Guild Wars 2

My Question to the Support:

[10.10.2013 18:12]

Hallo,

ist es erlaubt, wenn man ein Dungeon (man nehme als Beispiel Arah) alleine oder zu zweit legal – also, ohne skips, exploits, bugs oder sonstige verbotene Mitteln – durchspielt, diese dann im Ingame-Lfg-Tool gegen Gold an Spieler zu verkaufen?

Vielen Dank im Voraus für die Antwort.

Answer

[11.10.2013 08:57]

Hallo […],

vielen Dank, dass du dich an das europäische Support Team gewendet hast.

Es sollte kein Problem sein, solange es nicht gegen die Nutzervereinbarung verstößt, bzw. wenn ihr den Dungeon ohne Exploits oder ähnliches durchspielt.

Sollten weitere Fragen oder Probleme auftauchen, stehen wir dir jederzeit gerne zur Verfügung.

Mit freundlichen Grüßen

GM Andi
Guild Wars 2 Kundenbetreuung
http://de.support.guildwars2.com

To sum it up in English: It is allowed to sell dungeon runs with the ingame-lfg-tool if one doesn’t use exploits or similar.

Please stop kicking random people from the LFG-Tool who sell legally their run. At least check the run out whether exploits/skips were used or not. Thanks.

PS: I’m sorry, I forgot to ask the question in English. :p

Comment from interested parties?

PS: German is beautiful language, don’t be sorry.

Nice work, my son. Though if you like asking support about things, you should ask them about the use of the LFG tool to sell. Unless of course you did; I won’t pretend I know german beyond the extreme basics.

EDIT: I’ll just assume that was your question, I actually bothered to read it properly and saw ‘ingame lfg tool’. I’ll go back to my hole now.

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

EDIT: I’ll just assume that was your question, I actually bothered to read it properly and saw ‘ingame lfg tool’. I’ll go back to my hole now.

Correct. I’ve edited it.

TriPleEM.4873:

Please stop kicking random people from the LFG-Tool who sell legally their run. At least check the run out whether exploits/skips were used or not. Thanks.

I’m not following the order of action here, or maybe I just don’t understand how the tool works, or how ‘selling’ your dungeon run works? And then…how someone kicks you? Are you selling spots in your own group to ‘escort’ people through a dungeon? That’s actually kinda cool, if I could afford it, as I’ll need some help with Arah some day if I get The Legend and it seems like ‘everyone’ advertises ‘experienced only’ on those runs.

But then…how would we kick you? You can kick the party leader out of their own party?

I’m not understanding the mechanics.

Yes , istance owner can be kicked as long 2 people vote for it.
What kickers do is joining in a seller party with a friend and kick him from his own istance causing it to close and lose all progresses for that run.

There are some people on this forums that admitted that they kick dungeons sellers because “lfg is not a shop” or " I don’t care if they did it legit or not".
I would like to see their comments on this and apologise with the people they have kicked but that’s never going to happen they will just continue with their private justice.

blessing nosferatu.3784:

There are some people on this forums that admitted that they kick dungeons sellers because “lfg is not a shop” or " I don’t care if they did it legit or not".
I would like to see their comments on this and apologise with the people they have kicked but that’s never going to happen they will just continue with their private justice.

Just keep waiting. I’m sure you wont be waiting thaaaaaat long.

Should make this thread 100 times so those people see it.

Tree.3916:

Should make this thread 100 times so those people see it.

Sticky it so we can just link it without having to search for pages like the robert’s post.

RIP in peace Robert.

I don’t mind people outright selling spots.

What I do object to is people doing all the work and then being kicked FOR THE EXPRESS PURPOSE of selling their slot.

If there’s a lesson here, it’s “Only run with people you trust.”

blessing nosferatu.3784:

I would like to see their comments on this and apologise with the people they have kicked

These days a simple apologize is already too much for people. Too sad.

notebene.3190:

TriPleEM.4873:

Please stop kicking random people from the LFG-Tool who sell legally their run. At least check the run out whether exploits/skips were used or not. Thanks.

I’m not following the order of action here, or maybe I just don’t understand how the tool works, or how ‘selling’ your dungeon run works? And then…how someone kicks you? Are you selling spots in your own group to ‘escort’ people through a dungeon? That’s actually kinda cool, if I could afford it, as I’ll need some help with Arah some day if I get The Legend and it seems like ‘everyone’ advertises ‘experienced only’ on those runs.

But then…how would we kick you? You can kick the party leader out of their own party?

I’m not understanding the mechanics.

You basically solo the dungeon and then stop before the last boss and invite people who are interested in “buying”. They pay you, you kill the last boss, the dungeon completes and they get all the completion rewards (gold, tokens, experience, karma, fragments, Dungeon Master, etc.) just by virtue of being in the dungeon with you.

It’s a good way for people who aren’t good at dungeons to get tokens for difficult ones like Arah, or just to get free fragments and experience.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

notebene.3190:

TriPleEM.4873:

Please stop kicking random people from the LFG-Tool who sell legally their run. At least check the run out whether exploits/skips were used or not. Thanks.

I’m not following the order of action here, or maybe I just don’t understand how the tool works, or how ‘selling’ your dungeon run works? And then…how someone kicks you? Are you selling spots in your own group to ‘escort’ people through a dungeon? That’s actually kinda cool, if I could afford it, as I’ll need some help with Arah some day if I get The Legend and it seems like ‘everyone’ advertises ‘experienced only’ on those runs.

But then…how would we kick you? You can kick the party leader out of their own party?

I’m not understanding the mechanics.

You basically solo the dungeon and then stop before the last boss and invite people who are interested in “buying”. They pay you, you kill the last boss, the dungeon completes and they get all the completion rewards (gold, tokens, experience, karma, fragments, Dungeon Master, etc.) just by virtue of being in the dungeon with you.

It’s a good way for people who aren’t good at dungeons to get tokens for difficult ones like Arah, or just to get free fragments and experience.

And the issue is that white knight protectors of the realm would join the group, and kick the person selling, most likely the one who started the instance.

Anybody can get kicked from the party, all it takes is one person to suggest the kick, and one other person in the party to agree. Then the instance is over, and that seller loses the hardwork of doing the dungeon up to that point.

I guess some sellers started protecting themselves by only adding one person. But then that counts down on profit a lot.

Interesting. All the loudest mufflers certainly disappear quick.

What baffles me most about this is that the german support DID ACTUALLY ANSWER?

This must be very confusing for players… since they’ve said the complete opposite before.

https://twitter.com/GuildWars2/status/380793184047366144

Could use some official clarification.

(Not that it’s of personal importance to me since I don’t buy or sell runs… or report anyone for doing so lol)

Aberrant.6749:

This must be very confusing for players… since they’ve said the complete opposite before.

https://twitter.com/GuildWars2/status/380793184047366144

Could use some official clarification.

(Not that it’s of personal importance to me since I don’t buy or sell runs… or report anyone for doing so lol)

That twitter post actually didn’t say that it isn’t legit to sell paths, just that you are free to report people selling spots using the lfg tool.

Dub.1273:

Aberrant.6749:

This must be very confusing for players… since they’ve said the complete opposite before.

https://twitter.com/GuildWars2/status/380793184047366144

Could use some official clarification.

(Not that it’s of personal importance to me since I don’t buy or sell runs… or report anyone for doing so lol)

That twitter post actually didn’t say that it isn’t legit to sell paths, just that you are free to report people selling spots using the lfg tool.

The reply from the question does mention the LFG tool being ok to use it for that though (according to google translate)

Hello,

it is allowed, if you have a dungeon (you take as an example Arah) alone or in pairs legally – ie, without skips, exploits, bugs or other illegal means – through play, then sell in-game Lfg tool against gold to player ?

Thanks in advance for the answer.

answer

[11/10/2013 08:57]

Hello […]

Thank you’ve turned to the European support team.

There should be no problem, as long as it does not violate the User Agreement, or if you play through the dungeon without exploits or similar.

Should any questions or problems arise, please contact us any time you are available.

Sincerely yours

GM Andi
Guild Wars 2 customer care
http://de.support.guildwars2.com

German is my mother tongue.
Still, the twitter post didn’t say that it is forbidden to sell spots via lfg. My first guess on this is that the twitter post was just complete nonsense coming from a community manager to make few people happy (allowing them to play how they want and report who they want).

Dub.1273:

German is my mother tongue.
Still, the twitter post didn’t say that it is forbidden to sell spots via lfg. My first guess on this is that the twitter post was just complete nonsense coming from a community manager to make few people happy (allowing them to play how they want and report who they want).

Oh ok I trust you more than google translate then :P

It’s unclear who gave out the wrong information. It could also be that the twitter was correct, but the reply was not. Idk what’s up with how they feel on this now with the conflicting information. I try not to just presume anything.

Support deal with questions so they should be right. A twitter post isnt exactly credible.

spoj.9672:

Support deal with questions so they should be right. A twitter post isnt exactly credible.

I’ll go ask US support and link them both and see what they say is correct… whenever they get back to me lol.

spoj.9672:

Support deal with questions so they should be right. A twitter post isnt exactly credible.

The amounts of people following the community twitter and this forum tho.

I was kicked from a duo’d arah 4, my rear still hurts.

Ok so I wrote in and gave them a link to the twitter post and the link to this thread with the support ticket and I got this back as a response:

“Thanks for pointing out that we seemed to have had a bit of miscommunication about offering “runs” as a service in the game. I can tell you that runs are not disallowed if they do not in some other way form a breach of the User Agreement or Rules of Conduct. We consider such an offer a form of a “gentleman’s agreement” where two parties agree to a specific service for an agreed sum in in-game currency (or in-game items, as the parties decide).

Naturally, if the run itself involves the use of an exploit, that service is strictly and fully disallowed. (And of course we want to hear about any exploiters.) Runs for real-world money or goods are, likewise, strictly prohibited. And if the service ends in a disputed situation — for instance, someone offers a run and then leaves the party, or offers to pay and then declines to do so — then we may take action against a scammer, if an agent is able to confirm what took place. But because the service is a gentleman’s agreement, we do not get in the middle of repayments, re-dos of the run, etc.

Thank you for asking about this. I’ve written and circulated an internal e-mail so that all team members are clear about our policy on this.

Regards,

Gaile Gray
Support Liaison
ArenaNet"

So yea, go for it

Hopefully the jerks that I hear about going into the parties to kick people will stop (although tbh idk if they care if it’s abuse to do that or not).

5-6 days including a weekend isn’t a bad turnaround time for customer support either (especially considering it got bumped upstairs).

Thanks to everyone who has bothered to ask support about this and providing the information here. Awesome that Gaile herself responded, she is awesome. In the future I will pretty much paste that email to anyone who complains about dungeon selling.

Broadicea.8294:

Aberrant.6749:

Hopefully the jerks that I hear about going into the parties to kick people will stop (although tbh idk if they care if it’s abuse to do that or not).

5-6 days including a weekend isn’t a bad turnaround time for customer support either (especially considering it got bumped upstairs).

Wanna perhaps walk some of this garbage back now?

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Sellers-ruin-dungeons/first

I was working with the info we all had at the time (an 8 month old post vs a specific reply about the LFG system), once new info came around I said I didn’t know since it was conflicting and would look into it for everyone… so no I don’t feel that I need to say sorry to anyone.

Demus.4860:

Thanks to everyone who has bothered to ask support about this and providing the information here. Awesome that Gaile herself responded, she is awesome. In the future I will pretty much paste that email to anyone who complains about dungeon selling.

Yea this should clear everything up. You’re welcome

Horaay! Confirming what we already knew.

Horaay! Still bugger all done about those kicking path sellers.

well I’m pretty sure selling is allowed.

But why is it wrong to kick sellers? I joined a party but I dont’ want to party with you any more and 2 people agrees that you should be kicked. So what’s wrong with me kicking you?

So what you should mail support is if kicking sellers is allowed.

Just in case you didn’t know. Kicking sellers mean destroying their instance and taking away all the progress. Most sellers are near the end of the path and they start selling.

What if they aren’t selling the path? A group with 1 or 2 ppl dc at the third fractals wanting people to replaced the empty slots, is it okay to kick the instance owner of the fractal?

So you’re asking if kicking someone just to destroy his progress and grief him is allowed?

laokoko.7403:

But why is it wrong to kick sellers?

Because it’s griefing, regardless of what you think about sellers.

We hardly need wanna-be batmans running around policing the game. There’s a report tool, use that if you think someone is breaking the rules.

Hmmm, seems like it.
No consequences in a game= can do everything I want because I’m a frustrated kid that needs to be mean without being afraid of getting punched in da face.
Ah, internet.

Everyone already know selling is allowed.

But the problem is it is so obvious kicking is allowed too.

It just take Anet too much human resource to deal with this kind of issue. I doubt Anet will want to get involve.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Kickin-Dungeons-is-Allowed/first#post3059124

Everyone just played the way they want to right? That is why I felt GW2 dungeon community is horrible.

Kicking is allowed. But kicking the host just to destroy the instance is griefing and therefore not allowed.

spoj.9672:

Kicking is allowed. But kicking the host just to destroy the instance is griefing and therefore not allowed.

Apparently players are allowed to play the way they want. And since Anet won’t do anything about it… etc etc

laokoko.7403:

spoj.9672:

Kicking is allowed. But kicking the host just to destroy the instance is griefing and therefore not allowed.

Apparently players are allowed to play the way they want. And since Anet won’t do anything about it… etc etc

Griefing is a violation of your user agreement. If the person you kick is recording a video they have sufficient evidence to submit to anet for anet to take action against your account.

Anybody else realize laokoko is clearly the scum off the bottom of your shoe that joins and kicks people and is just trying to justify it?

^ did you actually go to the link I put up?

I never joined a group to purposely kick seller.

I’m just telling you Anet wont’ do anything about it. Which if you go to the link, that is what a QA said himself.

Which apparently you are wrong. Someone did make a video and have evidence, but Anet didn’t take any action.

I’m not telling you what is morally right or wrong. I’m just telling you weather it is morally right or wrong, justice will never get served.

If Anet even design the game right. This wont’ even be an issue. Why is dungeon selling so common in this game but not other game.

laokoko.7403:

Why is dungeon selling so common in this game but not other game.

In my experience, players in other games are willing to learn and play better.

Also, when These type of people spam reports whenever they see something not going their way I can understand why Anet hasn’t been able to take action towards griefers. Hell, I personally knew someone that uses hacks to teleport all over dungeons. Me and some irl friends has reported him multiple times because we don’t think he deserves to play. Nothing ever happened to his account. Not even a warning. Does that mean hacking is okay?

^ At least Anet didn’t say hacking is ok. And people do get banned for hacking.

But Anet pretty much blatently says they won’t do a thing for people getting kick in dungeon. Unless the kicking involves typing something insulting in party chat.

I think party kicking is just too hard to control and regulate. And apparently some people dont’ think dungeon selling should be part of the game. So this kind of things happened.

They also didn’t say griefing is “ok”.

First of all they should start fixing Lupicus skips (like p3&4) and introducing invisible walls isn’t a fix since players know too many ways to skip him. A 5-10 minute time period where players aren’t allowed to kick the Host could also solve some of the griefing problems.

There’re so many possibilites to fix these issues and I’m still hoping Anet takes some serious action.

As long as we are stuck with this host-dungeon system, what kicking the host logically ought to do is boot the remainder of the party from the instance, while the host hangs alone in their instance. So this behavior is just plain bug exploitation for a specifically malicious purpose.

I remember way back then, if you were dungeon host and got kicked out of your own instance, you could go right back and re-enter your own instance and even invite people back to it. I think the patch that changed how Fractal hosting worked has botched this up.

Making it like it was before would be a huge step forward.

Selling spots is allowed, but they’d stop doing so if people quit paying for easy rewards