Guild Wars 2

Hey there guys.

So I was out of the game for few months due to personal reasons and I’m back for a month now and loving it but 1 things just acts as a thorn in my eye.

More often than not I see people selling dungeon paths. Let’s agree its a legit thing to do (which it isn’t because most “path sellers” exploit bugs and i urge ANet to pay to a such person ONCE to show them the bugs and ban them for life), do you think it’s honorable? And why the heck are people actually wasting money on it?

From my perspective all dungeon paths have been nerfed to hell since headstart and most paths are soloable without the need to use exploits. Why then people are supposed to pay to do a dungeon? Why such people exist and make profit out of it?

Doesn’t that undermine this whole MMO experience, you know … gather together to tackle common goals and feel better for yourselves by doing so?

I’ve always grouped with all kind of people and dealing with their bull…. but in the end I’ve achieved the goal.

Let’s take arah for example, it’s a THING nowadays to skip Lupicus. I mean what the kitten >.>

I’m really kitten ed and frustrated what this community has done in the game lately. My question is, are ArenaNET somehow going to try and fix this. Are they okay with the current status quo ?

Also I’m curious what the community thinks
Are the people paying, paying because they can’t do the dungeon themselves, or because they don’t want to deal with pugs or is it something else?

P.S: Paying for dungeons apparently has become so common that even within guilds the sentence “Hey guys join me in XX dungeon for FREE!!!” are totally ok. Like … NOT paying for a dungeon within the guild is a thing now ._.

Also I find it very strange that people are anxious to join parties. More often than not when I shout in guild like “lf3m XX dungeon” the rest of the people are “Can I join you?” as if I’d charge them money. What’s with the mindset ._.

Is it just me or Gw2 community has serious problem about those dungeons :|

P.S: Yeah devs you should really keep up with the dungeon bugs. I appreciate the 2 week living world updates, but I’m okay if you ditch them and focus on current bugs, thanks!

/discuss

The problem is, a lot of people didnt dind dungeons fun. Mobs with too much health. Mobs hitting too much hard. Mechanics confusing for the first time, but at the end, no fun. No great reward also for the time invested also.

I must disagree with the not fun part, some of us like it a lot some others dont…i personally enjoy them especially because i have played other MMOs in the past and i know what a really boring with poor mechanics dungeon means.I enjoy and appreciate the mechanics of Gw2 dungeons and fractals, although yes they need some bug fixes…

Posting in a “dungeon selling is an exploit” thread!

Nightwolf.6052:

The problem is, a lot of people didnt dind dungeons fun. Mobs with too much health. Mobs hitting too much hard. Mechanics confusing for the first time, but at the end, no fun. No great reward also for the time invested also.

I’ve done arah with first timers, even Dwayna “for free”. All it takes is for people to listen. Nobody find the mobs hard if you have group synergy, you know … proper support/dps and tactics. Never felt I have to get payed, the dungeon reward is good enough.

Few days ago i did fractals 18 for the lvl 1 chest with a first timer with 0 agony resist. Didn’t feel the need to get payed etc :/

Emanuel.9781:

Posting in a “dungeon selling is an exploit” thread!

Not really. I’m more interested in what the community thinks and how ANet feel about the way dungeon progressing has gone its way.

Ravenmoon.5318:

Nightwolf.6052:

The problem is, a lot of people didnt dind dungeons fun. Mobs with too much health. Mobs hitting too much hard. Mechanics confusing for the first time, but at the end, no fun. No great reward also for the time invested also.

I’ve done arah with first timers, even Dwayna “for free”. All it takes is for people to listen. Nobody find the mobs hard if you have group synergy, you know … proper support/dps and tactics. Never felt I have to get payed, the dungeon reward is good enough.

Few days ago i did fractals 18 for the lvl 1 chest with a first timer with 0 agony resist. Didn’t feel the need to get payed etc :/

Of course. Some people find the dungeons fun (but not me, not my friends) also finds the mechanic fun (again, not bt me, not my friends, what the hell almost half of dungeon needs to be done “running” like chicks!!!) That’s why a better system (two different difficult tiers, better reward with more money, more chance to get better tokens, whatever) needs to be done, since the learning curve on dungeons are devastating (and to the end, not fun, very few dungeons I felt great to complete). Too much veteran enemies instead normal that only serve to waste time. Of course is my opinion (and again, my friends) and i can see dungeons are nor the “selling point” of this game. And thats a pity.

Anyway, back to topic, selling dungeons is a normal thing, if someone is going to buy it. Much like gold sellers.

But I don’t get it. The best gold reward from a dungeon is 3g, the sellers charge for like 20g per path, I’m sorry I just don’t see how that’s profitable. It’s on the brink of kittenly stupid. Correct me if I’m wrong.

Ravenmoon.5318:

But I don’t get it. The best gold reward from a dungeon is 3g, the sellers charge for like 20g per path, I’m sorry I just don’t see how that’s profitable. It’s on the brink of kittenly stupid. Correct me if I’m wrong.

You are most likely referring to Arah path 4.
Buying this path is not about token, people do it to get the dungeon master title.
Some people apparently feel like they have achieved something if they buy the title.
Good for the sellers, at least they can get something out of it.
Arah too lives from its reputation to a certain degree – it is not as difficult, as people make it sound.

Nah, just go to the LFG tool, people are selling AC paths, COE paths ARAH paths (1,2,4) and it just blows my mind, WHY ?!?

Certain people made hundreds of gold this way and I’m only not doing it because I find it immoral and stupid. I also like helping out the community on my server. The only “payment” I want is to be considered for future runs /o/ by proving my skill time and time again. I rarely turn down invitations.

I think it’s fine. If you don’t think it’s right, then don’t buy the paths.

Arena net has already said it’s an acceptable practice unless the seller exploited/scams. In which case you need proof before you go around throwing out accusations.

Ravenmoon.5318:

Nah, just go to the LFG tool, people are selling AC paths, COE paths ARAH paths (1,2,4) and it just blows my mind, WHY ?!?

Just think what’s money? Its basically time. Easy time to do things. Easy time to take tokens and a reward that might be an exotic.

As long as someone will pay, someone will pay. And since people love to have huge ammount of money….

Ethics.4519:

I think it’s fine. If you don’t think it’s right, then don’t buy the paths.

Arena net has already said it’s an acceptable practice unless the seller exploited/scams. In which case you need proof before you go around throwing out accusations.

The thing is that most sellers exploit and glitch the dungeons. I made the mistake of joining one guildie in his run (I didn’t pay of course since it was “free”) and there was so much wall texture glitching, I just wanted to puke. And he also skipped Lupicus.

I find it hillarious for such people to keep abusing the game and ANet not taking an action. :|

And why would someone need the tokens when they are paying 20g+? Taking into consideration you need like 3-4 paths of full reward thats 60-80 gold, you can buy complete exotics from the TP this way o.O with the insignia you want not the one provided by dungeon gear o.o

Ravenmoon.5318:

Ethics.4519:

I think it’s fine. If you don’t think it’s right, then don’t buy the paths.

Arena net has already said it’s an acceptable practice unless the seller exploited/scams. In which case you need proof before you go around throwing out accusations.

The thing is that most sellers exploit and glitch the dungeons. I made the mistake of joining one guildie in his run (I didn’t pay of course since it was “free”) and there was so much wall texture glitching, I just wanted to puke. And he also skipped Lupicus.

I find it hillarious for such people to keep abusing the game and ANet not taking an action. :|

And why would someone need the tokens when they are paying 20g+? Taking into consideration you need like 3-4 paths of full reward thats 60-80 gold, you can buy complete exotics from the TP this way o.O with the insignia you want not the one provided by dungeon gear o.o

Then you should report him in game and leave it at that. It’s actually against the TOS to accuse somebody (anybody, or a group of people) of exploiting/scamming/cheating/hacking/etc on the forums.

The look of dungeon gear can only be bought in dungeons with tokens. A lot of people sell and a lot of people buy, so why are you in such desperate need to know why people buy paths?

Why do people pay to have somebody cut their hair? Why do people pay to have somebody change their oil? They see the service as being worth the price, so they don’t have to do it.

3 words, supply and demand. People want to do Arah but might not have the means. People have the means and want to capitalize. Boom marry the two and you have a beautiful system where someone can offer their services and be compensated. It takes 2 to tango. Peanut butter goes great with jelly. Two peas in a pod. If people weren’t willing to pay I can guarantee there wouldn’t be sellers.

People don’t buy P4 for tokens, that’s only for their Dungeon “Master”.

Thing is, would my report change anything. It’s really about how ANet feels on the matter. Back before the AC revamp ANet were “okay” with people getting up the stairs and shooting the howling king from there with 0 risk. They were “okay” as in – it wasn’t a bannable offense and everybody was doing it.

Now the same thing happens, and even though I disagree with it, it doesn’t seem ANet is punishing violators. Idk if they are busy preparing some massive dungeon content overhaul or something, but the way dungeons are now is ridiculous.

and @Ethics the examples you gave have logic behind them. I just can’t find the logic in buying a dungeon path from an exploiter. It’s like supporting gold selling (to me at least)

Ravenmoon.5318:

Thing is, would my report change anything. It’s really about how ANet feels on the matter. Back before the AC revamp ANet were “okay” with people getting up the stairs and shooting the howling king from there with 0 risk. They were “okay” as in – it wasn’t a bannable offense and everybody was doing it.

Now the same thing happens, and even though I disagree with it, it doesn’t seem ANet is punishing violators. Idk if they are busy preparing some massive dungeon content overhaul or something, but the way dungeons are now is ridiculous.

and @Ethics the examples you gave have logic behind them. I just can’t find the logic in buying a dungeon path from an exploiter. It’s like supporting gold selling (to me at least)

The exploit you talked about, is a bannable offense. All exploits are. If you report somebody for doing it, I’m sure eventually they would receive a temp-ban.

As for my example, I can’t find the logic in paying somebody $80 to change my oil (synthetic, turbo) when I can do it myself for much cheaper. However, tons of peeople do, and I’m okay with it.

For the last time though, you are accusing people of exploiting/scamming which is against the TOS. You have NO PROOF that every sell exploits. Those that do, you should report in game.

Ethics.4519:

Ravenmoon.5318:

Thing is, would my report change anything. It’s really about how ANet feels on the matter. Back before the AC revamp ANet were “okay” with people getting up the stairs and shooting the howling king from there with 0 risk. They were “okay” as in – it wasn’t a bannable offense and everybody was doing it.

Now the same thing happens, and even though I disagree with it, it doesn’t seem ANet is punishing violators. Idk if they are busy preparing some massive dungeon content overhaul or something, but the way dungeons are now is ridiculous.

and @Ethics the examples you gave have logic behind them. I just can’t find the logic in buying a dungeon path from an exploiter. It’s like supporting gold selling (to me at least)

The exploit you talked about, is a bannable offense. All exploits are. If you report somebody for doing it, I’m sure eventually they would receive a temp-ban.

As for my example, I can’t find the logic in paying somebody $80 to change my oil (synthetic, turbo) when I can do it myself for much cheaper. However, tons of peeople do, and I’m okay with it.

For the last time though, you are accusing people of exploiting/scamming which is against the TOS. You have NO PROOF that every sell exploits. Those that do, you should report in game.

Proff is Lupicus Wp.

ParadoX.3124:

Proff is Lupicus Wp.

I shall assume this is 100% sarcasm. Cuz… well…. come on.

You keep saying Exploiters, but what you don’t know or don’t understand is there are people out there who solo/duo every path in the game (including Arah)100% WITHOUT exploits. And yes, that includes soloing Lupi. YouTube it if you don’t believe us.

There are 3 types of path sellers:

1. Scammers who pug and kick
2. Eploiters who take advantage of bugs/skips
3. LEGIT solo players who do everything by the book

Report 1 and 2, and leave 3 out of the conversation entirely, because they’re not doing anything wrong.

Money makes the world go ’round.

It doesn’t bother me to see paths for sale but I personally would never buy one. I’d be embarrassed knowing I didn’t earn my title or gear. That said, kudos to people that can solo or duo their way to the point where they can sell paths – boo on people that kick and sell without permission, though.

Tentonhammr.7849:

You keep saying Exploiters, but what you don’t know or don’t understand is there are people out there who solo/duo every path in the game (including Arah)100% WITHOUT exploits. And yes, that includes soloing Lupi. YouTube it if you don’t believe us.

There are 3 types of path sellers:

1. Scammers who pug and kick
2. Eploiters who take advantage of bugs/skips
3. LEGIT solo players who do everything by the book

Report 1 and 2, and leave 3 out of the conversation entirely, because they’re not doing anything wrong.

Thank you. And until you (OP) have proof of 1, 2, or 3, don’t assume that everybody falls into 1 or 2 only.

Ravenmoon.5318:

The thing is that most sellers exploit and glitch the dungeons.

I have sold a lot of arah paths. It is generally done when we can only find 4 people willing to play. So instead of gouging my eyes out with a pug who doesn’t listen, we just 4 man the arah paths and make extra 20 gold combined after doing p1-3. We also post the stream in the LFG, so people can watch if we are “exploiting” the dungeon.

tl;dr: Not everyone exploits dungeons. So stop being mad at things you can’t control.

I would really like to hear Anet’s stance on dungeon selling. Inherently I think it’s a very good thing for the game, except when the sellers use glitches and exploits.

My biggest concern is around a buyer buying a dungeon path, which was completed by people using glitches/exploits. i.e. can a buyer get in trouble/banned for buying a path that, unknown to him, was previously glitched through by the sellers?

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Please-fix-people-selling-dungeon-slots/page/5#post1162080

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Selling-dungeons-is-allowed/first#post3061531

Yes, selling dungeons is allowed

(side note: bookmarking these threads is really going to turn into a timesaver!)

If you’re bad enough to need to buy dungeon runs…

Couldn’t care less as long as I’m not being kicked to make room for it. I’m looking at you 2 man kick mechanic.

Some pure WvW players don’t give a kitten about PvE but they care about skins, you can’t force them to learn dungeons, stupid PvE mechanics and possibly have to play with terrible players to get their skins. So yeah, selling paths is a good deed~

I think dungeon selling sucks because either

a) dungeon is way too easy to solo/duo
b) exploits
c) kicking is overpowered as a mechanic (too high reward/effort)
d) system which allows skipping skill checks

Wethospu.6437:

I think dungeon selling sucks because either

a) dungeon is way too easy to solo/duo
b) exploits
c) kicking is overpowered as a mechanic (too high reward/effort).

They should nerf kicking. Change it to when you get kicked from a party, you get put into one other random party who just kicked someone. It could be like football, pass the PUG until you score (get one you like).

Well, thank you for pointing me in the direction of this thread, via the one I posted on Arah.

Seems a very small percentile of the community has even spoken up here, so I will definitely contribute.

No, it’s not okay. Kicking people from an existing group that did the work to gain from the end boss is really really unsound.

Sadly I guess there no longer exists an invisible code of “ethics” we subscribe to where we don’t walk all over people for some change in our purses.

Perhaps the next time I hand a few gold to a new player I should expect a whisper asking why it wasn’t more.

I’m not a control freak and I can solo Lupi. And you should really remove your pink-tainted glasses and look the dungeon sellers for what they really are.

Yes I know that some people generally solo the whole paths alone with 0 bugs and exploits I have friends that do this and in groups I usually run ahead to light WPs and whatnot, but selling dungeon runs is the lowest way of hoarding gold IMO.

IMO ANet should enforce team mechanics (like in CoF p3) in most dungeons, so you would be unable to continue solo. Upscale the dungeons for 5 players. After all dungeons ARE group content. Skipping kittenton of content solo because its easier is just plain-wrong.

I suppose we should start doing like we used to do it in Lineage 2 at end game.That is to have a constant party and forget about dealing with community bullkitten and kicks. People whom you can trust and have fun with.

This makes me sad. I had higher hopes for Gw2’s community

I agree with you, I’m not going to knock so much on those that solo, because hopefully, it is a time consuming challenge, and some of the videos I’ve watched really do suggest that. I also agree with your point of having multiple player roadblocks. Maybe increase the roadblock difficulty with the amount of people, and adjust the rewards for solo players?

Fixing the sale of paths is the biggest issue for me, because of generally how that last boss slot was achieved.

If they are going to stop selling then they need to nerf champ farming and buff dungeon rewards. They should do that anyway. Only way to compete with champ farmers is to sell dungeons. Obviously playing the TP is the best way to make gold, but im far to lazy to do that boring kitten for gold.

In the end, what should be said in regards to all of this is :

People are farming Queensdale of Frostgorge and making money. Some people don’t like to do this, and some of them happen to be able to solo/duo dungeons

Thus if they need money they can solo/duo and sell a legit run. The blame, if there must be blame should be on those who buy, because the offer meets the demand (if nobody was okay with buying, nobody would sell).

On the other hand, there are people who kick others to sell or glitch through dungeons. This is lame and mustn’t be supported.

And that’s it. Nothing else to be said. Now if you don’t like people selling, nothing can be done, because while there are buyers, there will be sellers. and if someday people stop buying at current market prices, sellers will probably just sell at a price equivalent to path reward so it becomes a win-win situation…

You can draw a parallel between this and real life market situations : I make money but I’m not able to make a straw hat, so I buy one from someone who is actually able to make it…

I personally have no issue with people selling other players an easy ride. They used to do that with the Droknar Run in GW1, and it was a challenge all in itself. What I do have an issue with is people getting kicked from groups at the end of a dungeon, to sell the slots.

I don’t think these people should be banned for using bugs in the map. It is the responsibility of the level designers to make the maps water tight, and honestly it’s not difficult to close these holes. Just place an invisible wall, and done. It’s like one mouse click. But you have maps like Field of Ruin where you can walk right out of the map without even trying. Honestly, some of the maps have holes in them the size of Norgu’s appetite. It’s sloppiness, and no player should be punished for that.

The OP does have a point that it is rather worrying that people would rather skip the whole dungeon than play them. I think a lot of players just really hate the dungeons, and I agree with them, they are terrible. But then the problem lies in the dungeons themselves, and not in the act of selling slots.

Not sure if someone has already said this, but usually people don’t buy dungeon paths because they are incapable of completing the dungeon themselves, but because they would rather spend their time elsewhere and just spend the gold for the completion (either for dungeon master of for the daily tokens for gear). Often times a regular WvW player will like the look of a certain dungeon armor and since they don’t enjoy the PvE side of this game they would prefer to just pay a few gold each day for their daily tokens. If there are people that want to buy it and people that went to sell it, who are we to say they should or shouldn’t be allowed to do so? To begin banning for this would be alot like starting a “War on Drugs” which would only make things worse.

As for exploiting, that will always happen and while I am not a big fan of certain ones like Lupicus skips, it is anet’s job to make sure that people can’t/don’t want to exploit, not ours.

Enaretos.8079:

In the end, what should be said in regards to all of this is :

People are farming Queensdale of Frostgorge and making money. Some people don’t like to do this, and some of them happen to be able to solo/duo dungeons

Thus if they need money they can solo/duo and sell a legit run. The blame, if there must be blame should be on those who buy, because the offer meets the demand (if nobody was okay with buying, nobody would sell).

On the other hand, there are people who kick others to sell or glitch through dungeons. This is lame and mustn’t be supported.

And that’s it. Nothing else to be said. Now if you don’t like people selling, nothing can be done, because while there are buyers, there will be sellers. and if someday people stop buying at current market prices, sellers will probably just sell at a price equivalent to path reward so it becomes a win-win situation…

You can draw a parallel between this and real life market situations : I make money but I’m not able to make a straw hat, so I buy one from someone who is actually able to make it…

So by your logic we should all go and buy game gold from chinese vendors and screw this all gem thing, right? Since there are obviously people who would buy that kind of crap o.O

Buying gold from third party websites is clearly banned by Anet. Plus, it’s buying ingame currency with real world currency. It isn’t the same as exchanging ingame money for an ingame service.

Your comparison is simply bad.

An i’ll add another thing, the theory is that if there are potential buyers, there is an offer. Thus the fact that there are buyers for “chinese” gold, implis that there is an offer. It doesn’t justify buying from them, it justifies their existence

Enaretos.8079:

Buying gold from third party websites is clearly banned by Anet. Plus, it’s buying ingame currency with real world currency. It isn’t the same as exchanging ingame money for an ingame service.

Your comparison is simply bad.

Last time I checked exploiting was and it still is bannable offense. Doesn’t stop people from blaming ANet for being sloppy rather than, you know, play the game it’s meant to be played. kitten me right

I don’t think that the people posting here are exploiters. I mean people from rT have been kind enough to accept me in some of their runs. I’ve seen how they play and it’s legit.

Yeah most people posting here can do the path solo / duo legit

Selling paths have always been in Guild Wars, in GW1 it was a normal thing to buy Droknars /Desert outpost runs or sell dungeon and mission runs. Besides its fun to play with friends in a smaller group and have some extra profit on the side. I would never have wanted to do Arah P4 again if I didnt know it could be duoed / 3 manned faster than in a usual pug group.

As for exploits, Anet been stealth fixing Arah P2 lately but its all only band aid fixes, they’ve yet to make Lupi sequence checked which makes selling P1 and P2 so lucrative for those who exploit since they can ‘solo’ a run faster.

Ravenmoon.5318:

Enaretos.8079:

Buying gold from third party websites is clearly banned by Anet. Plus, it’s buying ingame currency with real world currency. It isn’t the same as exchanging ingame money for an ingame service.

Your comparison is simply bad.

Last time I checked exploiting was and it still is bannable offense. Doesn’t stop people from blaming ANet for being sloppy rather than, you know, play the game it’s meant to be played. kitten me right

You can actually duo and solo dungeons without exploiting. News to many people I am sure. -_-

I think one thing they could do, is to simply make running the dungeon more profitable. In GW1 two of the most popular elite areas (Underworld and Fissure of Woe) dropped rare materials (Obsidian Shards and Globs of Ectoplasm) which were needed to craft the much desired Obsidian Armor. Those materials dropped from almost all foes in these dungeons, and thus playing through the whole thing from start to finish, was something people actually wanted to do. If they did the same thing for GW2, it would be more fun to do these dungeons, and it would remove some of the insane material grind.

Put dragonite in dungeon boss chests please!

^ This ! My server doesn’t have enough people doing worldbosses/temples. It fails too often.

My personal policy on dungeon selling :
1. Never buy a run.
2. Try to run full guild, if not possible, complete with pugs.
3. If running with pugs, try to open the dungeon, if not possible, temporary add any pug to friendlist.
4. Report offending player if getting kicked.

It didn’t happen to me directly, but it did happen a couple of times to some of my guildies. It’s enervating to say the least to drag a couple of bad pugs to the other end of way too long run, only to get kicked out and have your place sold.

The problem is, for a couple of groups that solo/duo it legitimately, most seller either grief other people or exploit bugs.

Currently, most of the LFG for Arah is over-runned by sellers. I’ve recently seen people trying to sell CoF 1 and AC 3 for 2 gold or more… Two of the most easy-mode ten minutes runs. I don’t see anyone in their right mind either selling or buying this, and I’m pretty sure these aren’t legit runs (mandatory 5man event for CoF 1, anyone ?).

I’d rather have this behaviour banned than become the standard.