Rude Raid Incident
Unfortunately, this kind of inexcusable behavior is commonplace in high level raid pugs, and can even rear its head among good friends.
As much as the players involved are to blame, however, some of the onus for this belongs to Anet. Their ridiculous raid model more or less forces players simply looking for the experience to either forget raids exist or have to play alongside min maxers and those who take the challenge much more serious. It would be like making everyone wanting to do fractals have to do t4s.
There really needs to be another way to experience the fun and interesting encounters in the raids.
Anet is not at fault here. No company is at fault if some degenerate on a group decides to be toxic tbh but you cant find them all or keep them out of the game or im sure anet would have done it long ago. As for you op i dont know what to say man this its the lowest iv seen someone act and apologise on their behalf. What can i say man hope to see you in game in the future and have soe fun doing raids or w/e
Unfortunately, this kind of inexcusable behavior is commonplace in high level raid pugs, and can even rear its head among good friends.
Not true at all. Go to Dragon’s Stand (I did that constantly over the last 3 weeks) and if one tower is not in line with the others, you’ll have that 2-3 rage kiddies among around 60 players playing quietly, trying to help and coordinate the success.
Same with Silverwastes, Fractals, Dungeons (even those days) and not to mention: PvP.
@OP:
You experienced a very rare situation in GW2. Such things happen in every video game. If you are really not abusive you don’t have to worry anything. Just block such individuals and go on. No need to pause the game because you met some bad apples. There are enough friendly peeps out there.
Took me 3 runs of the dungeon to get the bug.
i mean at least the one guy apologised and said he felt like shot i suppose thats something but still feelsbadman ;-;
On a diff note why did you cover her name tho id love to give her some old spice ^3^ (joking ofc)
(edited by zealex.9410)
Zealex, this is not your group afaik, you were not the commander and as far as I can tell aren’t a friend of this Missy person. Don’t apologise for them being toxic [cant have a c before little] little kittens causing drama and trying to get their fun from such behaviour.
@OP, haters gonna hate so just ignore the ignorant people like the guy/girl who has clearly got the name wrong but won’t entertain the possibility of being wrong or give you one run to see how it goes.
Worst part is the guy claiming to say actions have consequences and that he told you before he’d remember you was the same little kittenhead who admitted he didn’t have a clue who you were. I hope these guys get a 24hr ban for harrassment.
Also you can make out their names under the red ink, I won’t say who they are but rest assured they’re now on my block list.
(edited by apharma.3741)
Could your history with lying to groups be the reason? https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Confession/first#post6545599
“You got me feeling an kitten” sounds like lyrics to one of those edgy J-Rock songs that tries to be cool by including broken English.
I am agree with Coconut here.
Some of your post reminds me an old player who, after made a ton of threads to troll raids and fractals, about how to LI lie, and such a things came here to cry for been kicked for people who even know him/her.
Think some people here knows who I am talking about.
In short, anything you say, for good or for bad, will be in people’s mind and will remember when you play with them.
Unfortunately, this kind of inexcusable behavior is commonplace in high level raid pugs, and can even rear its head among good friends.
As much as the players involved are to blame, however, some of the onus for this belongs to Anet. Their ridiculous raid model more or less forces players simply looking for the experience to either forget raids exist or have to play alongside min maxers and those who take the challenge much more serious. It would be like making everyone wanting to do fractals have to do t4s.
There really needs to be another way to experience the fun and interesting encounters in the raids.
I know your stance on raids Blaeys. I don’t agree with it but everyone can have their own opinion and i respect that.
But don’t use this situation as a reason to attack raids and create the idea that this is sth constant in raids and doesn’t exist anywhere else in the game. Or that raids corrupted these otherwise good people.
OP sadly enough met some idiots along the way. This simply happens, just gotta block these people and move on. I raid a lot, more than a full clear a week and often pug bosses. This is not representative of the raiding community. I’ve honestly had way more bad experiences in t4 fractals than in raids. Idiots anywhere else, will still be idiots in raids. Nice people will remain nice people in raids.
Anet’s raids dont force people to be rude, those people simply choose to be so.
Noone forces players to play with unbelievable hardcore minmaxers. If there are so many people out there looking for a nice casual raid, these people should try forming a squad then.
Unfortunately, this kind of inexcusable behavior is commonplace in high level raid pugs, and can even rear its head among good friends.
As much as the players involved are to blame, however, some of the onus for this belongs to Anet. Their ridiculous raid model more or less forces players simply looking for the experience to either forget raids exist or have to play alongside min maxers and those who take the challenge much more serious. It would be like making everyone wanting to do fractals have to do t4s.
There really needs to be another way to experience the fun and interesting encounters in the raids.
If we were to blame every game mode based on the amount of toxic individuals come around we’d have to close every single MMO on the market.
You dislike raids, fine. You’ve made this abundantely clear in every single raid thread you’ve posted in (while usually either exagerating, leaving out details or straight up giving false facts). Now stop trying to make everything fit your agenda and blame raids for any jerk move some sad individual ingame does.
You’re not even accurate in your observation at that. There are tons of practice groups and low skill-take every one along groups in the current meta especially in the evening. Raid guilds constantly are advertising for new members too. So no, unless you expect to get taken along by experienced players and get free loot from raid bosses, there are multitudes of options for new raiders to pursue.
Unfortunately, this kind of inexcusable behavior is commonplace in high level raid pugs, and can even rear its head among good friends.
Not true at all. Go to Dragon’s Stand (I did that constantly over the last 3 weeks) and if one tower is not in line with the others, you’ll have that 2-3 rage kiddies among around 60 players playing quietly, trying to help and coordinate the success.
Same with Silverwastes, Fractals, Dungeons (even those days) and not to mention: PvP.@OP:
You experienced a very rare situation in GW2. Such things happen in every video game. If you are really not abusive you don’t have to worry anything. Just block such individuals and go on. No need to pause the game because you met some bad apples. There are enough friendly peeps out there.
dragons stand is a whole new level of toxicity ive never seen in raids. one time a commander was needed for north. had never commanded it before just followed the leader previously. so i took over. told people to focus on targets and keep moving you know the usual for the final boss. i had like 12 people all chewing me out and putting me down for it. ended up leaving and they ended up not taking over and failing horribly.
im bad at sarcasm
I ran a raid with the individual earlier. Would not do that again.
Lets just say competency isnt their strong suit (not the OP but the person who asked for a kick).
Anet’s raids dont force people to be rude, those people simply choose to be so.
Noone forces players to play with unbelievable hardcore minmaxers. If there are so many people out there looking for a nice casual raid, these people should try forming a squad then.
I dont believe Anet’s raids force people to be rude either. I simply think that the current model doesn’t give people looking for a lower key experience a real option – which means they end up in raids alongside those who play for very different reasons. That creates tension and directly leads to situations like the one the OP describes here. It isn’t either group’s fault (unless of course, people are just being jerks) – it is simply that you end up with people in the same raid with very different goals and playstyles.
And, to clarify, I haven’t posted that I dislike raids or that I don’t believe they belong in the game. I raid every week. I just think they could be a much deeper and more inclusive experience than what we have now (and still offer the hardcore option people want).
I dont believe Anet’s raids force people to be rude either. I simply think that the current model doesn’t give people looking for a lower key experience a real option – which means they end up in raids alongside those who play for very different reasons.
Sure you did, scroll up:
Unfortunately, this kind of inexcusable behavior is commonplace in high level raid pugs, and can even rear its head among good friends.
That creates tension and directly leads to situations like the one the OP describes here. It isn’t either group’s fault (unless of course, people are just being jerks) – it is simply that you end up with people in the same raid with very different goals and playstyles.
What OP described was a freak troll incident. How this in anyway is raid specific is beyond me. This could have happen in any instanced group content.
If you end up with people with different goals and playstyles that is on you, as mentioned there is a multitude of raid groups running every day:
- you have the inexperienced or new to raids
- you have hardcore raid guilds who require superb performance and specialisation
- you have the casual guilds who go in 1nce a week and have fun while doing so
- you have full pug groups with varying degree of experience required
If you end up joining a hardcore-we have everything cleared-run though all 4 raids in 2 hours group with 0 experience, yes you will have a bad time (IF they actually take you along since those groups will usually make sure you are on their level).
I’ve played and am playing in multiple raid groups and both work fine. The raid guild we clear everything weekly and it’s fine. The casual guild we run 1nce per week and have fun while chatting and sometimes failing 10 times on a boss we usually kill 1st try, and that is fine too.
Then again, I’ve always made sure I know what group I am joining or running with. If there is something unique to GW2 raiding (at this time at least) it’s the fact that even with capped rewards weekly, many people who are reward capped go out and help others simply because they find raids fun.
And, to clarify, I haven’t posted that I dislike raids or that I don’t believe they belong in the game.
Go through your own posting history, read every single post you’ve made. You might not have posted it, but you have been very clear on how you feel. Sometimes what we say and do tells more about how we feel about something than what we think we said.
(edited by Cyninja.2954)
Go through your own posting history, read every single post you’ve made. You might not have posted it, but you have been very clear on how you feel. Sometimes what we say and do tells more about how we feel about something than what we think we said.
Or, better yet, read the rest of the paragraph you chose to cut out when quoting me.
If that isn’t good enough, let me state clearly that I do not hate raids. I do not believe that they should be removed from the game or that development on them should stop.
The idea behind raids is a noble one – to add challenging content to the game. I agree that is desperately needed in GW2.
I believe, however, that the way they chose to implement raids is uninspired and lazy development. In trying to meet an unfulfilled need, they created issues they didn’t need to create.
And to the topic of this thread, if you do not believe that occurrences like this one do not happen pretty much every day, then you either do not play the game much or, more likely, you keep to a self contained group of friends (nothing wrong with that, but not everyone has that option).
Just last night, I heard of another raid training guild – one that I had a lot of respect for, btw, basically falling apart because of this kind of behavior. Specifically, a few leading members decided it would be productive to start publicly discussing and shaming those people who joined and were doing sub par damage per second. What was a great training guild is now a 10 player raid progression guild as a result – and likely wont exist a year from now.
More casual raiders need a way to experience the raids. When that experience doesn’t exist, you will continue to see groups made of people with very different agendas and philosophies toward the game mode – and that is often where situations like the OPs come into play.
And, yes, this is different than open world (the Dragon Stand example), where players can put the ignorant blowhards on ignore without hurting their chances for success (probably ups their chances, imo).
And to repeat (because people want to ignore it), I think the inclusion of difficult content is a very good thing for the game. I just think the way they chose to implement raids wasn’t well thought out and could be improved upon significantly.
(edited by Blaeys.3102)
And to the topic of this thread, if you do not believe that occurrences like this one do not happen pretty much every day, then you either do not play the game much or, more likely, you keep to a self contained group of friends (nothing wrong with that, but not everyone has that option).
Incidents like the one discussed here (though I have my reservations, given the OP’s history) have always happened in this game. A long time ago, the dungeon meta wasn’t less toxic, not the tiniest bit. That’s an apparently inherent property of the GW2 community, so stop blaming raids. That’s just ridiculous.
Warning! This post may contain traces of irony, sarcasm and peanuts.
There is no loyalty without betrayal. -Ann Smiley
There is no loyalty without betrayal. -Ann Smiley
i should take a break from the forums it actually makes me feel like kitten from time to time
And to the topic of this thread, if you do not believe that occurrences like this one do not happen pretty much every day, then you either do not play the game much or, more likely, you keep to a self contained group of friends (nothing wrong with that, but not everyone has that option).
Incidents like the one discussed here (though I have my reservations, given the OP’s history) have always happened in this game. A long time ago, the dungeon meta wasn’t less toxic, not the tiniest bit. That’s an apparently inherent property of the GW2 community, so stop blaming raids. That’s just ridiculous.
Edit:
Seems that someone did have a change of heart and realised that toxic behavior like the one TC described are not unique nor caused by raids and his wording was off. All it took was just about everybody agreeing on this subject and repeating the same thing 4-5 times.
(edited by Cyninja.2954)
Ah man, i remember the dungeonrunning toxicity. People who are not a fan of the Anet raid system and critique the so-called elitism of the raiding community forget that community that did speedruns on dungeons was sooo much more toxic. Using the completely arbitrary AP-system as a barrier for joining groups, always gearchecking, 2 classes were only allowed in (sometimes thief aswell).
Toxicity will always be a part of every online game. I don’t agree at all with the statement that raids are more toxic than fractals or dungeons.
Why do some posters have to resort to personal attacks and direct insults rather than attempt civil discussion.
This is a common tactic designed to browbeat and belittle people and, more than anything, results in one sided discussions as people begin avoiding the forums altogether for fear of attacks (and if a developer is reading – please note that just means people tire of being insulted – not that issues worth discussion don’t persist).
And of course there is toxicity in every part of the game. I never said there wasn’t. That doesn’t mean you just accept it or that you don’t try and combat and look for solutions where you can. I simply cited what I believe to be a core cause for it in this case – and attempted to talk about what I consider to be a valid way to deal with it. You can disagree with that (in fact, I welcome it) – but please leave the insults and personal attacks out of it.
and note that, for the most part, people do attempt to have a legitimate discussion. I think comments like Baseleader’s or CptAurelian’s above, for instance, are a good example of this – and I thank them for keeping it civil even when we obviously strongly disagree. Unfortunately, it only takes one irrational person to turn it into mudslinging rather than discourse.
(edited by Blaeys.3102)
Your previous post placed a lot of onus on raids being a major issue with ‘toxicity’ in the game. In fact I would say it was fairly inflammatory and CptAurelian is right on the mark.
Suicidal Warrior.
Putting Perspective on Zerg Sizes since 2012. Common Suffixes for 40+ include ~Zilla and ~Train
“Seriously, just dodge.”
Putting Perspective on Zerg Sizes since 2012. Common Suffixes for 40+ include ~Zilla and ~Train
“Seriously, just dodge.”
Your previous post placed a lot of onus on raids being a major issue with ‘toxicity’ in the game. In fact I would say it was fairly inflammatory and CptAurelian is right on the mark.
I apologize if it came across as inflammatory or insulting to anyone in any way. It definitely wasn’t my intent.
Again, I think raids have a very real place in the game. At the same time, I think giving those less dedicated a way to experience raids separate from the more hardcore players (in much the same way different fractal levels do this in that game mode) would reduce (definitely not eliminate) the tensions that cause the situation outlined by the OP of this thread.
In essence, a big part of the problem is that different players want different experiences out of raids (as with any part of the game). And while toxicity exists everywhere in the game, I think there is a way they can reduce it (again, not eliminate it) here – by providing a wider range of options and experiences inside the raid model.
Again, I apologize if the way I communicated that earlier in the thread came across as insulting or inflammatory to anyone. It wasnt the intent.
(edited by Blaeys.3102)
Ah man, i remember the dungeonrunning toxicity. People who are not a fan of the Anet raid system and critique the so-called elitism of the raiding community forget that community that did speedruns on dungeons was sooo much more toxic. Using the completely arbitrary AP-system as a barrier for joining groups, always gearchecking, 2 classes were only allowed in (sometimes thief aswell).
Toxicity will always be a part of every online game. I don’t agree at all with the statement that raids are more toxic than fractals or dungeons.
Yea but people had options there were plenty all welcome groups that completed the dungeons just fine in 30mins-1hour.
All welcome in raid yea sure if you like to bang your head against the wall and never get anywere
Ah man, i remember the dungeonrunning toxicity. People who are not a fan of the Anet raid system and critique the so-called elitism of the raiding community forget that community that did speedruns on dungeons was sooo much more toxic. Using the completely arbitrary AP-system as a barrier for joining groups, always gearchecking, 2 classes were only allowed in (sometimes thief aswell).
Toxicity will always be a part of every online game. I don’t agree at all with the statement that raids are more toxic than fractals or dungeons.
Yea but people had options there were plenty all welcome groups that completed the dungeons just fine in 30mins-1hour.
All welcome in raid yea sure if you like to bang your head against the wall and never get anywere
Same thing for raids, in the evenings the lfg is full of different groups looking for people and there is sufficient groups looking for new or inexperienced players (on EU that is).
I still don’t see how this is unique or different to how fractals, dungeons or any other instanced content was handled by some people in this game.
I don’t quite recall the all welcome dungeon groups though. All I recall was lfg being full of:
- CoF zerk, exp 80, 5k ap
- Arah war, zerk, exp, 10k ap
- CM 80
The " welcome" dungeon groups basically did not place and modifiers on their lfg searches. Same as raids now leave away LI requirements or actually put in the word tries or practice.
Then again, maybe we are just having some https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosy_retrospection .
Ah man, i remember the dungeonrunning toxicity. People who are not a fan of the Anet raid system and critique the so-called elitism of the raiding community forget that community that did speedruns on dungeons was sooo much more toxic. Using the completely arbitrary AP-system as a barrier for joining groups, always gearchecking, 2 classes were only allowed in (sometimes thief aswell).
Toxicity will always be a part of every online game. I don’t agree at all with the statement that raids are more toxic than fractals or dungeons.
Yea but people had options there were plenty all welcome groups that completed the dungeons just fine in 30mins-1hour.
All welcome in raid yea sure if you like to bang your head against the wall and never get anywere
Same thing for raids, in the evenings the lfg is full of different groups looking for people and there is sufficient groups looking for new or inexperienced players (on EU that is).
I still don’t see how this is unique or different to how fractals, dungeons or any other instanced content was handled by some people in this game.
I don’t quite recall the all welcome dungeon groups though. All I recall was lfg being full of:
- CoF zerk, exp 80, 5k ap
- Arah war, zerk, exp, 10k ap
- CM 80The " welcome" dungeon groups basically did not place and modifiers on their lfg searches. Same as raids now leave away LI requirements or actually put in the word tries or practice.
Then again, maybe we are just having some https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosy_retrospection .
the reason you dident see them is they filled quickly since anyone could join, Well I will come with a longbow bear berserker ranger then and will just have to join a training raid and go right?
the reason you dident see them is they filled quickly since anyone could join, Well I will come with a longbow bear berserker ranger then and will just have to join a training raid and go right?
If people can trio raid bosses or do any other kind of hilarious things, there’s little reason to believe bearbows wouldn’t be able to complete raids.
Warning! This post may contain traces of irony, sarcasm and peanuts.
There is no loyalty without betrayal. -Ann Smiley
There is no loyalty without betrayal. -Ann Smiley
the reason you dident see them is they filled quickly since anyone could join, Well I will come with a longbow bear berserker ranger then and will just have to join a training raid and go right?
Are you saying you want builds to be completely irrelevant?
Ah man, i remember the dungeonrunning toxicity. People who are not a fan of the Anet raid system and critique the so-called elitism of the raiding community forget that community that did speedruns on dungeons was sooo much more toxic. Using the completely arbitrary AP-system as a barrier for joining groups, always gearchecking, 2 classes were only allowed in (sometimes thief aswell).
Toxicity will always be a part of every online game. I don’t agree at all with the statement that raids are more toxic than fractals or dungeons.
Yea but people had options there were plenty all welcome groups that completed the dungeons just fine in 30mins-1hour.
All welcome in raid yea sure if you like to bang your head against the wall and never get anywere
Same thing for raids, in the evenings the lfg is full of different groups looking for people and there is sufficient groups looking for new or inexperienced players (on EU that is).
I still don’t see how this is unique or different to how fractals, dungeons or any other instanced content was handled by some people in this game.
I don’t quite recall the all welcome dungeon groups though. All I recall was lfg being full of:
- CoF zerk, exp 80, 5k ap
- Arah war, zerk, exp, 10k ap
- CM 80The " welcome" dungeon groups basically did not place and modifiers on their lfg searches. Same as raids now leave away LI requirements or actually put in the word tries or practice.
Then again, maybe we are just having some https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosy_retrospection .
the reason you dident see them is they filled quickly since anyone could join, Well I will come with a longbow bear berserker ranger then and will just have to join a training raid and go right?
Same applies to raids. Please don’t make me go looking for 2-3 year old threads about toxicity in dungeons, try to recall how it actually was and not how you think it was.
If you can provide useful damage and/or fill your role with your bear berserker ranger, sure go for it. Many groups will not care if you pull your weight.
I remember back in the day during the usual speed-clears of fast dungeon paths, you would get called out ‘creatively’ if you weren’t with the group rushing through AC or CoF, and if you ever thought about pulling Kholer, instant-kick.
Arah was even worse, lots of groups had pretty high AP requirements back in the day since there was no other measure at that time. Oh, and only around 3 professions were allowed to roll in those pug groups, good times.
Suicidal Warrior.
Putting Perspective on Zerg Sizes since 2012. Common Suffixes for 40+ include ~Zilla and ~Train
“Seriously, just dodge.”
Putting Perspective on Zerg Sizes since 2012. Common Suffixes for 40+ include ~Zilla and ~Train
“Seriously, just dodge.”
This started as a normal thread and turned into “Anet give us ez raid mode cause raids are hard and i struggle”.
This started as a normal thread and turned into “Anet give us ez raid mode cause raids are hard and i struggle”.
No it didn’t. I simply put forth a reason for the tension – the forced mixing of people with divergent playstyles. Of course this kind of situation will be commonplace in a system like that. It isnt about anyone struggling at all.
This started as a normal thread and turned into “Anet give us ez raid mode cause raids are hard and i struggle”.
No it didn’t. I simply put forth a reason for the tension – the forced mixing of people with divergent playstyles. Of course this kind of situation will be commonplace in a system like that. It isnt about anyone struggling at all.
Tension exists for any sort of group content, including when kids pick teams for dodge ball. Some people care about having fun, some care about winning, some don’t care much… and some people impose their preferences, some don’t … and some are nice about it and some aren’t.
It’s got little specific to do with raids.
Besides, the post was about one person’s miserable experience — if we don’t have much to say about that, then perhaps we should leave generic comments about the game mode to the other existing threads that already discuss that.
John Smith: “you should kill monsters, because killing monsters is awesome.”
Yeah, I had my first cappy encounter yesterday.
All I was asking was guild that is willing to train new member for raid in lions arc map chat.
They started telling me how I was not prepared and trolling and stuff.
4 people ganged against me and one of them was guild member who didn’t recognize me.
And then I saw him on guild chat about how horrible I was and that and asking other guild member to block me.
BTW his ap was 402 while mine is little over 4k.
I was suprised that guild leader allowed that type of drama.
So, I quit the guild.
Anyway, people don’t like to take their time to help makes raids harder than anything.
But again who has time these days, so I inderstand.
Feels bad the op hasnt talked once he prob quit already. Meh i hate it when ppl come here to tell what they wonna tell and then leave without any discussion.