Guild Wars 2

Hello My name is Tim I’m a casual player in Guild wars 2 I am by no means a pro of any sort.

I’ve been attempting to do the Arah dungeon for the past 2 days managed to get the boots for the set . One problem I’ve been experiencing is that people are “selling” Completed dungeon slots.

first off the people who are selling these dungeon paths are in my oppinion contradicting the entire point of a dungeon. The point of Dungeons and Dungeon armour is to demonstrate a players ability to adapt/work with parties.
Selling dungeon paths is essentially selling dungeon rewards/armour Arena-Net purposely made Dungeon armour not trade-able for a reason. Then why are they allowing people to sell dungeon slots. To be honest I’ve never liked the idea of paying another player to help you simply because you cant find anyone else to do it with.

Is it really the people selling? (who have run the dungeon a multitude of times)
Or the people buying that’s wrong?
I thought most people buy slots to get DM title though?

You should also know that there is a post on this at least once a week.

selling dungeons isnt wrong.

but exploiting trough a dungeon and then selling the path, is wrong.

once arenanet starts to think you will see less and less people selling arah because they wont get past lupicus.

Hi Tim, check this topic where many people have expressed their points of view.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Arah-P4-5/first

You can also see that it was closed by a mod, because it leads to an uninteresting debate.

Adam.4103:

Very original topic, 1/10 for effort.

I appreciate other people’s input but that is just rude I only recently discovered this particular practise.

NoTrigger.8396:

selling dungeons isnt wrong.

but exploiting trough a dungeon and then selling the path, is wrong.

once arenanet starts to think you will see less and less people selling arah because they wont get past lupicus.

I can very much understand the concept and why people would think selling dungeons is fair. But it keeps bugging me Why not just let people sell Dungeon armor on the trading post when they can sell dungeons slots It seems hypocritical (if thats a word)

Well we can’t sell dungeon armor since it become Soulbound on Acquire… And another thing why people may buy runs is because we need like 500 token on a specific dungeon to make a legendary (Arah is for Bifrost if i’m right)

Jeremlloyd.6837:

Well we can’t sell dungeon armor since it become Soulbound on Acquire… And another thing why people may buy runs is because we need like 500 token on a specific dungeon to make a legendary (Arah is for Bifrost if i’m right)

Well making it trade-able just means changing it from sb on aquire to something else but thats not my point. Im saying is it hypocritcal of Arena net to not let people sell Dungeon Armor when they can sell the dungeon for that armor.

Really, you think it’s wrong ? Then don’t buy, and just do it with other ppl and let sellers live in peace. Don’t say you can’t find a party cause of this. That’s what is wrong.

Ppl who complain all the time about dungeons selling are jealous cause they can’t solo them. You could ask Anet to fix exploits (like going underwater…), that would be fair. So only really skilled runners can do it, like it should be.

Tbh, I’m quite pleased that OP at least has a more original reasoning for why he dislikes the practice other than, “It’s not allowed because I say so! Because they’re not partying with ME!”

On the other hand, your opinion doesn’t matter, and selling runs for literally ANYTHING has 7 (or 8?) years of precedence to back up the supposed “legality” of it, so build a time machine and go complain about Drok’s runners in Prophecies.

Actually his reasoning has also been said…repeatedly.

Making it tradable is not the same as allowing the dungeon running service. If you really don’t see the difference between the layer of inconvenience, you need a reality check on how the world works.

I also still don’t see how this affects you individually other than the illusion of prestige on obtaining those armor pieces.

Being able to sell dungeon armor would be amazing. Then we don’t have to worry about casual tryhards killing our instances.

After reading everyone’s opinion and reasons I cant say that I support selling but there isn’t much of a chance of it being fixed due to how popular you seem to make it. So I got what I wanted out of this thread. Thanks for your oppinion

Erebus.9276:

Being able to sell dungeon armor would be amazing. Then we don’t have to worry about casual tryhards killing our instances.

I thought casual and try-hards opposites :I

Because it doesn’t need fixed. Besides a simple google search would show you just how often this exact topic brought up, at this point it’s just boring.

TimTWW.5867:

Erebus.9276:

Being able to sell dungeon armor would be amazing. Then we don’t have to worry about casual tryhards killing our instances.

I thought casual and try-hards opposites :I

If only. What GW2 community has, unlike any I have ever seen, is a bunch of “casuals” who are aggressively anti-hardcore. For some reason, inexplicably, there is a subset of casuals who are greatly angered by what hardcore players do with their time, regardless of whether it has any effect on them at all. What results from that are people who are so aggressively casual, they go out of their way to grief people selling paths, or down vote reddit threads for speed runs, or dislike youtube videos for “zerker builds”, or any number of things like that.

The fact that they go out of their way to aggressively grief/troll with people who aren’t bothering them at all simply because they disagree with their playstyle is what makes them “try-hards.” They have set themselves up as a fun police, and their definition of what is “fun” and what is “allowed” are aggressively enforced regardless of what Anet thinks of the matter.

You yourself are at an impasse. You are not happy with the concept of path selling, fair enough. What is your next step after this thread: will you just ignore it and go about enjoying the game, or will you join with the self-righteous crusaders and kill instances or file frivolous reports against path sellers? Hopefully you make a positive choice.

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

TimTWW.5867:

Erebus.9276:

Being able to sell dungeon armor would be amazing. Then we don’t have to worry about casual tryhards killing our instances.

I thought casual and try-hards opposites :I

If only. What GW2 community has, unlike any I have ever seen, is a bunch of “casuals” who are aggressively anti-hardcore. For some reason, inexplicably, there is a subset of casuals who are greatly angered by what hardcore players do with their time, regardless of whether it has any effect on them at all. What results from that are people who are so aggressively casual, they go out of their way to grief people selling paths, or down vote reddit threads for speed runs, or dislike youtube videos for “zerker builds”, or any number of things like that.

The fact that they go out of their way to aggressively grief/troll with people who aren’t bothering them at all simply because they disagree with their playstyle is what makes them “try-hards.” They have set themselves up as a fun police, and their definition of what is “fun” and what is “allowed” are aggressively enforced regardless of what Anet thinks of the matter.

You yourself are at an impasse. You are not happy with the concept of path selling, fair enough. What is your next step after this thread: will you just ignore it and go about enjoying the game, or will you join with the self-righteous crusaders and kill instances or file frivolous reports against path sellers? Hopefully you make a positive choice.

You’re very mature in the way you presented your information/opinion thanks for keeping it civil. I’m probably just going to go back to playing the game casually as I normally do. I’m only in the game for fun. No point of a game if it isn’t for fun right? I have no intention of helping some elitist group of anti-hard-core crazies. As I stated before I don’t condone the “selling” of dungeons but I will never support groups that trample on other peoples fun for the sake of their own twisted pleasure. That is just plain bullying and I’ve had enough of that for one life.

Erebus.9276:

Being able to sell dungeon armor would be amazing. Then we don’t have to worry about casual tryhards killing our instances.

I’d much rather be able to sell the tokens so that others can buy whatever they want with them. I’ve got thousands of Arah tokens I’ll never use and that someone else would put to much better use than I can.

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

The fact that they go out of their way to aggressively grief/troll with people who aren’t bothering them at all simply because they disagree with their playstyle is what makes them “try-hards.” They have set themselves up as a fun police, and their definition of what is “fun” and what is “allowed” are aggressively enforced regardless of what Anet thinks of the matter.

This behavior you describe has always shocked me. The fact that you have to have a 4-man group and then let in people you’re selling the path to one at a time (and asking for their gold as soon as they join) to prevent merge party instance killing is beyond ridiculous. I have never had these issues in any previous game, and while, admittedly, I’ve never had this issue thus far in GW2, the fact that I have to worry about it at all is saddening.

+1 Internet point for op for a set of mature and calm responses.

This thread has returned some hope I had lost. Kudos.

I wanted to come in here and read all of those sarcastic dungeon responses.

I am happy to see the mature back and forth, adult compromise, however sad at missing some of swiftpaw’s comments =( Only a matter of time before the next thread.

It’s always nice to see Nike’s response, where he tells me exactly how I’m feeling in much better words than I could ever express, and I simply rub my chin and nod in agreement.

Path selling starts proliferating after Sept, 2013 token gate introduced. Before that, path selling is a very rare circumstance, even for Arah p4. And I’ve ran Arah so much in the past to know the differences.
People is making lemonade out from the lemon Anet giving to them. And the try-hards are also the consequences of that lemon too. The more Anet band-aid Arah and other dungeons, the steeper the slope because running dungeons would be more & more between close tied group of players hence less & less information changing hands.
If they introduce ascended gears in dungeons, I would expect even more path selling.

People started selling services in GW1 back in 2005. This practice has been going on for over 8 years, as Young Somalia has pointed out already. Anet’s stance on the subject hasn’t changed over the years, and it most likely won’t.

I applaud OP for keeping his dignity and taking on conversation in a mature and civil way, but I can’t help but disagree with everything you say about it.

You should see path selling like a service in real life. For example, I know enough about bicycles to maintain my own bike, in case of flat tires/worn out break pads etc. I can do all the basic stuff. Now, if something more complicated needs to be fixed that requires experience, I go to a bicycle garage and get it fixed by a professional. It’s a gentleman’s agreement: I give him money, he uses his expertise to make sure my bike is fixed properly. I could go on and try to learn it myself, but it would most likely cost me time and the fix might not be equally well done without the experience.

Dungeon selling is very similar. Certain people in the game don’t want to waste their time doing something they’re not good at, or don’t have the time to do. Thus they pay people that do have the experience to do the runs for them. Money, in exchange for a service.

Now, imagine I would go out of my way and burn every single bicycle garage in town to the ground, because I personally feel that letting someone else fix your bike is cheating, and people should do it themselves. Wouldn’t that make me a crazy person with f’ed up morals and skewed ideals? It sure would.

If only. What GW2 community has, unlike any I have ever seen, is a bunch of “casuals” hardcores who are aggressively anti-hardcore casual. For some reason, inexplicably, there is a subset of casuals hardcore who are greatly angered by what harcore casual players do with their time, regardless of whether it has any effect on them at all. What results from that are people who are so aggressively casual Hardcore, they go out of their way to grief people selling buying paths, or down vote reddit threads for speed runs not skipping, or dislike youtube videos for “zerker builds” “conditional builds”, or any number of things like that.

The fact that they go out of their way to aggressively grief/troll with people who aren’t bothering them at all simply because they disagree with their playstyle is what makes them “try-hards.”"too-cool" They have set themselves up as a fun police, and their definition of what is “fun” and what is “allowed” are aggressively enforced regardless of what Anet thinks of the matter.

You yourself are at an impasse. You are not happy with the concept of path selling, fair enough. What is your next step after this thread: will you just ignore it and go about enjoying the game, or will you join with the self-righteous crusaders and kill instances or file frivolous reports against path sellers? Hopefully you make a positive choice.

Ah, the casual, hardcore debate see what I did there??

I buy dungeons paths everyday, I show up with a charismatic warrior in apprioate gear with a great attitude bought with my TIME, if thats not payment enough for a video game then I find a new group.

Cheers

Exceptionally clever. I can’t believe no one thought of that.

(Ps. And now my hope fades like the setting sun.)

Goldberg.4831:

I buy dungeons paths everyday, I show up with a charismatic warrior in apprioate gear with a great attitude bought with my TIME, if thats not payment enough for a video game then I find a new group.

Cool story, bro. You keep doing that, and people who want to pay for a service they’re receiving will keep buying paths from those people running them and selling them. You play your way, I play my way, and neither hurt the other. You stay out of my groups, and sure as the stars you can bet I’ll stay out of yours.

So yes, I see what you just did there. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_equivalence

The dungeon pve community of so-called elitists don’t going around reporting people for champ train farming. We don’t go out of our way to troll the champ trains, or whatever other casual content farm there is.

Goldberg.4831:

Ah, the casual, hardcore debate see what I did there??

Yes, unfortunately I do =(

I should just change my sig to “What Brazil said” cuz I mean…. what Brazil said.

We have casuals telling us that they can play how they want, report people for selling paths, stacking is an exploit, report people for soloing bosses, stop skipping mobs, etc.

Then you have the “elitists” that make guides and set speed run records.

One of these sounds “toxic”, while one does not.

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

So yes, I see what you just did there. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_equivalence

The dungeon pve community of so-called elitists don’t going around reporting people for champ train farming. We don’t go out of our way to troll the champ trains, or whatever other casual content farm there is.

So in all these forums, all of the complaints come from casuals?? I’m confused.

All I was trying to say is how is this a casual vs hardcore debate, either you agree with selling paths or you don’t.

And as a self-proclaimed hardcore, would you ever buy a path that was too hard? But its ok to sell them to the casuals, isnt that somewhat hypocritical.

Would I ever pay an accountant to do my taxes, hell no as I am an accountant. the same being true for this game I run dungeons for fun, (often solo, duo, or trio) does that mean I would pay for someone to run the dungeon for me, NO then I would lose the enjoyment I gain from whatever difficulty and challenge I would’ve gotten from doing it myself. But if someone plays the TP (something I also do) they may have the disposable income and like the armor from a particular dungeon, while not enjoying the challenge of dungeons, so they may find it worth their gold to buy said armor through someone else’s work in (soloing) the dungeon…so what is the problem here?

Goldberg.4831:

And as a self-proclaimed hardcore, would you ever buy a path that was too hard? But its ok to sell them to the casuals, isnt that somewhat hypocritical.

It’s not. Just like Bright’s analogy post above suggests, the expert in dealing with a bicycle will learn to deal with the new bicycle style. It’s a passion of theirs to understand the challenges before them and overcome them, and to master them. So the dungeon runner finds a new challenge that they fail at beating once, and keeps at it until they figure it out, and until they optimize that path so that they can beat it as efficiently as possible. Then others, such as those people who don’t care to learn the new path or who can’t get it because they’re simply not sufficiently skilled, can then purchase that expertise and run from the runners. That’s not hypocritical, that’s just a differing philosophy, and it’s all about people playing the game the way they want to, unhindered by other playstyles. You play your way, I play mine, and everyone is happy.

Goldberg.4831:

And as a self-proclaimed hardcore, would you ever buy a path that was too hard? But its ok to sell them to the casuals, isnt that somewhat hypocritical.

This seems silly. Just because I have a certain opinion doesn’t mean I think that everybody else should share this opinion.

I wonder why theres so much complaining about dungeon selling in GW2 when in GW1 it was widely accepted. What happened between the 2 games that turned the guild wars community into such whiners?

Goldberg.4831:

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

So yes, I see what you just did there. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_equivalence

The dungeon pve community of so-called elitists don’t going around reporting people for champ train farming. We don’t go out of our way to troll the champ trains, or whatever other casual content farm there is.

So in all these forums, all of the complaints come from casuals?? I’m confused.

The anti-selling crowd maliciously plans and inflicts harm on the dungeon sellers in game. There is no opposite equivalent in the other direction, dungeon crowd maliciously griefing the casual scene, which is what my example showed. Your post where you switched the words around created a false equivalence as if the two positions were equally malignant. That is not correct.

Turin.1024:

I wonder why theres so much complaining about dungeon selling in GW2 when in GW1 it was widely accepted. What happened between the 2 games that turned the guild wars community into such whiners?

Living Story.

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

Goldberg.4831:

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

So yes, I see what you just did there. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_equivalence

The dungeon pve community of so-called elitists don’t going around reporting people for champ train farming. We don’t go out of our way to troll the champ trains, or whatever other casual content farm there is.

So in all these forums, all of the complaints come from casuals?? I’m confused.

The anti-selling crowd maliciously plans and inflicts harm on the dungeon sellers in game. There is no opposite equivalent in the other direction, dungeon crowd maliciously griefing the casual scene, which is what my example showed. Your post where you switched the words around created a false equivalence as if the two positions were equally malignant. That is not correct.

Your being a tad dramatic, how does anyone maliciously affect your time in GW2, I was simply pointing out the argument could go the other way. (Ie isn’t the casual vs. hardcore argument getting old?) Are we not just gamming enthusiasts with different opinions?

They do maliciously effect our time when they join our party and kick us out of our own instance.

Goldberg.4831:

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

Goldberg.4831:

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

So yes, I see what you just did there. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_equivalence

The dungeon pve community of so-called elitists don’t going around reporting people for champ train farming. We don’t go out of our way to troll the champ trains, or whatever other casual content farm there is.

So in all these forums, all of the complaints come from casuals?? I’m confused.

The anti-selling crowd maliciously plans and inflicts harm on the dungeon sellers in game. There is no opposite equivalent in the other direction, dungeon crowd maliciously griefing the casual scene, which is what my example showed. Your post where you switched the words around created a false equivalence as if the two positions were equally malignant. That is not correct.

Your being a tad dramatic, how does anyone maliciously affect your time in GW2, I was simply pointing out the argument could go the other way. (Ie isn’t the casual vs. hardcore argument getting old?) Are we not just gamming enthusiasts with different opinions?

It is not over dramatic. One example:

People don’t think selling dungeon is right. Some people will just complain. However some white knights will make a party with another friend, and merge their party into the sellers. They will then kick the person selling, which means the instance is destroyed.

It’s the equivalent of a baker selling a cake for $200. Instead of saying “oh, that’s too expensive” you pretend to shop at his store, and then you smash the cake on the ground, then run away.

Ethics.4519:

…
It’s the equivalent of a baker selling a cake for $200. Instead of saying “oh, that’s too expensive” you pretend to shop at his store, and then you smash the cake on the ground, then run away.

They don’t need to run away because the government is still gathering feedback.

Ethics.4519:

However some white knights will make a party with another friend, and merge their party into the sellers. They will then kick the person selling, which means the instance is destroyed.

I saw this happen. I recommended to the seller to report them for griefing. I hope they got their just deserts.

Jamais vu.5284:

Ethics.4519:

However some white knights will make a party with another friend, and merge their party into the sellers. They will then kick the person selling, which means the instance is destroyed.

I saw this happen. I recommended to the seller to report them for griefing. I hope they got their just deserts.

and this is why you should always get fillers.

That’s what you, I, and a lot of other people think, but selling dungeon spots is legal (ANet answered this, search a bit for the topic), and it won’t end if there are people buying
My suggestion: find a guild and run Arah

Why you ask. Why would it be illegal? I mean, they sure made dungeons to be rewarding (tried to), but this kind of content has seen no love since the AC changes (first half of the year)(no, the gold reward is not love, no balance between time-challenge/reward)
So dungeons are just that, people exploit and sell, and nothing has been done or will ever be, sadly

TimTWW.5867:

After reading everyone’s opinion and reasons I cant say that I support selling but there isn’t much of a chance of it being fixed due to how popular you seem to make it. So I got what I wanted out of this thread. Thanks for your oppinion

Anet has explicitly said they are ok with people selling paths. There’s no “fixing” to be done here.

Goldberg.4831:

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

Goldberg.4831:

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

So yes, I see what you just did there. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_equivalence

The dungeon pve community of so-called elitists don’t going around reporting people for champ train farming. We don’t go out of our way to troll the champ trains, or whatever other casual content farm there is.

So in all these forums, all of the complaints come from casuals?? I’m confused.

The anti-selling crowd maliciously plans and inflicts harm on the dungeon sellers in game. There is no opposite equivalent in the other direction, dungeon crowd maliciously griefing the casual scene, which is what my example showed. Your post where you switched the words around created a false equivalence as if the two positions were equally malignant. That is not correct.

Your being a tad dramatic, how does anyone maliciously affect your time in GW2, I was simply pointing out the argument could go the other way. (Ie isn’t the casual vs. hardcore argument getting old?) Are we not just gamming enthusiasts with different opinions?

I know exactly what you mean. One of my firsst few times running Arah, we wiped a few times on Lupi, 3 people decided that it was enough and left the group. So me and the other guy posted on LFG asking for an experienced player’s help. 3 People joined up after a few seconds. Then one of them typed something in /p “L2P noobs this dungeon isn’t for you” and another guy “Go watch a video and stop wasting everyone’s time *”. Beofre I could respond to tell them off, my screen changed to the cursed shores loading screen, found myself party-less. Needless to say I was very angry and oh yeah this story is totally made up.

Keiel.7489:

Goldberg.4831:

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

Goldberg.4831:

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

So yes, I see what you just did there. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_equivalence

The dungeon pve community of so-called elitists don’t going around reporting people for champ train farming. We don’t go out of our way to troll the champ trains, or whatever other casual content farm there is.

So in all these forums, all of the complaints come from casuals?? I’m confused.

The anti-selling crowd maliciously plans and inflicts harm on the dungeon sellers in game. There is no opposite equivalent in the other direction, dungeon crowd maliciously griefing the casual scene, which is what my example showed. Your post where you switched the words around created a false equivalence as if the two positions were equally malignant. That is not correct.

Your being a tad dramatic, how does anyone maliciously affect your time in GW2, I was simply pointing out the argument could go the other way. (Ie isn’t the casual vs. hardcore argument getting old?) Are we not just gamming enthusiasts with different opinions?

I know exactly what you mean. One of my firsst few times running Arah, we wiped a few times on Lupi, 3 people decided that it was enough and left the group. So me and the other guy posted on LFG asking for an experienced player’s help. 3 People joined up after a few seconds. Then one of them typed something in /p “L2P noobs this dungeon isn’t for you” and another guy “Go watch a video and stop wasting everyone’s time *”. Beofre I could respond to tell them off, my screen changed to the cursed shores loading screen, found myself party-less. Needless to say I was very angry and oh yeah this story is totally made up.

Players who are actually “good” wouldn’t tell you to kitten off and kick you out.

Why do people find it so hard to believe that sellers are maliciously attacked? Theres a reason we go fill groups slowly with fillers. Wed rather not waste our time and the time of our genuine customers by getting our instance destroyed by some griefing little kitten.

TheKillerAngel.3596:

Keiel.7489:

Goldberg.4831:

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

Goldberg.4831:

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

So yes, I see what you just did there. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_equivalence

The dungeon pve community of so-called elitists don’t going around reporting people for champ train farming. We don’t go out of our way to troll the champ trains, or whatever other casual content farm there is.

So in all these forums, all of the complaints come from casuals?? I’m confused.

The anti-selling crowd maliciously plans and inflicts harm on the dungeon sellers in game. There is no opposite equivalent in the other direction, dungeon crowd maliciously griefing the casual scene, which is what my example showed. Your post where you switched the words around created a false equivalence as if the two positions were equally malignant. That is not correct.

Your being a tad dramatic, how does anyone maliciously affect your time in GW2, I was simply pointing out the argument could go the other way. (Ie isn’t the casual vs. hardcore argument getting old?) Are we not just gamming enthusiasts with different opinions?

I know exactly what you mean. One of my firsst few times running Arah, we wiped a few times on Lupi, 3 people decided that it was enough and left the group. So me and the other guy posted on LFG asking for an experienced player’s help. 3 People joined up after a few seconds. Then one of them typed something in /p “L2P noobs this dungeon isn’t for you” and another guy “Go watch a video and stop wasting everyone’s time *”. Beofre I could respond to tell them off, my screen changed to the cursed shores loading screen, found myself party-less. Needless to say I was very angry and oh yeah this story is totally made up.

Players who are actually “good” wouldn’t tell you to kitten off and kick you out.

Read the last sentence again.

I see no problem with selling dungeons. In the original guild wars, people would pay to be run through annoying or long areas. Payed for people to solo dungeons or something like doa/underworld

My stance is that there’s nothing wrong with selling a path so long as you didn’t boot someone from your group to make room.

They should be allowed to sell whatever service they want. The only caveat is that buyers need to beware that scams are rampant and they buy at their own risk.