Guild Wars 2

This is really annoying. I haven’t been able to Raid (not for lack of trying, but no one wants to do anything that isn’t absolutely fully optimal aka full ascended with meta stats and meta upgrades), so this is locked off. I can’t do anything with the masteries and now any time I spend in HOT maps is worthless from an XP perspective. If the game type is going to be this inaccessible and segregated, then it shouldn’t be lumped in with the rest of HOT. Separate game type, separate masteries for XP (even if it still uses the same mastery points).

I understand the frustration of not being able to accumulate certain mastery tracks. However, the reality is that these Raid masteries apply exclusively to Raid content. They are of no use, and serve no purpose outside of that specific area, and therefore are not truly “lumped in” with other HOT content. You say “Separate game type, separate masteries for XP,” but that is essentially what the game does already.

BrotatoChipps.9158:

They are of no use, and serve no purpose outside of that specific area, and therefore are not truly “lumped in” with other HOT content.

Once you unlock all masteries in a region, you regain the ability to obtain spirit shards for leveling within that region. Most people aren’t going to raid, so they’ll never see that in HoT. If raiding was separated into its own region however (HoT, Tyria, Raids), they would.

I wouldn’t count on seeing it changed however because it’ll soon be forgotten, maybe even abandoned with the next expansion.

Let’s take this a step further. The vast majority of people that raid did not level their raid masteries while doing raids, they did it easy mode in whatever area gave the fastest xp at the time. There is no good reason for it not to be seperated into it’s own set.

Raid masteries should be in their own category just for practical reasons, so any future raid wings can have their masteries put there too. It never did make any sense to lock non-raiders out of spirit shards (whatever little those are worth these days: I’ve literally got thousands) in HoT maps in the first place.

you only need to do wing 3 escort to unlock the mastery. wing 3 escort is really easy. i have seen many lfg with no request for any li .. you need to know what is going on in there though not just jumping in a pug expect to be carried.

Talindra.4958:

you only need to do wing 3 escort to unlock the mastery. wing 3 escort is really easy. i have seen many lfg with no request for any li .. you need to know what is going on in there though not just jumping in a pug expect to be carried.

Easy is quite subjective. Its not easy for everyone. Even if it is arguably definitely the easiest.

Is also sad that for that specific encounter you need at least one mesmer with portal or a few with the mastery unlocked.

Either way, making an own section just for all raids would simply not be a bad idea, just for those who want to get spirit shards, but also could provide a way of making raid mastery progression really tied into raids rather than slapped on the side of HoT open world pve content. I really just did a few raids escort andvale guardian, and grinded all the rest xp and mastery points through open world content. (I would raid but dont have a consistent weekly time to do so, if at all)

An own section would also mean that raid masteries are only progressed through raiding, get their own specific raid mastery points, and cannot be further cheapened making them more true to their name, while basically not involving any content of non-raiders.

To be honest, the ideal solution is to have a selectable spirit shard track. But that takes work, and I’m fine with the status quo.

As others have said, do escort. If you can do dragon stand, you can probably escort.

I’ll note that there’s no difference from someone who hates raids and someone who hates adventures, from a spirit shard perspective. You need to do both to unlock the shards. But, I see a lot of whining re raids, but none from the adventurers.

AND, this was not even a feature at release, but something patched in later. If raids had an extra spirit shard reward from the start, would you still complain?

Absurdo.8309:

AND, this was not even a feature at release, but something patched in later. If raids had an extra spirit shard reward from the start, would you still complain?

It wasn’t really about spirit shards, it was always about people being annoyed that HoT made gaining XP completely useless (which got coupled with many of the new achievements giving xp as a reward) if you had your masteries already.
And, surprise surprise, for a majority of players gaining xp in HoT zones (and new LS zones) is still useless even after a change that was supposed to help with it.

Well Anet can just make it so that players do not earn XP if it has no place to go and consequently not shown in the UI. It’s not wasted then.

Just do Escort. Seriously, it’s easier than Dragon’s Stand. There are only three things you need to know:

• Don’t let Wargs get to Glenna
• Don’t walk inside the red circle of a land mine
• Leave one enemy alive on each tower to prevent them from respawning

There you go! If you need a friend (NA) to help you through it, whisper me when you try to run. I don’t fundamentally object to splitting raid masteries off, but it is an extremely easy thing for anyone to get around.

All of this ignored the people, not gameplay, issue: People will not group with you if you do not have the exact build, equipment, and upgrades that they consider “correct”. So having an “easy” one to do is rendered moot by being unable to access ANY of the raid content.

Boogiepop Void.6473:

All of this ignored the people, not gameplay, issue: People will not group with you if you do not have the exact build, equipment, and upgrades that they consider “correct”. So having an “easy” one to do is rendered moot by being unable to access ANY of the raid content.

You dont need any specific build for that fight. Just 10 people who want to do the encounter. If you have any friends who do have the cleansing water mastery&leyline gliding they can be the group that does towers.

Also, learn to start your own groups. If you don’t like how some people run their groups, be an agent of change and lead your own with your own rules. It’s a novel concept.

This is one of most absurd oversights, on par with previous one with stat combinations locked behind raids. If someone don’t enjoy doing particular activity he should not be locked from basic game stuff because of it. Raid masteries should not block mastery progress.

Rednik.3809:

This is one of most absurd oversights, on par with previous one with stat combinations locked behind raids. If someone don’t enjoy doing particular activity he should not be locked from basic game stuff because of it. Raid masteries should not block mastery progress.

It’s so absurd, that mastery progress is also locked behind adventures and map exploration, which some players also hate!

… or just do escort.

People are not being ALLOWED to join groups to do the raid, even if they want to. Elitism means that people who are perfectly willing and able to do the content are nonetheless completely locked out of it because they don’t fit the current meta for doing it. It’s not about there being or not being an easy thing to do. PEOPLE CANNOT DO ANYTHING IF OTHER PEOPLE WILL NOT GROUP WITH THEM.

Boogiepop Void.6473:

People are not being ALLOWED to join groups to do the raid, even if they want to. Elitism means that people who are perfectly willing and able to do the content are nonetheless completely locked out of it because they don’t fit the current meta for doing it. It’s not about there being or not being an easy thing to do. PEOPLE CANNOT DO ANYTHING IF OTHER PEOPLE WILL NOT GROUP WITH THEM.

I am actually pretty content with your definition of Elitism, though sadly it does not apply to gw2’s current raiding at all.
You are not “completely locked out”, you even got multiple ways of competing in raids with even green gear (Joining Friends, making own lfg posts, just to name a few.)
And people will very well group with you, best example are the learning runs frequently hosted and filled on the lfg as well as being offered by multiple guilds. You just have to put a bit of effort into it…

Boogiepop Void.6473:

People are not being ALLOWED to join groups to do the raid, even if they want to. Elitism means that people who are perfectly willing and able to do the content are nonetheless completely locked out of it because they don’t fit the current meta for doing it. It’s not about there being or not being an easy thing to do. PEOPLE CANNOT DO ANYTHING IF OTHER PEOPLE WILL NOT GROUP WITH THEM.

Make your own group. It’s not that difficult. Players complained about about the same thing with dungeons when all they had to do was to create their own group.

I made my own LFG. People joined, insisted on build-gear check, left when I refused or didn’t give an answer they liked. After hours, abandoned LFG. I don’t have enough friends interested in raiding. I cannot get a group via LFG due to elitism. Therefore, I cannot raid.

And I have heard plenty of similar stories.

Boogiepop Void.6473:

I made my own LFG. People joined, insisted on build-gear check, left when I refused or didn’t give an answer they liked. After hours, abandoned LFG. I don’t have enough friends interested in raiding. I cannot get a group via LFG due to elitism. Therefore, I cannot raid.

And I have heard plenty of similar stories.

Be specific and put “everyone welcome” in the LFG.

Boogiepop Void.6473:

I made my own LFG. People joined, insisted on build-gear check, left when I refused or didn’t give an answer they liked. After hours, abandoned LFG. I don’t have enough friends interested in raiding. I cannot get a group via LFG due to elitism. Therefore, I cannot raid.

And I have heard plenty of similar stories.

On the other side, after 250+ raids, I have never seen a non-commander insist on a gear/build check. When I see bad players or bad builds in the group, I just leave the group.

Boogiepop Void.6473:

I made my own LFG. People joined, insisted on build-gear check, left when I refused or didn’t give an answer they liked. After hours, abandoned LFG. I don’t have enough friends interested in raiding. I cannot get a group via LFG due to elitism. Therefore, I cannot raid.

And I have heard plenty of similar stories.

Don’t worry if you don’t get those responses from raiders in this thread. The escort is the easiest, but if you’re completely new to raiding or even harder content you will not have an easy time at all.

I mean, I don’t think it’s that hard either, but I also know the general skill level in open world content. And i feel confident enough to say that, while escort is doable that skill level is not always as high as many of the veteran players in this thread make it out to be. Leading a group of 10 people, making sure everyone knows what to do, getting 10 people, having the discipline to not give up, keeping the group together. It’s not that easy for people with no experience.

But yeah, afaik, difficulty is entirely subjective. No amount of pushing the “just do escort” line is going to make that any different. I mean, there’s people complaining about things that are much easier than escort.

Even Escort is not for everyone.

I see “do the escort” parroted everywhere. What about the concept of “raiding isn’t my thing”? I fully agree that raid masteries should be moved so that those not interested in that subset of content will not be blocked from taking full advantage of the rest of the game’s content (referencing HoT SS lockout).

Further, and in a similar case, I believe Fractal masteries should be separated to their own category, so that those who don’t fractal are not forced to spend time (EXP) and resources (points) on content they may never utilize so that they may take full advantage of other content (core SS progression). And yes, I fractal.

Though I personally dont have a problem with seperating raid masterys from the rest. The way we have it now, is a design choise that also make sence. It is a soft way to “force” into giving raids a go, just like we have with ALL other game modes. Give WvW a go to get gift of battle, or give LW a go to get gliding etc etc etc.

You might like that design choice or not. All that said, the problem is fairly easy to solve as several others have pointed out. Do escort (some call it siege), I dont believe there is a lvl 80 thats not able to complete escort. I have done it with people of all skill levels, ranging from very skilled players to, can barely do open world bosses like maw. The only time I have not been able to complete escort I had a group where 7 of them was so drunk that they popped auto run and heeded directly for a mine (every single time for 20 min.).

About the “noone will join me” argument, last time I did it, it was a lfg made at 3 AM on a week day, and it took 30 min to fill. Text was “Escort: ALL welcome”. I was able to log mesmer for port, so I guess it had been abit harder if not for this. But you might need to start a lfg youself, though job I know, but if you cant even do that to get the kill, Then I dont really feel for you. sorry

Sigfodr.9576:

Though I personally dont have a problem with seperating raid masterys from the rest. The way we have it now, is a design choise that also make sence. It is a soft way to “force” into giving raids a go, just like we have with ALL other game modes. Give WvW a go to get gift of battle, or give LW a go to get gliding etc etc etc.

But raid apologists are keeps saying that raids are not separated and basically just a part of general PvE, and because of that we don’t need any alternatives to raid rewards for other PvE activities.

They should enable you to get spirit shards without doing the raid mastery. Simple oversight.

But that said, escort was literally developed to be easy enough for anyone to do. If you haven’t managed to do escort it’s because you either: haven’t tried; don’t want to try; would prefer to wait for anet to correct the oversight than solve your own problem. All of those are fine and up to you but don’t try to BD us and say that you tried for SO LONG and put SO MUCH effort in but still couldn’t manage to get trio or escort done. I will accept indifference or apathy but I won’t accept a lie.

Rednik.3809:

Sigfodr.9576:

Though I personally dont have a problem with seperating raid masterys from the rest. The way we have it now, is a design choise that also make sence. It is a soft way to “force” into giving raids a go, just like we have with ALL other game modes. Give WvW a go to get gift of battle, or give LW a go to get gliding etc etc etc.

But raid apologists are keeps saying that raids are not separated and basically just a part of general PvE, and because of that we don’t need any alternatives to raid rewards for other PvE activities.

You’re conflating distinct issues and arguments, besides diminishing the effect of your argument via an ad hominem attack (it doesn’t matter if there are such things as “raid apologists” or not: the argument is either strong or not and should stand on its own).

First, it doesn’t appear to have been a design choice: when HoT was introduced, Raid Masteries were grouped with other HoT masteries and no one cared, because XP after max Mastery didn’t reward us with anything at all. We complained about the lack of reward, and ANet kludged a bonus of spirit shards — that was the least effort change they could make, requiring no need for a new category of masteries and hardly any worry (on their part) about balancing rewards against the rest of the game.

Second, the actual reward of spirit shards is meager. Spirit shards drop from champ bags, from mobs, and in buckets from reward tracks; there are plenty of sources. The benefit of separating raid masteries from the others would apply to a tiny fraction of players, and only for a brief period of time (relative to the current situation). As an incentive for convincing people to even try raids, it’s really ineffectual and I can’t imagine anyone being swayed except for the most OCD among us.

So the argument, as it always, comes down to a matter of fairness: why should only raiders have access to something that is otherwise available to everyone in Core Tyria? I don’t see anyone saying that’s an unreasonable position, even if they defend the status quo.

But that’s not the only question that ANet has to address. For them, it’s also a question of how much work is it to separate existing masteries from the HoT category — is that effort worth the tiny benefit that people would gain?

If the change was easy to make, I’m betting they would have already done it — if for no other reason, then just to get us to stop arguing about it. It’s a distraction to the larger issues in the game, it’s a blemish on the otherwise success of raids (and even confuses the other discussions about the future of raiding). They don’t need the headache.