7k damage berserkers, 10k shatters, feedback, null field, and time warp. Occasionally the stealth utilities.

So keep talking, but until you show us a video of yourself doing 48+ as a ranger useful to your group in a way other classes are not you can shut up. Because so far I’ve yet to hear your PvE qualifications such as fractal level playing experience instead of you dodging the issue of Ranger utility. And communities rarely discriminate without reason despite what white knights like you would say.

I guess ‘saying’ you do stuff is considered qualifications? Saying what you main while spewing nonsense about other professions is the point of contention here, sir. And there is a looooooooooooooooooooooooooooong (loooOOOOOOooOOonnng) history of communities discriminating for no reason or for little reason to justify their behavior. Label me with whatever TVtropes title you want, doesn’t change these facts.

Nike.2631:

While I enjoy my Ranger and do Dungeons with it, I have no doubt I’m having to work harder and be far more cunning to contribute as much with my Ranger as I do with my Warrior or Guardian. There is nothing relaxed about optimal Ranger play – if you aren’t lining up 2-3 targets for piercing shots every second there is more than 1 enemy on the field, you aren’t doing close to enough damage. Shortbow 1 is tracer fire – it lets you know you are lined up so you can put the 2, 4, and 5 down range when they will hit several targets.

This, I can see. The same rings true for Elementalist or Mesmer although those professions work different niches from the other professions discussed (especially the Warrior/Guardian). Although it’s likely that one can even work harder and still get less performance from Ranger comparatively, I still think much of what has been said about the profession is overstated, just like players will overstate their personal performance on other professions.

110% crit damage with sigil of life….standard 30/0/20/20 spec. You know nothing about ele it’s not an exaggeration. You say it’s a 3 second skill as if that was bad. Blurred Frenzy is 2 seconds and hits for around the same, has shorter range, and doesn’t even heal allies.

It’s that simple, the DPS of cone of cold is that much better than Rapid Fire, while being aoe and having a healing component.

Keep calling your opinions facts however much you want, but when the consensus runs against you, all this bs you’re spewing will not appeal to people. Because warriors didn’t just become popular due to some post on a forum.

People went out, tested them, and liked the results. And similarly, the ranger was tested, and people didn’t like the results nearly as much.

But feel free to answer the question as to ranger utility being comparable, and do show the math about condition damage specs outperforming knight and berserker stat combos. So far you just make a statement and expect people to take you on your word just because you contradicted the majority of posters.

I am fairly new and rolled a ranger as my first character. So far I have had no issues running dungeons, I stow my pet between fights and I run a sword/torch combo (shortbow or long bow for distance support if the situation calls for it) with +condition dmg gear, and spam fire trap, all my torch attacks are fire dmg over time, and sword also has two condition dmg moves (one being poison). Maybe the people I run with are poorly geared. I mean I am using vigil medium armor and some random exotic weapons. So how much more poorly geared than me can they be than me? I concentrated on +power, +vitality equips as well, which some people in my guild said was a bad idea. Im sure the cringed when I told them I built my ranger as a damage over time dealer with +condition dmg boost lol.

I have found my damage to be far more the sufficient (sometimes even top in the run), and my survivability is pretty kitten high as two of my sword attacks have built in dodges that don’t use up my stamina pool for regular dodges.

Hell I made a norn warrior, and he seems get get faced rolled quit often in dungeons unlike my ranger who just seems to have a far greater ability to stay alive and deal damage.

Zenith.7301:

Blurred Frenzy is 2 seconds and hits for around the same, has shorter range, and doesn’t even heal allies.

It’s that simple, the DPS of cone of cold is that much better than Rapid Fire, while being aoe and having a healing component.

No, blurred frenzy does quite a bit more damage. I don’t even know why you’re mentioning mesmer skills in comparison to Cone of Cold. They aren’t the same thing.

But then I guess if you’re going with the sheep approach of listening and blindly following what a mass says, why not just ask them? As them which is better, Cone of Cold or Rapid Fire. AFAICS, you’re just blinded by bias and that whatever aspect of Ranger you hand pick, it has to be worse than something else (and completely dismiss the fact you’re hand picking what you’re comparing to from a profession that has the best of a particular type of skill).

There’s a reason I don’t listen to stuff like that. It has little to no context, sidesteps a football field’s worth of circumstances and justifies its stance with “because everyone agrees” without pointing to how they came to that conclusion.

Keep calling your opinions facts however much you want, but when the consensus runs against you, all this bs you’re spewing will not appeal to people. Because warriors didn’t just become popular due to some post on a forum.

Um, you’re the one calling your opinions facts (as well as a few other trolls here). While Warriors may have become popular due to trials and testing, that doesn’t mean Rangers became unpopular for the same reason. I know it must be hard to wrap your head around such a complex concept but give it a shot. The likelihood Ranger stigma will change is very little, and the only thing I could see changing it is improvements to the profession, not because it currently can’t perform at all but so that players will push aside their previous misconceptions and give the profession another try.

But feel free to answer the question as to ranger utility being comparable, and do show the math about condition damage specs outperforming knight and berserker stat combos. So far you just make a statement and expect people to take you on your word just because you contradicted the majority of posters.

I’ll make a list of some of the things you side-stepped here:
-You’ve jumped around to so many professions to badmouth Ranger utility. From guardians to elementalist, warrior to mesmer and so forth.
-I’m not expecting anyone to take my word for anything, I’d rather you question your own concepts about the game as a whole.
-You must think a condition spec cannot do 2-3k auto attacks with 130+ bleed per stack and 1k+ burn every second.

Well, my two cents, not like they matter much.
First char was the Ranger, love him as much now as I did then. I feel like the class rewards me for putting in the effort to make it effective instead of my other level 80 toons which have less of a skill curve (greatsword warrior comes to mind). I loved it for what I could do, but like most people have said – other classes can do that better, and usually dps better. When dps matters in my guild groups, I don’t bring the Ranger. When I know it’s not an issue and I can play a more supportive cc role, then I enjoy playing the profession.

Yea, it’s weak, but I like it. It’s like saying the only way to play Doom is with the BFG – I like to chainsaw my demons sometimes.

Leo G.4501:

Zenith.7301:

Blurred Frenzy is 2 seconds and hits for around the same, has shorter range, and doesn’t even heal allies.

It’s that simple, the DPS of cone of cold is that much better than Rapid Fire, while being aoe and having a healing component.

No, blurred frenzy does quite a bit more damage. I don’t even know why you’re mentioning mesmer skills in comparison to Cone of Cold. They aren’t the same thing.

But then I guess if you’re going with the sheep approach of listening and blindly following what a mass says, why not just ask them? As them which is better, Cone of Cold or Rapid Fire. AFAICS, you’re just blinded by bias and that whatever aspect of Ranger you hand pick, it has to be worse than something else (and completely dismiss the fact you’re hand picking what you’re comparing to from a profession that has the best of a particular type of skill).

There’s a reason I don’t listen to stuff like that. It has little to no context, sidesteps a football field’s worth of circumstances and justifies its stance with “because everyone agrees” without pointing to how they came to that conclusion.

Keep calling your opinions facts however much you want, but when the consensus runs against you, all this bs you’re spewing will not appeal to people. Because warriors didn’t just become popular due to some post on a forum.

Um, you’re the one calling your opinions facts (as well as a few other trolls here). While Warriors may have become popular due to trials and testing, that doesn’t mean Rangers became unpopular for the same reason. I know it must be hard to wrap your head around such a complex concept but give it a shot. The likelihood Ranger stigma will change is very little, and the only thing I could see changing it is improvements to the profession, not because it currently can’t perform at all but so that players will push aside their previous misconceptions and give the profession another try.

But feel free to answer the question as to ranger utility being comparable, and do show the math about condition damage specs outperforming knight and berserker stat combos. So far you just make a statement and expect people to take you on your word just because you contradicted the majority of posters.

I’ll make a list of some of the things you side-stepped here:
-You’ve jumped around to so many professions to badmouth Ranger utility. From guardians to elementalist, warrior to mesmer and so forth.
-I’m not expecting anyone to take my word for anything, I’d rather you question your own concepts about the game as a whole.
-You must think a condition spec cannot do 2-3k auto attacks with 130+ bleed per stack and 1k+ burn every second.

All that hot air has got to carry about a city worth of people on a balloon ride.

Yes, everyone else is a sheep and you’re the erudite. I’m done with you avoiding to discuss ranger utility other than “we do both pretty good at the same time while other classes do not”.

swiftpaw.6397:

I just spent 3 hours in fotm 28 in a party of 2 rangers, a mesmer and a necro. they failed at the dredge because they lacked the DPS to take down the mining suit. Both were running bear pets with shortbow and questionable gear. There was no pet swapping and minimal weapon swapping.

This is what gives rangers a bad name, this is why I am really starting to question ever taking pug rangers.

This is what makes people avoid taking this class imo. Poor players.

PS- the necro was also pretty awful. Which certainly did not help. He at least had an AOE freeze for some cc :/

Similar situation but at FotM level 20 with two rangers. They couldn’t get past the kraits in the underwater fractal. Maybe it was the same two.

My ranger is shelved until the class becomes more viable in group content

Instead of a dead pet, low damage, and questionable utility I’ll either provide massive utility and good damage on my mesmer or killer healing and decent damage on my elementalist.

Thanks for the feedback, everyone. I’ve taken most of it in, and I have done a lot of feeling it out over the past couple of weeks that I have re-integrated myself in GW2. I ran plenty of dungeons on my Ranger, Ele, and Guardian.

I have to say that I probably felt like it was easier to be useful on my Ele or Guardian, but the fact that I know my Ranger so much better made a difference. I saw moments where I would not have been able to help or to save the group from a wipe on any other profession, but that I managed to pull us through on my Ranger. Again, this may just be because I know it so much better than the others, and I can certainly see why people have complaints about Rangers in dungeons.

So far, my major desire for changes to Ranger class, even more so than added utility: Make pets dodge when the player dodges, at the very least.

If you want a jack of all trades in a dungeon :P better to take an ele than a ranger

Oolune.4357:

I saw moments where I would not have been able to help or to save the group from a wipe on any other profession, but that I managed to pull us through on my Ranger. Again, this may just be because I know it so much better than the others, and I can certainly see why people have complaints about Rangers in dungeons.

Maybe you can quote the examples. Some ppl like myself seem unconvinced that great Ranger players can actually be more useful than average players of other professions and that great players in other professions will not be much better than great Ranger players.

Maybe a very good Ranger can carry a COF P2 team of 4 terribad warriors.

Oolune.4357:

Thanks for the feedback, everyone. I’ve taken most of it in, and I have done a lot of feeling it out over the past couple of weeks that I have re-integrated myself in GW2. I ran plenty of dungeons on my Ranger, Ele, and Guardian.

I have to say that I probably felt like it was easier to be useful on my Ele or Guardian, but the fact that I know my Ranger so much better made a difference. I saw moments where I would not have been able to help or to save the group from a wipe on any other profession, but that I managed to pull us through on my Ranger. Again, this may just be because I know it so much better than the others, and I can certainly see why people have complaints about Rangers in dungeons.

So far, my major desire for changes to Ranger class, even more so than added utility: Make pets dodge when the player dodges, at the very least.

See? You’ve already gotten your base so develop it from there with your chosen profession. Whether a Warrior can do more damage or a Guardian can grant more boons or a Mesmer can add more utility than a Ranger doesn’t matter…because they won’t for you. You’re more capable with Ranger and people that tell you you’re wrong and should play something else are wrong.

When you start listening to the sheep tell you how to herd you lose freedom. You should keep going with whatever you choose.

I would agree to each his/her own but I think people claiming that ranger is a good profession; just that it has a high learning curve like the elementalist (and engineer imo) really don’t know what they are talking about.

If GW2 had class recommendations for skill level, DPS and support in the class descriptions as they do in other games, I would describe it as: Recommended for new players, Average to Average-High DPS (single target mostly), Poor to Average Support (Average because apparently not everyone carries Healing Pods).

I don’t know why, but of all bad players I meet, most of them are rangers. Why is this class such a noob-magnet?

misterdevious.6482:

…

We have options, but they aren’t widely understood (even by many rangers), can be killed, have some limitations, and the timing and positioning of them may not be 100% under our control… all of which makes people dubious. Right now the issue seems to be how to give us the controls to adequately manage pets in dungeon situations without straight up buffing them.

The problem is the utility u mentioned via pet management is only possible if your pet doesnt die in a boss AOE attack even within 16s especially the less tanky ones u mentioned and you dont get to control when they chose to activate their attack skills (eg the drake tail swipe which concidentally has a 30s CD). The Moa cone AOE is far too small to be of any real benefit to teammates in 95% of the time.

As for Spirit of Nature, I have yet to see a ranger use it in a boss fight yet. For example would he use it against Old Tom to provide condition removals? Or he could always use Entangle for the 14 stacks of 8s bleeds or Rampage As One for the 20s of fury.

Konrad.9587:

I don’t know why, but of all bad players I meet, most of them are rangers. Why is this class such a noob-magnet?

It’s a very easy class to level up in open world PVE,harder to play it well.
And in all likelihood,there’s Probbaly more terrible players running a warrior,just it’s not as obvious when they screw up.

Khal Drogo.9631:

misterdevious.6482:

…

We have options, but they aren’t widely understood (even by many rangers), can be killed, have some limitations, and the timing and positioning of them may not be 100% under our control… all of which makes people dubious. Right now the issue seems to be how to give us the controls to adequately manage pets in dungeon situations without straight up buffing them.

The problem is the utility u mentioned via pet management is only possible if your pet doesnt die in a boss AOE attack even within 16s especially the less tanky ones u mentioned and you dont get to control when they chose to activate their attack skills (eg the drake tail swipe which concidentally has a 30s CD). The Moa cone AOE is far too small to be of any real benefit to teammates in 95% of the time.

As for Spirit of Nature, I have yet to see a ranger use it in a boss fight yet. For example would he use it against Old Tom to provide condition removals? Or he could always use Entangle for the 14 stacks of 8s bleeds or Rampage As One for the 20s of fury.

For AoE heavy fights, there are 2 options to keep pets alive (3 technically). First is to stay away and afk spam 1 with pet on passive but if you do that, better bring a passive buff Pet. Second is to swap to bears and have signet of stone just in case it will die before you can swap. Third and my fav is usually melee with them. Most AoE arent near the boss or can be avoided by being near the boss. Your healing spring helps the melee classes, if using drake, the burst healing from the tail swipe helps all and the leap combo effect helps heal yourself. Too many rangers I’ve seen rely on range but sometimes its not as helpful to overall party in support or dps.

As for Spirit, its useless IMO. I’ve tried it, tried it at range (doesnt help melees) and at melee range (crappy results) Usually if using it to res anyone within range, its pointless unless tons of rangers with it because the internal CD is horrid and the CD on it is horrid also.

The first character I leveled to 80 was a ranger, followed by an ele, warrior, and guardian.

So far, my offensive spec’d ranger is tied with my full defensive spec’d S/D ele in damage. What’s more, my ele gives everyone in range 25 stacks of might and can generate something like 15 2k+ heals a minute.

My ranger and ele are probably tied in survivability. The difference however, is that my ele can get to the top of the aggro table. My ranger can’t unless he’s trying to pick up a downed party member.

I can’t really comment first hand on the other two classes because I haven’t spent enough time playing either class in dungeons, but they look promising. Both do more damage than my ranger without really trying and both have utility skills that work well in a group setting.