Guild Wars 2

Rez-rushing was bad design. Pure and simple. Was it necessary for some bosses? Yup. Doesn’t mean it was good design. Removing rez-rushing isn’t going to wipe pugs off the game.

Dungeons, especially explorables, may have to be taken more seriously, yes. And they should be. Explorable Dungeons are the hardest group content available in the game. They should require more than just throwing corpses at the boss until it falls over.

interesting about the voip. playing on voip is rather impossible in a small house with a child late at night. In gw1 the changes got worse and worse and the dungeons harder and harder as time went by and people who were fully armed to the teeth suddenly couldn’t do uw without a very specific team build. FoTM is for you if you’re a diablo “eternal dungeon” fan. GW2 was never advertised as that, its a beautiful open world with brief forays into dungeons if you wanted the look of the gear or a certain set of stats. Now its a gear-fest. And worse, its becoming a gear/class fest. Aoe gets you through that part? np, we’re nerfing aoe. 3 of your guys are minimum level for the dungeon in blue armour as they have no cash? np, we’ll force you to wipe and restart each encounter. If you die with a pug group theres always a 10% chance you’ll get booted immediately. That just rose even higher. If you die twice because your group couldn’t reach you and they needed your dps and start dropping themselves? runs over matey. The zerging was overused but why not make it you could only have 1 person use a waypoint per minute while in combat? why make the whole kitten team suffer? That poor downed guys going to be stressed as that he’s going to get kicked and annoyed as hell if he gets no loot as he’s stuck dead. Fix the bugs first.

Talissa Chan.7208:

If you die twice because your group couldn’t reach you and they needed your dps and start dropping themselves? runs over matey. The zerging was overused but why not make it you could only have 1 person use a waypoint per minute while in combat? why make the whole kitten team suffer? That poor downed guys going to be stressed as that he’s going to get kicked and annoyed as hell if he gets no loot as he’s stuck dead. Fix the bugs first.

Yes, bad play is punished with death and wiped encounters. Like in every other video game and MMORPG on the planet. You don’t win unless you successfully navigate the boss. That includes avoiding AoEs, watching for charge-up tells, and being smart about dodges, heals, and defensive cooldowns.

Playing well is rewarded with a dead boss and a loot chest. Playing poorly is punished with a wipe. What part of this do you disagree with?

Indica.1380:

but the whole no cheap waypoint thing defeats the idea of earning tokens to get the gears.
at this point players might as well craft their own gears or buy them from trading post.

Well, exactly. Craft your own! The dungeon gear is NOT supposed to be the gear you aim for at the exotic level by default. They are skins. You only get them for their cosmetic value. Any that you can’t craft or buy from the Trading Post eg. Power/Toughness/Vitality can be bought with Karma. There is absolutely NO obligation to get your gear from dungeons. None whatsoever. The dungeon armor skins are to show off your accomplishments in the game (although they are minor, as dungeons before this point were a cakewalk due to the death zerging mechanic). It’s easily a lot quicker and more efficient to just make or buy your own than to trudge through dungeon content that you don’t like doing. Why do it? You don’t have to.

As for what you said about healers, support and potions, you couldn’t be more wrong. I’m sorry, but all it takes is a little organisation and you can steamroll every single dungeon in this game. Everyone can provide support in their own way and sustain themselves with healing and buffing elements spread throughout the team. As for potions, don’t get me started. The moment I see potions related to healing is the moment I quit.

I’m an engineer. It was difficult to get groups as it is and this change pretty much ensures that I won’t be getting any more. Thanks anet. The definition of fun is having half the group sit dead for 20 minutes while everyone else gets to do stuff.

personally, this new update makes me want to quit dungeons all together… FOTM was good yea… because the battles are easy and there is not hordes of mobs that spawn every ten seconds from some random breeder… unless they give like some SUPER karma reward or something like 1-2 gold per dungeon run… this is going to cause ALOT of players harm, because as it is, alot of people are already skeptical on who they dungeon with… this her, is going to hurt the new players mainly, because no one is going to want to dungeon with them for fear they will die and mess everything up… personally I think A-Net needs to let the ENTIRE community vote on this instead of listing to a few kitten people who complain that people are rushing…. so what if a person wants to res-rush…. let him… everyone should not be penalized because a few complain… let US choose how we want to play… dont force us to play your way, we bought the game, we paid for it with our hard earned cash, with the economy as bad as it is, when we could have spent the money on bills… Area Net, you need to THINK about this stuff before you go forcing this on everyone… thats all I have to say on this bullcrap

Can anyone say Return REBIRTH!?! Or teleport corpse or something USEFUL. Hell even the USELESS resurrection orb we spend real money to attain only reses you with 1HP! Thats a res and INSTANT Death in ANY situation that it would have been practical to use it for. Talk about a waste of money. I tend to agree Pugs are a waste of time for any type of dungeon. For that matter dungeons themselves are a complete and total waste as far as I am concerned. the rewards vs time having to be put into them / and the expense of doing them at all, is just not worth it to me for some superficial goodies that make you feel like your something your not for grinding garbage to get some ultra nothing item. It would be one thing if they were even enjoyable like the dungeons in GW EOTN were, but these just are not. they are nothing but an endless parade of wiping running back through ENDLESSLY respawning mobs, and repeat. At least in the original you could pull an idiot away from a danger spot to resurrect them if they went off leroying the world. But there is no safe spots really in a dungeon in GW2 as everything behind you is endlessly respawned and your basically back to square one after every wipe. Personally I’m done with them outside of an occasional Guildy request for a story mode run. As far as this nerf goes I feel many more will do the same. I encourage you to protest their actions by NOT spending any money on gems and NOT running any dungeons at all till they start actually FIXING things that are broken, and stop breaking things that were NOT. Remember this is NCSoft not ArenaNet that we all knew from the glory days of Guild Wars. NCSoft cares not for anyone, especially western cultures, EXCEPT FOR YOUR MONEY! So stop giving it to them. Only then is ArenaNet allowed to do as they know is right and start making content that is WORTH investing in again. AS in Expansions / Campaigns.

Oh and one more thing. how about the endlessly recourring bug that keeps you in combat mode when YOUR not attacking anything and your pet is standing right beside you in passive mode!~? Not taking any damage not moving nothing, and yet your stuck in combat mode.. Yea Brilliant move this little nerf… all it really does is wipe the whole team when 1 dies instead of just the 1 idiot that prob caused it in the first place by trying to RUN for it instead of fighting their way through as 1 group.

I’d love to know where those endlessly respawning mobs are, Ingram. Really, do tell.

Ingram seems to play a different game I have been playing……
The mobs we killed lay dead after they are dead.

I’m playing the game since the headstart. I was srsly hyped over the new features GW2 was going to introduce. I wasn’t dissapointed back then. I am now. Why? Because the recent changes are shifting this great game towards “as in other MMO’s”. Suddenly “play as you want” looses it’s significance. I run pugs quite a lot. To be honest 10-20x times more often than with guildies at the moment due to Fotm progressing (which suddenly ended today as well due to 1) bad mechanics design in one of the fractals 2) there’s no way to handle Maw anymore at my diff ). How many of us have blessed the existence of gw2lfg.com since it’s release? I didn’t had any issues with corpse rushing myself. If I can choose – I prefer not to die and I do so rarely.
/sigh
I just get the feeling that instead of rewarding the players for playing good, devs decided to punish those that play bad. That will give the new players impression that the best way to get by in this game is to either buy gold from a gold farmer or become one himself. I never thought of dungeons as an end-game content. I always considered there is none in this game – that the game itself is that so called end-game. I always considered dungeons to be fun. Every1 has to agree that story modes are/were waaaay harder than actual explos. Story modes were never entertaining to me however… and that’s not due to the close-to-none rewards in there.
It’s often already hard/time taking to find ppl from across the continet using lfg.com for certain dungeon paths. Now after some players get discouraged it will be even more difficult. Maybe not today/tommorow/this week – but in a month or two.
Let’s just hope I’m wrong.

Glovebox.5724:

First thing you should do when a team mate is down and boss isn’t facing you is at least try to revive then, in dungeons ever player counts. If you let them die, you will.

The problem is that often it was faster for the player to res rush, as the other player would have to stop, not move, and revive, while possibly getting pounded on.

However, that being said, there are several excellent revival skills that almost never get used, and maybe now they will be; every class except thief has one, though the Mesmer’s is garbage, and two are elite.

Guardian: Signet of Mercy (also improves healing when passive, nice for a healing guardian)

Ranger: Search and Rescue
Ranger: Nature’s Renewal (Elite; revives all in its range, as well as cure conditions!!!!)

Elementalist: Glyph of Renewal (and boy, all attunements except air seem excellent with this!!!)

Necromancer: Signet of Undeath (revive up to three allies, and generate life force while in passive? Yes please!)

Engineer: Toss Elixir R (from the Elixir R skill; cures conditions and heals reviving allies; not sure how good this is, would need to see it in action)

Warrior: Battle Standard (revive all in range 600, plus grant stability, Fury, Might, Swiftness, and is a blast combo finisher? Yes indeed!)

Mesmer: Illusion of Life (revives all allies in a small are of effect; allies must kill something within 15 seconds or else go back down again; as such, unless you are fighting against lots of creatures that die easily, then this is the worst of the rez skills)

The point being with all this is, you can build a team where almost everyone has a res skill, and then not worry about having to rez rush – or rather, not worry about no longer being able to

As a mesmer myself, I’m not happy with my particular rez skill, as if it’s a boss fight without any minions to kill, my rez is garbage….

Things like the thief’s shadow refuge (I wonder why its called a refuge? Lol no really that thing is awesome for reviving pwople in) will have more value. Warrior’s war banner revives 4 at once and ele’s signet which can revive 3 players at once as well. What other skills such as those do other classes have? Have some hope people.

Man I missed the great post right above me? Sorry. But as well warrior “endure pain” great for giving a quick revive while under attack and thief’s “smoke screen” great for reviving someone while under ranged attack.

Goodbye to pugs

Just doing what the OP wanted

nelopp.6140:

Seriously, besides Arah I don’t think any bosses need to be res-rushed.

I don’t know, Subject Alpha was a Grade A kitten. I am hoping that his recently downgraded health will make up for the difference.

helosie.4781:

Dungeons (Besides Arah) are difficult?

If you didn’t find CoE difficult, you would be the first I know to express this. Subject Alpha was a sheer kitten. Hopefully his health downgrade will make it more manageable.

Morfedel.4165:

helosie.4781:

Dungeons (Besides Arah) are difficult?

If you didn’t find CoE difficult, you would be the first I know to express this. Subject Alpha was a sheer kitten. Hopefully his health downgrade will make it more manageable.

There’s a whole thread on this. A lot of people DON’T find it difficult to dodge. In fact, once you realize how slow the circles are, you shouldn’t be hit by the circles if you aren’t imprisoned.

If you think Alpha is bad, I don’t know how you would do Lupi.

Slither Shade.4782:

Things like the thief’s shadow refuge (I wonder why its called a refuge? Lol no really that thing is awesome for reviving pwople in) will have more value. Warrior’s war banner revives 4 at once and ele’s signet which can revive 3 players at once as well. What other skills such as those do other classes have? Have some hope people.

Man I missed the great post right above me? Sorry. But as well warrior “endure pain” great for giving a quick revive while under attack and thief’s “smoke screen” great for reviving someone while under ranged attack.

Exactly. Several classes have revival skills that almost never get used. Now there’s a great reason to use them.

Sadly, not all of them are good. Like I said, the Mesmer’s Ilusion of Life is garbage unless fighting lots of weaker mobs. But many of them are really good, actually, and can make up for the loss of res rushing. Just need to craft the team and coordinate builds, as opposed to just take what you want beforehand.

Heck, the Mesmer does have a trait that gives him a feedback bubble while rezzing… that might be worthy against range-attack-centric bosses….

(side note: hm, does feedback stop AoE attacks? I’m thinking not, but I’ve never tested it….)

Getting rid of the pugs is pretty casual right ^^

I just finished Arah exp p3 with random pug. All of them had ~1300 anet points, none except me had dungeon master, some of them were first time there, didn’t know what to do with hot potato stage. We did all without wipes. I was kiting GL solo while they were rezzing themselfs like crazy. They did awesome job. We’ve skipped some parts after that and reached the final boss. It only takes one person willing to explain stuff and be kind to new and unexpirenced players. No spykits were used that day. We’ve finished this path in decent time as well. Everything was smooth except that I had dc during the final fight. Guess what. I had to run on foot from the start after loggin in back to the game. This is just ridiculous. Especially in Arah. I wasn’t killed I had DC I should be albe to at least use some WP and its not like WP’s at Arah are close to the final bosses…

bel.6510:

I just finished Arah exp p3 with random pug. All of them had ~1300 anet points, none except me had dungeon master, some of them were first time there, didn’t know what to do with hot potato stage. We did all without wipes. I was kiting GL solo while they were rezzing themselfs like crazy. They did awesome job. We’ve skipped some parts after that and reached the final boss. It only takes one person willing to explain stuff and be kind to new and unexpirenced players. No spykits were used that day. We’ve finished this path in decent time as well. Everything was smooth except that I had dc during the final fight. Guess what. I had to run on foot from the start after loggin in back to the game. This is just ridiculous. Especially in Arah. I wasn’t killed I had DC I should be albe to at least use some WP and its not like WP’s at Arah are close to the final bosses…

Yep, you can’t use WP even if you are alive which is imho an oversight or a way to stop people from logging out and in and to use waypoint to get back but that’s just stupid.

Morfedel.4165:

snip

Those skills only work on downed players, not defeated. And at least the ele skill takes much too long to cast. The downed player will be defeated before it goes off unless they’re already in a safe spot, so it’s basically useless. Needs to be much quicker to cast before it will really do anything in dungeons.

DancingPenguins.9875:

Morfedel.4165:

helosie.4781:

Dungeons (Besides Arah) are difficult?

If you didn’t find CoE difficult, you would be the first I know to express this. Subject Alpha was a sheer kitten. Hopefully his health downgrade will make it more manageable.

There’s a whole thread on this. A lot of people DON’T find it difficult to dodge. In fact, once you realize how slow the circles are, you shouldn’t be hit by the circles if you aren’t imprisoned.

If you think Alpha is bad, I don’t know how you would do Lupi.

I’ve only done Alpha twice or three times; can almost never get a group together, heh

However, I did read about how the AoEs are actually pretty particular in whether the damage comes from the first or second ring based on the graphics, for instance, and another suggestion that you just go in and melee him, keeping you out of most of his AoEs.

But the point being, in game I’ve NEVER heard anyone say that Alpha was easy; maybe after I’ve fought him a few more times, I’ll agree with you, but who knows.

And I haven’t done any explorable Arah; again, can’t get anyone to do them with me.

Tell you what, I’ll offer you this concession: I haven’t found any dungeon hard that I had a chance to run several times and learn the tactic. And the last time we did CoE, after I read the tactics on his AoEs and understood better how they worked, we did great the first two battles, and a bad mishap ended it on the third, causing us to have to refight him.

But the second round of that third fight also went well.

On the other hand… we did res rush a few times. It will be… interesting… to see how it goes with the changes.

But what I’m saying is, I DID find him much more manageable after I came to understand his AoEs and how they worked. So maybe I will find him easy with a few more runs.

Morfedel.4165:

However, that being said, there are several excellent revival skills that almost never get used, and maybe now they will be; every class except thief has one, though the Mesmer’s is garbage, and two are elite.

Most of those resurrect spells are broken though. I tried the signet of mercy with my guardian just the other day in a pug group, and it didn’t work. Actually, it did work, but it revived the dead NPC across the room rather than the downed player I was directly next to. This happened several times before I figured out what was happening. Last I checked the glyph wasn’t working properly for eles, but its been awhile since I’ve used it.

I’m actually ok with the new change to WP in combat, but it can’t work unless other parts of the game are fixed (resurrect spells and the stuck in combat bug). They should’ve rolled out al the changes at once rather than piecemeal, as its frustrating.

Morfedel.4165:

DancingPenguins.9875:

Morfedel.4165:

helosie.4781:

Dungeons (Besides Arah) are difficult?

If you didn’t find CoE difficult, you would be the first I know to express this. Subject Alpha was a sheer kitten. Hopefully his health downgrade will make it more manageable.

There’s a whole thread on this. A lot of people DON’T find it difficult to dodge. In fact, once you realize how slow the circles are, you shouldn’t be hit by the circles if you aren’t imprisoned.

If you think Alpha is bad, I don’t know how you would do Lupi.

But what I’m saying is, I DID find him much more manageable after I came to understand his AoEs and how they worked. So maybe I will find him easy with a few more runs.

Dodge everything you can’t reflect. Reflect everything you can’t dodge.

Also, don’t panic if you are over red circles. Walk out.

Learn to leash bosses. Most bosses have attacks that require line of sight and range. Use that to your advantage and make bosses move. If they are moving, they aren’t stomping your face. That include keeping their back towards you or people that can’t dodge.

Leo_G: Goodbye PuGs!

/em is in a PuG right now.

Rez skills are waste of your utility slot and a sign of weakness. I will never want someone in my party with this waste of a skill, get over with it. They could be useful only if resurrecting a defeated player was an option period.

There’s almost always better to rally or rez someone manually – and you can put some escape skill there instead. If youre downed while fighting one boss and can’t rally – your team should lure the boss away from the body.

Standing near player who can be simply rezzed using F key and using some atrocious long casting, long CD skill is just sad. It only makes you another victim there, you will jeopardise your group and become a liability.

Yes you can use Time Warp + rez skill but let’s be honest I don’t need rez skill to quickly rezz someone with TW. You can use TW and earth attuned Glyph of R. but how often all of those three people die in range of that skill? Even if so, if three of them died close like a bunch of scrubs trying to rez one another and luckly that wasn’t that one Ele with GoR there needs to be one other guy to kite somewhere else but he’s probably also gonna die soon being alone, and all that rezzing will not help at all it will only delay the inevitable wipe.

If you’re setting your build and utils for some really rare occasion in mind like some super lucky resurrection to save the day youre doing it wrong.

Goodbye pugs.I will really ’’miss’’ you.

Praetor Xin.9087:

I like how all the self-crowned elites seem to have amnesia about the fact that they sucked and died on their first few dungeon runs too.

Difference is that those “self-crowned elites” learned from mistakes and became better players. Look at all the whiners now. Only one and half day since the update and already they are crying about how dungeons are no longer fun, too hard, and how it will kill the game. Can you honestly say that in the past 24 hours, the whiners ran dungeons hundred times, tried to adapt to the change, and give this thing a shot? I don’t think so.

Yeah, I remember dying many times in dungeons when the game was new. That was 5 months ago.