Guild Wars 2

Also i think sellimg raids shouldbt be allowed n people banned for selling and buying.

eldrin.6471:

persistent is one way of putting it lol.but masterys didnt have legendary armour locked behind them.and you didnt need 9 other players.i dont meen to go on and on and on.
or annoy people.just a nack comes with the territory Asperger land.

Yeah all the masteries had was some crappy abilities vital to the storyline, map metas, and general open world mobility. Nothing really important like a armor set with an above average skin and the same stats as the armor you already have.

Yeah you get rewarded consistently for doing mastery exp grinding, but it took me and probably lots of other people longer to max out masteries than to full clear the raid so take that as you will.

GameGuard.8610:

Also i think sellimg raids shouldbt be allowed n people banned for selling and buying.

And why is that? If I’m offering a service and someone is willing to pay what I ask, then why should I be banned for doing something that is obviously not against the tos of the game and which anet has explicitly said is acceptable?

Dinosaurs.8674:

GameGuard.8610:

Also i think sellimg raids shouldbt be allowed n people banned for selling and buying.

And why is that? If I’m offering a service and someone is willing to pay what I ask, then why should I be banned for doing something that is obviously not against the tos of the game and which anet has explicitly said is acceptable?

I think it more has to do with the fact that some people (myself included) are sick of the 1% rich TP flippers from being able to buy everything in the game. At times I miss games like WoW where if you had a Legendary it meant that your guild respected you and let you build one, not that you could just throw your wallet around.

Azoqu.8917:

Dinosaurs.8674:

GameGuard.8610:

Also i think sellimg raids shouldbt be allowed n people banned for selling and buying.

And why is that? If I’m offering a service and someone is willing to pay what I ask, then why should I be banned for doing something that is obviously not against the tos of the game and which anet has explicitly said is acceptable?

I think it more has to do with the fact that some people (myself included) are sick of the 1% rich TP flippers from being able to buy everything in the game. At times I miss games like WoW where if you had a Legendary it meant that your guild respected you and let you build one, not that you could just throw your wallet around.

I would agree with that sentiment, but attempting to block people from selling raids won’t change the fact that legendary acquisition in gw2 is almost completely a gold grind.

Not to mention that actually enforcing such a rule would likely prove quite difficult, especially since it would imply that selling other services would be against the rules as well.

Dinosaurs.8674:

Azoqu.8917:

Dinosaurs.8674:

GameGuard.8610:

Also i think sellimg raids shouldbt be allowed n people banned for selling and buying.

And why is that? If I’m offering a service and someone is willing to pay what I ask, then why should I be banned for doing something that is obviously not against the tos of the game and which anet has explicitly said is acceptable?

I think it more has to do with the fact that some people (myself included) are sick of the 1% rich TP flippers from being able to buy everything in the game. At times I miss games like WoW where if you had a Legendary it meant that your guild respected you and let you build one, not that you could just throw your wallet around.

I would agree with that sentiment, but attempting to block people from selling raids won’t change the fact that legendary acquisition in gw2 is almost completely a gold grind.

Not to mention that actually enforcing such a rule would likely prove quite difficult, especially since it would imply that selling other services would be against the rules as well.

And this is why I really hope that the remaining parts of the second collection require something very skill based that is done in a solo instance so people can’t get help on it. I just want something in this game that is actually skill based for once. The armor will be mostly skill based but there will be a few people who don’t deserve it that will have it after a while.

Azoqu.8917:

Dinosaurs.8674:

Azoqu.8917:

Dinosaurs.8674:

GameGuard.8610:

Also i think sellimg raids shouldbt be allowed n people banned for selling and buying.

And why is that? If I’m offering a service and someone is willing to pay what I ask, then why should I be banned for doing something that is obviously not against the tos of the game and which anet has explicitly said is acceptable?

I think it more has to do with the fact that some people (myself included) are sick of the 1% rich TP flippers from being able to buy everything in the game. At times I miss games like WoW where if you had a Legendary it meant that your guild respected you and let you build one, not that you could just throw your wallet around.

I would agree with that sentiment, but attempting to block people from selling raids won’t change the fact that legendary acquisition in gw2 is almost completely a gold grind.

Not to mention that actually enforcing such a rule would likely prove quite difficult, especially since it would imply that selling other services would be against the rules as well.

And this is why I really hope that the remaining parts of the second collection require something very skill based that is done in a solo instance so people can’t get help on it. I just want something in this game that is actually skill based for once. The armor will be mostly skill based but there will be a few people who don’t deserve it that will have it after a while.

And can’t be cheesed like Liadri.

eldrin.6471:

you are 126 insights and are fine with it being 150.you need 24 of course your fine with it.and as for your tip. you cant claim to have puged your insights then talk about doing raids with folk on your friends list.some guys pug it every week and every week its different folk they play with,hence the struggle to make progress on the insights.as has been made clear its mostly folk who already got or are close to 150 who are fine with it.

I’m at 46 insights and I’m not concerned by the 150. I was at 30-33 insights when the details of Legendary armor came out and I still wasn’t concerned.

Because unlike you, I put in the effort to find a consistent raid group that can clear all 9 bosses per week without having to break my bank account to do so.

No. As we get more Raids it will get easier and easier to acquire more LI more quickly. I think ANet hit the perfect number. Right now legendary Armor will be a huge status symbol as it will take a while for anyone to craft it, resources aside. As we get more raids the prestige drops a bit as people have had longer to farm the LI and they can get them quicker, but it still involves quite a bit of Raiding. Its a good number, and this is coming from someone who doesn’t raid at all

You want a skill based collection for legendary armor/items, isn’t that nice. You should go make a thread about that.

People are only for keeping it at 150 LI because they have some silly disillusion that its the only way to justify the title of “legendary”.

Anyone not in that category is either a troll, full sour apples, or as someone pointed out in it for the money.

Everyone wins (or at worst shouldn’t care) by lowering the cost or making the drop rate of LI increase. You’ll have more LI then everyone else to buy other stuff in the future or they will sit around and do nothing, something thats going to happen either way.

P.S Its unlikely we will get another raid wing for some time now, probably with the next expansion at earliest.

Harddrive.2738:

Anyone not in that category is either a troll, full sour apples, or as someone pointed out in it for the money.

/sigh

You’re going to have a difficult time to get people to take you seriously if you keep continuing to insult all those that do not agree with you.

I like how this entire thread has come down to the follow

Either you agree with me or you’re X,Y,Z mudslinging here.

Great points, really open to rebuttal and designing any sort of meaningful solution.

Ayrilana.1396:

Harddrive.2738:

Anyone not in that category is either a troll, full sour apples, or as someone pointed out in it for the money.

/sigh

You’re going to have a difficult time to get people to take you seriously if you keep continuing to insult all those that do not agree with you.

Right? Because insulting those your are trying to convince is such a sound strategy! xD

When giving people a choice and they assume the “troll” option, what does that tell us?

Think about it, if you already have a 150 II or close enough, why are you in the form? It has nothing to do with you and changes nothing to your ability to obtain the armor. AkA your just complaining cause you can, AKA troll.

If not a troll, you should be making your own topic to complain about the collection as a whole.

Your welcome to try and give a flip side point back that I haven’t considered, but I suspect they’ll mostly just be off topic or just personal complaints about how much work you did that others might not have to do………..

Harddrive.2738:

When giving people a choice and they assume the “troll” option, what does that tell us?

Think about it, if you already have a 150 II or close enough, why are you in the form? It has nothing to do with you and changes nothing to your ability to obtain the armor. AkA your just complaining cause you can, AKA troll.

If not a troll, you should be making your own topic to complain about the collection as a whole.

Your welcome to try and give a flip side point back that I haven’t considered, but I suspect they’ll mostly just be off topic or just personal complaints about how much work you did that others might not have to do………..

You keep using the word troll.

You might be slightly confusing that for genuinely disagree and voicing their opinion in an open forum.

I know that’s hard to believe that people simply don’t agree with you, however its far more likely to believe that than believe everyone is a troll.

Now then, several people have stated some very valid reasons for not making this an evening affair. You happen to disagree with that and that’s fine. Notice they have not resorted to ad-hominem attacks.

There’s even the few indifferent folks who have given proposals for solutions that don’t outright come with the lower the amount, but instead give people an incentive to replay the content which brings more people into the raid.

Now then, where is your plan that solves the perceived problem of this “grind”. Note, that merely changing the numbers to be lower won’t reduce the “grind” as you are still doing the same task weekly to achieve a desired outcome. That in and of itself is the very definition of a grind. So please explain how you plan to reduce the grind and not devalue the gameplay experience.

Sure I’ll go back 1 page and repost.

Harddrive.2738:

I personally have no issue with it being 150 LI, but they need to add ways to increase the drop rate.

I personally think it should be more of a daily with weekly caps but letting us convert shards is sensible also.

If you could buy LI for 30 shards, that is +5 a week. For a time gate, telling people they need to kill on average 4 bosses a week is obtainable, but still a fair amount of work.

4+5(shards) = 9 = ~4 months. That is practical (but still annoyingly long).
Those that do kill all 9 in guilds +5 = 14 = ~2.5 months, which is still sensible for a time gate.

And I am perfectly fine with letting people get more insights in a week (as well as giving incentive to help out after first kills) so long as you get all the bosses down first.

Azoqu.8917:

I like the fact that it requires 150 LI. It keeps it mostly in the hands of better players by making it super expensive to buy that many. Now I could get behind speeding up the process by allowing you to get a second insight off each boss so long as you have killed everything. So if you killed all the bosses you could go fight trio again for another LI. Then in order to get a 3rd insight off of trio you would need to complete all the bosses again.

I am just really hoping that in the second achievement for the precursor armor that there is a set that requires personal skill that no one can help you with so that anyone in the armor you know is a good player.

You wanting to lower the LI requirement and thus decreasing the perceived value of legendary armor to me is not “nothing”.

You wanting instant gratification and casualizing the requirements of the armor just because of your inability to obtain 150 LIs is not “nothing”.

Sure the raiders who are close to 150 or have 150 already will get the armor first but there is nothing stopping you from getting your armor a few months later if you’re a bit slower. Do you seriously believe you deserve the legendary armor because you raided for a few weeks instead of putting in effort over 4 months or more?

Most of my casual friends who work full time understand that getting the armor will be a long journey and somewhat difficult. They know it will take them longer than 4 months but they realize that it is a long term goal and instead of complaining they just try to raid what they can and save up insights. Most of them are around 50-80 insights and they don’t complain because they think it is fair that only the most hardcore rushing people get it first.

When I was making Ad Infinitum I was late to the party and made it 3 weeks after everyone who rushed did. Did I complain about the timegates? No. I didn’t start on time and didn’t keep doing fractals, it was entirely my fault. I didn’t deserve to have it as fast as the people who kept up doing dailies. It is the same in raids, people who don’t bother getting 150 LI don’t deserve the armor. Simple.

Harddrive.2738:

You want a skill based collection for legendary armor/items, isn’t that nice. You should go make a thread about that.

People are only for keeping it at 150 LI because they have some silly disillusion that its the only way to justify the title of “legendary”.

Anyone not in that category is either a troll, full sour apples, or as someone pointed out in it for the money.

Everyone wins (or at worst shouldn’t care) by lowering the cost or making the drop rate of LI increase. You’ll have more LI then everyone else to buy other stuff in the future or they will sit around and do nothing, something thats going to happen either way.

P.S Its unlikely we will get another raid wing for some time now, probably with the next expansion at earliest.

How about they reduce the amount of mats you need? Everone wins by loweing the cost or making the drop rate of MATERIALS increase.

At first I was thinking that 150 LI is a really big amount, 90 would make more sense.

What I didn’t take into account back then was, 150 LI is for the WHOLE armor. With PvP backpiece, you need 60 days of ranked PvP (10 weeks timegate, if you’re counting the off-season down time) to craft A SINGLE piece of equipment. While for armor you only need 3 weeks to craft A SINGLE piece of equipment.

To be honest? I’m more worried about all those Gifts the armor will require ._.

P.S. it would be interesting if they make each piece require different amount of LI. Like the chest require 50 while glove maybe only require 10. I think that could reinforce the fact that the armor may be crafted one by one.

LegACy.1296:

To be honest? I’m more worried about all those Gifts the armor will require ._.

The biggest cost is 6 Gifts of Condensed might, and Condensed magic. http://dulfy.net/2016/06/17/gw2-legendary-armor-collection-crafting-guide/ Mostly everything else is time investment.

LegACy.1296:

At first I was thinking that 150 LI is a really big amount, 90 would make more sense.

What I didn’t take into account back then was, 150 LI is for the WHOLE armor. With PvP backpiece, you need 60 days of ranked PvP (10 weeks timegate, if you’re counting the off-season down time) to craft A SINGLE piece of equipment. While for armor you only need 3 weeks to craft A SINGLE piece of equipment.

To be honest? I’m more worried about all those Gifts the armor will require ._.

P.S. it would be interesting if they make each piece require different amount of LI. Like the chest require 50 while glove maybe only require 10. I think that could reinforce the fact that the armor may be crafted one by one.

Exactly. I think that is what a lot of other people QQing in this thread are missing too. This is for an entire armor set, 6 legendaries. Its incredibly cheap as it is to only require 150 LI. But so many people in this thread are reacting as if its 150 LI to craft 1 legendary item. It isn’t, you get 6 out of it. Regardless of whether or not you craft all 6 at once (you don’t) you still get 6 legendaries out of this deal. It shouldn’t be cheap. It shouldn’t be something you can collect the time gated materials in 1 month. Its 6 kitten legendaries, not just 1.

The time investment is by far the issue. By almost every standards it will be the limiting factor by a large margarine.

Kill 1 boss a week = 3.125 Years
Kill 2 bosses a week = 1.56 Years
Kill 4 bosses a week = 9.37 Months
Kill 6 bosses a week= 6.25 Months
Kill 8 bosses a week = 4.68 Months
Kill 9 bosses a week = 4.17 Months

Legendary armor is a huge selling point for anet, by putting it behind a massive time gate like that will absolutely kill any hope of newer and older players trying.

They already cancelled normal legendary weapon production, you really think raids will stay in production if it doesn’t have the player base behind it?

Again, you should count it for EACH armor piece:

Kill 9 bosses a week = 3 weeks
Kill 8 bosses a week = 4 weeks
Kill 6 bosses a week = 5 weeks
Kill 4 bosses a week = 7 weeks
Kill 2 bosses a week = 3 months
Kill 1 boss a week = 6 months

But then again, you CANNOT craft the legendary armor if you haven’t killed the 9 bosses of raid. If you have killed all 9 bosses, I really, really doubt that you’re only going to kill 1 or 2 bosses each week.

Well maybe you should start now while it’s still not out for another few months instead of complaining.

Saying we killed all 9 bosses and saying we can kill all 9 bosses every week are NOT the same thing.

Most players do no have a raid guild, its pretty unlikely most have the time or the luck to get 9 kills in 1 week due to the nature of pugs. I’d estimate most will only be able to get 4-6 average.

P.S Why would you bother thinking of it as 6 pieces, its exactly the same math divided by 6. Only reason you’d do it is because the smaller number sounds better, but means absolutely nothing because we want the SET.

You acquire each piece individually you don’t magically get them as a set of legendary armor, what don’t you understand about that?

Harddrive.2738:

Saying we killed all 9 bosses and saying we can kill all 9 bosses every week are NOT the same thing.

They weren’t saying it was the same thing. Read their post again.

Harddrive.2738:

Most players do no have a raid guild, its pretty unlikely most have the time or the luck to get 9 kills in 1 week due to the nature of pugs. I’d estimate most will only be able to get 4-6 average.

Which is a pretty good average.

Harddrive.2738:

P.S Why would you bother thinking of it as 6 pieces, its exactly the same math divided by 6. Only reason you’d do it is because the smaller number sounds better, but means absolutely nothing because we want the SET.

You craft the legendary armor pieces separately. You equip the legendary armor pieces separately. It’s no different that doing the same as the backpacks and weapons. I’ll be no different than the trinkets when they’re eventually released. You’re just lumping them together into the larger number because it makes your argument sound better.

Harddrive.2738:

Saying we killed all 9 bosses and saying we can kill all 9 bosses every week are NOT the same thing.

Most players do no have a raid guild, its pretty unlikely most have the time or the luck to get 9 kills in 1 week due to the nature of pugs. I’d estimate most will only be able to get 4-6 average.

P.S Why would you bother thinking of it as 6 pieces, its exactly the same math divided by 6. Only reason you’d do it is because the smaller number sounds better, but means absolutely nothing because we want the SET.

You “bother” to think of it as 6 separate pieces because it is 6 separate pieces. Its not a legendary outfit, its a legendary set of armor. It it quite literally 6 different legendaries pieces that you can use at your will. Of course it should have more time gating than what a single legendary item has. That just makes sense. You are getting 6 of them after all

Harddrive.2738:

I personally have no issue with it being 150 LI, but they need to add ways to increase the drop rate.

I personally think it should be more of a daily with weekly caps but letting us convert shards is sensible also.

If you could buy LI for 30 shards, that is +5 a week. For a time gate, telling people they need to kill on average 4 bosses a week is obtainable, but still a fair amount of work.

4+5(shards) = 9 = ~4 months. That is practical (but still annoyingly long).
Those that do kill all 9 in guilds +5 = 14 = ~2.5 months, which is still sensible for a time gate.

Harddrive.2738:

When giving people a choice and they assume the “troll” option, what does that tell us?

Think about it, if you already have a 150 II or close enough, why are you in the form? It has nothing to do with you and changes nothing to your ability to obtain the armor. AkA your just complaining cause you can, AKA troll.

You know what I think is a good example for behaving like a “troll”? If you keep repeating the same few arguments again and again and just ignore the counter-arguments, like you (and a few others) do it. There were a lot of people who explained why they think 150 LI are fine and why they shouldn´t be lowered or easier to obtain. They brought substantive arguments and were far away from trolling. I even gave you some metaphors to paraphrase what we´re talking about. But let me repeat it once more, just for you:

Issue 1: Are 150 LI suitable to prove skill or just “grind”/ a time gate?

Of course they are suitable to prove skill, because you need to kill as much bosses as you can if you want to reach the required LI in a reasonable amount of time.

timson.4356:

Skill also means to be capable to replicate a good performance again and again. That´s what capacity means.
Am I a good basketballer if I´m able to hit the basketball basket from close distance a few times? Not really!
Am I a good basketballer if I´m able to reliable hit it 150 times from close, middle and long distance? Yes!

But are 150 LI really necessary to show skill, isn´t it “grind”?

First of all: It´s kind of subjective what feels like grind to you. And I believe that it can feel like grind sometimes, if you try to pug all LI with different people. But it won´t feel like grind if you collect the LI the way they were intended and form up a group / join a guild. It´ll become an enjoyable adventure then.
And secondly: The number of 150 LI maybe wouldn´t be inevitable if people had to kill all bosses several times anyways. But based on the aforementioned reasons it´s still the most reliable way to prove skill, particularly because there are possibilities to shirk some demands/bosses. Especially if you´d lower LI, what leads us to the next problem:

Issue 2: Why don´t just lower the required LI or make them easier to obtain in order to reduce the time gate?

Because aside from the fact that everyone had the same chances to form a group and start raiding successfully right from the beginning & the fact that time gates are a natural component of long-term goals, there is nearly no way to reduce the time gate without increasing the possibilities to shirk bosses and therefor also lower the required skill.

If you lower required LI, a lot of people would just do the easy bosses and/or buy LI. And people would do that, I heard there are some who are willing to spend ~ £2000 for the armor. The only thing that prevents a lot of people from buying LI is the fact they couldn´t afford enough gold for 150 LI.

Same if you´d make them easier to obtain. If you´d introduce the possibility to kill bosses daily (even with weekly cap), people would kill Mc Leod seven times a week + Trio a few times.
If you´d introduce the possibility to buy LI with shards, people would also just kill the easy bosses, maybe fail around a bit at the other ones and buy them. And your suggestion to sell them for 15-30 shards/LI is really risible. Remember: Even useless Minis cost 300 shards + 1 gold each.
The only thing one could think about would be the possibility to buy one additional LI/wing after you killed all 3 bosses for like 300-500 shards (what´s the normal price for Raid-stuff). That would give people the possibility to earn a few more LI without lowering the required effort all too much.

Issue 3: Isn´t the collection enough to prove skill?

No, it´s simply not. Most parts are pretty easy to collect and the other ones could be bought easily.

Issue 4: Why would it devalue the armor if it would be easier to obtain? Are people who raid successfully just selfish/begrudging?

Yes it would and no their not. Rarity is a basic component of value. And those who have more skill or invested more effort than others deserve it to get a valuable reward. For your visualization:

timson.4356:

Imagine you would climb the Mount Everest with a group of like-minded people. You affronted all dangers and overcome all obstacles. When you finally reach the top – what an amazing feeling!
Would it feel the same if you were brought up by a helicopter? I´m sure it would not.

May you would argue that no one forces you to use the helicopter? Well, that´s right. But bear in mind that if you climbed the Everest, you surely want to take a photo so that you will keep in mind your moment of victory for all days. And does it feel the same if you look at the photo and there are 100 people standing around on top with you – all brought up by helicopters? No, it doesn´t!

So please stop asking Anet for helicopters, start to train so that one day you can climb the Everest by yourself. I promise you – it will feel amazing!

Issue 5: So isn´t there any way to arbitrate between the parties?

Not really. The one and only argument against 150 LI is the ambition to make the Armor easier to obtain, so that more people can get the armor. But that´s exactly what those who crave for a really exclusive reward and a worthwhile long-term goal want to avoid. There´s no way to make it more accessible without making it less desirable for those who are willing to invest real effort.

So the only way I see to dissolve this dilemma would be, if Anet introduces a second Legendary Armor with another skin. This Armor could include a few faceroll collections and tons of mats and gold, just like Legendary Weapons. This way both parties would be happy, those who want a challenge and an exclusive reward and those who just want a Legendary Armor as soon as possible and as easy as possible.

One group seeks to maintain the value of what they got and the others with less seek to increase the value of theres.ye grind is subjective,it all depends what end of it your standing how you see it.you done your grind and dont see why others should skip any of it.im on 52 insights and il probably see it same way as you in 11 weeks.leave it as it is
new folk wont find raids and the rewards so attractive and with luck raids go away.

Legendary armor is just that: a thing to farm, to put your mind on. Of all legendary pieces it’s one of the lowest in viability, cause runes are so often needed to be switching.

For me legendary weapons (that are suspended in production), are a goal to work towards to.

As a PvX player, wvw completion never bothered me, it was a nice completion. But here comes the hugely important part for the Raid hardcore ppl in this tread (with 60+ LI) defending 150 LI. When they nerfed it so that wvw map completion is NOT necessary for legendary, was I dissapointed? A little bit. Do I think it’s the wrong decision, even though i loved that part about legendaries? Nope, absolutely not. It doesn’t affect my playstyle, and meanwhile more people can at least ‘hope’ to make a legendary. 150 LI is same thing (and even worse in some kind). With good planning i could do wvw completion in 2-4 weeks. 150 LI (with the have LI or get kicked nature, with the guilds not accepting non represent, i can go on, but basically superior hard to get in adequate (not 10x noob ppl) raids, then 150 is to much. Same issue with Wvw. Good servers had it relatively easy. Bad servers had a disaster. Same thing exists for raids. In dungeons/fractals if you (20% of group) play superiorly well, you can compensate for them and still make it succeed. For Raids you only count for 10%, and mechanics are direct (fail them 1x and could be wipe already). You basically count on all other players not making a mistake, rather then just playing well.

Either way, as it stands, Legendary armor is way expensive (atm) to get for me, i know it won’t get cheaper, but perhaps, my other ‘investment’ plans wil be completed someday so I can go for one. Still the LI thingy is ‘elite’ in nature. Kinda: Vizunah square (old days) , SFR, etc or gtfo for map completion. Finding ‘right’ people = issue (and again ppl who had the ‘start up hype on raids should be exluded from forming opinions, they joined the LI train so fast they cannot ’fail’ anymore to find parties with that amount of ‘proof’ of their skill. The people behind (like me with 11), just do not get into proper parties. People with 60 LI cannot share this experience, simply cause they don’t have it. They cannot know/talk about how easy it is to join raid with 0-19 LI, and No Eternal. They just cant. And that lack of empathy is dishearthening.

‘but but make your own group’ (other players posting this), tried this, and failed for the 100th time. Not correct time for guildies, friends all in a raid team that exludes me on the grounds of LI requirement. I don’t have The Eternal (only an inch away from it, someone died at 97% hp removed Sabetha).

Funny fact: in raids i have more proper gear (Ascended, expensive runes like Berserker), better food (toxic focussing crystal) as most people. And no this is’nt pay to win, just realizing my duty for the team.

PS I got enough ‘goals to achieve in gw2’ to be able to ignore raids atm and still like the game enough to play it. The message that Anet gives me: ‘you won’t get legendary armor anyway, so don’t even try to come raids, it’s your best choice’. A bit of a weird hidden message don’t you think?

Or let the elite player in me arise (very small % of me): LI requirement is crazy high (150)? Reintroduce wvw map completion! Require it for EVERY legendary armor piece. It must be ‘LEGENDARY’ right (Argument of LI 60+ crowd)? I would have no problem with it I play enough wvw to have an easy enough time to get it. And here is where all this ‘defenders of 150 LI’-situation is so twisted: it’s elitary and selfish. I’m not that kind of person, so I distance myself from it. Hence I here admit the above proposal was hypothetical only, I would never want it in the game, even if it somehow helps me feel more exlusive (i get legendary armor and others not). That feeling is just, plain wrong, and to many 60+ LI holders in this thread are suspect to wanting to being exclusive.

Comparing LIs to WvW map comp is a bit of a stretch. LIs can be obtained within raids to get legendary armor for raids, completely in raids.

Map comp in WvW had no relation to PvE at all which is what the rest of the legendary basically was.

Even then, WvW is somewhat a PvP mode so of course it was far more difficult to get full map comps since it required both a decent team on your side to take objectives and the other side to not be able to defend theirs.

The only thing stopping you from getting LIs however, is yourself.

How can it be that in a 10 man raid were to most the single biggest problem by far is finding 9 other players familiar with the mechanics that the ONLY thing holding a player back from getting 150 insights is themselves.

Finding 9 other people is entirely possible and on you to do so. I’ve done it, many others have done it and continue to do it. If all of you spent half the time posting on here to find and form a proper team you’d have 150 insights by now probably.

This isn’t like WvW where you need a blob to take objectives and hoping you have more people than the other side.

i didnt say it was not possible to find 9 other players to do a raid,i said a lot of players find it a problem,maybe even the biggest problem when raiding.and that makes grinding out 150 insights more time consuming for some than others,raids and these insights arnt something you can work on yourself unlike map completion.haveing grind tied to needing 9 other people to do it with adds a new dimension to the grind and will extend the time gate.a highly skilled player without a static could take way longer to get his insights than a low skilled player with a static.
thats not exactly rewarding skill is it.

eldrin.6471:

One group seeks to maintain the value of what they got and the others with less seek to increase the value of theres.ye grind is subjective,it all depends what end of it your standing how you see it.you done your grind and dont see why others should skip any of it.im on 52 insights and il probably see it same way as you in 11 weeks.leave it as it is
new folk wont find raids and the rewards so attractive and with luck raids go away.

When most people started raiding legendary armor was so far off that no one thought about it. If there had never been legendary armor I don’t think the number of raiders would be much less. Lots of raiders aren’t even going to get the legendary armor, at least for a long time. It’s a sizable gold investment, especially if the skin isn’t very good, and it’s almost identical to an ascended set unless it has some good utility with runes. I actually think it’s funny how much some people think that legendary armor is all that people want with raids, because it’s really just a raid skin that costs 4k+ gold.

On a related note, I’m really wondering how many players out there would actually make the armor sooner if the insight count were lowered, versus those that would still have to wait a long kitten time to farm all the gold. I think the insight count is probably too high just because the rest of the collection takes so much less time, but realistically the gold cost is probably just a difficult/grindy for a lot of people.

eldrin.6471:

a highly skilled player without a static could take way longer to get his insights than a low skilled player with a static.
thats not exactly rewarding skill is it.

Like it or not, being good at social interaction is a skill in this game. Effective communication is important for any group-based content. There have been plenty of people on these forums that rage and talk all sorts of bullcrap and it’s not surprising to me at all that they are complaining about not being able to get a group, lol.

fishball.7204:

The only thing stopping you from getting LIs however, is yourself.

Says the guy in one of the next two luxury spots:

Joined raid guild before Vale guardian launch. Had all LI up till now cause of perfect preperation. Never gets kicked cause 60+ LI

Or 450+ member guild with enough people, that are ‘hardened’ enough for raids, to organize and succeed one. Not everyone has this luxury. Guilds like this, usually play very few wvw/pvp. No guild is perfect for all following aspects: Guild mission, pvp, pve, dungeons ,fractals, wvw, raid, world bosses, living story, etc. The 450+ guilds that do raids usually lack in pvp, wvw and living story. (I know it from own experience, i researched many guilds CAUSE OF THIS HUGE ’can’t join raid’-problem).

Join a small guild, or a pvp (represent guild) or wvw, or a dungeon/fractal focussed guild, and then talk to me about raids. Next to impossible to join.

fishball.7204:

The only thing stopping you from getting LIs however, is yourself.

Let’s proof you wrong. I do the only thing possible: I join a Lfg after hours and hours of trying that doenst kick me for having 11 LI. 2 people fail 8 vale guardians in a row to stand on green spot in time. I don’t fail ever. The group gets frustrated and disbands. ‘The only thing stopping you from getting LI, is yourself’… right heh? I did my job for VG and still the boss failed + LI failed.

To many people in luxury positions here. I would like Anet to temporary disband all guilds and making a guild. Then see how hardened these LI defenders are to purely LFG form groups. They would epic fail hard. And again this proofs the problem. Good guild = lucky. Wrong guild = bad luck. Most good guilds are closed now for recruitment (to much raiders already), etc. Or have a lot of drama (i don’t game for drama). The guilds closest to perfect i could guess are the ones like Aurora peachy has. She’s a good, (but lets admit it not ‘very good’) player. Yet she still got all raid bosses done without problem. Cause her guild is just (probably) very motivated, focussed and tolerates all kind of people. Stop thinking it’s easy to get in a raid viable guild, it’s not, not if you play all game modes.

Phoebe Ascension.8437:

fishball.7204:

The only thing stopping you from getting LIs however, is yourself.

Says the guy in one of the next two luxury spots:

Joined raid guild before Vale guardian launch. Had all LI up till now cause of perfect preperation. Never gets kicked cause 60+ LI

Or 450+ member guild with enough people, that are ‘hardened’ enough for raids, to organize and succeed one. Not everyone has this luxury. Guilds like this, usually play very few wvw/pvp. No guild is perfect for all following aspects: Guild mission, pvp, pve, dungeons ,fractals, wvw, raid, world bosses, living story, etc. The 450+ guilds that do raids usually lack in pvp, wvw and living story. (I know it from own experience, i researched many guilds CAUSE OF THIS HUGE ’can’t join raid’-problem).

Join a small guild, or a pvp (represent guild) or wvw, or a dungeon/fractal focussed guild, and then talk to me about raids. Next to impossible to join.

fishball.7204:

The only thing stopping you from getting LIs however, is yourself.

Let’s proof you wrong. I do the only thing possible: I join a Lfg after hours and hours of trying that doenst kick me for having 11 LI. 2 people fail 8 vale guardians in a row to stand on green spot in time. I don’t fail ever. The group gets frustrated and disbands. ‘The only thing stopping you from getting LI, is yourself’… right heh? I did my job for VG and still the boss failed + LI failed.

To many people in luxury positions here. I would like Anet to temporary disband all guilds and making a guild. Then see how hardened these LI defenders are to purely LFG form groups. They would fail epic fail hard. And again this proofs the problem. Good guild = lucky. Wrong guild = bad luck. Most good guilds are closed now for recruitment (to much raiders already), etc. Or have a lot of drama (i don’t game for drama). The guilds closest to perfect i could guess are the ones like Aurora peachy has. She’s a good, (but lets admit it not ‘very good’) player. Yet she still got all raid bosses done without problem. Cause her guild is just (probably) yummy. Stop thinking it’s easy to get in a raid viable guild, it’s not, not if you play all game modes.

How most guilds are closed for recruit?? There are posts everyday on reddit gw2recruitment, i started looking for guild to raid 3 weeks ago, i joined three, one raid at daily basis on the ’first 10 to come join". And another one i got an official spot on the weekly full clear. And i joined all of them while having only 6 LI from pugs.

Phoebe Ascension.8437:

fishball.7204:

The only thing stopping you from getting LIs however, is yourself.

Says the guy in one of the next two luxury spots:

Joined raid guild before Vale guardian launch. Had all LI up till now cause of perfect preperation. Never gets kicked cause 60+ LI

Or 450+ member guild with enough people, that are ‘hardened’ enough for raids, to organize and succeed one. Not everyone has this luxury. Guilds like this, usually play very few wvw/pvp. No guild is perfect for all following aspects: Guild mission, pvp, pve, dungeons ,fractals, wvw, raid, world bosses, living story, etc. The 450+ guilds that do raids usually lack in pvp, wvw and living story. (I know it from own experience, i researched many guilds CAUSE OF THIS HUGE ’can’t join raid’-problem).

Technically, everyone have the luxury to create their own LFG group

(Oh BTW, you’re missing another type of person, the one like me who simply pug and killed 4-5 bosses each week)

Dinosaurs.8674:

eldrin.6471:

One group seeks to maintain the value of what they got and the others with less seek to increase the value of theres.ye grind is subjective,it all depends what end of it your standing how you see it.you done your grind and dont see why others should skip any of it.im on 52 insights and il probably see it same way as you in 11 weeks.leave it as it is
new folk wont find raids and the rewards so attractive and with luck raids go away.

When most people started raiding legendary armor was so far off that no one thought about it. If there had never been legendary armor I don’t think the number of raiders would be much less. Lots of raiders aren’t even going to get the legendary armor, at least for a long time. It’s a sizable gold investment, especially if the skin isn’t very good, and it’s almost identical to an ascended set unless it has some good utility with runes. I actually think it’s funny how much some people think that legendary armor is all that people want with raids, because it’s really just a raid skin that costs 4k+ gold.

On a related note, I’m really wondering how many players out there would actually make the armor sooner if the insight count were lowered, versus those that would still have to wait a long kitten time to farm all the gold. I think the insight count is probably too high just because the rest of the collection takes so much less time, but realistically the gold cost is probably just a difficult/grindy for a lot of people.

eldrin.6471:

a highly skilled player without a static could take way longer to get his insights than a low skilled player with a static.
thats not exactly rewarding skill is it.

Like it or not, being good at social interaction is a skill in this game. Effective communication is important for any group-based content. There have been plenty of people on these forums that rage and talk all sorts of bullcrap and it’s not surprising to me at all that they are complaining about not being able to get a group, lol.

As a player with Asperger syndrome the social interaction skills sort of lock me out.
and before raids social skills were not needed to get the best gear,i could play the game my way and get the stuff i wanted.now i am faced with pay for runs if i want legendary armour or be left behind as folk get the new best gear.I am actually angry with anet that after playing since launch i got to pay over£3000 to get gear they locked me out of.
im also ashamed of myself for paying it.and the games not so fun no more.

eldrin.6471:

Dinosaurs.8674:

eldrin.6471:

One group seeks to maintain the value of what they got and the others with less seek to increase the value of theres.ye grind is subjective,it all depends what end of it your standing how you see it.you done your grind and dont see why others should skip any of it.im on 52 insights and il probably see it same way as you in 11 weeks.leave it as it is
new folk wont find raids and the rewards so attractive and with luck raids go away.

When most people started raiding legendary armor was so far off that no one thought about it. If there had never been legendary armor I don’t think the number of raiders would be much less. Lots of raiders aren’t even going to get the legendary armor, at least for a long time. It’s a sizable gold investment, especially if the skin isn’t very good, and it’s almost identical to an ascended set unless it has some good utility with runes. I actually think it’s funny how much some people think that legendary armor is all that people want with raids, because it’s really just a raid skin that costs 4k+ gold.

On a related note, I’m really wondering how many players out there would actually make the armor sooner if the insight count were lowered, versus those that would still have to wait a long kitten time to farm all the gold. I think the insight count is probably too high just because the rest of the collection takes so much less time, but realistically the gold cost is probably just a difficult/grindy for a lot of people.

eldrin.6471:

a highly skilled player without a static could take way longer to get his insights than a low skilled player with a static.
thats not exactly rewarding skill is it.

Like it or not, being good at social interaction is a skill in this game. Effective communication is important for any group-based content. There have been plenty of people on these forums that rage and talk all sorts of bullcrap and it’s not surprising to me at all that they are complaining about not being able to get a group, lol.

As a player with Asperger syndrome the social interaction skills sort of lock me out.
and before raids social skills were not needed to get the best gear,i could play the game my way and get the stuff i wanted.now i am faced with pay for runs if i want legendary armour or be left behind as folk get the new best gear.I am actually angry with anet that after playing since launch i got to pay over£3000 to get gear they locked me out of.
im also ashamed of myself for paying it.and the games not so fun no more.

Many groups don’t require players to speak but only listen.

Anet is not forcing you to spend that much real life money. You’re making that choice all in your own.

At no point did i say i was forced.i played this game for thousands of hrs and it was a harmless addiction.its not harmless no more.well not for me.and at this stage its hard to walk away from.

eldrin.6471:

At no point did i say i was forced.i played this game for thousands of hrs and it was a harmless addiction.its not harmless no more.well not for me.and at this stage its hard to walk away from.

You kind of did.

eldrin.6471:

i am faced with pay for runs if i want legendary armour or be left behind as folk get the new best gear.I am actually angry with anet that after playing since launch i got to pay over£3000 to get gear they locked me out of.

You’re making the choice to spend real life money. You’re acting like it’s your only option when it is not. You don’t actually have to speak when on TS except for a few groups.

eldrin.6471:

Dinosaurs.8674:

eldrin.6471:

One group seeks to maintain the value of what they got and the others with less seek to increase the value of theres.ye grind is subjective,it all depends what end of it your standing how you see it.you done your grind and dont see why others should skip any of it.im on 52 insights and il probably see it same way as you in 11 weeks.leave it as it is
new folk wont find raids and the rewards so attractive and with luck raids go away.

When most people started raiding legendary armor was so far off that no one thought about it. If there had never been legendary armor I don’t think the number of raiders would be much less. Lots of raiders aren’t even going to get the legendary armor, at least for a long time. It’s a sizable gold investment, especially if the skin isn’t very good, and it’s almost identical to an ascended set unless it has some good utility with runes. I actually think it’s funny how much some people think that legendary armor is all that people want with raids, because it’s really just a raid skin that costs 4k+ gold.

On a related note, I’m really wondering how many players out there would actually make the armor sooner if the insight count were lowered, versus those that would still have to wait a long kitten time to farm all the gold. I think the insight count is probably too high just because the rest of the collection takes so much less time, but realistically the gold cost is probably just a difficult/grindy for a lot of people.

eldrin.6471:

a highly skilled player without a static could take way longer to get his insights than a low skilled player with a static.
thats not exactly rewarding skill is it.

Like it or not, being good at social interaction is a skill in this game. Effective communication is important for any group-based content. There have been plenty of people on these forums that rage and talk all sorts of bullcrap and it’s not surprising to me at all that they are complaining about not being able to get a group, lol.

As a player with Asperger syndrome the social interaction skills sort of lock me out.
and before raids social skills were not needed to get the best gear,i could play the game my way and get the stuff i wanted.now i am faced with pay for runs if i want legendary armour or be left behind as folk get the new best gear.I am actually angry with anet that after playing since launch i got to pay over£3000 to get gear they locked me out of.
im also ashamed of myself for paying it.and the games not so fun no more.

I don’t mean that you have to be a master of charisma, you just have to not be unpleasant to be around. Don’t rage at people, accept responsibility for mistakes, just generally have a good attitude. Lots of people I play with will rarely talk (only for vital stuff like “need one more on green”) and it’s perfectly enjoyable. If you’re a decent player and people don’t dislike you, then they will want to play with you again even if you’re not bffs lol. I’m not going to pretend to know what you have to deal with having aspergers, but I don’t think it’s unreasonable that a static group (or any group really) would expect a certain level of courtesy out of its members.

I also don’t think it’s fair to judge this game based on the solo experience; it is called “guild wars” after all, guilds are a basic structure in the game and a certain level of socialization is required to take advantage of them fully. If you’re serious about being “ashamed” and not having fun in the game then play something else, or take a break. I’m not saying some “lol k just leave” garbage, but I’ve quit/taken breaks from games in the past because they just stopped being enjoyable and I was only playing out of habit at that point, and it made me much happier. I mostly quit playing dota to play gw2 because dealing with people in dota was causing me so much stress. GW2 doesn’t really have as much of a hardcore scene but despite what you see on these forums, people in gw2 are generally very helpful and friendly relative to other games and that’s valuable to me, so I continue to enjoy playing.

im not on 300mg quetiapine a day for my ability to make good choices.
as i said in all the time playing this game i had never faced some thing i was totally locked out of. the moneys spent no point crying over spilt milk.il buy the runs get the armour.
you talk of options,dont judge a man till you lived in his head for a couple hours lol.

eldrin.6471:

im not on 300mg quetiapine a day for my ability to make good choices.
as i said in all the time playing this game i had never faced some thing i was totally locked out of. the moneys spent no point crying over spilt milk.il buy the runs get the armour.
you talk of options,dont judge a man till you lived in his head for a couple hours lol.

You do still have options. You don’t actually have to speak in TS. Unless there’s more to it than speaking, you should do just fine.

You know what I think is a good example for behaving like a “troll”? If you keep repeating the same few arguments again and again and just ignore the counter-arguments, like you (and a few others) do it. There were a lot of people who explained why they think 150 LI are fine and why they shouldn´t be lowered or easier to obtain. They brought substantive arguments and were far away from trolling

I say the same things over and over cause you HAVEN"T made any counter points as I have said so many times explained.

“Its legendary so it should be hard, we can’t just give it away”, or “the amount of time I put in is equal to the current cost, I’d feel like I lost value if it was now lowered”.

Your counter arguments are just complaints at the larger collection being to easy or just a personalized complaint about apparent value from your perspective. They have little (tangent) or nothing to do with this the topic at hand.

So rather then RANT for long paragraphs at a time where know one cares to read said RANT which has the organisational train thought of a 5th grader; In ~3 sentences or less STATE your so called counter point.

Why is making the time gate for the AVERAGE player equal to 4 months so bad?

Harddrive.2738:

Why is making the time gate for the AVERAGE player equal to 4 months so bad?

I don’t need three sentences, I only need one:

Raids were never catered to the average player.

I get that it’s a tough pill to swallow. Deal with it.

If the average player wants to earn the reward in the same time as the dedicated players, they know what to do. If they don’t want to do it, or can’t due to x, y, or z reason, tough luck.

Dropped in to see how discussion goes. Same old elitists and raid sellers zerg on eldrin. If you expect to make any valid conversation here its is not possible. literally if u go from start to end this is what u can read:
I have 150 li its fine.
Ill ask you question. If u imagine person who is sick and can play focused 1-2h per day max , should we disreggard that person to and say , who cares let him grind for year ? Is this “i have none else should” attitude we see here what community of players is ?
Why is there not single one post saying, hey i see u have hard time to do 9 bosses week , if you cant contact me to help im in skilled raid guild and we help players like u?

ryandeniszorro.6735:

Dropped in to see how discussion goes. Same old elitists and raid sellers zerg on eldrin. If you expect to make any valid conversation here its is not possible. literally if u go from start to end this is what u can read:
I have 150 li its fine.
Ill ask you question. If u imagine person who is sick and can play focused 1-2h per day max , should we disreggard that person to and say , who cares let him grind for year ? Is this “i have none else should” attitude we see here what community of players is ?
Why is there not single one post saying, hey i see u have hard time to do 9 bosses week , if you cant contact me to help im in skilled raid guild and we help players like u?

your very right,before raids players helped each other.raids brought a horrible attitude in to this game.maybe these are not the same people used to play guild wars 2 the game every one said had the best community in all mmos.