Guild Wars 2

Dear Areanet,
I personally feel that this dungeon need some revamp,coz majority of the pple are just looking for mesmer and warr in gw2lfg.com for a speed run! Other classes need some love too!If this goes on, everyone will eventually roll only mesmer and warior!What’s the use of having other classes!

Rachel.1249:

What’s the use of having other classes!

Because this game is not Citadel of Flame Wars, its Guild Wars.

CoF p1 farmers, contrary to popular belief, are not the majority of players in this game.

Robert Hrouda.1327:

Sure revamping some bosses would be neat.

…but whats this about removing the boulders trap?

The fiery boulders after the acolyte slaying in CoF p1. I believe they think its only possible with a mesmer w/blink & portal, but its actually quite easy no matter the class.

Seriously, just make the bridge event mandatory in the short term before a full revamp and that will patch up a major part of the farming that goes on until the whole of the dungeon sees the revamp it was promised. I think that’d be a good compromise.

Rising Dusk.2408:

Seriously, just make the bridge event mandatory in the short term before a full revamp and that will patch up a major part of the farming that goes on until the whole of the dungeon sees the revamp it was promised. I think that’d be a good compromise.

http://youtu.be/umDr0mPuyQc

There’s also some professions that can just use teleport to easily pass the boulders (Elementalists, Thiefs, Mesmers if not using Portal (lol)).

CoF is obscenely fast regardless of the group. My pockmark groups with engineers and rangers and necromancers run CoF 1 in 8 minutes, which is only marginally slower than a truly optimized group with mesmers, warriors, and thieves. The problem is that CoF is too easy, too fast, and too profitable. Yes, I said it, it’s too profitable. There is zero reason to run any other dungeon unless you’re desperate for the skins. Hell, it’s even faster to farm CoF and buy other exotic armor stat combinations on the TP than to farm the dungeons that drop tokens which give those stat combinations!

I posted more about this the other week here.

Robert Hrouda.1327:

Sure revamping some bosses would be neat.

…but whats this about removing the boulders trap?

Im guessing that the point the poster was trying to make was that the boulder trap section of the dungeon is the only real reason people are looking specifically for mesmers for COF p1 runs. As you are aware, there is a period of a few seconds after the door opens before the torches and boulders spawn. It is child’s play for a mesmer to place portals BEFORE anything spawns in the room and then have the party simply port torches. It makes an interesting puzzle invalid and mindless.

Definitely agree with others that bosses in this dungeon need a serious look. When you have bosses dying in less than 10 seconds with no real threat to the party – throughout an entire dungeon path – combined with easily skippable trash and mechanics – it makes the entire dungeon a bit of a joke. When it is even faster for a specific profession (zerker warriors), it creates a larger issue.

Love the game, but I haven’t run this dungeon on principle (and I main a mesmer) since this started happening. It isn’t fun – its a gold grind.

What I would love to see is for you to make Half Baked Komali the first boss in this dungeon path. That would definitely make it harder to zerg down.

Avenge.1478:

Robert Hrouda.1327:

Sure revamping some bosses would be neat.

…but whats this about removing the boulders trap?

The fiery boulders after the acolyte slaying in CoF p1. I believe they think its only possible with a mesmer w/blink & portal, but its actually quite easy no matter the class.

Obviously, they should just make the tunnel longer and with a turn in it so you can’t run past them before they spawn as easily

At the end of the day, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with the fact that the game mechanics allow a mesmer to portal his/her party through the boulders. It’s just something that a mesmer can uniquely contribute to a party running this dungeon. There’s things a guardian is contributing that a mesmer can not, same goes for all professions.

Isn’t that why there’s different classes in any mmo? So that everyone can uniquely contribute something that perhaps another profession can not. GW2 may not have the holy trinity but each class still has its strengths and weaknesses when it comes to a given situation. How boring would it be if we were all the same?

Robert Hrouda.1327:

Sure revamping some bosses would be neat.

…but whats this about removing the boulders trap?

You guys overestimated the playerbase’s ability to play frogger.

Rachel.1249:

Dear Areanet,
I personally feel that this dungeon need some revamp,coz majority of the pple are just looking for mesmer and warr in gw2lfg.com for a speed run! Other classes need some love too!If this goes on, everyone will eventually roll only mesmer and warior!What’s the use of having other classes!

Dear Rachel,
people will just farm another dungeon with 4 war + 1 mesmer and you still won’t be invited.

Ohoni.6057:

I’m suspicious of any attempt to "revamp" CoF, as I imagine such changes would just make it harder and I have zero interest in having it be harder.

*sigh*

Its not just CoF that can be just mesmer and warriors Our group has managed to do every dungeon but arah with that group. If you want CoF find your own group of CoF you should have peeps you know by now that you can drag with and be like hey lets do it! There’s probably people who think just like you who still wants it but does not have the warrior or mesmer class for CoF. It is not just CoF either… soon just wait there’ll be speed of other runs people just want to get it done and be out. One is already in the making that of course is not CoF and Ele could easily take part in that dungeon that is in the making or guardian and it’ll still be a speed run.

Rather than removing the boulder trap, make it so that players cannot teleport past it, so that people actually have to learn how to do it, rather than relying on portal.

Agreed that CoF needs an overhaul, but I have to say I’m also happy that HotW path 1’s final boss can’t be glitched out anymore. Cheers for progress!

jameskelly.6310:

At the end of the day, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with the fact that the game mechanics allow a mesmer to portal his/her party through the boulders. It’s just something that a mesmer can uniquely contribute to a party running this dungeon. There’s things a guardian is contributing that a mesmer can not, same goes for all professions.

I’d say there’s just not enough unique situations like that though for the variety of classes. For this, I’d say try listing all the professions then note the situations across all paths where some mechanic favors the utility of that profession.

Solo.9027:

You guys overestimated the playerbase’s ability to play frogger.

Should be in SAB at the very least…

Vick.6805:

Rather than removing the boulder trap, make it so that players cannot teleport past it, so that people actually have to learn how to do it, rather than relying on portal.

Really like this idea. Leave it in the game. Or make the boulders start rolling earlier before the Mesmer has a chance to get across far enough for a Blink. (I’m not hating on Mesmers, I have one myself)

It’s not hard to do at all. Practice and patience. Taught 3 CoF newbies to do it last night. Took a few minutes for them to understand everything and help pass it.

I’m all for revamping CoF path 1. However, it needs to be a balanced change that still makes it worthwhile to run. For instance, I used to do all the AC paths pretty equally. Ever since the change, I only like to do 1 and 3, because it is unbelievably difficult to get a competent group for path 2.

Wor Machien.9657:

Vick.6805:

Rather than removing the boulder trap, make it so that players cannot teleport past it, so that people actually have to learn how to do it, rather than relying on portal.

Really like this idea. Leave it in the game. Or make the boulders start rolling earlier before the Mesmer has a chance to get across far enough for a Blink. (I’m not hating on Mesmers, I have one myself)

It’s not hard to do at all. Practice and patience. Taught 3 CoF newbies to do it last night. Took a few minutes for them to understand everything and help pass it.

Brainstorming:
What if you changed the tunnel to have an ‘molten aura’ in which you die instantly from the heat? Before entering, you have to be transformed into a fire elemental to proceed without being harmed by the heat but the boulders can still kill you. Rather than transporting 3 flames to the end of the tunnel, you have to transport 3 elementals (yourselves) to the end and each stand on the pedestals to deactivate the flaming magic.

So…
-you can only survive in the tunnel while transformed and deactivating the transform while in the tunnel = instant death
-while transformed, you have no access to other skills
-nothing cheap, 3 people must reach the end to deactivate the trap

I do worry what will happen if they revamp it. I see the bridge as a likely solution in the short term.

They will make the bridge part be impassable and either 1. give slight loot for completing it or 2. no loot at all. Unfortunately, they tend to gravitate towards fixes that are apathetic to the player base so I feel the latter is far more likely.

Also, there is the implication to what will happen to the economy when this method of funneling large amounts of gold into it is abruptly halted indefinitely. As far as other dungeons go, the amount of gold per minute is so disproportionate to CoF it is crazy.

Also, I enjoy challenging dungeons, but where is the fun? I like the loot, the loot is fun, but the dungeons lack a certain enjoyment like the first time I played the underwater fractal and got turned into a dolphin. Now that was fun.

the boulders do not need redone, there quite easy with or without a mesmer.

as for the speed runners there just a bunch of elitist jerks. you can still speed run p1 no matter the class you use. it may not be a 6 min run but it’s still darn fast.

if you’re having trouble with finding a group on gw2lfg, start your own group. i’ll be happy to bring my warrior to your party. have a ranger and guardian also so whatever u want me to use, i’m more then happy to help.

shambo.3842:

the boulders do not need redone, there quite easy with or without a mesmer.

The only thing that needs to be changed is the fiery boulders need to spawn and start moving BEFORE the rock door opens and players move in. That way, the encounter stays the same but all 5 players cant skip it entirely just because of group composition.

another cof1 nerf QQ thread makes me wonder WHO will gain the biggest advantage of scarcity of gold hmmmmm?

Rachel.1249:

Dear Areanet,
I personally feel that this dungeon need some revamp,coz majority of the pple are just looking for mesmer and warr in gw2lfg.com for a speed run! Other classes need some love too!If this goes on, everyone will eventually roll only mesmer and warior!What’s the use of having other classes!

No.

How about this reason: Get rid of the boulders because it’s yet another cheap insta-kill gimmick, something that shouldn’t be in this game at all. Same with those lasers in the Crucible, and the kill shot ability of a certain someone in that dungeon’s story mode.

How about this!

let’s make it so that other dungeons are equally as rewarding for your time!

(oh no it will crash the economy! nononononononoonononononono!)… nvm -_-

Blaeys.3102:

The only thing that needs to be changed is the fiery boulders need to spawn and start moving BEFORE the rock door opens and players move in. That way, the encounter stays the same but all 5 players cant skip it entirely just because of group composition.

This change wouldn’t have any noticeable effect on speedrunning. I’ve occasionally been called upon to create a portal when the boulders are rolling (e.g. because the group is full of newbies who ignored the first portal) and it works fine – a Mesmer can easily walk past the first one or two boulders and Blink past the remaining ones.

If you’re usin gw2lfg.com then you shouldn’t have any problem getting in a group with any class. There are a lot of nonelitism group out there.

False. Try playing an Engineer and using that website, you’ll wait for hours to get a group.

Negrul.5423:

False. Try playing an Engineer and using that website, you’ll wait for hours to get a group.

False. I’ve been using my engineer several times within the last few weeks and got into a group within minutes. I’d make my own if no one was posting and that, too, filled up quickly.

There are non-elitist groups out there. Just because you don’t see them at your own convenience doesn’t mean that they don’t exist. Be happy that the elitist groups aren’t taking you because those are probably the people you don’t want to be playing with anyways.

Seconded. I play an Engineer too and run CoF p1 + p2 pretty frequently. No idea about p1 farm parties as I get bored easily and do not want to get stuck with a group for too long. If you are not farming p1 extensively, you can easily find groups on gw2lfg who will not mind an Engineer.

Rachel.1249:

Dear Areanet,
I personally feel that this dungeon need some revamp,coz majority of the pple are just looking for mesmer and warr in gw2lfg.com for a speed run! Other classes need some love too!If this goes on, everyone will eventually roll only mesmer and warior!What’s the use of having other classes!

COF1 is the only method of making money in the game ive made 400g so far from this dungeon. Just make your own party if you dont like it

not true and ive made way more money in other areas of the game. pve related. non-tp. Its all about how often you farm, i use alts to my advantage so I am not DR’d, and area’s/dungeons you pick to farm.

CoF is possibly the best farm in game if you pug, but when you have core teams of 4 wars/1mes/1guard interchangably, the world is at your hands. The reason CoF wins is because zerker warriors flock here. If zerker warriors made a decision to flock to Dungeon “X” it would become the new moneymaker hands down.

How many times have you ran SE p3 with all zerker warriors? How many times have you ran coe p1 or p3 with all zerker warriors (1shot destroyer)? etc…. Its just the type of people looking to speedclear, have the best class in the game, etc goto COF. Its great, but Its not the only way of making money by far, and I didnt use it. Ill run it maybe 1-4 times a day out of 7 level 80s

Negrul.5423:

False. Try playing an Engineer and using that website, you’ll wait for hours to get a group.

I joined two different groups last night and I was the only warrior… had an engi, necro and ranger in one of them (last person was a guard)! That group also went on to do 2 more runs with each other as it was smooth and relatively quick.

Whilst the website might be plagued with lf zerker warrior/mesmer, joining groups in map chat has mostly landed me in diverse, non zerker war stacked groups. At least on my server there are lfms going every few minutes. Or better yet, start your own!

Negrul.5423:

False. Try playing an Engineer and using that website, you’ll wait for hours to get a group.

This doesn’t compute. I run CoF 1 & 2 all the time with my Engineer. Both “Regular” runs and P1 farming groups. I never have to wait more then a few minutes to get a party. Sure there’s a lot of “zerk warrior / mesmer only, ping gear!” posts to sort through but still… I usually only have to refresh the page a couple of times to find something.

Did a P1 run last night with me (Eng) plus two rangers and two thief. We had a blast.

Yes, there are plenty of regular CoF groups. I do them all the time because I have an 80 of each profession. There does seem to be some classes better suited for both paths 1 and 2 though.

With Warriors, Mesmers, Guardians, and Elementalists, the runs are done faster.

jameskelly.6310:

Negrul.5423:

False. Try playing an Engineer and using that website, you’ll wait for hours to get a group.

This doesn’t compute.

Doesn’t it?
I spent 40 minutes today trying to find a group for my Engineer, then I had to switch to another, more “wanted” class.

Negrul.5423:

jameskelly.6310:

Negrul.5423:

False. Try playing an Engineer and using that website, you’ll wait for hours to get a group.

This doesn’t compute.

Doesn’t it?
I spent 40 minutes today trying to find a group for my Engineer, then I had to switch to another, more “wanted” class.

Trust me it is not just engis, I have spent that length of time with my zerk warrior trying to get groups before but that is due to people never taking down their lfg posts, which bugs the hell out of me. If you are advertising that you are an engi then I would assume nobody would ever add you to their group. No offense of course, i like engis but I am in the minority

The death swarms in TA and the laser grid in CoE are harder mechanics than the rolling boulders.

Avenge.1478:

Rachel.1249:

What’s the use of having other classes!

Because this game is not Citadel of Flame Wars, its Guild Wars.

CoF p1 farmers, contrary to popular belief, are not the majority of players in this game.

But after the revamp of AC, the number of dungeon paths that are farmable has dwindled. Unfortunately, revamping CoF1 to make it “more interesting” is not going to prevent people from finding a new “best farm,” nor will it make people more accepting of all classes — regardless of the dungeon path. Dungeon design could do that but only in combination with class designs that provide more ways for under-valued classes to be useful.

Best way to get molten lodestones? CoF p1. Buy extra on TP.
Best way to get charged lodestones? CoF p1, buy on TP.
Best way to get corrupted lodestones? CoF p1, buy on TP.
Best way to get crystal lodestones? CoF p1, buy on TP.
Best way to get glacial lodestones? CoF p1, buy on TP.
Best way to get destroyer lodestones? CoF p1, buy on TP.
Best way to get onyx lodestones? CoF p1, buy on TP.
Best way to get ecto? CoF p1, buy on TP. Or salvage.
Best way to get any armor stat? CoF p1, buy on TP.
Best way to get any weapon stat? CoF p1, buy on TP.
Best way to get commander for WvW? CoF p1, buy on TP.
Best way to get holiday weapons (that aren’t account bound to RNG)? CoF p1, buy on TP.
Best way to get mini pets? CoF p1, buy on TP.
Best way to get a precursor, or any other part of the legendary? CoF p1, buy on TP.

Ah yes, Skaalds will sing of your legendary CoF p1 grinding forever! I’m sure I missed plenty, but you get the point.

This is downright silly, and way overdue for a nerf. It’s a bad situation when 99% of your game comes down to “gee, I could be mindlessly farming this easy path and making 10-20x as much as I am right now!”

Please fix. If you’re going to have something in the game that’s so much more profitable than others, at least make it difficult (like high level fractals). 4 War + mes is a problem as well, but not as much of a problem as this path. As others have pointed out, it’s entirely possible to get somewhat close to the efficiency with any good group, and still make far, far more than you do anywhere else.

PS: personally against removing the boulder trap, it’s the only thing in the dungeon that requires any coordination. +1 to the idea of stopping the flaming boulders from going through port if possible.

Negrul.5423:

jameskelly.6310:

Negrul.5423:

False. Try playing an Engineer and using that website, you’ll wait for hours to get a group.

This doesn’t compute.

Doesn’t it?
I spent 40 minutes today trying to find a group for my Engineer, then I had to switch to another, more “wanted” class.

Dude I’m sorry, I can’t explain why you have trouble finding a group with your Eng and I don’t. I play NA server, usually between 19:00 and 21:00 on weekdays and at random times on the weekend. I just pull up lfg.com and send a /join to any poster who is LFM and doesn’t say must be X class and have Y gear. There’s half a dozen posts up there right now less than 4 minutes old that fit that criteria. Never had an issue.

Rachel.1249:

Dear Areanet,
I personally feel that this dungeon need some revamp,coz majority of the pple are just looking for mesmer and warr in gw2lfg.com for a speed run! Other classes need some love too!If this goes on, everyone will eventually roll only mesmer and warior!What’s the use of having other classes!

I run P1 and P2 6 times a day on alts, I have no troubles whatsoever finding a group with my Ranger, or Thief during the times I play on NA.

I also create postings, which have a ton of variety of classes join. For me, I don’t care what class you are as long as you know what you’re doing.

As far as the comment of you wanting adjustments –
There will be incoming adjustments to the dungeon, so if you think finding groups now is hard? you won’t be able to find groups at all after the changes, if AC was any indication.

Maybe a small change is needed in COF. Other than that COF might be like AC.
Then all dungeons will become abandon. There’s one part in COF P3 where many silver monsters spawn is quite hard also for low DPS group.

Dungeon reward (exp and coins) needs to depend on the time you spend inside the dungeon, up to a max amount.

4 wars and mesmer group should clear COF P1 in about 7+ mins. A pt of ranger, thief, engineer, guardian and warrior should be able to clear it in 8-9 mins, every prefession should be spec for DPS in party. If you have trouble finding a COF pt try making some friends.

HP of monsters in dungeons should be lower at least 25% except COF, the HP reduction makes the lower level dungeons easier and faster, instead of spending 20+ mins running one dungeon path party might spend 15 mins instead.

Add maybe a Path 4 in each dungeon except Arah with high HP monsters and random bosses with their unique abilities/skills and they must be kill differently each time.

Robert Hrouda.1327:

Sure revamping some bosses would be neat.

…but whats this about removing the boulders trap?

I don’t have a problem with the boulder trap, but I do have a problem with portal. I don’t think content should be designed in a way which dramatically favours class specific mechanics. Either cause boulders to not go through a portal (that alone would damage the run times of optimal speed farm groups) or give portal mechanics to every class.

To a certain extent I agreed with the changes to Spy Kits and Teleportation Gun but I think there is a lesson there for ArenaNet and their existence actually solved problems which their removal creates. These two items were incredibly powerful and were very popular to use in dungeons because they mimic powerful mechanics most classes have no access to. Removing them reinforces a class tier system where certain classes are better than others because of specific mechanics they have exclusive access to. These items were good for the health of the game because they prevented people from needing mesmer or thieves for certain content where a portal removed all the challenge and saved time on failed attempts or just doing it properly (admittedly Portal and Teleport Gun are far from direct copies of each other) or instances such as the dredge fractal or even the gate event in CoF p1 where a spy kit or stealth can trivialise the content.

I love being rewarded for having unique class mechanics but the price paid by every class that doesn’t have them is too steep to justify their existence in my opinion.

While we are on the topic of the stones, please make deaths from dungeon encounters which don’t in any way favour armour (the underwater fracal and the dolphin part, the boulder hallway in CoF p1, the bees and the water spouts in F/U of TA) no longer cause damage to armour. The honest reality of the situation is that players are simply taking off their armour to avoid the armour repair fee if they do die. The armour does nothing to help so the only price they pay to do this is the inconvenience of spending time to unequipped and then equip their armour once the content is over. If armour doesn’t help me for it, it shouldn’t be damaged. All that does is encourage me to take my armour off temporarily. I believe armour damage from these types of encounters detracts from the game.

PS: If you are revamping bosses (and I know you are a ranger so you should be familiar with this) CoF path 1 is one of the few pieces of dungeon content where melee pets are viable. The first boss fight can be a bit rough and pets do require some attention during the final boss fight but for the most part I can bring any pet I want for this dungeon path (my dream situation for the future of the ranger) without being frustrated by instadowned mechanics. I am particularly concerned about this issue right now because your AC revamp turned encounters which previously didn’t have this problem (Spider Queen, Ghost Eater, the other two final bosses had the problem, but it does seem worse now) into ones which now do. I understand the intention behind OHKO attacks or very high DPS and long lasting AoE circles, but the kind of gameplay and challenge that fosters (dodging and very careful management of your position) is one of the biggest flaws in the pet mechanic (managing their position is hard, melee is usually not viable and dodge is simply not possible). Adding this kind of mechanic to CoF p1 could just be another hit to pets in dungeons.

i love how in the other thread people are complaining about how they cant grind for some skins lol

Don’t change the mesmer boulder part. Profession uniqueness is one of the things that makes this game fun. World of Warcraft dropped the ball hard on that one after a few expansions and in my eyes suffered a lot because of it.

Negrul.5423:

jameskelly.6310:

Negrul.5423:

False. Try playing an Engineer and using that website, you’ll wait for hours to get a group.

This doesn’t compute.

Doesn’t it?
I spent 40 minutes today trying to find a group for my Engineer, then I had to switch to another, more “wanted” class.

So you joined a bunch of groups who instantly kicked you? Unless you were joining SC teams I find that extremely hard to believe. I ran CoF on my level 77 thief a few days ago and no one minded at all.

Not sure I understand how someone can go from “it takes hours to find a group” with a specific class, to thinking " joined a bunch of groups who instantly kicked you"…

I always specify what class I will bring to the group, so my guess is that there’s not enough people interested in having that class in their dungeon.

OP is angry and jealous because he/she wants to farm CoF p1 but doesn’t want to reroll a war or mesmer.

If you nerf all areas where a portal is useful, then it won’t be very useful anymore…

Gab Superstar.4059:

Don’t change the mesmer boulder part. Profession uniqueness is one of the things that makes this game fun. World of Warcraft dropped the ball hard on that one after a few expansions and in my eyes suffered a lot because of it.

QFT