Guild Wars 2

Asking whether it is. I really hope its considered one and Anet do something about it. Yeah Im spreading the word by discussing it. What is it? So here I am doing a COF run and fighting the boss. Boss is about 60% and I start to wonder why its taking so long. Have a quick look, yep its happened again. All my allies have logged out of the game and logged back in on a low level character, for some reason usually level 10-15. It wastes my time. AFAIK the only benefit is that they get XP on a low level char. Maybe they also get increased MF benefits for killing a level X dungeon on a low level char. All I know is it wastes my time and I hope it gets fixed. But is it an exploit?

An exploit, no. Taking advantage of other party members? Potentially. Dungeon completion is a big chunk of experience, though worth less money on a low level chara.

I, personally, have done this in AC before, but I switch before the boss to a chara that can still handle the dungeon and I do it with the approval of my party. If you are concerned that people may do this, ask beforehand so you know what to expect.

I have never seen anyone logging into too low level characters for the corresponding dungeon. Usually they ask before we enter dungeon and log into their alts before the last fight begins with which I have no problem.

It’s a quick way to level up alts, but it’s not an exploit.

It’s not an exploit; but it’s suggested to be proper etiquette to ask other party members before logging into a lower level alt to have them claim the rewards. Sounds to me that members of your group did so without letting you know before hand.

I suspect the only reason why it’s allowed is because the devs haven’t figured out how to code against it. Removing the rewards for characters that aren’t there for the whole dungeon is going to stop players from joining groups that lost a member (because joining it after the beginning will result in no rewards). If the devs could code in a way to prevent you from getting tokens on an alt that didn’t actually do the dungeon but was there for the final fight without taking tokens away from players who legitimately filled the spot of a player who for some reason couldn’t finish, I’m confident they would do away with it.

thats messed up.. pretty sure even with a 8-10 level difference you start hitting for single digits.. dont want to even think about what a 10-15 does in cof.

Had this happen once or twice in Arah where a guy switched to a lv 40ish thief when we were half way done with the last boss… dont know how many times he did it but it sounded like it had been done since he was much lower on the alt.. blocked and dont worry about them anymore.

they should add an option to kick or accept when in a dung and a player switched characters. i.e. lv80 war in Arah switches to a lv40 thief we can refuse to let them come in.

Koga.7215:

Had this happen once or twice in Arah where a guy switched to a lv 40ish thief when we were half way done with the last boss… dont know how many times he did it but it sounded like it had been done since he was much lower on the alt.. blocked and dont worry about them anymore.

they should add an option to kick or accept when in a dung and a player switched characters. i.e. lv80 war in Arah switches to a lv40 thief we can refuse to let them come in.

Which final boss in Arah requires full party?

How is this not an exploit? Maybe I missed something but how can you get a 10-15 toon into a dungeon that is level 75 explorable? Do you get upleveled?

If this happened to me I would just stand back and watch them try to kill the boss on thier level 15’s.

Ruprect.7260:

How is this not an exploit? Maybe I missed something but how can you get a 10-15 toon into a dungeon that is level 75 explorable? Do you get upleveled?

If this happened to me I would just stand back and watch them try to kill the boss on thier level 15’s.

They’ve known about it since week 2 of game release. Dungeons have no level restrictions, only recommended levels. Back in the days, you could get a toon from lvl 2 to 20-25 in 1 cof run. Now they’ve scaled it to 70% of your bar no matter what level you are. If it was an exploit, they shouldve/wouldve removed it a long time ago. Either that, or they really suck at coding and havent figured out how to change it.

Ioflux.4369:

Ruprect.7260:

How is this not an exploit? Maybe I missed something but how can you get a 10-15 toon into a dungeon that is level 75 explorable? Do you get upleveled?

If this happened to me I would just stand back and watch them try to kill the boss on thier level 15’s.

They’ve known about it since week 2 of game release. Dungeons have no level restrictions, only recommended levels. Back in the days, you could get a toon from lvl 2 to 20-25 in 1 cof run. Now they’ve scaled it to 70% of your bar no matter what level you are. If it was an exploit, they shouldve/wouldve removed it a long time ago. Either that, or they really suck at coding and havent figured out how to change it.

Huh, i wasnt aware of that. Thanks for the info.

I suspect the only reason why it’s allowed is because the devs haven’t figured out how to code against it.

That’s kind of my feelings on it.
Prettymuch any countermeasure I can figure would be limiting people. I think this is one of those instances where it’s better to encourage people to stick with one character throughout, than try to figure out a way to block this and hope you chose something with the least backlash to legitimate play.

You know, revamping the magic find mechanic could potentially two birds one stone both the trash mobs reward structure issue and this irritating practice.

If you got increasingly better rewards the more you fought, this bonus had no limits to what it applied to, and it was something that stacked on your character; you would naturally make changing your character at the end a sacrifice of loot in exchange for powerlevelling your alt.

I did this to power level my Thief (and now my Mesmer). I don’t log off @ 60% though. I log off @ 10-20% (depends on how fast the boss is dying) and I don’t leave the group hanging before I do it.

I’ve done it maybe 20 times so far? Haven’t had a complaint yet. I’ve seen other people do it, but all of them log off when the boss is @ 80%! That’s being a kitten.

If you aren’t doing it, you should! I do all of AC, COF, TA, and some times other dungeons and can get 8-10 levels in a few hours on top of tokens that I can throw at my alt as soon as I hit 80 and then do class quests.

So TLDR; you do 95% of the dungeon on your main and log off before the boss dies. I don’t see anything wrong with it!

Bringing an alt in for the first time that day also gives you another 60 tokens rather than 20 if you’re doing a path for the 2nd time on your main.

Awesome.6120:

Bringing an alt in for the first time that day also gives you another 60 tokens rather than 20 if you’re doing a path for the 2nd time on your main.

I thought that was tied to the account?

Not anymore. I have guildies living in TA now because of it.

I do this too…swap in my lvl 30ish ranger whenever on last boss of HotW or CoF. I let my party know ahead of time though and I’ve yet to have any complaints either. I usually leave at 20-30%…

I think it’s a great way to put that xp to good use not to mention the bosses aren’t too hard…But leaving before boss even reaches 40% is kind of…lazy…

Honestly the final bosses aren’t particularly hard, it’s just getting there that’s tricky…so as long as the player was contributing during the entire dungeon run…I see no reason why they should be kicked them out if they swap when the boss is low…

Guilty of this in AC often, but I’ve never had someone do it to me without first warning the party before the run starts and I’ve never done it without asking if it’s ok.

I think you just got some bad eggs.

Personally, I’d love to see them do away with the 30 tokens instead of 60 DR, but maybe switch it up to where whatever character you entered a dungeon with is the one you have to finish it with… but that’s just me.

I think hoping people will restrict the applications of an exploit with common courtesy in mind might be a touch overly optimistic.

Also, you can’t mistake somebody not taking the time to call you out on something as being okay with it. “It was more trouble for them to stop/replace me, than to carry me” is not exactly the kind of logic that gets you on somebody’s friends list.

Auesis.7301:

It’s a quick way to level up alts, but it’s not an exploit.

No it’s not. The exp is capped at 70% of your current level per first run per path despite your character level and lvl 10ish chars gain the fastest exp by just exploring anyway.

Only one person ever tried that in all the runs I’ve done and he was immediately kicked, and that’s after he asked.

If someone tried that without asking he’s asking to be kicked.

DeathPanel.8362:

Auesis.7301:

It’s a quick way to level up alts, but it’s not an exploit.

No it’s not. The exp is capped at 70% of your current level per first run per path despite your character level and lvl 10ish chars gain the fastest exp by just exploring anyway.

Only one person ever tried that in all the runs I’ve done and he was immediately kicked, and that’s after he asked.

If someone tried that without asking he’s asking to be kicked.

Yes, it is. I am FULLY aware of that 70% cap, and it’s still extremely quick and harmless if you’re in a group of people who you know and play with regularly. 3 runs of AC takes an hour at maximum and that’s 2 easy levels, along with CoF path 1 and 2, both extremely fast and easy, followed by all 3 paths of TA and HotW path 1 for good measure. In an efficient dungeon group like the one I run with, that’s 6.3 levels of experience within a few hours, and since I have a lot of work to do, I usually log on to get those runs done every or every other day. Who said anything about level 10? I throw them in at the 30s-40s at minimum after I’ve got them most of their skills by themselves so they can run to the higher zones a little easier. Without any effort, I can gear them up with tokens and level them.

Sad for that guy, but that’s irrelevant. Get a dedicated group and don’t do it with pugs. Problem solved.

It actually is a pretty quick way to level alts. 70% of a level is pretty significant for a few minutes (or less) of work. Do that three times if you are clearing all paths of a dungeon? Over 2 levels. Of course you always want to make sure it is okay with your party before doing so or you might foster resentment/dislike or get kicked.

I don’t have a hugh problem with this, but to say this is not an exploit is ridiculous.

You are exploiting the system to get rewards/xp for a character who did not put in the necessary work/time to receive the rewards.

I understand this is how the system currently works, but this is not what was intended by the designers. You are using a flaw in the design to gain benefit.

If you are going to do it, whatever. Just don’t try to sit over there and think that you are not exploiting. That is ridiculous.

Mad Rasputin.7809:

I don’t have a hugh problem with this, but to say this is not an exploit is ridiculous.

You are exploiting the system to get rewards/xp for a character who did not put in the necessary work/time to receive the rewards.

I understand this is how the system currently works, but this is not what was intended by the designers. You are using a flaw in the design to gain benefit.

If you are going to do it, whatever. Just don’t try to sit over there and think that you are not exploiting. That is ridiculous.

I don’t see how it is an “exploit”. Leveling is just the carrot on the stick grind to get you to the endgame and I fail to see how finding a way to make it easier to get from 0-80 is even remotely cheating.

Also, when you relog you lose the drops from the last boss.

Levels exist, therefore, it’s okay to work the system to undermine the spirit of them?

That’s quite the twisted logic. “But, Officer, I wouldn’t be guilty of breaking and entering if they didn’t put that diamond behind so much bulletproof glass”?

Hmm, I’m currently downloading the client, and hearing this is discouraging. Having not played the game yet, I’m not very well entitled to my say, but using extra curricular tactics to expediently level alts in an unfair manner is practically the definition of an exploit. My DL should be done in an hour, and I can honestly say I will never try this crap. Most of the fun I get from playing an MMO is indeed the level grind, (I’m an old EQ1 player from launch), and knowing some unscrupulous characters are doing this to speed past levels is pretty disgusting. I fear I may play GW2 for a week or two before I become disheartened and quit (I just hope this game doesn’t have the childish population core that WoW had, I lasted like a week in that game before my ignore list was so long that I couldn’t stand it any more.) I understand the reason why this hasn’t been fixed in a game that encourages mixed level groups, but don’t poop in my ice cream cone and call it chocolate, it sounds very much indeed like an exploit.

nothing wrong with it, and this post is a hellishly exaggerated example.

your whole party logged into lvl 10 alts with the boss barely scratched? i call bullkitten.

Certainly wouldn’t be hard to fix at all. I have very limited coding experience, and I’m sure I could write something in under an hour that would prevent this. Bleh.

if anything it should limit the entry to characters of the dungeon’s recommended level…but even then i often take people lvl 30-34 into AC exp. no issue. lvl 76 in arah, 41 in cm exp, etc.

Are you guys serious? How in the world could this not be considered an exploit? The question should be why in the world hasn’t Anet banned people for it yet? This exploit early exploit often crap is getting old in MMO’s. It seems unless it’s some major economic issue at play like the Karma weapons or Snowflakes they don’t care about the obvious exploits being used.

Auesis.7301:

DeathPanel.8362:

Auesis.7301:

It’s a quick way to level up alts, but it’s not an exploit.

No it’s not. The exp is capped at 70% of your current level per first run per path despite your character level and lvl 10ish chars gain the fastest exp by just exploring anyway.

Only one person ever tried that in all the runs I’ve done and he was immediately kicked, and that’s after he asked.

If someone tried that without asking he’s asking to be kicked.

Yes, it is. I am FULLY aware of that 70% cap, and it’s still extremely quick and harmless if you’re in a group of people who you know and play with regularly. 3 runs of AC takes an hour at maximum and that’s 2 easy levels, along with CoF path 1 and 2, both extremely fast and easy, followed by all 3 paths of TA and HotW path 1 for good measure. In an efficient dungeon group like the one I run with, that’s 6.3 levels of experience within a few hours, and since I have a lot of work to do, I usually log on to get those runs done every or every other day. Who said anything about level 10? I throw them in at the 30s-40s at minimum after I’ve got them most of their skills by themselves so they can run to the higher zones a little easier. Without any effort, I can gear them up with tokens and level them.

Sad for that guy, but that’s irrelevant. Get a dedicated group and don’t do it with pugs. Problem solved.

The point is it’s still faster simply just leveling rather than doing the character switch if you are lvl 10ish. That and most teams will not like you doing it and will most likely just kick you.

It is much faster if you run with a good group. Not to mention the loot is much better in dungeons than doing lvl 20 hearts or whatever. And tokens.

DeathPanel.8362:

Auesis.7301:

DeathPanel.8362:

Auesis.7301:

It’s a quick way to level up alts, but it’s not an exploit.

No it’s not. The exp is capped at 70% of your current level per first run per path despite your character level and lvl 10ish chars gain the fastest exp by just exploring anyway.

Only one person ever tried that in all the runs I’ve done and he was immediately kicked, and that’s after he asked.

If someone tried that without asking he’s asking to be kicked.

Yes, it is. I am FULLY aware of that 70% cap, and it’s still extremely quick and harmless if you’re in a group of people who you know and play with regularly. 3 runs of AC takes an hour at maximum and that’s 2 easy levels, along with CoF path 1 and 2, both extremely fast and easy, followed by all 3 paths of TA and HotW path 1 for good measure. In an efficient dungeon group like the one I run with, that’s 6.3 levels of experience within a few hours, and since I have a lot of work to do, I usually log on to get those runs done every or every other day. Who said anything about level 10? I throw them in at the 30s-40s at minimum after I’ve got them most of their skills by themselves so they can run to the higher zones a little easier. Without any effort, I can gear them up with tokens and level them.

Sad for that guy, but that’s irrelevant. Get a dedicated group and don’t do it with pugs. Problem solved.

The point is it’s still faster simply just leveling rather than doing the character switch if you are lvl 10ish. That and most teams will not like you doing it and will most likely just kick you.

Which is why I level them by exploration/questing until past the 20s region. And again, don’t do it in pugs. It’s just rude.

ComeAndSee.1356:

I did this to power level my Thief (and now my Mesmer). I don’t log off @ 60% though. I log off @ 10-20% (depends on how fast the boss is dying) and I don’t leave the group hanging before I do it.

I’ve done it maybe 20 times so far? Haven’t had a complaint yet. I’ve seen other people do it, but all of them log off when the boss is @ 80%! That’s being a kitten.

If you aren’t doing it, you should! I do all of AC, COF, TA, and some times other dungeons and can get 8-10 levels in a few hours on top of tokens that I can throw at my alt as soon as I hit 80 and then do class quests.

So TLDR; you do 95% of the dungeon on your main and log off before the boss dies. I don’t see anything wrong with it!

So long as you make sure the party’s OK with it, sure. Because the higher-level party members are carrying your lowbie alt, since it’s not going to contribute much to the fight. If you’re doing this without telling the party I think that’s a problem, and I would vote to kick if I noticed somebody doing that without asking.

I’ve never seen anyone try this and not get kicked. Even if the party leader said it was ok, they are booted while logging for asking a stupid question.

Would be a simple thing to adjust I think. Just change recommended level to required level. People would still be switching characters for tokens, but at least they would be switching to level appropriate characters that can still contribute.

My guild has boosted some guild mates this way, but that’s a different story. We usually know that’s the deal before we even go in and boosting that character will eventually be to the benefit of everyone. Pugs usually don’t say anything until the boss, it at all, because they know if they do they will probably just get replaced before it’s started.

We do this for guild members, however it is incredibly obnoxious when someone does it in a pug without telling the others. Especially when they don’t even damage the boss on their main before switching, essentially leeching off the other 4 members.

If someone tried this in my team I would not hesitate to vote kick them. People have been vote kicked for just asking this.

DeathPanel.8362:

If someone tried this in my team I would not hesitate to vote kick them. People have been vote kicked for just asking this.

Kicking just for asking if they can swap to a low lvl alt ?
Man I love using the forum as a block list, weeds out the bad without logging in game.

Regardless, I see no problem with this if the group agrees.
No issue or exploit.

The word Exploit encompasses this practice so fully it actually manages to satisfy more than one sense of it. It’s both exploitative of mechanics in the game design sense, and can easily be exploitative of your teammates in the common usage sense. It is both An Exploit and Exploitative.

I seriously can’t imagine a word that more accurately describes the situation.

Had this happen one time and we ended up wiping at the boss because of it. It is not an exploit but it is taking advantage of your teammates and being a horrible teammate.

If the complaint is people doing it without the approval of their teammates then yes, exploitative of your team.

If the complaint is people doing it at all, then I have to disagree. The player is still putting in the effort of getting to that point. And if their team is all right with it, then no harm done. Right?

I do that a lot on my lower levels,
I ask for permission first from party members, first thing i ask.

then i make sure the boss is at a very low level, like about 1/8 or 1/4 left then switch.

If the complaint is people doing it at all, then I have to disagree. The player is still putting in the effort of getting to that point. And if their team is all right with it, then no harm done. Right?

When you put aside the ninja mooching,
what you’re left with is a pretty standard powerlevelling discussion. You know; Yadda yadda ‘Pointless Grind’ yadda yadda ‘Level 80 Noobs’ yadda yadda link to Extra Credits video which is somehow perfectly relevant. One of those friggin’ things.

I kind of think the Leeching aspect of this is genuinely bad enough that it deserves it’s own serious thread. So can we sort of ignore the Powerlevelling part of it, or at least get it in another thread?

/edit: Niceness pass.
What can I say? Mooching kittens rustle my jimmies.

Vox Hollow.2736:

If the complaint is people doing it at all, then I have to disagree. The player is still putting in the effort of getting to that point. And if their team is all right with it, then no harm done. Right?

When you put aside the ninja mooching,
what you’re left with is a pretty standard powerlevelling discussion. You know; Yadda yadda ‘Pointless Grind’ yadda yadda ‘Level 80 Noobs’ yadda yadda link to Extra Credits video which is somehow perfectly relevant. One of those friggin’ things.

I kind of think the Leeching aspect of this is genuinely bad enough that it deserves it’s own serious thread. So can we sort of ignore the Powerlevelling part of it, or at least get it in another thread?

/edit: Niceness pass.
What can I say? Mooching kittens rustle my jimmies.

True. There are two things being discussed here.

Some may not like the power leveling that others do, but it is in no way harmful to others in and of itself. And when you are working on your 3rd+ chara (I’m nearly onto my 6th), any boost is nice.

The other, and greater issue, is the leeching. From what I have read here, I don’t think anyone approves of others doing this without approval. Noone cares for the leechers. So does the leeching still need to get discussed if everyone is already in agreement on it?

Kinda’ thinking less debatey more commiserating rabble rabble. So it doesn’t much matter to me there isn’t much of an opposing viewpoint.

It’s obviously an exploit. Why on earth would Anet intentionally want people to log off in the middle of a fight to log on an alt for xp? It’s tolerated (because it has no real impact on the overall game), but it’s still an exploit.

Wow I never knew this was even possible. What a horrible design.

Should either be a min level req on dungeons or an account lock preventing you from zoning another character in after going in on one.

Remember, those players will get less silver coins because they are low level.

Which means the end reward of a dungeon, i.e. experience worth 70% of one level, is worth it. The real question being why players are not using their low-level character in the first place. Answer: because they get kicked for not being 80, which is another problem in itself.

ArenaNet should consider giving players “Xp tokens” as rewards, instead of having players who game the system.

If you think that is bad, wait until players relog in fractals to quickly repair their armor in Lion’s Arch. Also do get me started on how many levels the system of destructible armor is either nonsense or fails to deliver what ArenaNet publicly claims it was there to achieve.

AcidicVision.5498:

I’ve never seen anyone try this and not get kicked. Even if the party leader said it was ok, they are booted while logging for asking a stupid question.

I did this 6 times yesterday (Did AC twice before and pre-reset in 2 separate groups) and didn’t get booted once. I have a raid hard-drive setup so my load times are under 10 seconds.

I (on my main) help the party clear the entire dungeon and then on the final boss at about 10-15% I relog, get on my alt, and zone in, and in the span of 20 seconds the boss is dead. Half the time I’m zoning in when the cinematic is just playing or about to play.

The simple fact is; nobody cares if you’re a good player and aren’t being obnoxious like logging off @ 80% or right before the fight and expecting the group to carry you throughout the entire fight.

Also, DONT do it if you’re the instance host or you’ll kick everyone out. I did this before and I felt bad and gave everyone 50 silver for their lost time.