Guild Wars 2

I am a level 80 engineer with a mix of exotic and rare items, all of my jewelery is rare crafted and most of my armor is exotic level 75+. With a level 80 exotic weapon.

I have done arah a couple times, CoF and CoE on explorable mode in pick up groups.

My first glaring issue with this game is.

1. The gear is hardly better, yes it looks cool but do I really need to do grind out 180 tokens for something thats marginally better? In most MMO’s I would say yes, but in this one it doesn’t really give you any benefit which I will address soon.

2. The zones are easy and groups ALWAYS pick the easiest options. I seriously haven’t even ran CoE (Which I feel is the easiest one to do of the 75+ zones) doing anything other than the option with diffusing the bombs, protecting the bomb til explosion etc. Same thing with Arah, every chooses the forgotten with the minotaur hunter guy and the mage in on the pedastal.

Why did you even bother giving us an option arenanet? Nobody is going to run the harder options if there is nothing in it for them. Right now its all about grinding as fast as possible to get that gear. Why spend 30 minutes for the same amount of tokens as 10minutes?

My suggestion is that we create a daily reward if a player completes a instance all of the option modes. Otherwise we will not see people doing these dungeons in the other option modes.

3. As I was saying about the gear. IF I can already successfully do these zones with gear I mainly got from crafting, 100% completions and trading post why should I go out and get better gear? Again in most MMO’s I am a very hardcore player, I will go out and get the extra 5% improvement for my character. But in this game I see no reason becuase.

1. If I can already beat the dungeons with my current gear and this is the hardest group content available why bother? The differences in stats vs are not worth doing boring content to grind tokens.

2. There are little ways for my improvement to matter, PVE and WvWvW you think one person having a full set of dungeon exotic gear matters? No, because there are always 30 people in the cursed shore events (level 80 events) and WvWvW it makes a difference in one place, 1v1s or small skirmishes. Guess what? The minute you’re still fighting in the same area back up as arrived and it turns quickly from a small fight where you’re gear advantage matters to a zerg of 10vs10 and so on and so fourth.

Also I read that endgame re-imagined post, about the dragons and so fourth and my point stands.

1 character makes zero difference in defeating those dragons. You could be afk using you’re number 1 skill or actively using all you’re skills. Its still going to die and I am 100% sure that grinding out ruined city of arah for 10 hours didn’t help you kill it since people killed the dragons in world zones before they were 80.

Brings me back to why I realized having healers, tanks, and specific dps classes is important in MMO’s. In instances in EQ2, Rift, WoW you need a tank with gear, you need dps with good gear etc especially when the game is new or when doing hard content for the first time. The whole concept of everyone can heal and do damage and take damage is really fun, but it makes the whole experience feel very casual.

I just wanted to note I really enjoy this game after putting around 170 hours into it. I will continue playing but I can’t help the fact that whatever I feel like I’m doing now that I’m 80 is useless. I have a few pieces of CoF gear and it looks cool, but I don’t feel any stronger, and my character didn’t need it to do this stuff already.

The hardest part about the dungeons in some cases is just avoiding death until the next event pops, bypassing enemies is easy and everyone does it.

Tl/DR We need some sort of gear progression and harder dungeons.

“We need some sort of gear progression”

If I were to respond to this in the language that most readily comes to mind, I would be insta-banned.

In a more polite tone: No, we don’t need any sort of gear progression. This is not a raiding game. This is not a gear treadmill game.

At least the “gear treadmill” in other games gets you somewhere.

Grinding for the exotic gear in this game is like running on a treadmill for two weeks straight and still weighing 300 pounds when you’re done.

And no, I didn’t rush to 80 and blah blah. I currently have a 65 ele and 55 ranger, and I’m taking my time getting to 80. Also I don’t think this game needs gear progression, it just needs SOME sort of progression. “But the entire game is end game yada yada explore the world.” I have been exploring the world for the past 80 levels. Why even have levels if all there is to do at level 80 is exactly what I’ve been doing at level 1? And that right there is the issue IMO.

No, we don’t need some sort of gear progression.
YOU need some sort of gear progression, and you’re playing the wrong game.

The dungeons are fine in difficulty. If you want to play the harder paths, get friends or join a guild that runs dungeons for the challenge.

You aren’t playing it right if you feel there isn’t much ways for your improvements to matter if all you think is gear. Your improvements will matter if you’d focus more on your own playing skills.

Mercucial.6759:

Also I don’t think this game needs gear progression, it just needs SOME sort of progression.

This. The “explorer” people that are against any sort of progression or carrot drive me nuts in these forums, and they’re always so hostile.

Explain why Anet decided to put levels in the game, as well as gear rarity or gear stats that increase with levels, or why traits/skills are tiered/locked. It’s simple, progression and achieving upgrades feels good. Exploring is great and all but so is progression, and having both = Why RPG’s rock. This is why leveling up a char by 100%’ing zones (like I am) will always be more fun than doing so at 80.

The endgame doesn’t necessarily have to have gear progression as the only progression, and I would also prefer to not have that, I think Dungeon Defenders is an excellent reason why not to have it. When it gets to the point that upgrades no longer feel like an actual improvement, it becomes a waste of time, a gimmicky carrot.

I was banking on the gear progression in this game to be “flexibility” in your stats as far as progression goes. As in, hit 80, have generic gear (with top level stats) but it’s very well rounded, and you would be hunting down and working on getting gear/pieces/mods that adjust your stat balance in the way you want to play. Going for crit/cond/vitality, or crit/power/condition (ultra glass), or healing/tough/vitality (still some restrictions of course).

While I like cosmetic grind as a carrot, completely by itself I just don’t think it will cut out. One of the main reasons to get new cosmetic gear/skins is to look cool or how you want while you’re playing (aka going out and killing things and show off), but if there’s no other reason to be out killing things (I don’t mean exploring, but doing DE’s and such) to actually PLAY while in your cool gear, then what’s the point, finish exploring the zones, and sit in town to look pretty? What about the people that get a few of their favorite looks already and don’t really care for more?

I think they just need to look at why having a continuous endgame is appealing. The thing I think I liked about the past MMO endgame progression was that there was always something to improve. Before it ended up becoming easier and easier (talking about WoW here) to get your gear, so they have to constantly pump out new tiers/levels of content/gear it started to become a treadmill.

Basically, even if they do revamp Orr and DE’s to be more fun than it is, it’s good to also have a solid reason to be out there doing them besides just being fun. Doing something you find fun that is ALSO rewarding is very very good. Dynamic events could very well be a way to “progress” say for example if completing a large difficult chain of events could unlock some fun minigames that have unique rewards.

Personally I don’t think Anet wasted so many resources on PvE just to say “sorry no endgame just finish exploring” and be done with it. I trust they will find a way to have meaningful and rewarding continuity in their PvE “Endgame”.

Woops a wall o’ text.

Of course, anytime you mention progression people get fanatic about defending the games integrity of the no gear grind. What they don’t understand is that there are multiple ways to expand the longevity of a character at 80 and make it feel like you’re progressing.

Current state of game – Nothing to do at 80, nothing to progress in. Only option is to do WvWvW with no reward. Sure the PvP is fun and I do it without reward but how long is that going to last? When there is no incentive and or no benefit to doing something, than why do it? Simple answer: eventually you wont.

It was said from the beginning that there is no progress in GW2 as gear is semi relevant. Did you even read some information before buying it?

If the current dungeons, events, WvWvW and PvP don’t offer enough for you, it realy seem to be the wrong game for you. The concept for itself is completly “perfect”. However, the style is very different. This is not a classical MMO. You can easily see that this won’t change. GW1 survived without a long progress and with this simple PvP. GW2 feels like a mix out of an MMO and a shooter. No long progress and you have to like this to like the game.

This game was designed with the idea that gear progression shouldn’t be that importat, it’s not THAT hard to get a crafted set. Dungeons are mostly for the challenge or wanting those sets that looks cool.

This is not EQ2, Rift, WoW, you shouldn’t spend months to get the best kind of gear (statswise), and that’s why i like it.

I agree that the paths thing is really bad, there’s actually a really LITTLE incentive added to it, there’s a daily bonus for each path… but it’s just 10 more medals, if it was something like 50 medals it would be pretty cool.

why do people need additional motives to play the game? play it for its own sake or do something else for a while. don’t expect anet to keep stalling you from cancelling your sub like other games have in the past because that’s not their focus. the idea of this game is that it should be fun to play – period. they’re not going to shove busy-work down your throat to keep you obligated to play.

Why did you even bother giving us an option arenanet? Nobody is going to run the harder options if there is nothing in it for them. Right now its all about grinding as fast as possible to get that gear. Why spend 30 minutes for the same amount of tokens as 10minutes?

Because it’s not the same amount of tokens. You get extra tokens once per day per path you complete. Doing the paths you ignore at least once will give you more than doing one you’ve done before that day.

Mercucial.6759:

Explain why Anet decided to put levels in the game, as well as gear rarity or gear stats that increase with levels, or why traits/skills are tiered/locked. It’s simple, progression and achieving upgrades feels good. Exploring is great and all but so is progression, and having both = Why RPG’s rock. This is why leveling up a char by 100%’ing zones (like I am) will always be more fun than doing so at 80.

Levels aren’t there for just progression reasons.
They’re also tools to set the pacing of a game. Which why you don’t use utilities before level 5, so players get time to get used to weapon skills before diving into utilities. Same goes for weapon-swapping.
Utilities are tiered to prevent overload of choice on players. Having to choose from 30 skills is pretty intimidating to a lot of players. Limiting it to 10 per tier is much more do-able.
Traits are tiered because without tiers everyone would pump in 10 points in all the lines and pick out the best traits in each line.

And “explorers” being “hostile” on these forums might have to do with the fact that we finally have a game that focuses so much more on horizontal progression at endgame, rather than vertically like most games do. There’s like 1000’s of MMO’s with steep vertical progression, can’t we just have 1 game with more horizontal progression?

Milennin.4825:

There’s like 1000’s of MMO’s with steep vertical progression, can’t we just have 1 game with more horizontal progression?

Honestly the term horizontal progression doesn’t even make sense. You’re NOT progressing. Why are you so against giving the people who enjoy working towards something more difficult (and I don’t mean through getting better gear) something to do. GW1 (which was advertised as more of a PvP game than GW2), had a far better end game than GW2, which is sad.

So why is it so bad that people want dungeons that progressively get more challenging, instead of the current mess we have where dungeons just seem randomly thrown together? And why can’t I have raids? Let the gear requirement stay the same, but a 10 man instance in this game seems like it would be amazingly fun. And why can’t I have DEs that actually LEAD TO SOMETHING? All those things could be in the game and you can still run around like akitten harvesting pumpkins and “horizontally progressing.”

The end game for GW2 is PvP and grinding out hundreds of gold for a legendary weapon. If that’s not your thing, move on. Personally I think it could be better, but I’m not paying monthly so I have no issues.

Mercucial.6759:

Honestly the term horizontal progression doesn’t even make sense. You’re NOT progressing. Why are you so against giving the people who enjoy working towards something more difficult (and I don’t mean through getting better gear) something to do. GW1 (which was advertised as more of a PvP game than GW2), had a far better end game than GW2, which is sad.

So why is it so bad that people want dungeons that progressively get more challenging, instead of the current mess we have where dungeons just seem randomly thrown together? And why can’t I have raids? Let the gear requirement stay the same, but a 10 man instance in this game seems like it would be amazingly fun. And why can’t I have DEs that actually LEAD TO SOMETHING? All those things could be in the game and you can still run around like akitten harvesting pumpkins and “horizontally progressing.”

Well I think GW2’s endgame is better than GW1’s which was just playing the same content but against buffed enemies, and which you could basically afk and let your heroes do it for you if you used the right builds.
Or waiting for that PUG that never comes cause everyone only does speed clears in the elite areas.

I don’t understand why dungeons have to become progressively harder? Or how that would make them more fun?
There is no raids, because ArenaNet decided on having a 5-man party would be the best to create balanced challenging content for.
I don’t know what you mean by DE’s having to lead to something? They already do…

To all of you who want to mock those who say there is no end game, no progression or who “can’t speak or you’ll be insta-banned”… be careful what you wish for.

The Arenanet “end-game reimagined” document is a very poor attempt at diverting the growing player dissatisfaction with the game after hitting 80 AND the complete lack of rewards of any worth from running dungeons. And don’t tell me about legendary items, they are a farce, as are the “skill point purchases” required.

GW2 has succeeded wildly on some fronts but has failed utterly in key areas. There’s no risk vs reward, there’s just risk for virtually nothing other than the risk itself. How many times will YOU run the same encounter for nothing of value?

If there’s no end game there’s no game. Players are going to quit this game faster than they did TSW.

The end game IS a mess. Dungeons are a mess and are totally meaningless. I mean what the hell is up with weapons that cost hundreds of dungeon tokens but are not as good as crafted items? What a complete and utter joke and insult to us as players.

Nofe.7269:

The end game for GW2 is PvP and grinding out hundreds of gold for a legendary weapon. If that’s not your thing, move on. Personally I think it could be better, but I’m not paying monthly so I have no issues.

No. Legendary weapons are there to fuel the gem to gold market.

I and many others would MUCH rather have a monthly subscription and real rewards at a reasonable rate rather than the current system that completely favors whoever wants to spend the most cash on then gem store.

Santiago.2147:

To all of you who want to mock those who say there is no end game, no progression or who “can’t speak or you’ll be insta-banned”… be careful what you wish for.

The Arenanet “end-game reimagined” document is a very poor attempt at diverting the growing player dissatisfaction with the game after hitting 80 AND the complete lack of rewards of any worth from running dungeons. And don’t tell me about legendary items, they are a farce, as are the “skill point purchases” required.

GW2 has succeeded wildly on some fronts but has failed utterly in key areas. There’s no risk vs reward, there’s just risk for virtually nothing other than the risk itself. How many times will YOU run the same encounter for nothing of value?

If there’s no end game there’s no game. Players are going to quit this game faster than they did TSW.

The end game IS a mess. Dungeons are a mess and are totally meaningless. I mean what the hell is up with weapons that cost hundreds of dungeon tokens but are not as good as crafted items? What a complete and utter joke and insult to us as players.

Maybe you shouldn’t be just assuming that everyone hates gw2’s endgame like you do. Anet announced how things would work in this game years ago. They had plenty of time to change it if they had gotten a negative feedback but they didn’t. The simple fact is that this is the game and endgame that many of us wanted since forever. Stop trying to turn it into every other WoW clone out there.